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Are we still looking for Maddie?

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Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by twinkle on 24.01.10 0:03

Just me wondering and thinking out loud.
Is our main purpose on these forums to help in the finding of Maddie?
Or have we now reached a stage where the emphasis has shifted to the common theme being WHAT happened to her, and finding somewhere to point the finger of blame when this happens.
When I look around our little street of cyberland, it seems the importance is discrediting others opinions rather than the fact a child is missing.
None of us know what happened, we either support the files, or we support the PJ.
Nobody has any concrete evidence to support either. (I'll get the tin hat on now shall i?? )
I sometimes wonder if the personal arguments have done damage to our common purpose.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 24.01.10 10:16

Good questions Twinkle, which I don't think should require a tin hat.

How can we find Maddie by chatting in a forum? Surely to find Maddie we would have to physically get outside and start looking? The world is a big place, where do we start? I can't go to Portugal and look. Her parents can afford to go to Portugal, though, but even they don't look.

We could raise money for the McCanns to search, but how do we trust they won't spend the money on mortgage payments and more lawyers? They haven't finished suing people yet and they want more money. I don't feel inclined to give them money for that purpose when there's no evidence they've used any money to search. So, if they're not physically searching, I suppose you have to wonder why.

As for supporting the files OR the PJ - aren't they one and the same thing? I don't understand what you mean by one or the other.

The personal arguments certainly have caused damage, yet it was done deliberately by a group of people to distract from what we all joined together to do in the first place. The whole group that were joined together on the 3 Arguido's have been dispersed into various camps and some people don't belong anywhere anymore. The troublemakers join all the forums and try their tactics all over again. People don't want us talking about Madeleine. Who are those people? If they are Team McCann then you have to ask why they don't want us talking about Maddie.

Many people spent hundreds/thousands of hours working on the files but where has it got them in the end? Yes, they're knowlegeable and they've spent many hours discussing them, but what now? The case needs to be reopened somehow. Something needs to push the case forward and, think what you will of John Hirst, but if he is successful in getting an Inquest opened with a coroner and jury, then that's a start isn't it?

I don't know how these things work, but if an Inquest concluded that Madeleine isn't dead, then surely (if I was Maddie's parent anyway) I would demand the investigation was reopened.

I think Grenville and his team are the ones who can answer your question about what we can do now to help the cause. They don't seem to be giving up, but they also don't seem to be giving us much in the way of future plans. Maybe they're taking time out to think of a way forward. It's like we're stuck in a time warp with no direction. I think many people are licking their wounds from all the trouble that's been caused by Team McCann and their supporters - and recently by so-called 'Anti-McCanns'. Many of us don't know who to trust anymore.

And, of course, Goncalo has been silenced so there's not much news coming from Portugal. Thank goodness for Joana and her team, though.

The McCanns asked for help and we all tried to give them help and then they turned round and attacked us and blamed us for harming the search for their daughter that they never even personally took part in themselves.

I, for one, am very disillusioned by this whole case - especially the attacks that were done on many of us for no particular reason other than entertainment. I'm also disillusioned with Debbie Butler, who I supported on my blog through thick and thin when she was Chairman of the MF. I cannot now believe she was at the helm of such an innovative Foundation and turned out to be such a troublemaker. I dont believe any child's Foundation should have someone like that in charge and I'm glad she no longer is.

As for the way forward, who knows? Tony? Any ideas?

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 24.01.10 12:43

Seems the only ones who have been searching, (probably use the words loosely) have been the McCanns PI's. The PJ are not interested now, and there is no news from Portugal because there is no news coming out. It is nothing to do with anyone being silenced, just that there is no news.

Nothing any of us can do will help, no Foundation will help, no forum will help, no books will help. All that will help is either the person or persons who did it comes forward and says they did it, or someone stumbles across Madeleine.

Sorry but that is the way it is, like i said The Foundation can rabble roouse and support Amaral as much as they want, it will not find Madeleine.

The McCanns can sue whoever, it will not find Madeleine.

Amaral can write as many lies as possible it will not find madeleine.

