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Gasper Statement Published

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 23.01.10 15:34

Yep, sorry everyone - I nicked it from Pamalam and that's how it came up. Will try and amend

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 23.01.10 15:43

Thanks vaguely, that certainly tested my eyesight, but I managed to read it laughat

Sorry I don't have time to debate more but I am trying to keep in touch until I get back home and have more time. Back Tuesday when the library reopens.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 23.01.10 15:45

Okay, it's bigger now, so you should be able to see it next time you're back.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 23.01.10 17:32

@ufercoffy wrote:
nemesis wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:

Do you work with paedophiles? You seem very knowledgeable about them.

Within my line of work i have had dealings with them.

What line of work is that? Are you a police officer? Prison officer?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 23.01.10 17:52

Who are you a cyber stalker? I give no personal details out i am afraid.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 23.01.10 19:20

nemesis wrote:Who are you a cyber stalker? I give no personal details out i am afraid.

Was that called for? If you'd said you were a prison officer, would that have given me a clue who you are? I don't care who you are, but if you're going to say you deal with paedophiles you might say in what capacity.

That way people can have an idea whether to believe what you say or not.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 23.01.10 19:54

Well i am not a paedophile, i try to understand why they do it.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Avery on 23.01.10 20:00

From my experience drinking with small groups of professionals they sometimes do come out with things they would not in any other setting. A feeling of comfort within a small group of close friends can be jaw loosening.

Paedophiles are very controlling people. They must exert complete control over themselves and their victims in order to escape detection. They chose their victims very carefully and try to establish control over them in other ways before actually engaging in any sexual activity. They chose victims they know won't tell. I have found they often make inappropriate comments of a sexual nature because they don't seem to realize the comments are inappropriate in the circumstances.

There is absolutely nothing in Gerry's past or present to suggest he is a paedophile. His extreme controlling behaviour and outbursts at anyone who questions him about anything do remind me very much of a paedophile I knew quite well.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 23.01.10 20:07

nemesis wrote:Well i am not a paedophile, i try to understand why they do it.

No one said you were a paedophile. Clearly you're not a police officer or prison officer but you try to understand why they do it. So, is it safe you say you research their behaviour? You said you deal with them in your line work, but from what you say you don't really have a 'line of work', you just try to understand them.

Not sure why anyone would want to understand a paedophile if you're not in an authority to do it. Those kind of creatures are best left to the professionals I reckon.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 23.01.10 20:20

@ufercoffy wrote:
nemesis wrote:Well i am not a paedophile, i try to understand why they do it.

No one said you were a paedophile. Clearly you're not a police officer or prison officer but you try to understand why they do it. So, is it safe you say you research their behaviour? You said you deal with them in your line work, but from what you say you don't really have a 'line of work', you just try to understand them.

Not sure why anyone would want to understand a paedophile if you're not in an authority to do it. Those kind of creatures are best left to the professionals I reckon.

No, it is my job to try to understand what makes them do it. If it is an imbalance in their Genes, brain or whatever.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 23.01.10 20:40

nemesis wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:
nemesis wrote:Well i am not a paedophile, i try to understand why they do it.

No one said you were a paedophile. Clearly you're not a police officer or prison officer but you try to understand why they do it. So, is it safe you say you research their behaviour? You said you deal with them in your line work, but from what you say you don't really have a 'line of work', you just try to understand them.

Not sure why anyone would want to understand a paedophile if you're not in an authority to do it. Those kind of creatures are best left to the professionals I reckon.

No, it is my job to try to understand what makes them do it. If it is an imbalance in their Genes, brain or whatever.

And you've got paid for working that out? So, is it an imbalance in their genes, brain or whatever?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 16:56

@Avery wrote:From my experience drinking with small groups of professionals they sometimes do come out with things they would not in any other setting. A feeling of comfort within a small group of close friends can be jaw loosening.

Paedophiles are very controlling people. They must exert complete control over themselves and their victims in order to escape detection. They chose their victims very carefully and try to establish control over them in other ways before actually engaging in any sexual activity. They chose victims they know won't tell. I have found they often make inappropriate comments of a sexual nature because they don't seem to realize the comments are inappropriate in the circumstances.

There is absolutely nothing in Gerry's past or present to suggest he is a paedophile. His extreme controlling behaviour and outbursts at anyone who questions him about anything do remind me very much of a paedophile I knew quite well.



He reminds me of most doctors actually.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 24.01.10 17:51

What are people's views on the delay in relaying those statements?

Was it admin failure as in oversight, or was it people's speculated deviousness on the LP part to sweep it under the carpet? If latter why did they eventually decide to forward it afterall?

Any thoughts?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aliberte2 on 24.01.10 17:56

Does Anyone Know It it's True that Amaral stated in an Interview He got them in May?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 18:08

@aiyoyo wrote:What are people's views on the delay in relaying those statements?

Was it admin failure as in oversight, or was it people's speculated deviousness on the LP part to sweep it under the carpet? If latter why did they eventually decide to forward it afterall?

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that evidentially they are useless. One of them cancels out the other. There would have been a zillion pieces of paper, well meaning phone calls, statements etc that would have got priority and that the policemen involved would have the experience, knowledge and common sense on how to prioritise.

