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Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by whatsupdoc on 21.05.15 9:23

@BlueBag wrote:snipped

If you think they were at Chaplins you need to provide some evidence for the belief.

I've been following this case since day 1 and all we have had from the McCanns is lies and a mad scramble to make money.

The PJ suspected staging and not an abduction. I think their conclusions were accurate.

I think the UK govt and police were told to follow the hunt for an abductor and basically waste time.

I think the info provided by kikoratton is well worth considering. i.e. I think a substitute may have been used from the Sunday and Madeleine didn't go to the creche even once. His info on the creche register and phone records were very helpful.

I think it is likely that there was no checking all week. The crying may even have been Madelene, who knows?

I think the dogs showed that someone died in 5A and it is most likely to have been Madeleine who died which makes the Fund a fraud. I think donors were misled when they gave money as to what their money was going to be spent on. Searching for Madeleine is not hiring lawyers.

I think the PJ have much more evidence and are keeping it back...a very sensible thing to do. When GA left the PJ, I think a deal was done and that was the end of the investigation as far as the public goes.

I think the MSM have shown their true colours...outshone by Richard D. Hall.

I don't always agree with others but it is wise to listen to all views.

If I'm wrong about some things, is it any wonder when there is so little true evidence about. I don't have to prove anything to anybody but if I can help, I will do.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Rufus T on 21.05.15 11:19

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAOLO_COSTA.htm

Above is the link to the GNR officer statement which mentions a phone call made by RM to the GNR regarding women hearing crying.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by j.rob on 21.05.15 18:59

This case is so frustrating sometimes. Just as you think you are getting a bit closer to understanding what might have happened you reach another blank.

But I will try again.

Just suppose that it is true that the Murats are very close/friendly with Mrs Fenn (and her niece who also gave a statement). And given that they are both part of  what appears to be a close-knit ex-pat scene in Luz then this is perfectly feasible.

Then suppose that this friendship and/or link or allegiance (might have) influenced Mrs Fenn to make a statement to police that was not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 

In the scenario outlined above, what would be achieved by Mrs Fenn claiming that she heard a child who sounded older than 2 years old (and therefore would be likely to be Madeleine as opposed to one of the twins) crying for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday 1st May in apartment 5A? When she didn't actually hear this? Or maybe did hear this, or something like this, but on another night?

It could potentially achieve the following:

1. It could point the finger of suspicion that the McCanns left their children unattended for much longer periods of time than half an hour that week. Certainly on the Tuesday evening. Which would beg the question that the McCanns  could have left their children unattended for periods of over an hour on other evenings too. Effectively calling into question the TM 'checking' system and 'proving' that it was inadequate and it lead to, at the very least,  a distressed Madeleine.

2. In Kate's book she claims that on Wednesday 2nd May she and Gerry went to the enclosed bar area near the Tapas restaurant after dinner. Which meant there was closer to 45 minutes between the last 'check' of the children and Gerry abruptly leaving the bar and returning to the apartment at 11.50pm. Kate claims that this meant that they went back to their apartment a little later than normal. 

Given that Mrs Fenn heard crying until 11.45pm on, allegedly, the previous evening - Tuesday - and it only stopped when she heard the patio doors opening. So she assumed this was the McCann parents returning from their evening out. And given that the 11.45pm  Tuesday return (Mrs Fenn's report) is very close indeed to 11.50pm Wednesday return (Kate's account), then that would question whether it was true, as Kate suggests in her book, that Wednesday night was the only night she and Gerry went out after dinner and returned back late. It would point the finger of suspicion  that the McCanns did this not just on Wednesday (Kate's account) but also Tuesday (Mrs Fenn's account).  It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine. And cast doubt on Kate's version of events. 

3. Mrs Fenn reporting of probably Madeleine crying in apartment 5A  on Tuesday night places Madeleine as alive on Tuesday night. Not alive and well because an hour and a quarter of distressed crying would mean that Madeleine would be very distressed - but still, definitely alive, (even if ill/injured/distressed/abused). 