People can talk on forums, it will not find Madeleine.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by ufercoffy on 24.01.10 12:49

Might aswell switch the lights off and go home then.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 24.01.10 13:08

So what can you do then ufercoffy to find her?

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Pascal on 24.01.10 14:29

I think it would be a good idea for those who spout hatred directed at anyone should remove their posts/forums/blogs. and I mean anyone.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Pascal on 24.01.10 14:40

I think those who post pictures from peoples facebook accounts are the lowest of the low.

For those of you who don't already know it, if you use the same email addyused for your facebook account as the one you use on forums, you are putting yourself at risk. All any unscrupulous person need do google the addy and it directs straight to your Facebook page.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Kololi on 24.01.10 15:12

nemesis wrote:Seems the only ones who have been searching, (probably use the words loosely) have been the McCanns PI's. The PJ are not interested now, and there is no news from Portugal because there is no news coming out. It is nothing to do with anyone being silenced, just that there is no news.

Nothing any of us can do will help, no Foundation will help, no forum will help, no books will help. All that will help is either the person or persons who did it comes forward and says they did it, or someone stumbles across Madeleine.

Sorry but that is the way it is, like i said The Foundation can rabble roouse and support Amaral as much as they want, it will not find Madeleine.

The McCanns can sue whoever, it will not find Madeleine.



People can talk on forums, it will not find Madeleine.


Apart from your next to last sentence, Nemesis, which I do not feel in a position to agree with, I think your post says it all.

I would add that I am guessing that the fund money will dry up and Madeleine is likely to become another Ben Needham unless, as you mentioned, somebody stumbles across her. All very sad and not the outcome that anybody, whether they believe the McCanns or not, would wish for but the reality is, in only my opinion, that the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that there will be no money to keep this "search" for her going.

Take care

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 24.01.10 15:27

jkh wrote:Good questions Twinkle, which I don't think should require a tin hat.

How can we find Maddie by chatting in a forum? Surely to find Maddie we would have to physically get outside and start looking? The world is a big place, where do we start? I can't go to Portugal and look. Her parents can afford to go to Portugal, though, but even they don't look.

We could raise money for the McCanns to search, but how do we trust they won't spend the money on mortgage payments and more lawyers? They haven't finished suing people yet and they want more money. I don't feel inclined to give them money for that purpose when there's no evidence they've used any money to search. So, if they're not physically searching, I suppose you have to wonder why.

As for supporting the files OR the PJ - aren't they one and the same thing? I don't understand what you mean by one or the other.

The personal arguments certainly have caused damage, yet it was done deliberately by a group of people to distract from what we all joined together to do in the first place. The whole group that were joined together on the 3 Arguido's have been dispersed into various camps and some people don't belong anywhere anymore. The troublemakers join all the forums and try their tactics all over again. People don't want us talking about Madeleine. Who are those people? If they are Team McCann then you have to ask why they don't want us talking about Maddie.

Many people spent hundreds/thousands of hours working on the files but where has it got them in the end? Yes, they're knowlegeable and they've spent many hours discussing them, but what now? The case needs to be reopened somehow. Something needs to push the case forward and, think what you will of John Hirst, but if he is successful in getting an Inquest opened with a coroner and jury, then that's a start isn't it?

I don't know how these things work, but if an Inquest concluded that Madeleine isn't dead, then surely (if I was Maddie's parent anyway) I would demand the investigation was reopened.

I think Grenville and his team are the ones who can answer your question about what we can do now to help the cause. They don't seem to be giving up, but they also don't seem to be giving us much in the way of future plans. Maybe they're taking time out to think of a way forward. It's like we're stuck in a time warp with no direction. I think many people are licking their wounds from all the trouble that's been caused by Team McCann and their supporters - and recently by so-called 'Anti-McCanns'. Many of us don't know who to trust anymore.

And, of course, Goncalo has been silenced so there's not much news coming from Portugal. Thank goodness for Joana and her team, though.

The McCanns asked for help and we all tried to give them help and then they turned round and attacked us and blamed us for harming the search for their daughter that they never even personally took part in themselves.

