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Where would a body be hidden?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.10.11 12:26

@jd wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
jd, do you mean Haynes Hubbard? His name has always seemed oddly familiar to me, for some reason. Who was the other vicar, they were BOTH from Norfolk? Ugh, it was bad enough having the Murat connection so close to home Sad
I may have got this wrong, in the vaults of my memory I think Murat's wife lives near East Dereham, can you name the town please, jd?
(For the record yes I MAY live in Norfolk LOL Wink!)

The vicar who was replaced on 6th May 2007 was Father John Wilson, who comes from a church in the same area in Norfolk England where Murat lived for many years. His replacement Father Hubbard also originated from Norfolk though the PR slant says he came from Canada but this is where he was working at the time and not his roots. I think it is East Dereham, I did a topic on this some months ago but cannot find it as it had all the info, probably carter rucked. But I have all the documents & press releases elsewhere so will take a look at them to refresh the places etc

Thanks jd that would be really helpful if you could. I can't shake the feeling that I've either read about Haynes Hubbard in the Eastern Daily Press OR seen his name on a church board. I'm not religious in the Christian manner but I absolutely love church buildings and churchyards, I've visited most in Norfolk. First time I read his name in connection to the McCann's a little corner of my mind was prodding me. I know I'd heard of him before. Question is where?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 26.10.11 12:42

@jd wrote:1) is it a coincidence that all the mobile phone activity started when Murat arrived in PDL?

2) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobile phone activity was the same between May 2nd and May 3rd?

3) is it a coincidence that RM switches his mobile phone back on at 23.20 on May 3rd, after 31 hours of the phone being switched off? (he knew nothing of the abduction until the next morning remember) And you can still speak on the phone while it is on charge

4) is it a coincidence that after a year with no contact and with obviously a lot to catch up on, Murat speaks with Sergei Malinka on his mobile phone at 23.40, for just 30 seconds only

5) is it a coincidence that on May 1st, the day Murat arrives in PDL, six contacts (texts or calls?) on KM’s mobile (22:16 – 22:28) and at the same time (22:00 - 22:14) there are six texts being transmitted between Murats mobile and Michaela Walczuch’s

6) is it a coincidence that GM received 12 voicemail messages on his mobile on 2nd May from his work which he never responded to with a single outgoing call? No activity to this level at any other time

7) is it a coincidence that unlike most normal people, GM doesn't receive voicemail messages on his mobile and instead has his voicemail messages sent to a number that eliminates any possibility of identification of his callers?

8) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobiles are switched off for the exact same time of 31 hours 25mins? (give or take 10 mins)

9) is it a coincidence that Murat was just half a mile away from Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien house in the UK for 7 days prior to them going to PDL for a holiday?

10) Am I being paranoid?

It also seems that 2 of the 3 Tapas friends, namely Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien, were the ones who told the police they saw Murat on the night and believe it was him that abducted Maddie

11) is it a coincidence that the 2 people whom Murat was just half a mile away from their house a week before in the UK, are a week later trying to stitch him up in a child abduction case in PDL?

12) is it a coincidence that if the 'Campbell' that was booked in at the Mark Warner resort on May 2nd is Lori Campbell (Sunday Mirror Reporter), apart from why is she there a day before the abduction...that she too framed Murat?

13) is it a coincidence that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien neighbours, James and Charlotte Gorrod, were also having a holiday at the PDL resort at exactly the same time?

14) is it a coincidence that there are hardly any photos of Maddie from the holiday? No beach photos? This from a child they loved to photo and who loved to be photoed

15) is it a coincidence that there are death smells only connected to the McCanns

16) is it a coincidence that the UK news media knew about the abduction before the police arrived?
bravo Good questions jd

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Marian on 26.10.11 13:03

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@jd wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
jd, do you mean Haynes Hubbard? His name has always seemed oddly familiar to me, for some reason. Who was the other vicar, they were BOTH from Norfolk? Ugh, it was bad enough having the Murat connection so close to home Sad
I may have got this wrong, in the vaults of my memory I think Murat's wife lives near East Dereham, can you name the town please, jd?
(For the record yes I MAY live in Norfolk LOL Wink!)

