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Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

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Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Guest on 05.10.11 17:11

Joanna Yeates murder trial begins with warning to potential jurors

Judge tells 18 candidates not to research background to trial of Vincent Tabak who is accused of killing architect

Steven Morris
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 4 October 2011 19.54 BST

Joanna Yeates went missing after pre-Christmas drinks with friends near Bristol city centre. Photograph: Avon and Somerset police/PA

Potential jurors in the trial of Vincent Tabak, the man accused of murdering Joanna Yeates, have been warned not to do any background research on the case.

Eighteen possible jurors have been selected to hear the case against Tabak, who is alleged to have murdered landscape architect Yeates, 25, just before Christmas last year.

Twelve of them are due to be sworn in on Wednesday and they have been told that the case may be opened by the prosecution at Bristol crown court on Friday.

The judge, Mr Justice Field, told the potential jurors they now knew who the defendant and the person who died were.

"I must instruct you to avoid undertaking any inquiries at all about the background of this case," he said, also telling them not to look at newspapers reports of the first day's proceedings.

Field added that he did not want the jurors to hunt for old reports about the case by using "computer search engines or any other method," and told them not to discuss the case with anybody at home.

The judge said that the defendant had to be tried only on the evidence that was put before the court. "If other information starts to leak in, that pollutes the system of justice," he said.

Bespectacled Tabak, a 33-year-old engineer, wore a dark suit, shirt and tie. He was told he was entitled to object to any juror. Asked if he understood he replied simply: "I understand."

Before being selected the jurors had answered a series of questions to make sure they were not connected with people or businesses involved in the case.

They were told that they would have to be available for the next four weeks.

Yeates went missing after pre-Christmas drinks with friends near Bristol city centre. After a high-profile search her frozen body was found on a country lane on Christmas morning three miles from her home in Clifton, Bristol.

Tabak is being represented by William Clegg QC. Nigel Lickley QC prosecutes.

The trial continues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/04/joanna-yeates-murder-trial-warning

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by yadda_yadda on 05.10.11 17:16

Judge tells 18 candidates not to research background to trial of Vincent Tabak who is accused of killing architect

Perhaps this is why the UK media don't publish any truthful stuff about the McC's.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by aiyoyo on 06.10.11 4:55

What I really dont understand is how can potential jurors not have heard of the case or some background of the case since they are UK citizens presumably residing in UK before they qualify to be selected as jurors?

The wide covered by media and press with the story dominating front pages and headlines over quite a lengthy period of time would mean that practically every joe public would have heard about the case regardless to what degree.
So imv potential jurors already had preconceived view about the case more or less when they are taken on. Until it's a prerequisite condition that a juror must swear on oath that they'd never heard of or about the case before. Unless they could swear they were totally unaware of such a case, how can they sit on the panel of jurors.

Honestly I dont know the conditions governing the jurors selection but find it hard to believe anyone in these modern days and age would live such a secluded life to the extent they've absolutely no access to newspapers or tv or radio. Even without the mainstream media let's face it community gossips invariably centre round news dominating headlines and it's hard to believe that potential jurors would have no communications with fellow community beings either. A mountain recluse who live in isolation for years may not have heard of it not b/c they have no access to any of the earlier mentioned, rather it would not be their inclination as those are the things they desperately avoid when they chose to isolate themselves in mountain cave.

Apart from recluse I find it not credible that potential jurors have zero pre knowledge of the case.

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JOANNA YEATES: THE TRUTH

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.10.11 13:28


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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 20.10.11 21:46

I haven't caught up with the case today, yet. But I thought the counsel for the defence insulted the intelligence of the jurors and the public yesterday.
A mature intelligent woman "beckoned a stranger" into her house by waving through the kitchen window. A stranger? She'd have to be mad.
When he made a tentative approach based on the idea that she might welcome it (by putting his arm around her and making to kiss her) she let out a piercing scream. Come off it, mature women have better ways of rebutting a normal pass like the one described.
Ten seconds covering her mouth was sufficient to kill her? Like, it was an accident, guv.
I make no comment on Tabak's guilt, which seems to be clear, but I hope if ever I need one, I get a better defence counsel than that.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Guest on 21.10.11 12:19

Nothing about this entire case has felt right to me.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by aiyoyo on 21.10.11 16:56

What a waste of two young talents.

What possesses him to make sexual advances on his neighbour especially since he already had a g/f.

I mean who would have thought it since he was painted as a talented and bright young man with a rosy prospect? Utterly shocking!

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Newintown on 22.10.11 2:38

aiyoyo


The judge said that the defendant had to be tried only on the evidence that was put before the court. "If other information starts to leak in, that pollutes the system of justice," he said.

