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Sofa + accident = death, really?

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by ultimaThule on 27.05.14 6:39

@Watching wrote:
@jack dexter wrote:
@canada12 wrote:It can't have been Maddie Maddie as Kate clearly states that they have never used that name.

Must be another white lie Canada. Think the fact they go out of their way far to much to cover there tracks will come back and bit them soon.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id169.html


[table style="font-family: 'Times New Roman';" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="100%"][tr][td]
[color:cc46=0DD8E6]Madeleine or Maddie?

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]
[color:cc46=000000]"Madeleine called herself 'Madeleine', and that was very much the name in the family as well, so that makes us wonder if this was indeed Madeleine," said Clarence Mitchell to the BBC in August 2008, in relation to another false 'sighting'.



[color:cc46=000000]
[color:cc46=000000]The 'Look for Maddie' presentation in Madrid
[size=16]

[color:cc46=000000]In spite of Mr Mitchell's words, all the nannies who came into contact with Madeleine at the Ocean Club claim that Madeleine was presented to them under the diminutive "Maddie".

Indeed, the rest of the family, including Gerry and the twins, all refer to Madeleine as 'Maddie'.

Which begs the question: Why is Kate now saying that they "never called her anything like that" and that 'Maddie' was a name "invented" by the media?
< snip >

How can you doubt Kate's word, [b]Watching[b], especially when the pix you've reproduced show that any reports to the effect that she told Piers Morgan "If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye" or that Gerry said "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy" have clearly been invented by the media  sarcastic 

Fwiw, I refuse to believe that a woman who calls her son "Seany"* didn't shorten her eldest daughter's name to "Maddy" on occasion.

*Exhibit KH1 p.277

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by aiyoyo on 27.05.14 7:23

@lj wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@jack dexter wrote:[
It can't have been Maddie Maddie as Kate clearly states that they have never used that name.

We know Kate has a nose bird can park to crap on.
Imagine in a panic/emergency situation Kate's shouting "Madeleine ! Madeleine !"

This really made me laugh because it sounds so nuts, but what does it exactly mean, and where does it come from?

Metaphorically speaking lair nose grows.....

Kate is a proven pathological liar.
Her nose by now must surpass Pinnochio nose ever was.....at least long enough for a big black crow to rest on figuratively speaking.

Incidentally, scientists discovered that  liars noses really do grow according to this piece of article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32254/Liars-noses-really-grow.html

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Guest on 27.05.14 9:46

@aiyoyo wrote:
@jack dexter wrote:[
It can't have been Maddie Maddie as Kate clearly states that they have never used that name.

We know Kate has a nose bird can park to crap on.
Imagine in a panic/emergency situation Kate's shouting "Madeleine ! Madeleine !"

Imagine in a panic/emergency situation Gerry's shouting " Margar ...Muddl ...Girl!"




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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by lj on 27.05.14 15:14

@aiyoyo wrote:
@lj wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@jack dexter wrote:[
It can't have been Maddie Maddie as Kate clearly states that they have never used that name.

We know Kate has a nose bird can park to crap on.
Imagine in a panic/emergency situation Kate's shouting "Madeleine ! Madeleine !"

This really made me laugh because it sounds so nuts, but what does it exactly mean, and where does it come from?

Metaphorically speaking lair nose grows.....

Kate is a proven pathological liar.
Her nose by now must surpass Pinnochio nose ever was.....at least long enough for a big black crow to rest on figuratively speaking.

Incidentally, scientists discovered that  liars noses really do grow according to this piece of article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32254/Liars-noses-really-grow.html

Ah now I get the picture!

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Guest on 27.05.14 16:08

After many years on the case, it suddenly dawned on me -as Im sure on many others- that one would expect a distraught & bereft mother to begin with shouting for help, as in " HELP, HELP, HELP ANYONE"

Instead of which: " They've taken Madeleine' or 'they've taken her'

or some other lengthy a/o confusing exclamation


Why not a simple HELP?