If you consider the timing of Robert Murat flying out to the Algarve from the UK at the last minute that week.  He booked a flight at midnight on Monday 30th April and arrived early the next morning on Tuesday 1st May (I think). Then the crying incident as reported by Mrs Fenn could have been an attempt to divert from *something* that had happened (to Madeleine) earlier than Tuesday. Which I suppose links with the above. (Maybe Mrs Fenn did hear crying but earlier - on Sat/Sun/Mon?)

4. I'm sure there is a number four but my brain is exploding. This case is just such a mind f***. It drives you crazy.

So - Detective Amaral, Tony Bennett everyone else who has persisted with this. WELL DONE!

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Guest on 21.05.15 19:57

It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine.

Wasn't Tuesday, 1st May the night when the parents slept in separate rooms (for the first time ever in their marriage, according to Kate).

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Richard IV on 21.05.15 21:16

@Rufus T wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAOLO_COSTA.htm

Above is the link to the GNR officer statement which mentions a phone call made by RM to the GNR regarding women hearing crying.
Thanks for that.
He doesn`t say when RM phoned him 
When the foreign woman phoned RM 
What day and time the foreign woman heard the crying.

Just read through Carole-Anne Tranmer`s statement again - didn`t realise she knew the royal family, having worked for them at Windsor Castle.

eta - LIR - it was the Wednesday night that KM slept in the kids room because she was miffed with GM for just walking off from her in the Tapas Bar.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id242.html

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Guest on 21.05.15 21:24

Thank you.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by XTC on 21.05.15 22:31

@Rufus T wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAOLO_COSTA.htm

Above is the link to the GNR officer statement which mentions a phone call made by RM to the GNR regarding women hearing crying.
Thanks for that link.

I've never seen that before.

Does anyone remember the media article which said that a couple witnessed another couple entering an apartment to
comfort a crying child and that OG 'tecs were going to interview the witnessing couple to try and find out who the other couple were?

Or did I dream it?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Doug D on 21.05.15 22:41

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326977/Did-Madeleine-McCann-abductor-stay-resort-Investigators-probe-new-leads-amid-claims-couple-soothed-crying-year-old-disappeared.html

19th May 2013

'Two witnesses said they saw a middle-aged couple enter the apartment to comfort Madeleine, who was crying, The Sunday Express has reported. 
The newspaper quoted a source as saying: 'Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.' 
Detectives are now believed to be trying to identify the couple as part of an ongoing review into the case - codenamed Operation Grange.'

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by j.rob on 22.05.15 14:31

Ladyinred wrote:It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine.

Wasn't Tuesday, 1st May the night when the parents slept in separate rooms (for the first time ever in their marriage, according to Kate).

According to Kate in her book it was Wednesday night when they slept in separate rooms. Kate says she slept in the children's room that night because Gerry abruptly left the bar.

".......at that moment my peaceful, slumbering babies were more attractive room-mates than my snoring husband."

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by j.rob on 22.05.15 16:48

@Doug D wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326977/Did-Madeleine-McCann-abductor-stay-resort-Investigators-probe-new-leads-amid-claims-couple-soothed-crying-year-old-disappeared.html

19th May 2013

'Two witnesses said they saw a middle-aged couple enter the apartment to comfort Madeleine, who was crying, The Sunday Express has reported. 
The newspaper quoted a source as saying: 'Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.' 
Detectives are now believed to be trying to identify the couple as part of an ongoing review into the case - codenamed Operation Grange.'


I wonder if there is any truth in this? 

This was apparently on Wednesday evening. Which of course is the evening that Kate alleges Madeleine and Sean woke up and cried. And Madeleine allegedly asked Kate and Gerry in the morning: "Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?"

Inexplicably, given that Kate has admitted that they left the children unattended the previous evening checking only once every 30 minutes and once leaving them for 45 MINUTES, Kate claims that she and Gerry were puzzled by this question.

I mean WTF? What planet are they on? They leave their children without any adult supervision and then are surprised when their children wake up and are distressed.

