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Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

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Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Rosemary on 22.10.11 17:57

Hi,

This my first post although I have been following this site for a while now.

One thing that has been nagging at the back of my mind is that could Madeleine have accidentally taken any tablets? Gerry states that they took with them Calpol, Nurofen for fever and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems and an antihistamine Terfenadine. He stated that he didn't give any of these medicines or any others to the children whilst on holiday in Portugal. What is puzzling me is that Terfenadine is a withdrawn drug and has been for some while. I have a Mimms dated February 2005 and it certainly is not listed in there then. So it was a withdrawn drug prior to their holiday. The reason being that the side effects can cause cardiac problems and fitting. Why would Gerry Mccann take this drug with him knowing it's potential side effects especially being a cardiologist?

Kate states that she had a shower the night Madeleine disappeared before Gerry came back from tennis. She must have left the three toddlers alone whilst doing so and as all parents know you only need take your eyes off a child for a second and they can be into mischief.

Anyway, just a thought that has been bugging me.

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Terfenadine?

Post by tigger on 22.10.11 18:20

But why would Gerry be so stupid as to admit to having this drug with him? I am not sure, but I think all the medicines disappeared from the flat as well.

As far as the children taking pills by themselves is concerned, I don't think so. They don't taste nice, so after the first one, they'd not be likely to carry on. Even then there would be evidence - the bag opened, child feeling sick. Inducing vomiting straight away would clear the stomach quickly.
Unless they tasted like smarties, I don't think that happened.
I also think the recently aired theory of Kate injecting Maddie, injection not taking hold quickly and Gerry injecting her again, not knowing it had already been done. That is easily one of the worst theories ever since it explains nothing before or after the event.

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Terfenadine

Post by Rosemary on 22.10.11 18:33

The reason it made me think of this is when I was a child friends of my parents had a son the same age as myself. He also had a younger sister. His parents went out for a drink after both children were asleep one night and the little boy fed some of his parents' tablets to his sister and unfortunately she died as a result.

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Re- Could Madeleine have Accidently Taken Tablets.

Post by Jane phips on 22.10.11 18:38

Hi Rose.

Its a very good point you have there, I supose could Madeleine could have taken tablets?

I remember reading a case where a little boy had been told off by his mum and sent to bed (think he must have been about 6/7 yrs old) his mother found him dead a few hours later, he had thought to spite her and make himself sick and never realized the full conequences.

Kate did say Madeleine looked pale and wanted to be carried back to the apartment, perhaps she was'nt well and Kate did find a brown stain on Madeleine's PJ's and said she had washed them, It looked like somone had tried to give her tea she said in her book and thats why Madeleine had her short sleeve PJ's on, Kate mentioned she thought she would be cold in them.

However I don't think Madeleine could have been capable of administering seditavies to the twins without making a hash, of things, poor little darling and they (the twins) were alledgedly suspected of having been sedated.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 22.10.11 18:42

@Rosemary wrote:Hi,

This my first post although I have been following this site for a while now.

One thing that has been nagging at the back of my mind is that could Madeleine have accidentally taken any tablets? Gerry states that they took with them Calpol, Nurofen for fever and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems and an antihistamine Terfenadine. He stated that he didn't give any of these medicines or any others to the children whilst on holiday in Portugal. What is puzzling me is that Terfenadine is a withdrawn drug and has been for some while. I have a Mimms dated February 2005 and it certainly is not listed in there then. So it was a withdrawn drug prior to their holiday. The reason being that the side effects can cause cardiac problems and fitting. Why would Gerry Mccann take this drug with him knowing it's potential side effects especially being a cardiologist?

Kate states that she had a shower the night Madeleine disappeared before Gerry came back from tennis. She must have left the three toddlers alone whilst doing so and as all parents know you only need take your eyes off a child for a second and they can be into mischief.

Anyway, just a thought that has been bugging me.

Hi Rosemary & Welcome, that's an interesting post on Terfenadine. It seems to have been withdrawn in the US in 1997 and Canada in 1999. You would wonder if a doctor might have been aware that there were issues with the drug beforehand.

I have always wondered why Kate to leave 3 toddlers alone to have a quick shower. You're right, it makes no sense, especially in a strange apartment.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Nina on 22.10.11 18:46

@Rosemary wrote:Hi,

This my first post although I have been following this site for a while now.