Bespectacled Tabak, a 33-year-old engineer, wore a dark suit, shirt and tie. He was told he was entitled to object to any juror. Asked if he understood he replied simply: "I understand."

Before being selected the jurors had answered a series of questions to make sure they were not connected with people or businesses involved in the case.


--------------

I think the judge probably meant that for the jurors not to read through old newspaper reports on the crime (which are probably made up accounts of what actually happened) or to visit websites/message boards where people give their own version/opinion of events incase it may sway the jurors away from the evidence that is to be given in Court.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 23.10.11 14:49

So, if I understand you correctly, Newintown, the counsel for the prosecution and that for the defence can collude with each other to present any old load of tosh to the court, excluding what might well be the true version of events.
For instance, they could say that an intelligent young woman might beckon a complete stranger into her flat, and when he interpreted that as opening up the possibility of a pre-Christmas kiss, she would let out such a piercing scream that he was obliged to strangle her.
To the exclusion of any other version.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Newintown on 24.10.11 20:11

@kikoraton wrote:So, if I understand you correctly, Newintown, the counsel for the prosecution and that for the defence can collude with each other to present any old load of tosh to the court, excluding what might well be the true version of events.
For instance, they could say that an intelligent young woman might beckon a complete stranger into her flat, and when he interpreted that as opening up the possibility of a pre-Christmas kiss, she would let out such a piercing scream that he was obliged to strangle her.
To the exclusion of any other version.

I don't understand what you're getting at Kikoraton, perhaps I misread what the judge was suggesting.

My middle name isn't "plank" for nothing!

I don't believe for one moment that Tabak was beckoned into the flat, especially as you say he was a complete stranger. He probably forced his way in or took advantage if her front door was left open for some reason - taking the rubbish out for instance.

As I probably got the wrong end of the stick I won't say any more on this.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 24.10.11 20:51

No, you probably understand better than I. Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. What I must have missed along the way, is the prosecution's version of how Tabak entered the flat. I'd better wait till that part is made clear. Or has it been covered already? Doh!!

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by PeterMac on 25.10.11 9:01

@kikoraton wrote:So, if I understand you correctly, Newintown, the counsel for the prosecution and that for the defence can collude with each other to present any old load of tosh to the court, excluding what might well be the true version of events.
That is pretty well how it happens. The jury have to find on the basis of the evidence with which they are presented. They are not allowed to 'search for the truth'.
The oath they take specifies this.
"I swear by almighty God that I will faithfully try the defendant and give a true verdict according to the evidence." (There are other versions for other faiths)
In other systems, inquisitorial ones, for example in Germany, the whole thing is entirely different. Judges ask questions, clarify points, suggest alternative interpretations, and make their decision in an completely different way.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 25.10.11 11:38

Thank you, PeterMac. Do they have a "people's" jury in Germany?

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by PeterMac on 25.10.11 14:19

@kikoraton wrote:Thank you, PeterMac. Do they have a "people's" jury in Germany?
Not in the same way. There is a penal of judges, for more serious cases 3, whose professional training is simply that - to be a judge. They are not promoted Barristers. They are assisted by "civilian" lay judges, (Schöffen) usually 2 of these, similar in some respects to English Magistrates. Jury trial as we know it was abolished in 1924.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Newintown on 28.10.11 15:24

Thank goodness a guilty verdict for murder has been made.

I've just been hearing on Sky News the horrific details of the violent porn videos Tabak had been looking at before Joanna's murder. If he had got off with a lighter sentence it would have been terrible for her parents and boyfriend if they found out later about Tabak's sordid life.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 28.10.11 15:42

Yes, the defence he put up was plain ridiculous.
Now, why did the A+S Constabulary make such a disgraceful mess of making an arrest, and following the tabloid path of Chris Jeffries? I hope that guy gets zillions in compensation, from the press and the police.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Newintown on 28.10.11 15:54

@kikoraton wrote:Yes, the defence he put up was plain ridiculous.
Now, why did the A+S Constabulary make such a disgraceful mess of making an arrest, and following the tabloid path of Chris Jeffries? I hope that guy gets zillions in compensation, from the press and the police.

I heard on the news that Tabak pointed the finger at Chris Jeffries on a couple of occasions, obviously taking the heat off himself, therefore I suppose the police had to take Jeffries in for questioning. Tabak was a very manipulative and cunning person according to the police so he must have gone to great pains to make sure that Jeffries would look guilty.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Guest on 28.10.11 16:02

28 October 2011 Last updated at 15:23

Vincent Tabak 'viewed violent web porn'

By Chris Kelly

BBC News


Vincent Tabak viewed violent internet pornography depicting men holding women by the neck in the weeks after he killed his Bristol neighbour Jo Yeates, it has emerged.