Kate's motives in imparting this almost definitely false information are, imo:  

1. Kate wants to suggest that the intruder did a dummy run on Wednesday night and disturbed the children.
2. Kate wants Madeleine to be alive, well and happy on Thursday morning. When she wasn't.
3. Kate wants to downplay a crying incident that Madeleine had had (earlier) that week. Minimizing its significance when it was, in fact, something that had deeply distressed Madeleine.

If the 'intruder' story is not true then could it be a deliberate attempt by MSM to place Madeleine as alive on Wednesday evening? Or is it to give credence to the McCann's checking story? Or to fire a warning shot to the McCanns perhaps?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 22.05.15 22:20

@j.rob wrote:This case is so frustrating sometimes. Just as you think you are getting a bit closer to understanding what might have happened you reach another blank.

But I will try again.

Just suppose that it is true that the Murats are very close/friendly with Mrs Fenn (and her niece who also gave a statement). And given that they are both part of  what appears to be a close-knit ex-pat scene in Luz then this is perfectly feasible.

Then suppose that this friendship and/or link or allegiance (might have) influenced Mrs Fenn to make a statement to police that was not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 

In the scenario outlined above, what would be achieved by Mrs Fenn claiming that she heard a child who sounded older than 2 years old (and therefore would be likely to be Madeleine as opposed to one of the twins) crying for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday 1st May in apartment 5A? When she didn't actually hear this? Or maybe did hear this, or something like this, but on another night?

It could potentially achieve the following:

1. It could point the finger of suspicion that the McCanns left their children unattended for much longer periods of time than half an hour that week. Certainly on the Tuesday evening. Which would beg the question that the McCanns  could have left their children unattended for periods of over an hour on other evenings too. Effectively calling into question the TM 'checking' system and 'proving' that it was inadequate and it lead to, at the very least,  a distressed Madeleine.

2. In Kate's book she claims that on Wednesday 2nd May she and Gerry went to the enclosed bar area near the Tapas restaurant after dinner. Which meant there was closer to 45 minutes between the last 'check' of the children and Gerry abruptly leaving the bar and returning to the apartment at 11.50pm. Kate claims that this meant that they went back to their apartment a little later than normal. 

Given that Mrs Fenn heard crying until 11.45pm on, allegedly, the previous evening - Tuesday - and it only stopped when she heard the patio doors opening. So she assumed this was the McCann parents returning from their evening out. And given that the 11.45pm  Tuesday return (Mrs Fenn's report) is very close indeed to 11.50pm Wednesday return (Kate's account), then that would question whether it was true, as Kate suggests in her book, that Wednesday night was the only night she and Gerry went out after dinner and returned back late. It would point the finger of suspicion  that the McCanns did this not just on Wednesday (Kate's account) but also Tuesday (Mrs Fenn's account).  It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine. And cast doubt on Kate's version of events. 

3. Mrs Fenn reporting of probably Madeleine crying in apartment 5A  on Tuesday night places Madeleine as alive on Tuesday night. Not alive and well because an hour and a quarter of distressed crying would mean that Madeleine would be very distressed - but still, definitely alive, (even if ill/injured/distressed/abused). 

If you consider the timing of Robert Murat flying out to the Algarve from the UK at the last minute that week.  He booked a flight at midnight on Monday 30th April and arrived early the next morning on Tuesday 1st May (I think). Then the crying incident as reported by Mrs Fenn could have been an attempt to divert from *something* that had happened (to Madeleine) earlier than Tuesday. Which I suppose links with the above. (Maybe Mrs Fenn did hear crying but earlier - on Sat/Sun/Mon?)

4. I'm sure there is a number four but my brain is exploding. This case is just such a mind f***. It drives you crazy.

So - Detective Amaral, Tony Bennett everyone else who has persisted with this. WELL DONE!
I'm inclined to agree with the broad outline of your thoughts (especially the last bit) but I'm still not convinced that all the children were left alone every night, simply because there was no logical reason for them to be left unattended let alone any proof.  What about Dianne Webster, would she a grandmother, agree to leave the Payne children alone when she could have stayed with them in the apartment?  She was hardly a member of the 30 somethings was she. 

