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The grey stone slab

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by kimHager on 22.02.14 22:59

A vision yes but I think a real one. U never say mottled and be that emotional.. That's what got me... The dream was so emotional to me that's how it was and I think she needed to get it out. I believe Kate experienced this.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Woofer on 22.02.14 23:43

Maybe she had been reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - there is a grey stone slab in that.

Chapter 12: Peter's First Battle
While Edmund continues his journey with the White Witch and the Dwarf, Mr. and Mrs. Beaver and the children walk in the direction of the eastern sea, enjoying the warm weather. They delight in the coming of spring, which feels like "a delicious dream." Finally, the climb a hill and reach a green, open clearing. In the distance, the sea twinkles. In the middle of this clearing lies the Stone Table, a slab of grey stone inlaid with strange lines and letters and set upon four upright stones. Music is playing, and a pavilion tent has been pitched.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by kimHager on 23.02.14 0:33

LOL woofer maybe that and 14 bottles of booze she became the white witch for a night?
I dunno something definitely ain't right with her

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Julchen on 23.02.14 10:22

Has anyone looked into all post mortems KM was ever involved in (if at all...)?
Of course, she may have as a student (we all had to) but during her professional time? Her saying she did is one thing, what do the records say?

Reading her "vision" the first word that sprang into my mind was definitely altar. Being a (ex) Catholic myself I am quite familiar with catholic "altar fixation".  Plus another story came up in my mind, the one about this sect in America with this leader abusing girls/women on this altar like bed.

The bruises: the lower ones (wrists etc.) may well be self-inflicted (at least it is practically possible), but what about the ones near the shoulders? You'd have to throw yourself against walls, fall down stairs etc. to "manage" to self-inflict these bruises.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by sami on 23.02.14 11:06

Kate's phone call about her dream was to R Pavia, whilst Gerry was away.  I have wondered if there was a little bit of "my husband doesn't understand me" going on and Kate hoped Pavia would go rushing round to comfort 
take her statement.  


I have never understood the sheer hatred displayed towards him in her book.  Hell hath no fury as they say.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Woofer on 23.02.14 12:17

@Julchen wrote:Reading her "vision" the first word that sprang into my mind was definitely altar. Being a (ex) Catholic myself I am quite familiar with catholic "altar fixation".  Plus another story came up in my mind, the one about this sect in America with this leader abusing girls/women on this altar like bed.

Jule


Interesting Jule.  It no wonder people get suspicious of the event that took place in PdL - there`s quite a few occult links.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by ultimaThule on 23.02.14 12:30

@sami wrote:Kate's phone call about her dream was to R Pavia, whilst Gerry was away.  I have wondered if there was a little bit of "my husband doesn't understand me" going on and Kate hoped Pavia would go rushing round to comfort 
take her statement.  


I have never understood the sheer hatred displayed towards him in her book.  Hell hath no fury as they say.
I suspect that anyone married to the wee one, and subject to his boorish ways, would seek relief by way of extracurricular romantic diversion from time to time, sami.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Guest on 23.02.14 12:57

If you threw a body down a cliff, thinking it would hit the water below and be sucked into the Ocean forever, and on inspection afterward you discovered you might have misjudged, and had thrown the body down when the tide was out, and the body could well have ended up on the rocks below; could you not call such a rock a slab?

KH could have dreamt of a worst case scenario she heard discussed after the fact

Also remember the beach visit of GM and Michael Right/Jon Corner (?) to the foot of the Roca Negra where they were photographed texting
When asked for his opinion on these activities, dr Amaral just said he thought they were not there to collect crabs

Could it be that while Smithman toted around a live Ella as a diversion, somebody else took a hitherto unrecovered car and threw little Maddie over the side somewhere?

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Woofer on 23.02.14 13:28

Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Guest on 23.02.14 17:50

@Woofer wrote:Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.

Maybe not

But a panicking child-abuser/killer might, in order for one or more heinous deeds to remain undetected;

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Hobs on 23.02.14 18:41

@Woofer wrote:Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.


They have done far worse even to dismemberment and scattering the remains over a wide area.

Do not say no parent could do this or would do that, If they can abuse and kill their on child or children they can do horrible things to the remains in order to escape justice.

the same with all those who say they couldn't have done it their guilt would be on their faces and they could never act normally straight afterwards.

how many murder cases have we seen where the killer has carried on life as normal, epecially in spousal homicides where they clain their spouse has run away.


Simply because we, ourselves couldn't contemplate acting a certain way if we did the crime or a loved one did it, doesn't mean we wouldn't should it come to pass.

Guilt can make people act in all sorts of ways expected and unexpected, however, they will leak marbles.
The police, body language experts and  statement analysts all know this and they know what to expect from an innocent person.
The guilty will act in unexpected ways, will say the unexpected and this leads investigators to the truth and eventually, we hope, justice.
As with oj simpson and casey anthpny you cannot control a jury that doesn't care or who wants to make a name for themselves.