Suggestions, anyone?

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Guest on 27.05.14 16:47

@Portia wrote:After many years on the case, it suddenly dawned on me -as Im sure on many others- that one would expect a distraught & bereft mother to begin with shouting for help, as in " HELP, HELP, HELP ANYONE"

Instead of which: " They've taken Madeleine' or 'they've taken her'

or some other lengthy a/o confusing exclamation


Why not a simple HELP?

Suggestions, anyone?




I so agree. I think one's' immediate reaction would be "NO, NO, MADDIE, MADDIE, MADDIE" ad infinitum. In shock instinct takes over. Deep, basic reactions to your child suddenly missing must, surely, blank everything else from your thoughts.
I'd be very interested in other 'suggestions'.



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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Guest on 27.05.14 18:36

In that context, it has always puzzled me, why everyone immediately understood that the "her", was Madeleine and not Amelie ...

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by canada12 on 27.05.14 18:46

I actually think the most human reaction to discovering your child not being where you left her, in her room or the flat, would be to run outside shouting the child's name while you were looking for her. Not Help! Help! Not, They've taken her! But: "Madeleine! Madeleine!" or "Maddie! Maddie! Where are you? Maddie?"

Before you shouted for help or anything else. Because you wouldn't automatically assume an abduction even if the window was open. You would first think, ok who opened the window? And your first reaction to that would be, did my husband open the window for some reason? And then you would ask your husband, did you open the window? And if your husband said no, I didn't open the window, then you would ask all of the people you knew had been checking the children prior to that. Did you open the window? And if THEY said no, then you would start to try and sort it out. That's human nature. That's human logic. We look for the rational explanations first, not the most outrageous or the worst.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Guest on 27.05.14 18:59

@Portia wrote:After many years on the case, it suddenly dawned on me -as Im sure on many others- that one would expect a distraught & bereft mother to begin with shouting for help, as in " HELP, HELP, HELP ANYONE"

Instead of which: " They've taken Madeleine' or 'they've taken her'

or some other lengthy a/o confusing exclamation


Why not a simple HELP?

Suggestions, anyone?
Quite simple IMO.

Kate fluffed her lines.

She was so fixated on the 'staged abduction' and her role as the 'alarm raiser' that she made a total pigs ear of it by shouting the words 'they've taken her'...

A few vino's prior for some dutch courage and then she forgot what she was supposed to say or told to say. 

All IMO.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Justformaddie on 27.05.14 19:57

Aftermath was the shutters weren't tampered with, window wasn't open, curtains neatly tucked behind bed and chair....... So, the curtains couldn't whoosh, door couldn't  slam then how the hell could she tell right away that maddie had been "taken"? IMO, k should have said something like "g, have a look around outside and I'll double check in here" not, "the fb have taken her" all IMO 
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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by MrsC on 27.05.14 20:30

I don't think many parents would have left the 'crime scene', with two other babies inside,  to go and get help.

Apparently they were very close to the tapas bar (!) - she could have just screamed and everybody would have come running.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by worriedmum on 27.05.14 20:43

@MrsC wrote:I don't think many parents would have left the 'crime scene', with two other babies inside,  to go and get help.

Apparently they were very close to the tapas bar (!) - she could have just screamed and everybody would have come running.
Quite so. Or used the mobile phone which surely must have been in the apartment, because we have been led to believe none of the Tapas friends took them with them to the restaurant.....

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by canada12 on 27.05.14 21:00

@Justformaddie wrote:Aftermath was the shutters weren't tampered with, window wasn't open, curtains neatly tucked behind bed and chair....... So, the curtains couldn't whoosh, door couldn't  slam then how the hell could she tell right away that maddie had been "taken"? IMO, k should have said something like "g, have a look around outside and I'll double check in here" not, "the fb have taken her" all IMO 
 dance

IMO the McCanns may try to claim that yes, the window was open, and yes, the shutter was up and tampered with and no, the curtains weren't tucked behind the bed. Remember - they allowed all and sundry into the room prior to the PJ's arrival. Do we know whether the curtains and shutter were touched or moved by any of these people? Do we know when the PJ pictures were taken?

