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GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Shibboleth on 24.09.11 2:41

Stewie wrote:The find the body quote appeared in a lot of the press after the McCann's were safely back in the uk..very odd thing to say if you really believe your daughter was abducted ....

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/justine-mcguiness-and-angus-mcbride-met.html

Not quite right. It appeared immediately after the McCann visit to Huelva, where of course there are lakes of acid. It was not the McCann who said it directly. It was the ubiquitous *source* or *friends* who said that they said this. But they did not deny it.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by dragonfly on 24.09.11 3:14

@Newintown wrote:I did mention a few weeks ago the fact that Madeleine may never have gone to Portugal, now that I see on a post here only 4 boarding passes are in the files makes that even more possible. Nobody followed me up on that although one poster (LG49?) did say that the plane that was on a video showing Madeleine walking up the steps was an internal UK flight, British Midland Airways (BMA) I think, and was not a plane used for longer flights.


Also wasn't it the PJ who said that they were perplexed at Gerry's attitude shortly after Madeleine's disappearance when they were in their office waiting for a telephone call from the supposed abductor or a blackmailer that Gerry was sucking on a lolly and watching football on the computer screen. I couldn't imagine that's the actions of a very worried father knowing that his daughter's abductor could be on the telephone at any minute, more the actions of a father who couldn't really care less and was only going through the motions to fool the police.

but were there not tapas crew in that video with the other kids? Kate said they went to Donegal easter 2007 I think

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 24.09.11 6:37

Actually i just had a thought about if Madeline was ever on that plane to Portugal. Having travelled overseas myself with my child who was 8yrs. old at the time, children have to have a Passport. Surely the police could check that out easily, as the Passport for Madeline would of been checked and stamped when entering another country. That probably should have been the first thing the PJ should have done after Maddie disappeared was to obtain her Passport to check and see if she had entered the country? A Passport would perhaps be more readily available than a boarding pass, depending on whether the McCanns kept their boarding pass stubs or not?

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Xavier on 24.09.11 6:48

@Shibboleth wrote:
Stewie wrote:The find the body quote appeared in a lot of the press after the McCann's were safely back in the uk..very odd thing to say if you really believe your daughter was abducted ....

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/justine-mcguiness-and-angus-mcbride-met.html

Not quite right. It appeared immediately after the McCann visit to Huelva, where of course there are lakes of acid.



My memory must be worse then I thought! Like most people I followed the UK and european press coverage at the time but perhaps not in as much detail as the experts here. So than you shibboleth.



I didn't realise they had said that to the police. It does seem almost like goading, and that is an extremely stupid thing to do.



I also didn't realise there are lakes of acid in Portugal. I was actually in Huelva recently and didn't see anything about these. Are these lakes natural ones or are they industrial pits where toxic waste is disposed of? Is the acid strong enough to dispose of the body of a child? That is an absolutely terrible thought.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by PeterMac on 24.09.11 7:19

@Xavier wrote:
I also didn't realise there are lakes of acid in Portugal. I was actually in Huelva recently and didn't see anything about these. Are these lakes natural ones or are they industrial pits where toxic waste is disposed of? Is the acid strong enough to dispose of the body of a child? That is an absolutely terrible thought.

See http://www.ehu.es/sem/macla_pdf/macla13/Macla13_193.pdf

They are the left overs of the mining industry which flourished round the Rio Tinto. In the one quoted above the pH is 2.2 - 4.5. Very nasty.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Miraflores on 24.09.11 7:45

.....as the Passport for Madeline would of been checked and stamped when entering another country.

Joss, passports aren't usually stamped for travellers within the EU, so it's highly unlikely to have shown anything.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by PeterMac on 24.09.11 9:03

In the photo taken by the PJ of 'Important and valuable objects in perfect alignment', there are only four passports in the stack.
See
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_22_small1.jpg

EDITED TO ADD
Stupid of me not to have realised.
If the abductor wanted to take Madeleine to Barcelona and then to Australia and Morocco and the USA he would have needed her passport, so obviously looked for it in the neat stack. Strange though that the relative said "Nothing of value was taken"

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Guest on 24.09.11 9:19

There's a very interesting topic here called "Trip to Huelva" for recent arrivals who may not have seen it. Dragonfly, as regards the airport footage, the only other tapas crew members there were the Payne family; as somebody pointed out recently, the others travelled from elsewhere. Needless to say, there are doubts about the authenticity of the footage and also of the photos taken in Donegal in April 2007.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 24.09.11 23:21

@Miraflores wrote:
.....as the Passport for Madeline would of been checked and stamped when entering another country.