If it was deviousness they'd not have seen the light of day.

Payne, and all members of the party should have been treated as suspects from day one and finding out that he made a crude gesture two years before at a dinner party wouldn't have made an ounce of difference in the investigation.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 24.01.10 18:09

@aliberte2 wrote:Does Anyone Know It it's True that Amaral stated in an Interview He got them in May?


October I think. But maybe he received faxed copies, or an overview of their contents prior to that.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 25.01.10 8:54

@vaguely1 wrote:[br />
My thoughts are that evidentially they are useless. One of them cancels out the other. There would have been a zillion pieces of paper, well meaning phone calls, statements etc that would have got priority and that the policemen involved would have the experience, knowledge and common sense on how to prioritise.

If it was deviousness they'd not have seen the light of day.

Payne, and all members of the party should have been treated as suspects from day one and finding out that he made a crude gesture two years before at a dinner party wouldn't have made an ounce of difference in the investigation.

Thanks.
While I understand that argument, one nagging doubt persists ie why was the real reason for withholding them until months later?

Zillion pieces of paper and plenty experience or not, that's besides the point.
Essentially G's statements were not like some inconsequential sightings or such like; in fact they pertains particulary to a serious allegation about one member of T9. Crucially it was deliberately provided at an early stage (in May) during the investigation where no definitely thesis had yet been formed one way or another, so without knowing what forensic could be thrown up at that stage, (and even assuming LP had checked DP criminal record to be negative) what makes the LP decided it was their rights to determine their the evidential value to the case a(t that early stage ) or its suitability for the primary investigators -this is the pertinent question posed by people.

Now after shelving and from hindsight, people can then deduce the statements were of no evidential value, but at the time they were made, it could have been a touch and go on anything despite the 'no record'. Imo the LP were wrong to withhold the physical copies, especially a decision taken not in consultation with their counterpart.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 25.01.10 10:11

Did they come as a complete surprise in October, or had there been discussion on them with pt before that date, do you know? I'm wondering if there's a link to the non-sharing of information and the leaks coming from the investigation in to the Pt press.

If you look at the headlines that came about after the Pt police for the information, it's apparent that there was an issue with the investigation leaking confidential information.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 25.01.10 14:02

Actually that's not the point. Regardless whether the rumour that pt leaked info has a basis or not, that's moot point.

Besides, that does not make LP decision to hold back info right. No wonder their motive is suspect - there was definitely some kind of deviousness involved in their decision.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 25.01.10 14:25

I'm a loss to see what the deviousness would be given that the statement didn't just disappear.

Above post just me thinking aloud. I just wonder if this isn't linked to data protection concerns or similar, due to the leak in information. I have no idea whether it's possible that they sought advice regarding releasing the information while it was turning up in the press.

Maybe there would be more in the files to suggest this if it was the case.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 25.01.10 17:59

While it didnt disappear, it's evident there was some political or rather bureaucracy intervention involved (sought advice in your term) in the decision to delay until they'd no choice but to yield up. The pertinent point is, were LP within their rights to act that way on matter concerning an ongoing investigation where prime investigator was another authority? If it was solely their investigation hence their remit that's a different issue altogether, but since it was pt, witholding info can be construed and constitues deliberate hindrance.

I stand corrected, but TBH, I wasnt aware of the leak of that particular info either on the internet or on in the public domain. If there had been I would imagine the speculation would have been doing the round of netizens but never the UK public via the mainstream.

Also I would have thought data protection applies to known convicted criminals and not witness's statement pertaining to an ongoing case. Otherwise what's the whole point of investigating a crime if info can be withheld to prevent the solving of it?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 25.01.10 19:17

I have no idea if Leicester had a right to withhold a statement. It seems a strange thing to do, but asked to consider a reason the above are the best I can do

I'm unconvinced it was a hindrance to the investigation, intentional or not, because it doesn't appear to add anything, but obviously that isn't the point.

The investigating force should have had all paperwork.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 25.01.10 19:55

I concur with your last sentence.

You could be right - it might not be an intentional hindrance, but the unknown and unreleased reason do not look good for LP because at that point in time investigating force was not to know the value or otherwise of the statement

One hypothesis posited on fora was that had the PJ got that in proper time (the evidential value itself aside), at least that would have caused/convinced PJ to look into the parents and friends much earlier without having lost all those precious time and in the process plenty evidence which could have been had from different operating style that might very well yield a different outcome from today.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 25.01.10 20:05

Maybe they just do things differently there, but the immediate family would always be treated as suspects in the UK. They may not know they're being treated that way, but all procedure will follow that to ensure that nothing is missed.

I think the scene and the very start of the investigation appear to be lacking, a lot of the talk coming from Amaral appears to me to be protecting his corner.

It's very sad to me that there appear to be so many missed chances.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by aiyoyo on 26.01.10 3:15

I doubt they do things that much differently there, but in that circumstances they were very unfortunate to be thwarted/conned by the misdirection as well as heavy goverment personnel interference - all unprecedented, and in the process lost plenty chances and evidence.

It easy to say they should have known better and not have allowed anything to sidetrack all procedures, nonetheless they'd committed the biggest mistake at the start. Too late now, sad - it's true.

I marvel at their bloody cheeks to continue their charade - sick party and what not!

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