Innocent people act a certain expected way.

guilty people act a certain expected way

 they are mutually exclusive

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Woofer on 23.02.14 18:58

Oh dear Hobs - that`s awful, but don`t think I`ll ever become hardened to that fact.

I`d rather go to prison if I was guilty because I would deserve it. IMO it would be more traumatic to be free and carry on living life pretending I was innocent than it would to be punished.




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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by roy rovers on 23.02.14 19:33

@Woofer wrote:Maybe she had been reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - there is a grey stone slab in that.

Chapter 12: Peter's First Battle
While Edmund continues his journey with the White Witch and the Dwarf, Mr. and Mrs. Beaver and the children walk in the direction of the eastern sea, enjoying the warm weather. They delight in the coming of spring, which feels like "a delicious dream." Finally, the climb a hill and reach a green, open clearing. In the distance, the sea twinkles. In the middle of this clearing lies the Stone Table, a slab of grey stone inlaid with strange lines and letters and set upon four upright stones. Music is playing, and a pavilion tent has been pitched.

Or the ending of Tess of the D'Urbervilles by Thomas Hardy when Tess flees across Salisbury Plain with Angel Clare after killing Alex D'Urberville and falls asleep on the alter at Stonehenge:

"It is Stonehenge!" said Clare.

"The heathen temple, you mean?"

"Yes. Older than the centuries; older than the d'Urbervilles! Well, what shall we do, darling? We may find shelter further on."

But Tess, really tired by this time, flung herself upon an oblong slab that lay close at hand, and was sheltered from the wind by a pillar. Owing to the action of the sun during the preceding day the stone was warm and dry, in comforting contrast to the rough and chill grass around, which had damped her skirts and shoes.

"I don't want to go any further, Angel," she said, stretching out her hand for his. "Can't we bide here?"

"I fear not. This spot is visible for miles by day, although it does not seem so now."

"One of my mother's people was a shepherd hereabouts, now I think of it. And you used to say at Talbothays that I was a heathen. So now I am at home."

He knelt down beside her outstretched form, and put his lips upon hers.

"Sleepy are you, dear? I think you are lying on an altar."

"I like very much to be here," she murmured. "It is so solemn and lonely--after my great happiness--with nothing but the sky above my face. it seems as if there were no folk in the world but we two; and I wish there were not--except 'Liza-Lu."

Clare though she might as well rest here till it should get a little lighter, and he flung his overcoat upon her, and sat down by her side.

"Angel, if anything happens to me, will you watch over 'Liza-Lu for my sake?" she asked, when they had listened a long time to the wind among the pillars.

"I will."

"She is so good and simple and pure. O, Angel--I wish you would marry her if you lose me, as you will do shortly. O, if you would!"

"If I lose you I lose all! And she is my sister-in-law."

"That's nothing, dearest. People marry sister-laws continually about Marlott; and 'Liza-Lu is so gentle and sweet, and she is growing so beautiful. O, I could share you with her willingly when we are spirits! If you would train her and teach her, Angel, and bring her up for your own self! ... She had all the best of me without the bad of me; and if she were to become yours it would almost seem as if death had not divided us.... Well, I have said it. I won't mention it again."

She ceased, and he fell into thought. In the far north-east sky he could see between the pillars a level streak of light. The uniform concavity of black cloud was lifting bodily like the lid of a pot, letting in at the earth's edge the coming day, against which the towering monoliths and trilithons began to be blackly defined.

"Did they sacrifice to God here?" asked she.

"No," said he.

"Who to?"

"I believe to the sun. That lofty stone set away by itself is in the direction of the sun, which will presently rise behind it."

"This reminds me, dear," she said. "You remember you never would interfere with any belief of mine before we were married? But I knew your mind all the same, and I thought as you thought--not from any reasons of my own, but because you thought so. Tell me now, Angel, do you think we shall meet again after we are dead? I want to know."

He kissed her to avoid a reply at such a time.

"O, Angel--I fear that means no!" said she, with a suppressed sob. "And I wanted so to see you again-- so much, so much! What--not even you and I, Angel, who love each other so well?"

Like a greater than himself, to the critical question at the critical time he did not answer; and they were again silent. In a minute or two her breathing became more regular, her clasp of his hand relaxed, and she fell asleep. The band of silver paleness along the east horizon made even the distant parts of the Great Plain appear dark and near; and the whole enormous landscape bore that impress of reserve, taciturnity, and hesitation which is usual just before day. The eastward pillars and their architraves stood up blackly against the light, and the great flame-shaped Sun-stone beyond them; and the Stone of Sacrifice midway. Presently the night wind died out, and the quivering little pools in the cup-like hollows of the stones lay still. At the same time something seemed to move on the verge of the dip eastward--a mere dot. It was the head of a man approaching them from the hollow beyond the Sun-stone. Clare wished they had gone onward, but in the circumstances decided to remain quiet. The figure came straight towards the circle of pillars in which they were.

