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Gasper Statement Published

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 22.01.10 15:08

@Ruby wrote:Yeah I'd like to know that too simplyme.
Can you provide a link to confirm your claim, Inyx, or was it guesswork?

Count me in on this request. I too would be interested to know who investigated and rejected these two statements.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 15:17

I'm a bit unsure of how you investigate a physical gesture that someone made that long ago.

"Hello Mr Payne, do you remember X years ago rubbing your nipple whilst talking to Gerry McCann"

"Not especially, no"

"Okay sir, thank you"

Where can you go with that?

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 22.01.10 16:12

I do wonder why people try to excuse everything the McCanns and their buddies do.

The gestures, the neglect, the dogs, the death scent, the blood, Goncarlo's book...when you add it all up you see a very nasty picture yet so many people trivialise it.

Poor Madeleine.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 16:16

Yes, poor Madeleine indeed.

How would you investigate a physical gesture made by someone that length of time ago?

Genuine question.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by simplyme on 22.01.10 16:30

Ask CEOPS - that is their area of speciality. Maybe Gerry can ask when he is a guest of theirs saying his little speech.

It really beggars belief this case!

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 22.01.10 16:38

Wonder if he'll get another standing ovation? Shocked

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 16:49

@simplyme wrote:Ask CEOPS - that is their area of speciality. Maybe Gerry can ask when he is a guest of theirs saying his little speech.

It really beggars belief this case!


Eh? You have a husband and wife. Both who see a not uncommon gesture made by the same person. One saw the gesture and remembered it and thought nothing of it and didn't think it was referring to children, the other that saw it and did and wondered if the person making it viewed child pornography.

BUT.....didn't think that enough to contact the police at the time, and was recalling their reactions retrospectively.

What does this have to do with CEOPS? If you phone the police up and tell them you've seen someone making this gesture they wouldn't forward you to CEOPS.

I hope that the police carried out the same check on the people on holiday with Madeleine as they would to the people close to any missing child.

My question is, what investigation do you think would, or could, be carried out on a physical gesture.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Autumn on 22.01.10 17:22

@vaguely1 wrote:
@simplyme wrote:Ask CEOPS - that is their area of speciality. Maybe Gerry can ask when he is a guest of theirs saying his little speech.

It really beggars belief this case!


Eh? You have a husband and wife. Both who see a not uncommon gesture made by the same person. One saw the gesture and remembered it and thought nothing of it and didn't think it was referring to children, the other that saw it and did and wondered if the person making it viewed child pornography.

BUT.....didn't think that enough to contact the police at the time, and was recalling their reactions retrospectively.

What does this have to do with CEOPS? If you phone the police up and tell them you've seen someone making this gesture they wouldn't forward you to CEOPS.

I hope that the police carried out the same check on the people on holiday with Madeleine as they would to the people close to any missing child.


My question is, what investigation do you think would, or could, be carried out on a physical gesture.



Whilst making the gesture, David Payne said 'Maddie would do this' whilst making this gesture. Worryingly, DP repeated the same gesture at a late stage, this time making reference to his own daughter.
Had they been total strangers, the Gaspars may well have reportedd this immediately but, it is a bit more difficult to report people you have been holidaying with and consider friends. As soon as she saw the early reports on TV and saw David Payne in the background, Mrs Gaspar reported her concerns to the police. I think it takes a lot of courage to report those you consider friends, to the police and have the courage of their convictions to make a statement.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 17:27

Whilst making the gesture, David Payne said 'Maddie would do this'


No. That isn't what Mrs Gaspar said. She wasn't certain what he said, and Mr Gaspar didn't think it was related to Madeleine at all.

I'm sorry, but if I believed someone to have paedophile tendencies it wouldn't be difficult for me to report that to the police. It can be done anonymously. And your statement won't be printed in the paper over here.

If you hear someone say that, and see them do that, and you are convinced that they are a paedophile, it's a lot harder to leave the house knowing there are children there than it is to go to the police and voice your knowledge.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 22.01.10 17:41

What makes me laugh is why nobody has questioned why the Gaspers made the statememnt. THEY HEARD NOTHING ONLY GESTURES. He may have itched his nipple, it does happen.

But then some can not try to link paedophilia into this can they

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Ruby on 22.01.10 17:44

"I was sitting between Gerry and David and I think both were talking about Madeleine (...). I remember David saying something to Gerry about "she", meaning Madeleine 'would do this'. While he mentioned the word 'this', David was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple (...). I remember being shocked by that."