The vicar who was replaced on 6th May 2007 was Father John Wilson, who comes from a church in the same area in Norfolk England where Murat lived for many years. His replacement Father Hubbard also originated from Norfolk though the PR slant says he came from Canada but this is where he was working at the time and not his roots. I think it is East Dereham, I did a topic on this some months ago but cannot find it as it had all the info, probably carter rucked. But I have all the documents & press releases elsewhere so will take a look at them to refresh the places etc

Thanks jd that would be really helpful if you could. I can't shake the feeling that I've either read about Haynes Hubbard in the Eastern Daily Press OR seen his name on a church board. I'm not religious in the Christian manner but I absolutely love church buildings and churchyards, I've visited most in Norfolk. First time I read his name in connection to the McCann's a little corner of my mind was prodding me. I know I'd heard of him before. Question is where?

There's an old topic on St Vincent's which might be of interest. www.jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3158-st-vincents-algarve?highlight=algarve

Plus the ever useful Pamalam site - http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PRIESTS.htm

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by jd on 26.10.11 13:26

Well done Marian...this was one of the topics I was looking for

Rainbow-fairy, here is a bit more info...... "Robert Murat lived in Hockering, Dereham, Norfolk until 2005, having moved there in 2001 from Lenwade also in Norfolk. His ex wife Dawn still lives in Hockering and Murat moved to PDL in 2005. In the very same local area of Hockering is a place called Wells, from the church there comes Father John Wilson who at the time of Maddies disappearance just so happened to be.....the priest at the church at Praia da Luz which was visited daily by the McCann family since little Maddie was snatched....oddly enough Father John Wilson was replaced on 6th May 2007!"

Maybe you can tell us how near Wells is to Hockering?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Xavier on 26.10.11 14:02

@Marian wrote:I don't know if she still lives in Hockering but that name has been mentioned in the past.

I wonder if this is the same person - unusual name, right area!

http://www.wisbechstandard.co.uk/sport/fenland_star_murat_bags_double_success_at_norfolk_open_taekwon_do_championships_1_908048[/quote[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">]



I suggest there is unlikely to be any connection. But it depends on whether Robert Murat's ex wife has a 16 year old son called Stuart.

[url=http://www.wisbechstandard.co.uk/sport/mother_and_son_to_hold_taekwon_do_class_in_wisbech_1_388924?ot=archant.PrintFriendlyPageLayout.ot]http://www.wisbechstandard.co.uk/sport/mother_and_son_to_hold_taekwon_do_class_in_wisbech_1_388924?ot=archant.PrintFriendlyPageLayout.ot

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Lady-Heather on 26.10.11 14:15

Hi JD,

I think 'Wells' is Wells-next-to-the-sea. According to google maps it's approx 30 miles from Hockering.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Marian on 26.10.11 14:15

Thanks for that Xavier. No it's the not the same Dawn Murat as her son is called David and must be in his twenties. I wouldn't have thought there were many Murats in Norfolk though.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by jd on 26.10.11 14:28

@Lady-Heather wrote:Hi JD,

I think 'Wells' is Wells-next-to-the-sea. According to google maps it's approx 30 miles from Hockering.

Thanks Lady Heather. This is quite further away that I expected it to be

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.10.11 14:35

Stella wrote:
@jd wrote:1) is it a coincidence that all the mobile phone activity started when Murat arrived in PDL?

2) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobile phone activity was the same between May 2nd and May 3rd?

3) is it a coincidence that RM switches his mobile phone back on at 23.20 on May 3rd, after 31 hours of the phone being switched off? (he knew nothing of the abduction until the next morning remember) And you can still speak on the phone while it is on charge

4) is it a coincidence that after a year with no contact and with obviously a lot to catch up on, Murat speaks with Sergei Malinka on his mobile phone at 23.40, for just 30 seconds only

5) is it a coincidence that on May 1st, the day Murat arrives in PDL, six contacts (texts or calls?) on KM’s mobile (22:16 – 22:28) and at the same time (22:00 - 22:14) there are six texts being transmitted between Murats mobile and Michaela Walczuch’s

6) is it a coincidence that GM received 12 voicemail messages on his mobile on 2nd May from his work which he never responded to with a single outgoing call? No activity to this level at any other time

7) is it a coincidence that unlike most normal people, GM doesn't receive voicemail messages on his mobile and instead has his voicemail messages sent to a number that eliminates any possibility of identification of his callers?

8) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobiles are switched off for the exact same time of 31 hours 25mins? (give or take 10 mins)

9) is it a coincidence that Murat was just half a mile away from Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien house in the UK for 7 days prior to them going to PDL for a holiday?

10) Am I being paranoid?

It also seems that 2 of the 3 Tapas friends, namely Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien, were the ones who told the police they saw Murat on the night and believe it was him that abducted Maddie

11) is it a coincidence that the 2 people whom Murat was just half a mile away from their house a week before in the UK, are a week later trying to stitch him up in a child abduction case in PDL?