The trouble has always been the total lack of independent witnesses to verify anything spewed forth by the group, it's just their word and their word alone.  I believe also that was the PJs major downfall - they didn't have anything concrete to work on and the group knew that only too well and used it to their advantage.

That aside, I always thought that Kate's tantrum was a result of the fitness instructor with the big boobies.  I can just imagine Gerry just being Ger, all over the unsuspecting vivacious young lady like a festering rash - I'm sure that most definitely would not please princess Kate but then, even the day she was invited to the table is the subject of dispute, at least according to the McCanns version of events.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 22.05.15 22:31

@j.rob wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine.

Wasn't Tuesday, 1st May the night when the parents slept in separate rooms (for the first time ever in their marriage, according to Kate).

According to Kate in her book it was Wednesday night when they slept in separate rooms. Kate says she slept in the children's room that night because Gerry abruptly left the bar.

".......at that moment my peaceful, slumbering babies were more attractive room-mates than my snoring husband."
Don't forget the unexplained dry stain on Madeleine's top that Kate claims to have washed and dried during a period of time when she also claims to have been away from the apartment.  I think this was on Thursday 3rd, only hours away from their anticipated departure back to blighty.  According to Kate, Madeleine had a number of daytime and nighttime outfits (none of which matched the description of the angels given by David Payne) so it beats me why she decided to hand wash the one with the stain so close to leaving the resort.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by sharonl on 22.05.15 22:35

@Verdi wrote:
@j.rob wrote:This case is so frustrating sometimes. Just as you think you are getting a bit closer to understanding what might have happened you reach another blank.

But I will try again.

Just suppose that it is true that the Murats are very close/friendly with Mrs Fenn (and her niece who also gave a statement). And given that they are both part of  what appears to be a close-knit ex-pat scene in Luz then this is perfectly feasible.

Then suppose that this friendship and/or link or allegiance (might have) influenced Mrs Fenn to make a statement to police that was not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 

In the scenario outlined above, what would be achieved by Mrs Fenn claiming that she heard a child who sounded older than 2 years old (and therefore would be likely to be Madeleine as opposed to one of the twins) crying for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday 1st May in apartment 5A? When she didn't actually hear this? Or maybe did hear this, or something like this, but on another night?

It could potentially achieve the following:

1. It could point the finger of suspicion that the McCanns left their children unattended for much longer periods of time than half an hour that week. Certainly on the Tuesday evening. Which would beg the question that the McCanns  could have left their children unattended for periods of over an hour on other evenings too. Effectively calling into question the TM 'checking' system and 'proving' that it was inadequate and it lead to, at the very least,  a distressed Madeleine.

2. In Kate's book she claims that on Wednesday 2nd May she and Gerry went to the enclosed bar area near the Tapas restaurant after dinner. Which meant there was closer to 45 minutes between the last 'check' of the children and Gerry abruptly leaving the bar and returning to the apartment at 11.50pm. Kate claims that this meant that they went back to their apartment a little later than normal. 

Given that Mrs Fenn heard crying until 11.45pm on, allegedly, the previous evening - Tuesday - and it only stopped when she heard the patio doors opening. So she assumed this was the McCann parents returning from their evening out. And given that the 11.45pm  Tuesday return (Mrs Fenn's report) is very close indeed to 11.50pm Wednesday return (Kate's account), then that would question whether it was true, as Kate suggests in her book, that Wednesday night was the only night she and Gerry went out after dinner and returned back late. It would point the finger of suspicion  that the McCanns did this not just on Wednesday (Kate's account) but also Tuesday (Mrs Fenn's account).  It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine. And cast doubt on Kate's version of events. 

3. Mrs Fenn reporting of probably Madeleine crying in apartment 5A  on Tuesday night places Madeleine as alive on Tuesday night. Not alive and well because an hour and a quarter of distressed crying would mean that Madeleine would be very distressed - but still, definitely alive, (even if ill/injured/distressed/abused). 