One thing that has been nagging at the back of my mind is that could Madeleine have accidentally taken any tablets? Gerry states that they took with them Calpol, Nurofen for fever and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems and an antihistamine Terfenadine. He stated that he didn't give any of these medicines or any others to the children whilst on holiday in Portugal. What is puzzling me is that Terfenadine is a withdrawn drug and has been for some while. I have a Mimms dated February 2005 and it certainly is not listed in there then. So it was a withdrawn drug prior to their holiday. The reason being that the side effects can cause cardiac problems and fitting. Why would Gerry Mccann take this drug with him knowing it's potential side effects especially being a cardiologist?

Kate states that she had a shower the night Madeleine disappeared before Gerry came back from tennis. She must have left the three toddlers alone whilst doing so and as all parents know you only need take your eyes off a child for a second and they can be into mischief.

Anyway, just a thought that has been bugging me.



Hello Rosemary and welcome. A Mimms eh, many years since I had one of those. Indeed Gerry would have known, or certainly should have, that Terfenadine had been withdrawn so he either didn't know and is not up to date or didn't bother for what ever reason he may have had.

I have often wondered about the remains of the Newzealand wine in the fridge, unless they slugged the lot, and didn't leave any. A waking child shouting for a drink, as they do, and no one to answer, would know where the juice was kept. In the fridge on the shelf where other bottles are kept.

And the drugs you mention there are all for minor conditions, not recreational drugs that they may have had, and a waking child having a meander about could find, well just about anything.

However that is supposing the children were alone.

And Tigger I agree with you re tablets tasting nasty but sadly children do take them. Re the injection route of admistrating drugs to children. I agree that is a no no, too much risk of infection and bruising. By far the best method in small children is per rectum.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Invinoveritas on 22.10.11 18:47

@tigger wrote:But why would Gerry be so stupid as to admit to having this drug with him? I am not sure, but I think all the medicines disappeared from the flat as well.

As far as the children taking pills by themselves is concerned, I don't think so. They don't taste nice, so after the first one, they'd not be likely to carry on. Even then there would be evidence - the bag opened, child feeling sick. Inducing vomiting straight away would clear the stomach quickly.
Unless they tasted like smarties, I don't think that happened.
I also think the recently aired theory of Kate injecting Maddie, injection not taking hold quickly and Gerry injecting her again, not knowing it had already been done. That is easily one of the worst theories ever since it explains nothing before or after the event.

Quite, tigger, there are articles of various medicines having been found in the appartment and also that one of the grandparents has confirmed that G&M used Calpol to sedate their children (I will look this up if there are queries), the rest is absolute rubbish and I wouldn´t be surprised if it had been forwarded by "pro-Mccanns to discredit`decent sites

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Terfenadine

Post by Rosemary on 22.10.11 20:15

Reply to invinoveritas - I am definitely not pro Mccann - in fact right from the beginning I have had a bad feeling about these two parents and I am not trying to discredit decent sites! I have no idea what happened to Madeleine, but one possible scenario could be that she swallowed some Terfenadine and reacted badly. As I said, it was just a thought. I definitely feel whatever happened, the Mccanns are not telling the truth and their behaviour has been very strange from the start.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Miraflores on 22.10.11 21:06

@Rosemary wrote:Reply to invinoveritas - I am definitely not pro Mccann - in fact right from the beginning I have had a bad feeling about these two parents and I am not trying to discredit decent sites! I have no idea what happened to Madeleine, but one possible scenario could be that she swallowed some Terfenadine and reacted badly. As I said, it was just a thought. I definitely feel whatever happened, the Mccanns are not telling the truth and their behaviour has been very strange from the start.

This would certainly help to explain why a death had to be covered up. In addition, isn't Calpol no longer approved for children under 6? I don't know when this changed though.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Invinoveritas on 22.10.11 21:20

@Rosemary wrote:Reply to invinoveritas - I am definitely not pro Mccann - in fact right from the beginning I have had a bad feeling about these two parents and I am not trying to discredit decent sites! I have no idea what happened to Madeleine, but one possible scenario could be that she swallowed some Terfenadine and reacted badly. As I said, it was just a thought. I definitely feel whatever happened, the Mccanns are not telling the truth and their behaviour has been very strange from the start.

I have absolutely no problem with that you say and I am very open to suggestions as to how and why Madeleine was basically whooshed on the 2nd or 3rd ,that the mccanns´have a problem with recollecting what happened in the days up to the demise of Madeleine speaks for itself, the fact that the parents were uncooperative in delivering hair from the twins to see whether they had consumed or had been adminstered drugs such as Calpol speaks for itself, I rubbish the thought that Madeleine wandered off into the bathroom/parents´bedroom and swallowed pills/tabletts that she found there

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by mexx on 23.10.11 6:01

Pediatric medicines are in syrup form or supositories because you can't get little children to swallow tablets. It is often hard enough to get them to swallow the syrups even though they are full of sugar and artificial flavours. So I find it hard to imagine that a child would willfully swallow foul tasting tablets.