Looks accurate to me.
And reprehensible, no matter how you try to normalise it.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by ufercoffy on 22.01.10 17:50

Chapter 9 of Goncarlo's book

MAJORCA, SEPTEMBER 2005

Madeleine McCann is two and a half years old and the twins just a few months when they go on holiday to Majorca with their parents. Three couples and their children go with them: David and Fiona Payne with their one-year-old daughter (Fiona is pregnant with their second child); S. and T., with their two children aged 1 and 3; finally S.G. and K.G., who have a one and a half year old daughter, E. (K.G., is also expecting a child). The trip was organised by David Payne. The latter rented a villa big enough to accommodate all of them.

S.G. got to know Madeleine's mother at university in Dundee, between 1987 and 1992. K.G. met Gerry McCann for the first time at his wedding to Kate in 1998. They become good friends, see each other regularly, spend weekends together and phone each other often.

After dinner on the third or fourth evening in Majorca, the friends are all settled on the patio. They are having a drink and chatting when K.G. witnesses a scene which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children. She is sitting between Gerry McCann and David Payne when she hears the latter ask if she - probably Madeleine - did "that": he then puts a finger in his mouth and begins sucking it while putting it in and out - the sexual connotation is obvious - while with the other hand, he traces small small circles around his nipple in an explicitly provocative way. While K.G., stupefied, regards Gerry and David, an uneasy silences settles around the table. Then they all start chatting again as if nothing happened. K.G. starts to distrust the way David Payne relates to the little ones. On another occasion, she sees David Payne making the same gestures while speaking about his own daughter. At this time, it's the fathers who give the children their baths, but K.G. no longer lets Payne near her daughter. After the holiday, K.G. will only meet the Paynes on one occasion, and she will not speak to them. Over the next two years, relations between K.G., S.G. and the McCanns becomes distanced; they will only see each other now at children's birthday parties.

This witness statement from the couple, S.G. and K.G., is taken by the English police on May 16th, thirteen days after Madeleine's disappearance. That information, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portuguese police. When the Portuguese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements -, they tell the English police, who, even at this point, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject.

It will only be after my removal from the investigation, in October 2007, that this statement will finally be sent to the Portuguese police. Why did the British keep it secret for more than six months? It is all the more surprising that David Payne, who had planned the trip to Majorca - of whom it was known that his behaviour towards the children was, to say the least, questionable -, is the same person who organised the holiday in Portugal, that he is one of those closest to Madeleine and that he is the first friend of the family to have been seen with Kate McCann just after the disappearance (we will talk further about this). He was still present in Vila da Luz when the English police received that witness statement: why wasn't he interviewed immediately? Without doubt, the Portuguese police could have made progress with the investigation thanks to that lead: such behaviour would merit close attention. Were we looking in the right direction? Might we have established a link with the events of May 3rd? It is difficult to seriously doubt these witnesses.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 22.01.10 17:54

You see she is so concerned about the safety of her daughter and other children, SHE DID NOT EVE REPORT IT TO THE POLICE WHICH MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DONE IF IT HAPPENED.

The words I THINK, and saying SOMETHING LIKE and only mentioning SHE,how did she know it meant Madeleine.

Sorry the Gaspers were after their 15 minutes of fame.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 18:06

Not sure it's fair to say she wanted fame.

I don't think her statement (or the amount of times it's been re posted since) was made with malice.

I think she probably thought she was doing the right thing.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 22.01.10 18:08

Ok fair enough, BUT because it is littered with I think and something likes, how the hell did Amaral take it seriously. How the hell did he make Inspector. Maybe it is true what is coming out about him.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Ruby on 22.01.10 20:15

Don't try to shift the blame nemesis Mrs Gaspar cannot be criticised as she did the right thing in going to the police - even if she could have done it sooner.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by simplyme on 22.01.10 23:06

And I for one totally support Amaral - at least he did try to look for Madeleine and I believe he would have resolved this case if he had stayed in charge.

The McCann's never looked. They never sold their big house to donate the money to help find her. Kate never answered 47 questions..... They set up a private 'fund' to beg money from pensioners and kids and for what? To pay their mortgage and put them up in 4* hotels and give them the money to sue all in sundry

I could go on and on but we all know the arguments.

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The Gaspars' statement isn't the only link to paedophilia in this case

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.01.10 23:18

Murat couldn't explain why there was encrypted material on his computer - he even said he had 'no idea' it was on there. That's beside his visiting the highly explicit 'Redclouds' porno site a number of times each week.