If you consider the timing of Robert Murat flying out to the Algarve from the UK at the last minute that week.  He booked a flight at midnight on Monday 30th April and arrived early the next morning on Tuesday 1st May (I think). Then the crying incident as reported by Mrs Fenn could have been an attempt to divert from *something* that had happened (to Madeleine) earlier than Tuesday. Which I suppose links with the above. (Maybe Mrs Fenn did hear crying but earlier - on Sat/Sun/Mon?)

4. I'm sure there is a number four but my brain is exploding. This case is just such a mind f***. It drives you crazy.

So - Detective Amaral, Tony Bennett everyone else who has persisted with this. WELL DONE!
I'm inclined to agree with the broad outline of your thoughts (especially the last bit) but I'm still not convinced that all the children were left alone every night, simply because there was no logical reason for them to be left unattended let alone any proof.  What about Dianne Webster, would she a grandmother, agree to leave the Payne children alone when she could have stayed with them in the apartment?  She was hardly a member of the 30 somethings was she. 

The trouble has always been the total lack of independent witnesses to verify anything spewed forth by the group, it's just their word and their word alone.  I believe also that was the PJs major downfall - they didn't have anything concrete to work on and the group knew that only too well and used it to their advantage.

That aside, I always thought that Kate's tantrum was a result of the fitness instructor with the big boobies.  I can just imagine Gerry just being Ger, all over the unsuspecting vivacious young lady like a festering rash - I'm sure that most definitely would not please princess Kate but then, even the day she was invited to the table is the subject of dispute, at least according to the McCanns version of events.

The PJ did suggest that all the children slept in one apartment, and don't forget that at least one person was missing from the Tapas group each night for various reasons, mostly upset tums.  That may explain the lack of evidence supporting the presence of children in the 5a.

There was also a squabble (so they claim) between K & G that lead to her sleeping in the other room.  When and why, did she thump the walls and kick the bed in?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 22.05.15 22:49

@sharonl wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@j.rob wrote:This case is so frustrating sometimes. Just as you think you are getting a bit closer to understanding what might have happened you reach another blank.

But I will try again.

Just suppose that it is true that the Murats are very close/friendly with Mrs Fenn (and her niece who also gave a statement). And given that they are both part of  what appears to be a close-knit ex-pat scene in Luz then this is perfectly feasible.

Then suppose that this friendship and/or link or allegiance (might have) influenced Mrs Fenn to make a statement to police that was not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 

In the scenario outlined above, what would be achieved by Mrs Fenn claiming that she heard a child who sounded older than 2 years old (and therefore would be likely to be Madeleine as opposed to one of the twins) crying for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday 1st May in apartment 5A? When she didn't actually hear this? Or maybe did hear this, or something like this, but on another night?

It could potentially achieve the following:

1. It could point the finger of suspicion that the McCanns left their children unattended for much longer periods of time than half an hour that week. Certainly on the Tuesday evening. Which would beg the question that the McCanns  could have left their children unattended for periods of over an hour on other evenings too. Effectively calling into question the TM 'checking' system and 'proving' that it was inadequate and it lead to, at the very least,  a distressed Madeleine.

2. In Kate's book she claims that on Wednesday 2nd May she and Gerry went to the enclosed bar area near the Tapas restaurant after dinner. Which meant there was closer to 45 minutes between the last 'check' of the children and Gerry abruptly leaving the bar and returning to the apartment at 11.50pm. Kate claims that this meant that they went back to their apartment a little later than normal. 

Given that Mrs Fenn heard crying until 11.45pm on, allegedly, the previous evening - Tuesday - and it only stopped when she heard the patio doors opening. So she assumed this was the McCann parents returning from their evening out. And given that the 11.45pm  Tuesday return (Mrs Fenn's report) is very close indeed to 11.50pm Wednesday return (Kate's account), then that would question whether it was true, as Kate suggests in her book, that Wednesday night was the only night she and Gerry went out after dinner and returned back late. It would point the finger of suspicion  that the McCanns did this not just on Wednesday (Kate's account) but also Tuesday (Mrs Fenn's account).  It could also, of course, serve to highlight Tuesday night as a significant night that week in terms of what happened to Madeleine. And cast doubt on Kate's version of events. 