Otherwise I'm not quite sure how Kate can continually get away with claiming that the shutter was up and the window was open and the curtains were whooshing, when, clearly, as shown by the photos, none of this was the case.

(sorry for changing my posting but I had to check what one of the Tapas friends said about testing the window for herself)

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by PeterMac on 27.05.14 21:45

@canada12 wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:Aftermath was the shutters weren't tampered with, window wasn't open, curtains neatly tucked behind bed and chair....... So, the curtains couldn't whoosh, door couldn't  slam then how the hell could she tell right away that maddie had been "taken"? IMO, k should have said something like "g, have a look around outside and I'll double check in here" not, "the fb have taken her" all IMO 
IMO the McCanns may try to claim that yes, the window was open, and yes, the shutter was up and tampered with and no, the curtains weren't tucked behind the bed. Remember - they allowed all and sundry into the room prior to the PJ's arrival. Do we know whether the curtains and shutter were touched or moved by any of these people? Do we know when the PJ pictures were taken?
Otherwise I'm not quite sure how Kate can continually get away with claiming that the shutter was up and the window was open and the curtains were whooshing, when, clearly, as shown by the photos, none of this was the case.
(sorry for changing my posting but I had to check what one of the Tapas friends said about testing the window for herself)
And don't forget that Kate originally said the curtains were Wide Open.
“At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed, but unlocked, as already said, and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.”  
And the addition of the extraneous detail "while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did" stuffs any idea of claiming it was lost in translation or misunderstood.
The stuff about the curtains being tightly closed came later, perhaps to try to make a better story.
Gerry concurs "the curtains drawn back, "
\Though interestingly I can find no reference to Gerry having changed his stance on the curtains.
So now we have Kate insisting they were tight closed and whooshing and Gerry still stuck with wide open.
Hmmmmm !
Someone has not learned their lies  Lines

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Justformaddie on 27.05.14 21:54

Was it g who checked the shutters? And was it only k fingerprints on the window? 
 help

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by ultimaThule on 27.05.14 22:15

Guest wrote:
@BertySodbuster wrote:So, what are you saying?
That Madeleine didn't die behind the sofa as Snr Amaral believes?
That the evidence is wrong?
I think you'll find that's what the pro's have been saying all along.
No.  The pro's believe everything was planted.  What I am saying is, a child on the sofa, let's say jumping up and down, over excited, who slips and bangs her head on the window ledge, would fall onto the sofa, not behind it.  Especially when the sofa is up against the wall.

Maybe Goncalo Amaral was offering them a parachute, suggesting it was some kind of accident?
 Who knows?

But what I see in these photos, does not paint the official theory of an accident on the sofa.

Imo, taking into account the opinion of Leicestershire Police which at that time coincided with his own, GA offered the McCanns a parachute which wouldn't have opened unless they produced the body to substantiate any claim of accidental death.

I would be most surprised if GA hasn't revised his theory but, of course, it would not be in his best interests to publicise any such revision(s) at this time..

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by canada12 on 27.05.14 22:27

@Justformaddie wrote:Was it g who checked the shutters? And was it only k fingerprints on the window? 
 help

Dianne Webster said she went outside immediately and tried to open the shutters herself, and found it impossible to do.