12) is it a coincidence that if the 'Campbell' that was booked in at the Mark Warner resort on May 2nd is Lori Campbell (Sunday Mirror Reporter), apart from why is she there a day before the abduction...that she too framed Murat?

13) is it a coincidence that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien neighbours, James and Charlotte Gorrod, were also having a holiday at the PDL resort at exactly the same time?

14) is it a coincidence that there are hardly any photos of Maddie from the holiday? No beach photos? This from a child they loved to photo and who loved to be photoed

15) is it a coincidence that there are death smells only connected to the McCanns

16) is it a coincidence that the UK news media knew about the abduction before the police arrived?
Good questions jd

Absolutely. Well said jd and Stella!
I'm having a bit of a brain-block today, what is that VERY well-known saying about coincidence, that when it gets to three it's no longer coincidence? Grrr, its so frustrating - it's on the tip of my tongue, I'm sure most of you will know what I mean. I find the amount of hours both GMcC and RM to be 'incommunicado' very strange to say the least.
I'm not convinced RM had anything to do with the actual fate of M, but I do think he, knowingly or otherwise, played a key (sorry!) role in the temporary storage of her. I also don't believe he was made arguido purely on the say so of Jane Tanner, Campbell etc. I think their finger-pointing was a typical reactive move by the McCanns, covering up in case incriminating evidence were found on him. Note the fact the T9 denied knowing him also.
No. The PJ are far, far from stupid. They had VERY good reasons to name him arguido along with K+G, and I believ the most incriminating evidence to be in the hands of the PJ still. The portion that was not revealed to the public. Do the McCanns know what information they have? I'm sure they have a fairly good idea, and I think this is much of the reason why they have been so desperate to discredit the PJ, Snr Amaral in particular.

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 26.10.11 14:38

I don't know if this interview with Haynes Hubbard (or Hubbery according to the BBC!) has been seen before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6990000/newsid_6990500/6990587.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm@asb=1&news=1

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.10.11 15:09

@jd wrote:Well done Marian...this was one of the topics I was looking for

Rainbow-fairy, here is a bit more info...... "Robert Murat lived in Hockering, Dereham, Norfolk until 2005, having moved there in 2001 from Lenwade also in Norfolk. His ex wife Dawn still lives in Hockering and Murat moved to PDL in 2005. In the very same local area of Hockering is a place called Wells, from the church there comes Father John Wilson who at the time of Maddies disappearance just so happened to be.....the priest at the church at Praia da Luz which was visited daily by the McCann family since little Maddie was snatched....oddly enough Father John Wilson was replaced on 6th May 2007!"

Maybe you can tell us how near Wells is to Hockering?

Sorry jd, been off forum for a while getting the kids lunches! By 'eck, Lenwade is even closer to me! Wells would be Wells-next-the-Sea, which while both in Norfolk, not that close. Wells (which coincidentally nearby Walsingham has a shrine to our Lady) is up on the N Norfolk coast, towards the Wash whereas East Dereham is pretty much the heart of Norfolk. I'd think probably 25 miles or so best guess?
It's such a small world isn't it - thanks for your extra info.

Marian

Thanks for those links. I'll read those later Wink

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 27.10.11 20:00

Stella wrote:
@jd wrote:1) is it a coincidence that all the mobile phone activity started when Murat arrived in PDL?

2) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobile phone activity was the same between May 2nd and May 3rd?

3) is it a coincidence that RM switches his mobile phone back on at 23.20 on May 3rd, after 31 hours of the phone being switched off? (he knew nothing of the abduction until the next morning remember) And you can still speak on the phone while it is on charge

4) is it a coincidence that after a year with no contact and with obviously a lot to catch up on, Murat speaks with Sergei Malinka on his mobile phone at 23.40, for just 30 seconds only

5) is it a coincidence that on May 1st, the day Murat arrives in PDL, six contacts (texts or calls?) on KM’s mobile (22:16 – 22:28) and at the same time (22:00 - 22:14) there are six texts being transmitted between Murats mobile and Michaela Walczuch’s

6) is it a coincidence that GM received 12 voicemail messages on his mobile on 2nd May from his work which he never responded to with a single outgoing call? No activity to this level at any other time

7) is it a coincidence that unlike most normal people, GM doesn't receive voicemail messages on his mobile and instead has his voicemail messages sent to a number that eliminates any possibility of identification of his callers?

8) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobiles are switched off for the exact same time of 31 hours 25mins? (give or take 10 mins)

9) is it a coincidence that Murat was just half a mile away from Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien house in the UK for 7 days prior to them going to PDL for a holiday?

10) Am I being paranoid?

It also seems that 2 of the 3 Tapas friends, namely Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien, were the ones who told the police they saw Murat on the night and believe it was him that abducted Maddie

11) is it a coincidence that the 2 people whom Murat was just half a mile away from their house a week before in the UK, are a week later trying to stitch him up in a child abduction case in PDL?

12) is it a coincidence that if the 'Campbell' that was booked in at the Mark Warner resort on May 2nd is Lori Campbell (Sunday Mirror Reporter), apart from why is she there a day before the abduction...that she too framed Murat?

13) is it a coincidence that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien neighbours, James and Charlotte Gorrod, were also having a holiday at the PDL resort at exactly the same time?

14) is it a coincidence that there are hardly any photos of Maddie from the holiday? No beach photos? This from a child they loved to photo and who loved to be photoed

15) is it a coincidence that there are death smells only connected to the McCanns

16) is it a coincidence that the UK news media knew about the abduction before the police arrived?
Good questions jd

I have to say, that is an excellent itemisation the Exeter and Norfolk coincidences of what IMHO is or should be a major focus of the investigation. On the Mirror forum when these things first seemed to be discussed it was a real WTF moment.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by jd on 28.10.11 0:59

There is lots more that are coincidences and this was only the start. When you analyse the facts you only reach that WTF moment, and this is from Facts! Makes you wonder why the powers of this country, the police, the carter rucks are on the side of the scam....Read into this what you will but I think we all know. But their day is nearly over now, honesty and justice is going to win through

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Fossilfuel on 28.10.11 1:08

@jd wrote: But their day is nearly over now, honesty and justice is going to win through

I hope to god you're right. I wonder who will have the balls to see justice done without the fear of backlash?
Hopefully the path will be clear for them but I just hope that the 'powers that be' wont continue to obstruct the course of justice.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by jd on 28.10.11 1:15

@Fossilfuel wrote:
@jd wrote: But their day is nearly over now, honesty and justice is going to win through

I hope to god you're right. I wonder who will have the balls to see justice done without the fear of backlash?
Hopefully the path will be clear for them but I just hope that the 'powers that be' wont continue to obstruct the course of justice.

There are certain powers that are spineless wimps, but others that have the balls and the determination that the UK is a decent honest society. I will be right trust me, the McCanns and their cronies believe they have the power to silence and do what they like....only they are in for a big shock and I would be worried if I was them...unless they like porridge

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Fossilfuel on 28.10.11 1:57

@jd wrote:
@Fossilfuel wrote:
@jd wrote: But their day is nearly over now, honesty and justice is going to win through

I hope to god you're right. I wonder who will have the balls to see justice done without the fear of backlash?
Hopefully the path will be clear for them but I just hope that the 'powers that be' wont continue to obstruct the course of justice.

There are certain powers that are spineless wimps, but others that have the balls and the determination that the UK is a decent honest society. I will be right trust me, the McCanns and their cronies believe they have the power to silence and do what they like....only they are in for a big shock and I would be worried if I was them...unless they like porridge
You've made me feel very positive about it all, thanks Jd!

Can you imagine the headlines? I often wonder after all this time whether the Mccanns would be given a 'proper' sentence, I know for sure that they would plead their twins, a bit like women pleading their bellies to avoid being hanged.

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Maddie's DNA in Murat's House??

Post by tumbleweed on 28.10.11 12:24

Very sorry if this has been brought up before, but I found this during my
reading today and then saw that Murat was being discussed here. Does
anyone know if there is anything about this in the case files or what
came of it? I'd never heard it, despite having followed the news back
then pretty closely.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 28.10.11 12:32

No tumbleweed. Maddie's DNA was not found in Murat's house, that is incorrect.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by tumbleweed on 28.10.11 12:46

Ok, sorry. I guess I don't really understand how to discredit things properly. I can't find anything discrediting it. Does someone working for the McCann's have influence over what is put in this paper? How can I find for myself that this is untrue? Sorry if I'm being a nuisance, but this is kind of a big thing for me to brush aside.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Tinkerbell81 on 28.10.11 15:20

I wouldnt be amazed that they are a "pro McCann therefore controlled" newspaper. Kate says in her book she sued a newspaper group to "set an example and make others think" (not sure if this particular newspaper was targeted, she says the express group if memory serves me well but as a non-UK person I have only a vague idea about newspapers in the UK)