He heard something behind him, the brush of feet. Turning, he saw over the prostrate columns another figure; then before he was aware, another was at hand on the right, under a trilithon, and another on the left. The dawn shone full on the front of the man westward, and Clare could discern from this that he was tall, and walked as if trained. They all closed in with evident purpose. Her story then was true! Springing to his feet, he looked around for a weapon, loose stone, means of escape, anything. By this time the nearest man was upon him.

"It is no use, sir," he said. "There are sixteen of us on the Plain, and the whole country is reared."

"Let her finish her sleep!" he implored in a whisper of the men as they gathered round.

When they saw where she lay, which they had not done till then, they showed no objection, and stood watching her, as still as the pillars around. He went to the stone and bent over her, holding one poor little hand; her breathing now was quick and small, like that of a lesser creature than a woman. All waited in the growing light, their faces and hands as if they were silvered, the remainder of their figures dark, the stones glistening green-gray, the Plain still a mass of shade. Soon the light was strong, and a ray shone upon her unconscious form, peering under her eyelids and waking her.

"What is it, Angel?" she said, starting up. "Have they come for me?"

"Yes, dearest," he said. "They have come."

"It is as it should be," she murmured. "Angel, I am almost glad--yes, glad! This happiness could not have lasted. It was too much. I have had enough; and now I shall not live for you to despise me!"

She stood up, shook herself, and went forward, neither of the men having moved.

"I am ready," she said quietly.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 23.02.14 20:49

I always took the description of the 'grey stone slab' to be a standard writing technique.  The qualities of the 'grey stone slab' can describe the qualities of a dead body - something that is lifeless, hard, and cold - which is a little trick writers use to reinforce the scene that they're drawing.  Could have been added by the ghost writer that I strongly suspect assisted in the writing of Kate's book.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Julchen on 23.02.14 21:25

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I always took the description of the 'grey stone slab' to be a standard writing technique.  The qualities of the 'grey stone slab' can describe the qualities of a dead body - something that is lifeless, hard, and cold - which is a little trick writers use to reinforce the scene that they're drawing.  Could have been added by the ghost writer that I strongly suspect assisted in the writing of Kate's book.

Dangerous bit of ghost writing, I'd say.
Someone important might develop similar thoughts to us....

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by kimHager on 18.09.14 16:50

A grey stone slab....now I'm thinking about cemetery crypt are there any there in Luz? Idk if everyone is buried below ground here they have those walk in crypts with the grey slabs

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Woofer on 19.09.14 10:55

@kimHager wrote:A grey stone slab....now I'm thinking about cemetery crypt are there any there in Luz? Idk if everyone is buried below ground here they have those walk in crypts with the grey slabs

Maybe she`d been reading too many Dennis Wheatley black arts novels - sounds more like a dream of a temple setting.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by cloak'ndagger on 19.09.14 11:12

@Hobs wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.


They have done far worse even to dismemberment and scattering the remains over a wide area.

Do not say no parent could do this or would do that, If they can abuse and kill their on child or children they can do horrible things to the remains in order to escape justice.

the same with all those who say they couldn't have done it their guilt would be on their faces and they could never act normally straight afterwards.

how many murder cases have we seen where the killer has carried on life as normal, epecially in spousal homicides where they clain their spouse has run away.


Simply because we, ourselves couldn't contemplate acting a certain way if we did the crime or a loved one did it, doesn't mean we wouldn't should it come to pass.

Guilt can make people act in all sorts of ways expected and unexpected, however, they will leak marbles.
The police, body language experts and  statement analysts all know this and they know what to expect from an innocent person.
The guilty will act in unexpected ways, will say the unexpected and this leads investigators to the truth and eventually, we hope, justice.
As with oj simpson and casey anthpny you cannot control a jury that doesn't care or who wants to make a name for themselves.

Innocent people act a certain expected way.

guilty people act a certain expected way

 they are mutually exclusive

So true Hobs. I go crazy when I see members saying that Maddie would have had some kind of burial. The McCanns would have disposed of the child in the most efficient way possible. If that was to feed the cadaver to the pigs then so be it.

Why would they show consideration for their dead child when they showed no such consideration for her when she was alive?

Have a look at the photos of Maddie in the public domain . I would not like to see the ones they kept back for fear of causing offence to the general public..

They are not normal people and not normal parents. Nothing they have done or said comes within the boundaries of normality. Of course we would have acted differently. The bizarre behaviour of the McCanns is probably why so many people continue to remain captivated by this case.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by bobbin on 19.09.14 12:42

@cloak'ndagger wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.


They have done far worse even to dismemberment and scattering the remains over a wide area.