I don't know about the official age limit for Calpol but I do know that in certain cases pediatricians will prescribe medicines to children under the recommended age if others don't work for them or are inappropriate due to an existing condition. I'm not defending or attacking anyone with this, just stating a fact. My daughter has been given medicines which were officially designated for older children, for valid reasons.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 8:57

Rosemary is not a genuine poster, we need to stop feeding these people after dark.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 23.10.11 9:08

by Stella on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:57 amRosemary is not a genuine poster, we need to stop feeding these people after dark.

Hi Stella, I must be slow on the uptake or it's just too early for me...but how is that so? Shocked

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 9:09

Alarm bells started for me with Rosemary as soon as she mentioned the story of children left alone and one fed the other tablets. May I ask Stella if she is the same person as any of the other trolls we've had lately?

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 23.10.11 9:12

I did actually think that sounded a bit odd as well (maybe am not that dense after all ).

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Miraflores on 23.10.11 9:12

Jean wrote:Alarm bells started for me with Rosemary as soon as she mentioned the story of children left alone and one fed the other tablets. May I ask Stella if she is the same person as any of the other trolls we've had lately?

However, there must be a perceived danger that small children may swallow tablets not intended for them, or else why would we have these child proof lids?

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 9:33

It's like going into your garden and being able to tell the difference between a flower and a weed. You either know your flowers from your weeds, or you are not green fingered !!! big grin

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 23.10.11 9:39

haha! I suppose after spending as much time on this as you have on this case, you will be able to.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 9:43

Sadly yes Upsy laughat

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 9:47

Now, I have a serious question concerning the possible taking of tablets.

As we know the PJ found bodily fluids in the boot of the hire car. They didn't specify which ones. Could they have been able to tell what was in her system at the time of death, if anything, or would they have needed something different to test or larger quantities of it ??

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 23.10.11 9:57

what about the strands of hair found in the car? Was it established that they belonged to Sean or Amelie. If not they surely would have been able to test them. Remember K only got the twins' hair tested 3 months afterwards, after a haircut.

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 10:10

@Upsy Daisy wrote:what about the strands of hair found in the car? Was it established that they belonged to Sean or Amelie. If not they surely would have been able to test them. Remember K only got the twins' hair tested 3 months afterwards, after a haircut.
clapping1 Exactly Upsy, I had forgotten about them. Yes, they can test hair to see what drugs have been in your system in the long term. But what will not be there is a sudden ingestion causing a fatal death, as there would be no time for the substance to get to the follicles, I believe.

Forensics should have tested every strand of hair they found in the car for this, instead of discarding them because they thought it was the wrong hair colour. God they were so naff. big grin

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 23.10.11 10:35

of course..... drugs would show up AFTER the event on a live persons hair. IF they died as a result of ingestion you would be able to tell from stomach content and no doubt blood/saliva but the hair wouldn't have had the chance to grow with the 'details' as it would stop at point of death. But this doesn't mean that there wasn't already drugs in her system but perhaps a different, stronger one that killed her. So, you are saying that the 'botched up DNA testing' discarded hair DNA evidence??? I am aware they only found 15 of 19 allelles of her fluids in that car but surely the hair would be the stand out piece of evidence??? I'm stating the obvious here aren't I...........

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Re: Could Madeleine have accidentally taken tablets?

Post by Guest on 23.10.11 10:45

Sometimes it needs to be repeated Upsy, for those who do not know about this. It should also be said that the hair was then destroyed, along with all it's history. What a disaster !!

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Brown or blond?

Post by tigger on 23.10.11 10:54

Stella wrote:
@Upsy Daisy wrote:what about the strands of hair found in the car? Was it established that they belonged to Sean or Amelie. If not they surely would have been able to test them. Remember K only got the twins' hair tested 3 months afterwards, after a haircut.
clapping1 Exactly Upsy, I had forgotten about them. Yes, they can test hair to see what drugs have been in your system in the long term. But what will not be there is a sudden ingestion causing a fatal death, as there would be no time for the substance to get to the follicles, I believe.

Forensics should have tested every strand of hair they found in the car for this, instead of discarding them because they thought it was the wrong hair colour. God they were so naff. big grin

On a lot of photographs and videos she doesn't look very blond at all, more mid brown, was this part of the deception? Strangely, on the poster her hair is brown, although the description was blond and even very blond. Blond children grow often into brown haired children but not the other way round?

Still, it's amazing they didn't test all the hair. Was that the FSS as well as the PJ forensic service?

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