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Daisy on 28.10.11 16:03

@Tinkerbell81 wrote:I wouldnt be amazed that they are a "pro McCann therefore controlled" newspaper. Kate says in her book she sued a newspaper group to "set an example and make others think" (not sure if this particular newspaper was targeted, she says the express group if memory serves me well but as a non-UK person I have only a vague idea about newspapers in the UK)

Hi Tinkerbell, yes the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday, agreed to pay "substantial undisclosed damages" to the McCanns and Murat. I read somewhere (mccannfiles) there were 11 British newspapers, plus Sky TV sued for damages by Murat, not sure if this was same for Mccanns.

@ Tumbleweed, sorry can't help with your question. But thanks for the link, not read that before. Interesting observations from the waiter about Kate & Gerry's behaviour there.

"Meanwhile new claims have been made that Gerry McCann organised
a game of tennis in the days after his daughter Madeleine
disappeared. In an allegation likely to infuriate the McCanns, a
waiter at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Laz said Gerry and Kate
were "very cool" after she vanished and seemed less upset than
their friends. The waiter said: "What we found really strange was
Gerry, days after the little girl disappeared, calmly playing
tennis. He played with an old couple from England.

"I thought that everybody else in the group seemed more upset
and stressed and bothered than the parents.

"They were so cool about it. I never saw them cry or anything.
They played tennis and went jogging.

"They didn't seem as distraught as their friends. If my kid
disappeared I'd go insane. I wouldn't be able to function. They'd
have to lock me away."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html#ixzz1c5VeCdnX

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.10.11 21:24

@Daisy wrote:
@Tinkerbell81 wrote:I wouldnt be amazed that they are a "pro McCann therefore controlled" newspaper. Kate says in her book she sued a newspaper group to "set an example and make others think" (not sure if this particular newspaper was targeted, she says the express group if memory serves me well but as a non-UK person I have only a vague idea about newspapers in the UK)

Hi Tinkerbell, yes the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday, agreed to pay "substantial undisclosed damages" to the McCanns and Murat. I read somewhere (mccannfiles) there were 11 British newspapers, plus Sky TV sued for damages by Murat, not sure if this was same for Mccanns.

@ Tumbleweed, sorry can't help with your question. But thanks for the link, not read that before. Interesting observations from the waiter about Kate & Gerry's behaviour there.

"Meanwhile new claims have been made that Gerry McCann organised
a game of tennis in the days after his daughter Madeleine
disappeared. In an allegation likely to infuriate the McCanns, a
waiter at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Laz said Gerry and Kate
were "very cool" after she vanished and seemed less upset than
their friends. The waiter said: "What we found really strange was
Gerry, days after the little girl disappeared, calmly playing
tennis. He played with an old couple from England.

"I thought that everybody else in the group seemed more upset
and stressed and bothered than the parents.

"They were so cool about it. I never saw them cry or anything.
They played tennis and went jogging.

"They didn't seem as distraught as their friends. If my kid
disappeared I'd go insane. I wouldn't be able to function. They'd
have to lock me away."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html#ixzz1c5VeCdnX
Thank you so much for this, Daisy. So true. It reminds me again of the book I read recently - 'Sara Payne: A Mother's Story'. Now that is an honest book. It was mentioned how for months after poor Sarah was taken the whole family very often wouldn't get out of bed. The other children stayed off school. When the adults were up they were very often drinking heavily to blot out the pain. I know people do react differently, but nothing the McCann's do seems remotely believable to me. It's like they know how they 'should' behave, but they just can't do it authentically. So cold and robotic.

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by tumbleweed on 28.10.11 22:35

Very interesting what she says about suing a newspaper. I really need to force myself to read her book if there is that sort of information in it. I still can't find anything else about the DNA in Murat's flat, so I'll take it with a large grain of salt, just like I do everything else to do with all this. Thanks for the responses.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 29.10.11 8:55

@tumbleweed wrote:Ok, sorry. I guess I don't really understand how to discredit things properly. I can't find anything discrediting it. Does someone working for the McCann's have influence over what is put in this paper? How can I find for myself that this is untrue? Sorry if I'm being a nuisance, but this is kind of a big thing for me to brush aside.
You could read the Portuguese Forensic Institute Report.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by tumbleweed on 29.10.11 9:57

Very informative, thank you. I had read some of this before when Burgau was being discussed, but didn't notice they'd taken samples from his car and house. I guess the news paper just got imaginative with that information.

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