Do not say no parent could do this or would do that, If they can abuse and kill their on child or children they can do horrible things to the remains in order to escape justice.

the same with all those who say they couldn't have done it their guilt would be on their faces and they could never act normally straight afterwards.

how many murder cases have we seen where the killer has carried on life as normal, epecially in spousal homicides where they clain their spouse has run away.


Simply because we, ourselves couldn't contemplate acting a certain way if we did the crime or a loved one did it, doesn't mean we wouldn't should it come to pass.

Guilt can make people act in all sorts of ways expected and unexpected, however, they will leak marbles.
The police, body language experts and  statement analysts all know this and they know what to expect from an innocent person.
The guilty will act in unexpected ways, will say the unexpected and this leads investigators to the truth and eventually, we hope, justice.
As with oj simpson and casey anthpny you cannot control a jury that doesn't care or who wants to make a name for themselves.

Innocent people act a certain expected way.

guilty people act a certain expected way

 they are mutually exclusive

So true Hobs. I go crazy when I see members saying that Maddie would have had some kind of burial. The McCanns would have disposed of the child in the most efficient way possible. If that was to feed the cadaver to the pigs then so be it.

Why would they show consideration for their dead child when they showed no such consideration for her when she was alive?

Have a look at the photos of Maddie in the public domain . I would not like to see the ones they kept back for fear of causing offence to the general public..

They are not normal people and not normal parents. Nothing they have done or said comes within the boundaries of normality. Of course we would have acted differently. The bizarre behaviour of the McCanns is probably why so many people continue to remain captivated by this case.
With regard to feeding the cadaver to the pigs, I don't know what access there would have been to pigs, but if you were to talk about dogs, wild dogs roaming around in packs, making Kate feel threatened when she ran up to the monument on her own, and reporting in a separate incident that she was bitten on the leg by a dog, just as she was jogging by with Matt, then that would be more reasonable that pigs. It's purported that the Cipriano's however did have access to pigs. All in my opinion only.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by j.rob on 19.09.14 16:09

@jd wrote:
@butterfly23 wrote:...reading the book- i see that a day or 2 after the ''abduction'' kate notices her arms are all briused etc.... & is told that when finding maddie missing she was hitting the veranda or something at some point......never heard anything about this til now-  are there any pics of these bruises- is it truly how she recieved them- who witnessed it happening...? could they have happened some other way ???????????


Those are WHOPPING bruises. On a part of the body that does not bruise easily. I can only really think of one explanation for those, and it's not the one given by Kate. Even if you were hitting or banging a wall or doors or something in frustration/anger, I don't think you would use your wrist. It is a vulnerable area that you tend not to expose.

I wonder when these bruises were sustained and how old they were at the time the photo was taken (was this taken on Friday, the day after the disappearance?)

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by BlueBag on 19.09.14 16:12

Restraint bruises?

Could another pair of hands do that or something more solid?

Handcuffs?

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by j.rob on 19.09.14 16:17

@Woofer wrote:Don`t reckon there was any `throwing` involved Portia. Just my opinion but surely the most despicable people in the world could not do such a thing to their own dead child even if they were responsible for her death.


I don't think they would have been nearly that careless with the concealment and disposal of a dead body, assuming they were in contact with one, that is.

Don't forget what Gerry said: "Find the body and prove we killed her.' And Kate too writes in her book about the Cipriani case that the girl's body was not found. Implying that the convictions secured by Amaral in this case were unsound, partly because a body had not been found.

I think TM were and are pretty confident that Madeleine's body will never be found.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by Nina on 19.09.14 20:21

@j.rob wrote:
@jd wrote:
@butterfly23 wrote:...reading the book- i see that a day or 2 after the ''abduction'' kate notices her arms are all briused etc.... & is told that when finding maddie missing she was hitting the veranda or something at some point......never heard anything about this til now-  are there any pics of these bruises- is it truly how she recieved them- who witnessed it happening...? could they have happened some other way ???????????


Those are WHOPPING bruises. On a part of the body that does not bruise easily. I can only really think of one explanation for those, and it's not the one given by Kate. Even if you were hitting or banging a wall or doors or something in frustration/anger, I don't think you would use your wrist. It is a vulnerable area that you tend not to expose.

I wonder when these bruises were sustained and how old they were at the time the photo was taken (was this taken on Friday, the day after the disappearance?)

Kate McCann is a very thin and boney woman. If she had banged her arms and wrists on anything hard to create bruising like this she would have broken bone/s. Imo these are restraint bruises.

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by BlueBag on 19.09.14 20:25

So... at which point in the official story was she physically and forcefully restrained?

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solved Re: The grey stone slab

Post by lj on 21.09.14 16:23

I can't recall the official story talking about restraint. IIRC the official explanation for the bruises was the "hitting walls and veranda."

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