I, for one, am very disillusioned by this whole case - especially the attacks that were done on many of us for no particular reason other than entertainment. I'm also disillusioned with Debbie Butler, who I supported on my blog through thick and thin when she was Chairman of the MF. I cannot now believe she was at the helm of such an innovative Foundation and turned out to be such a troublemaker. I dont believe any child's Foundation should have someone like that in charge and I'm glad she no longer is.

As for the way forward, who knows? Tony? Any ideas?


Says it all for me, Jill.

I believe the Files and PJ are one of the same, not sure what Twinkle means either.
As for the way forward, depending on the full trial going ahead, I think it will be interesting to see how things pan out as the McCanns' 'dirty laundry' comes out in the wash.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 24.01.10 16:50

nemesis wrote:Seems the only ones who have been searching, (probably use the words loosely) have been the McCanns PI's. The PJ are not interested now, and there is no news from Portugal because there is no news coming out. It is nothing to do with anyone being silenced, just that there is no news.

Nothing any of us can do will help, no Foundation will help, no forum will help, no books will help. All that will help is either the person or persons who did it comes forward and says they did it, or someone stumbles across Madeleine.

Sorry but that is the way it is, like i said The Foundation can rabble roouse and support Amaral as much as they want, it will not find Madeleine.

The McCanns can sue whoever, it will not find Madeleine.

Amaral can write as many lies as possible it will not find madeleine.

People can talk on forums, it will not find Madeleine.


Quote from the Daily Star 24th JAN 2010

'Mr Edgar is convinced that she was kidnapped and his team are still receiving a 'substantial amount' of calls and e-mails containing new information.'

So why, given all this 'new information' are the McCanns dragging Mr Amaral through the courts, insisting that his book is hampering the 'search'?'

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 16:52

Maybe because IF there is a paedophile out there with Madeleine then he's making their life very easy.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 24.01.10 18:08

Sorry but I do not understanding what you mean.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 18:14

Amaral tells the world that the McCanns know what happened to their daughter.

If there is an abductor I bet he's loving Amaral right now.

In the same way as Robert Napper probably highly appreciated the work of Paul Britton.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 24.01.10 18:22

@vaguely1 wrote:Maybe because IF there is a paedophile out there with Madeleine then he's making their life very easy.


And so are Dodgy Dave and the McCanns - they claim to know where Madeleine is then someone tell them to get off their backsides and go an get her. I know the McCanns are busy organising their Celeb 'Star-Studded' Party, shopping around for champagne and chinese lanterns but come on, spare a thought for poor Madeleine languishing in her underground lair. She must be fed up of waiting.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 24.01.10 18:31

@vaguely1 wrote:Maybe because IF there is a paedophile out there with Madeleine then he's making their life very easy.

And so are Dodgy Dave and the McCanns. They keep telling us that they know where Madeleine is so why don't they get off their backsides and go and get her? Yes, I know they do have their 'Star-Studded' Party to organize and guest lists to attend to. One has to feel for them what with finding time shopping around for Chinese lanterns and champage, we really mustn't be too harsh on them. Im filling up....

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 18:32


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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Pascal on 24.01.10 18:56

Autumn.

I give up.

never mind

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by twinkle on 24.01.10 20:01

Whoops sorry about the OP, I was rather drunk at the time. :oops: lol!
I think I mean't people either believe the McCanns or Amaral, and most people's energy seems more concentrated in discrediting others than anything else.
Going for a lie down now.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 20:31

@twinkle wrote:Whoops sorry about the OP, I was rather drunk at the time. :oops: lol!
I think I mean't people either believe the McCanns or Amaral, and most people's energy seems more concentrated in discrediting others than anything else.
Going for a lie down now.

it's a matter of hoping to find out what happened, not a faith based activity. At least it should be.

Forums in general do tend to be partisan, which precludes them ever being able to get near the truth.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Cath on 24.01.10 23:56

It's all a matter of opinion Vaguely.
It's impossible to get near the truth. Too many missing links. Too much missing information.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 30.01.10 12:38

Maybe a more pertinant question would be 'Why, given that Dave Edgar persists in telling the media that Maddie is being held captive within 10 miles of PDL, has he not organised a search of the area? Stranger still, why have the McCanns never alluded to Dave's 'conviction' regarding their daughter's presumed whereabouts. Either they don't have much faith in his investigative abilities or he is being paid by the McCanns to spout lies. Which is it?