3. Mrs Fenn reporting of probably Madeleine crying in apartment 5A  on Tuesday night places Madeleine as alive on Tuesday night. Not alive and well because an hour and a quarter of distressed crying would mean that Madeleine would be very distressed - but still, definitely alive, (even if ill/injured/distressed/abused). 

If you consider the timing of Robert Murat flying out to the Algarve from the UK at the last minute that week.  He booked a flight at midnight on Monday 30th April and arrived early the next morning on Tuesday 1st May (I think). Then the crying incident as reported by Mrs Fenn could have been an attempt to divert from *something* that had happened (to Madeleine) earlier than Tuesday. Which I suppose links with the above. (Maybe Mrs Fenn did hear crying but earlier - on Sat/Sun/Mon?)

4. I'm sure there is a number four but my brain is exploding. This case is just such a mind f***. It drives you crazy.

So - Detective Amaral, Tony Bennett everyone else who has persisted with this. WELL DONE!
I'm inclined to agree with the broad outline of your thoughts (especially the last bit) but I'm still not convinced that all the children were left alone every night, simply because there was no logical reason for them to be left unattended let alone any proof.  What about Dianne Webster, would she a grandmother, agree to leave the Payne children alone when she could have stayed with them in the apartment?  She was hardly a member of the 30 somethings was she. 

The trouble has always been the total lack of independent witnesses to verify anything spewed forth by the group, it's just their word and their word alone.  I believe also that was the PJs major downfall - they didn't have anything concrete to work on and the group knew that only too well and used it to their advantage.

That aside, I always thought that Kate's tantrum was a result of the fitness instructor with the big boobies.  I can just imagine Gerry just being Ger, all over the unsuspecting vivacious young lady like a festering rash - I'm sure that most definitely would not please princess Kate but then, even the day she was invited to the table is the subject of dispute, at least according to the McCanns version of events.

The PJ did suggest that all the children slept in one apartment, and don't forget that at least one person was missing from the Tapas group each night for various reasons, mostly upset tums.  That may explain the lack of evidence supporting the presence of children in the 5a.

There was also a squabble (so they claim) between K & G that lead to her sleeping in the other room.  When and why, did she thump the walls and kick the bed in?
Yes indeed, thanks for the reminder and talking of the lack of evidence to support the presence of children in 5a, the early photographs taken of 5a show no indication of children occupying the apartment.  No toys, no clothes thrown about, no sticky buns or soft drinks bottles, no sign of chaos one would expect with children around.

Unless of course the parents and their friends had a quick clean up but why would that be necessary, unless they had something to hide?

As for her thumping walls and demolishing beds, it must have been one hell of a tantrum.  Normally a plate of spaghetti chucked in the general direction of the foe does the trick - unless of course the other version is the truth i.e. her violently attacking the veranda railings or maybe Gerry was restraining her from violently attacking him ???

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by joyce1938 on 23.05.15 9:20

Verdi, I seems the kids spent very little time in the apartment what with going to crèche a lot , playing outside ,so bathing and a small time before bed ,would leave small time to make a big mess,which might take 15 mins to clear up . It just seems we have been through all these scenes before ,and still we cant all see the same thing ,its not surprising  really is it. I just wonder if this is just not so complicated as we have thought it to be ,looking back ,nothing seems to get settled ? good to see so many interested folk here  ,all the same . The couple said to have gone in to comfort the child ,we seem to only hear of now and then ,yes same old really ,WE ASK WAS THAT TRUE ?AND WHO WERE THEY?joyce1938

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by sallypelt on 23.05.15 9:41

What puzzles me with the children being put in a crèche every day for hours at a time , is, why did they take the children with them if they were going to be away from their parents for most of the holiday? Was it a shield for other activities by the adults? Something stinks to high heaven about this whole affair, and it's not just the smell of death.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by mysterion on 23.05.15 9:59

It had none of the ingredients of a family holiday as I have experienced and witnessed. Would seem strangeto return to the UK with very little to show the grandparents of the children`s experiences. What would the grandparents have thought?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by whatsupdoc on 23.05.15 10:12

Agreed sallypelt and mysterion.