Which is odd, because wouldn't they have found her fingerprints on the shutter if that was the case?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
- She added that she did not remember too much detail about the scenario that she found in that bedroom, other that what she said above. However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the
window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Justformaddie on 27.05.14 22:37

Yep, plus I always thought dw was the only one who was told to stay at the table with the belongings. The grandparents also being put on the granny train home a day  or two after their arrival 
 Hmm interesting was it the age problem I wonder? IMO

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Justformaddie on 27.05.14 22:44

Also, a group of qualified doctors, who seriously believe there was an abduction and they immediately start prodding with shutters and windows? I'm not smart, but no way would I have let that happen before forensics. IMO

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by ultimaThule on 28.05.14 0:00

As cat has more intelligence in one of his four paws than Gerry McCann has in his entire grey matter, I venture to suggest that you're way smarter than all of the Tapas 9 put together, Jfm, which is something of a backhanded compliment as none of them can be described as being the sharpest tool in the box.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by lj on 28.05.14 4:53

Châtelaine wrote:In that context, it has always puzzled me, why everyone immediately understood that the "her", was Madeleine and not Amelie ...

Good one.

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by lj on 28.05.14 4:58

@Portia wrote:After many years on the case, it suddenly dawned on me -as Im sure on many others- that one would expect a distraught & bereft mother to begin with shouting for help, as in " HELP, HELP, HELP ANYONE"

Instead of which: " They've taken Madeleine' or 'they've taken her'

or some other lengthy a/o confusing exclamation


Why not a simple HELP?

Suggestions, anyone?

We once learned in a self defense class that "help help" is not very successful because people don't want to get involved. Screaming fire would be more effective because people will come and watch, hence you have achieved your goal: that other people come, which would turn off an attacker. We luckily never had to try it out. Maybe Kate had learned to scream that because people also come and look at an abduction?  nah 

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by aiyoyo on 28.05.14 8:48

@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:After many years on the case, it suddenly dawned on me -as Im sure on many others- that one would expect a distraught & bereft mother to begin with shouting for help, as in " HELP, HELP, HELP ANYONE"

Instead of which: " They've taken Madeleine' or 'they've taken her'

or some other lengthy a/o confusing exclamation


Why not a simple HELP?

Suggestions, anyone?

We once learned in a self defense class that "help help" is not very successful because people don't want to get involved. Screaming fire would be more effective because people will come and watch, hence you have achieved your goal: that other people come, which would turn off an attacker. We luckily never had to try it out. Maybe Kate had learned to scream that because people also come and look at an abduction?    nah 

Would be interesting to know what exactly did she scream that sent people rushing to the scene.

Ma.....de......l e ine is GONE! (Since they never call her Maddie [sic])?

I suppose in an emergency situation depending on nature of emergency an injured person is likely to scream/groan in pain to alert to help, while someone finding their child missing from home would call out the child's name repeatedly at the same time and rush around headlessly in panic looking everywhere asking anyone within sight whether they've seen the child or screaming down the phone to summon help.

Does anyone has a clear idea what Kate did exactly in her situation ?


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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by ultimaThule on 28.05.14 9:05

No-one went 'rushing to the scene', aiyoyo, because, having spent "about fifteen seconds" searching the apartment, Kate went "hurtling out through the patio doors and down towards Gerry" and her friends where, as soon as their table was in sight, she "started screaming 'Madeleine's gone!  Someone's taken her!"*

Kate neglects to add that in order to get within sight of the table, she first had to run down the street and go through the Tapas reception area and past the pool before it became visible.  What remarkable restraint that woman has - I'd have been screaming all the way, but if it meant leaving 2 other infants sleeping in a ground floor bedroom giving on to a car park with the window open and curtains whooshing, I'd have done my screaming from the balcony or the front door.

*Exhibit KH1 p.72

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Re: Sofa + accident = death, really?

Post by Justformaddie on 28.05.14 10:04

@ultimaThule wrote:As cat has more intelligence in one of his four paws than Gerry McCann has in his entire grey matter, I venture to suggest that you're way smarter than all of the Tapas 9 put together, Jfm, which is something of a backhanded compliment as none of them can be described as being the sharpest tool in the box.
Ah thanks, might just try for cardiologist, mustn't be that difficult (sniff sniff) yer know  laughat

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