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 30.01.10 12:53

@Autumn wrote:Maybe a more pertinant question would be 'Why, given that Dave Edgar persists in telling the media that Maddie is being held captive within 10 miles of PDL, has he not organised a search of the area? Stranger still, why have the McCanns never alluded to Dave's 'conviction' regarding their daughter's presumed whereabouts. Either they don't have much faith in his investigative abilities or he is being paid by the McCanns to spout lies. Which is it?


Persists in telling - how many times has he said this?

Aside from this, the logistics of carrying out a search in this area, with no official right to do so.....a ten mile radius.....how do you even start to do that? You have no rights to enter property, you don't have the manpower to swarm the area.

The police wouldn't be capable of searching such a vast area effectively either.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Guest on 30.01.10 13:01

@vaguely1 wrote:
@Autumn wrote:Maybe a more pertinant question would be 'Why, given that Dave Edgar persists in telling the media that Maddie is being held captive within 10 miles of PDL, has he not organised a search of the area? Stranger still, why have the McCanns never alluded to Dave's 'conviction' regarding their daughter's presumed whereabouts. Either they don't have much faith in his investigative abilities or he is being paid by the McCanns to spout lies. Which is it?


Persists in telling - how many times has he said this?

Aside from this, the logistics of carrying out a search in this area, with no official right to do so.....a ten mile radius.....how do you even start to do that? You have no rights to enter property, you don't have the manpower to swarm the area.

The police wouldn't be capable of searching such a vast area effectively either.


If he has some sort of information that makes him think this, surely he should inform the PJ and ask them to re-open the case. You wouldn't come out with a coment like that on a whim. He must have some sort of evidence. In fact, I think the PJ should have had him in for an interview last time he was over in PDL, (which was when the hearing was on in LIsbon I think), and ask him what evidence he has for coming to this conclusion.

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by Autumn on 30.01.10 13:37

Dave, as discreet as ever, gave interviews to the press telling them of his 'conviction' re Maddie's whereabouts - that struck me as a strange thing for a private detective to do, warning the 'abductor' in advance that he was on to them. Why, if he was so convinced, did he not take a team undercover to search the area - surely between Brian Kennedy and the Fund there would have been sufficient money to fund a basic search?
Why are those, including journalists, who believe that she was abducted not pressing for more information and evidence about this?
Why have the McCanns not over there, drumming up support for their search and having a look round themselves?
It just doesn't add up does it?

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Re: Are we still looking for Maddie?

Post by vaguely1 on 30.01.10 15:52

candyfloss wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
@Autumn wrote:Maybe a more pertinant question would be 'Why, given that Dave Edgar persists in telling the media that Maddie is being held captive within 10 miles of PDL, has he not organised a search of the area? Stranger still, why have the McCanns never alluded to Dave's 'conviction' regarding their daughter's presumed whereabouts. Either they don't have much faith in his investigative abilities or he is being paid by the McCanns to spout lies. Which is it?


Persists in telling - how many times has he said this?

Aside from this, the logistics of carrying out a search in this area, with no official right to do so.....a ten mile radius.....how do you even start to do that? You have no rights to enter property, you don't have the manpower to swarm the area.

The police wouldn't be capable of searching such a vast area effectively either.


If he has some sort of information that makes him think this, surely he should inform the PJ and ask them to re-open the case. You wouldn't come out with a coment like that on a whim. He must have some sort of evidence. In fact, I think the PJ should have had him in for an interview last time he was over in PDL, (which was when the hearing was on in LIsbon I think), and ask him what evidence he has for coming to this conclusion.

It depends what he bases his thoughts on. If it's based on the behaviour of lone paedophiles then she would be far more likely to have been taken by a local person, and held locally. If anyone here has any idea how you can effectively and efficiently search every piece of land and property in a 10 miles radius, whilst expecting people to sit still and wait for you to get to them then maybe they could share it.

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