During legal arguments in his trial, prosecutors revealed videos and pictures found on his laptop and work computer depicted a man holding a woman's neck during sex and images of other women tied up in car boots.

Prosecutors believed that the pornographic films showed why Tabak held Miss Yeates by the neck - which led to her death.

Nigel Lickley QC wanted Tabak's internet usage to be included in the Crown's case against him but this was blocked by Mr Justice Field and the jury was not told about it.

Tabak admitted Miss Yeates's manslaughter but denied murdering her and during his trial at Bristol Crown Court he insisted he had not meant to kill the 25-year-old landscape architect.

In legal arguments without the jury present, Mr Lickley said the pornographic films and images depicted "violent images of women being held by the neck".

He added: "We submit that these images explain why he held Miss Yeates by the neck."

Escort agency

Tabak, the prosecution claimed, favoured films showing submissive women and others being bound and gagged and watched some more than once.

Jo Yeates's disappearance led to a search which ended with her body being found on Christmas Day
But on the eve of the trial, the judge agreed with defence QC William Clegg that the disclosure of Tabak's internet use following Miss Yeates's death could not prove the killing was premeditated.

While Tabak's defence team had said the killing was "a few seconds of madness" and portrayed Tabak as a quiet man who had only had one girlfriend - the police had a different view.

During a business trip in Los Angeles during autumn 2010, the Dutch national contacted an escort agency shortly before withdrawing $200 from a cash machine. He then checked into a different hotel where he was staying under the name of Francis Tabak.


Start Quote
I was invited in, I killed her, I moved her body”
End Quote
Vincent Tabak's defence statement

On his return to a snow-covered England it was a chance encounter - a glance through a kitchen window - which would ultimately lead to Miss Yeates's death.

She and boyfriend Greg Reardon had only recently moved into the neighbouring Clifton flat to Tabak and did not know the Dutch national.

On the night of 17 December, Greg Reardon had gone to visit family in Sheffield while Tabak's girlfriend Tanja Morson had left for a Christmas party in Malmesbury.

Miss Yeates visited the Bristol Ram pub and went home early to bake cakes. Next door, a "bored" Tabak decided he would go to Asda to buy treats.

Tabak claimed he caught Jo Yeates's eye through her kitchen window
As he walked from his flat he passed Miss Yeates's window, where the pair caught each other's eye. Tabak claimed in court that Miss Yeates invited him in.

In the witness box, Tabak claimed a "flirty comment" led to him attempting to kiss Miss Yeates, which caused her to scream. Tabak held his hand over her mouth but when she screamed a second time he strangled her.

Prosecutors told Tabak's trial there was a struggle - a pathologist found 43 separate injuries on Miss Yeates's body.

After strangling Miss Yeates, Tabak put her body in the boot of his car and drove first to Asda and then to remote Longwood Lane where he left her body.

That night, much of the UK had been blanketed in heavy snow and Bristol was no exception. A huge search was launched after Mr Reardon returned and reported Miss Yeates missing but her body went unnoticed under the snow for eight days.

DNA on body

In the following days police arrested Miss Yeates' landlord Christopher Jefferies but he was soon released and was never charged.

And DNA evidence soon led them to Tabak.

Microscopic splatters of blood in the back of the Dutchman's car would go some way towards trapping him but, crucially, DNA on his victim's body would also link the pair.

Jo Yeates and Vincent Tabak lived in two garden flats in Canynge Road, Clifton
Tabak had gone on holiday with his girlfriend to the Netherlands over Christmas and - amid the media storm surrounding the story - she had called Avon and Somerset Police to tell them where they had gone.

Officers visited the pair in Holland where both voluntarily gave DNA samples. They returned to the UK a few days later.

But on the morning of 7 January - weeks after Miss Yeates's body had been found - Tabak searched for "Jo Yeates" on Google, minutes before moving on to the violent pornographic sites.

"Some of those films contained images of a woman again being held by the throat," Mr Lickley told Bristol Crown Court.

And some recovered images showed a petite blonde woman with her top pulled up in a similar fashion to how Miss Yeates was found.

"That suggests he derived sexual pleasure from them," said Mr Lickley.

"He received a text message from his girlfriend but continued watching the pornography."

Refused to comment

Tabak's arrest, on 20 January, took place not in Clifton but a few miles away at the flat of a friend in Cotham.

The weight of evidence had stacked up against him and led to charges and an admission he had killed her.