I and many others have said the holiday was nothing like their family holidays where they spend lots of time with their children going places, doing things together and taking lots of pictures.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by j.rob on 23.05.15 20:24

The PJ did suggest that all the children slept in one apartment, and don't forget that at least one person was missing from the Tapas group each night for various reasons, mostly upset tums.  That may explain the lack of evidence supporting the presence of children in the 5a.

There was also a squabble (so they claim) between K & G that lead to her sleeping in the other room.  When and why, did she thump the walls and kick the bed in?


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With regard to the PJ saying that all the children slept in one apartment. That of course is perfectly possible and they will have reasons for saying and believing this. But why did Detective Amaral in that recent interview accuse the McCanns of 'abandoning' their children leaving them to face so many dangers? That would suggest that the McCann children were not in an apartment with all the other children being looked after by one of the Tapas adults each night, say. There has to be a reason why he claims the McCann's 'abandoned' their children.


As to when and why Kate thumped the walls and whatever else leaving those huge bruises on her wrists which can clearly be seen on photos taken (I think) the day after the 'abduction' - eg: Friday 4th May. Well Kate claims in her book that she banged her hands and wrists on the Thursday evening after finding Madeleine missing but surely those bruises would have taken longer to develop than one day. They look like bruises that were sustained a few days previously - ie: earlier that fateful week. 

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by j.rob on 23.05.15 20:31

That aside, I always thought that Kate's tantrum was a result of the fitness instructor with the big boobies.  I can just imagine Gerry just being Ger, all over the unsuspecting vivacious young lady like a festering rash - I'm sure that most definitely would not please princess Kate but then, even the day she was invited to the table is the subject of dispute, at least according to the McCanns version of events.


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I too have often suspected that there was an almighty row that week partly based on Gerry's wandering eye. He clearly (if the airport bus video is anything to go by) was not relishing the thought of a week's family holiday with his wife and three children.


But it's more than that, imo. Maybe fitness instructor was the 'final straw'. But unfortunately I do believe that the Gasper statements should not be completely ignored. And may also lie behind Kate's uncontrollable outburst.


Ideas, as always. 

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 23.05.15 21:50

@joyce1938 wrote:Verdi, I seems the kids spent very little time in the apartment what with going to crèche a lot , playing outside ,so bathing and a small time before bed ,would leave small time to make a big mess,which might take 15 mins to clear up . It just seems we have been through all these scenes before ,and still we cant all see the same thing ,its not surprising  really is it. I just wonder if this is just not so complicated as we have thought it to be ,looking back ,nothing seems to get settled ? good to see so many interested folk here  ,all the same . The couple said to have gone in to comfort the child ,we seem to only hear of now and then ,yes same old really ,WE ASK WAS THAT TRUE ?AND WHO WERE THEY?joyce1938
I take your point, I know it's all been said a million times before but sometimes a comment here and there triggers off thoughts that lead to further reiteration.  I also understand that some people prefer not to keep going over old ground, however on occasions I (for one) benefit because there are issues that are new to me or reminders of things I may have forgotten.

As an aside, I've never considered the case to be complicated per se.  In my opinion the complications have been created by the McCanns and their monster machine, if Dr Amaral had been allowed to continue the investigation I have little doubt it would have been solved during the summer of 2007.  Alas that was halted, now I don't believe the case will ever be solved.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 23.05.15 22:03

@j.rob wrote:That aside, I always thought that Kate's tantrum was a result of the fitness instructor with the big boobies.  I can just imagine Gerry just being Ger, all over the unsuspecting vivacious young lady like a festering rash - I'm sure that most definitely would not please princess Kate but then, even the day she was invited to the table is the subject of dispute, at least according to the McCanns version of events.