Sergei Malinka had to wipe his entire hard drive.

And from Day 1 the McCanns' cry was that Madeleine was 'abducted by a paedophile/gang of paedophiles'.

Yvonne Martin, a child care social worker, thought she recognised Dr David Payne as someone on the Sex Offenders' Register.

The men from Jim Gamble's CEOP were there within 6 days to help and advise in the 'search'.

It's all very odd.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Pascal on 22.01.10 23:37

What is Redclouds?

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More about Redclouds

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.01.10 23:45

@Pascal wrote:What is Redclouds?
In his police statement, Robert Murat said he visited the 'Redclouds' porno site, 'but not every day'.

It's a site where people post the most graphic and explicit pornographic videos and I think couples can submit their own videos, rather like people can submit video clips to YouTube.

I would rather not say any more.

You can visit the site if you really want to see what turned Murat on.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by Pascal on 22.01.10 23:54

I don't want to know thanks. Consenting adults though??

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by vaguely1 on 22.01.10 23:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:Murat couldn't explain why there was encrypted material on his computer - he even said he had 'no idea' it was on there. That's beside his visiting the highly explicit 'Redclouds' porno site a number of times each week.

Sergei Malinka had to wipe his entire hard drive.

And from Day 1 the McCanns' cry was that Madeleine was 'abducted by a paedophile/gang of paedophiles'.

Yvonne Martin, a child care social worker, thought she recognised Dr David Payne as someone on the Sex Offenders' Register.

The men from Jim Gamble's CEOP were there within 6 days to help and advise in the 'search'.

It's all very odd.



Can you clarify whether that;'s what she said, or whether she said she thought she had come across him in the course of her work.

If he was on the sex offenders register in relation to a social worker knowing about it then he wouldn't be living in a house with a young child.

re Murat, he's a grown man who visits porn sites on the internet.......I'm not seeing how that is relevant, or even vaguely unusual.

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Yvonne Martin's statement

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.01.10 0:06

@vaguely1 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:Murat couldn't explain why there was encrypted material on his computer - he even said he had 'no idea' it was on there. That's beside his visiting the highly explicit 'Redclouds' porno site a number of times each week.

Sergei Malinka had to wipe his entire hard drive.

And from Day 1 the McCanns' cry was that Madeleine was 'abducted by a paedophile/gang of paedophiles'.

Yvonne Martin, a child care social worker, thought she recognised Dr David Payne as someone on the Sex Offenders' Register.

The men from Jim Gamble's CEOP were there within 6 days to help and advise in the 'search'.

It's all very odd.
Can you clarify whether that's what she said, or whether she said she thought she had come across him in the course of her work.

If he was on the sex offenders register in relation to a social worker knowing about it then he wouldn't be living in a house with a young child.

re Murat, he's a grown man who visits porn sites on the internet...I'm not seeing how that is relevant, or even vaguely unusual.
I don't think Yvonne Martin did use those words, but this is certainly in one of her written statements:

• She declares that one of her principal claims when she wrote the anonymous letter is that the British police checked paedophile registers or child abusers and if David Payne was on that list. And nothing more was said…

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by marigold on 23.01.10 0:26

[quote="nemesis"]What makes me laugh is why nobody has questioned why the Gaspers made the statememnt. THEY HEARD NOTHING ONLY GESTURES. He may have itched his nipple, it does happen.

But then some can not try to link paedophilia into this can they[/quote

More excuses for very worrying behaviour. Dr Gaspar was clearly very concerned, as any right minded person would be on seeing this gesture related to a child. Not just once but twice. The second time was when he was talking about HIS OWN DAUGHTER. You don't have to HEAR what is being said; this crude gesture about a little girl says it all. He was talking to Gerry so must have been confident that Gerry was accepting of it. No wonder the table fell silent when they saw Dr.Gaspar's horrified expression. By the way, Mr.Gaspar did NOT say Payne wasn't referring to Madeleine the first time Payne 'gestured'; he said he wasn't sure.

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Re: Gasper Statement Published

Post by nemesis/muratfan on 23.01.10 0:30

Tony, what is the relevance of someone visiting a pornographic site where consenting adults can post?
It is not a bestiality website as someone have claimed before on various hate sites. I would say millions of people in this country visit pornographic sites for themselves. Does that mean they are all paedophiles and such?

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