Under arrest Tabak told police he did not know Miss Yeates and kept replying "no comment" under interview.

His silence even extended to his own defence lawyers.

He accepted during the trial he should have called police but after his arrest, according to Ann Redrop from the Crown Prosecution Service, he gave no reasons for the killing.

"We heard nothing more following his guilty plea to manslaughter until we received a defence case statement which very briefly said 'yes, I was invited in, I killed her, I moved her body'."

"But the why and the wherefore was completely lacking."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-14904647

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Guest on 28.10.11 16:08

28 October 2011 Last updated at 15:55

Vincent Tabak found guilty of Jo Yeates murder


Vincent Tabak has been found guilty of the murder of Bristol landscape architect Jo Yeates and sentenced to a minimum of 20 years in jail.

Miss Yeates, 25, was strangled in her Clifton flat after inviting her 33-year-old neighbour in for drinks on 17 December last year.

The Bristol Crown Court jury came to a majority decision of 10-2.

After he strangled Miss Yeates, Tabak viewed internet pornography depicting violence against women.

On computers recovered from his flat, police found images of men holding their hands around the necks of women during sex and photos of women tied up in the boot of a car.

Mr Justice Field, sentencing Tabak, said: "I think there was a sexual element to this killing."

Miss Yeates's body was found after being hidden under the snow for eight days
He added Tabak had committed "a dreadful, evil act on a vulnerable young woman" and that he intended to go "much further" after attempting to kiss her.

Tabak left Miss Yeates's body on the verge of a country road near Bristol. She was found on Christmas Day.

The killing happened after Miss Yeates made a "flirty comment", Tabak claimed at Bristol Crown Court.

"We were standing close to each other, she invited me in for a drink. She made a flirty comment. I thought she was flirtatious," he said.

But when he went to kiss her she screamed and Tabak claimed he held his hand over her mouth and around her neck in an attempt to silence her.

The prosecution claimed that Miss Yeates would have been in pain and resisted him but Tabak denied this was the case and told the court there was no struggle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15448121

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by PeterMac on 28.10.11 16:52

What is often very interesting is the reaction of the 1 or 2 who wanted to acquit in a majority verdict when the judge reveals the whole truth, with all the stuff the jury were not allowed to hear. It will be interesting to see if any of the reporters watched the jury's reaction when they learned about the violent pornography.

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No jury here.

Post by tigger on 28.10.11 17:03

@PeterMac wrote:What is often very interesting is the reaction of the 1 or 2 who wanted to acquit in a majority verdict when the judge reveals the whole truth, with all the stuff the jury were not allowed to hear. It will be interesting to see if any of the reporters watched the jury's reaction when they learned about the violent pornography.

I'm only too pleased he's getting a long sentence in a British jail. Jail here would be far too comfortable for him. There is no trial by jury in the Netherlands, instead I think it's three judges who have to agree. I didn't know about the pornography - yes, will be interesting to see the reaction of some jurors.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by puzzled on 28.10.11 18:22

@Newintown wrote: Tabak was a very manipulative and cunning person according to the police so he must have gone to great pains to make sure that Jeffries would look guilty.

Yep, another 'white collar' psychopath.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by kikoraton on 28.10.11 19:28

PeterMac wrote:
What is often very interesting is the reaction of the 1 or 2 who wanted to acquit in a majority verdict when the judge reveals the whole truth, with all the stuff the jury were not allowed to hear. It will be interesting to see if any of the reporters watched the jury's reaction when they learned about the violent pornography.

Yes, but look at it from the other angle: those 2 jurors didn't know anything about the porn stuff. They listened to the evidence and made up their minds that VT had no prior intention of murdering Joanne, and probably concluded that things got out of hand. Thus (I guess) they decided it was manslaughter. That's what juries of 12 are for. They were in a minority. We shouldn't blame them for not having intuited about VT's liking for violent porn. We should congratulate them on sticking by their beliefs - it would have been easier for them to go along with the 10 who got it right.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by PeterMac on 28.10.11 21:10

Absolutely correct.
They have to base their decision on what they are told.
Or rather, I should perhaps say, on what the prosecution and the defence and the rules of evidence ALLOW them to be told.
The rules in our peculiar 'adversarial system' very often do not allow the Whole Truth to come out.

And of course, acting as Devil's Advocate, the 10 may have got it wrong.

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Re: Joanna Yeates: THE TRUTH AT LAST (10 October 2011)

Post by Guest on 01.11.11 14:25

Information about other material found on Tabak's computer.

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news/child_porn_found_on_murderer_tabak_s_computer

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