------


I too have often suspected that there was an almighty row that week partly based on Gerry's wandering eye. He clearly (if the airport bus video is anything to go by) was not relishing the thought of a week's family holiday with his wife and three children.


But it's more than that, imo. Maybe fitness instructor was the 'final straw'. But unfortunately I do believe that the Gasper statements should not be completely ignored. And may also lie behind Kate's uncontrollable outburst.


Ideas, as always. 
Oh but I agree with you 100%, I only mentioned the fitness instructor as a one off in relation to Kate allegedly sleeping in the kids room.  The inference drawn by the Gasper statements, in my opinion, can be the only logical explanation for their behaviour and the degree of protection and support they have enjoyed.

Something that's forever mystified me - why did this mixed group of nine adults living in different parts of the UK, go to such pains to get together, kids and all, for just one weeks holiday?  Seems a heck of a lot of trouble, especially as they didn't appear to spend much time together as a group outside of an hour or so of an evening at the Tapas boozer.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by Verdi on 23.05.15 22:25

@j.rob wrote:The PJ did suggest that all the children slept in one apartment, and don't forget that at least one person was missing from the Tapas group each night for various reasons, mostly upset tums.  That may explain the lack of evidence supporting the presence of children in the 5a.

There was also a squabble (so they claim) between K & G that lead to her sleeping in the other room.  When and why, did she thump the walls and kick the bed in?


-------


With regard to the PJ saying that all the children slept in one apartment. That of course is perfectly possible and they will have reasons for saying and believing this. But why did Detective Amaral in that recent interview accuse the McCanns of 'abandoning' their children leaving them to face so many dangers? That would suggest that the McCann children were not in an apartment with all the other children being looked after by one of the Tapas adults each night, say. There has to be a reason why he claims the McCann's 'abandoned' their children.


As to when and why Kate thumped the walls and whatever else leaving those huge bruises on her wrists which can clearly be seen on photos taken (I think) the day after the 'abduction' - eg: Friday 4th May. Well Kate claims in her book that she banged her hands and wrists on the Thursday evening after finding Madeleine missing but surely those bruises would have taken longer to develop than one day. They look like bruises that were sustained a few days previously - ie: earlier that fateful week. 
Apparently Warners offered crèche facilities (dining out service) in the vicinity of the main reception area, operational between 7.30 pm and 11.30pm.  Also available was a babysitting service undertaken within the guests apartment between 7.30pm and 1.00 am.  Iirc, it was said by the group that Warners provided a listening service but they opted for their own version.

According to David Payne's convoluted rogatory interview, he knew the state of play at the Ocean Club in regards to nocturnal child care, he packed a high tech baby monitor (apparently), why I ask didn't he suggest to the rest of the group that they also pack a listening device?

I can see no excuse or logical reason why they would all leave their children unattended every night.

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by BlueBag on 23.05.15 22:56

@Verdi wrote:
According to David Payne's convoluted rogatory interview, he knew the state of play at the Ocean Club in regards to nocturnal child care, he packed a high tech baby monitor (apparently), why I ask didn't he suggest to the rest of the group that they also pack a listening device?

I can see no excuse or logical reason why they would all leave their children unattended every night.
So....

How did David Payne know he could book the Tapas Bar for meals every night before he got there?

How did he know their meals would be in monitor range?

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Re: Crying incident, was it taken seriously?

Post by joyce1938 on 23.05.15 23:03

Verdi, thanks for taking time to reply . I understand what you mean ,and yes so many things to look at . Trouble is that so many ideas of this and that occurred, I think some could be questioned if they are relevant or not ,that's where I find complications . We all would like an end to this ,but as you feel too ,I also think ,we shall never know ..sad really ,we had hope at the start,but there it is need a body to bring it all to an end .. yes we would all just love to find the child alive and well, we wish . joyce1938

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