Joss, passports aren't usually stamped for travellers within the EU, so it's highly unlikely to have shown anything.



Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't really sure what the deal is with Passports from the U.K. to a country like Portugal, and if they would be necessary, but from what i saw from the Pic. that Petermac has posted 4 Passports, hmmm. So they obviously had Passports, but only 4?? Unless they only issued one Passport for both of the twins? Would be interesting to know.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 25.09.11 0:27

[quote="Xavier"]
@Shibboleth wrote:
Stewie wrote:The find the body quote appeared in a lot of the press after the McCann's were safely back in the uk..very odd thing to say if you really believe your daughter was abducted ....



Not quite right. It appeared immediately after the McCann visit to Huelva, where of course there are lakes of acid.



Oh, wow, that is a terrible thought for sure, but who knows really? If the McCanns weren't in denial about the comment of finding Maddie's body and proving that her parents killed her, then anything is a possibility. And because to date there has never been any sign of Maddie in such a long time, no remains ever found, let alone an alive child, one shudders to think. My feeling was maybe they put her in the sea, with the ocean being close by, if they did dispose of her body. It has been done before by criminals, from watching crime shows on the t.v. to dispose of dead bodies, and they have never been found. I watched one where a guy killed a wealthy couple, placed them in a freezer, and then disposed of their bodies in the ocean after taking them out to sea by boat. Those bodies have never been recovered. I think he was a relative of theirs, it was quite a while ago that i watched it on "Forensic Files", a true crime show that is on t.v. here in the States.

Of course the other alternative is that Madeline is being hidden somewhere, as has happened to other missing children, but that is a fairly slim chance of that happening. And then one has to wonder about the dogs alerting to a dead body, and other evidence also.

































I didn't realise they had said that to the police. It does seem almost like goading, and that is an extremely stupid thing to do.



I also didn't realise there are lakes of acid in Portugal. I was actually in Huelva recently and didn't see anything about these. Are these lakes natural ones or are they industrial pits where toxic waste is disposed of? Is the acid strong enough to dispose of the body of a child? That is an absolutely terrible thought.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by PeterMac on 25.09.11 7:28

@Joss wrote:
Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't really sure what the deal is with Passports from the U.K. to a country like Portugal, and if they would be necessary, but from what i saw from the Pic. that Petermac has posted 4 Passports, hmmm. So they obviously had Passports, but only 4?? Unless they only issued one Passport for both of the twins? Would be interesting to know.
No. A British Passport is for one person. The married couple ones disappeared a long time ago, and babies are required to have their own - they cannot travel on their parent's passport as they used to.

(Which left me in the bizarre situation of having to sign a photo of a 1 month old, to say I had known it for at least 5 years ! Such is bureaucracy !)

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by jd on 25.09.11 8:36

In that picture there are 4 passports....Could the police have taken Maddies earlier before taking this picture, or would they have taken all passports that were in the apartment?

Is it possible that because Maddie had disappeared they took her passport straight away, but as the other 4 have not gone missing, there is no need to take theirs?

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Guest on 25.09.11 8:55

Does anyone know if Madeleine's passport was ever found? I have read somewhere here that it doesn't mention her "eye defect" so it must have been?



Considering how often she changed her appearance (sometimes overnight) her photograph must have needed updating a lot more frequently than most people!

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Guest on 25.09.11 11:12

Jean wrote:Does anyone know if Madeleine's passport was ever found? I have read somewhere here that it doesn't mention her "eye defect" so it must have been?



Considering how often she changed her appearance (sometimes overnight) her photograph must have needed updating a lot more frequently than most people!

There is a photocopy of her passport in the pj files:


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_08.jpg

So the police must have had a hold of it at some point. I have also seen in the files copies of Gerry and Kate's passports. Don't think I've seen the twins passport but given that Madeleine has her own from when she was a baby, presumably that means the twins would have one each, therefore should be 5 passports in total..

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Passport queries

Post by Guest on 25.09.11 13:43

Thanks for that Stewie, I thought that I had seen a copy before. As a matter of interest, how often does a child's photo need to be updated? I would have thought that a photo of a baby for a child of nearly four would be unacceptable.



Mind you, the same has been said elsewhere for the photos of Kate and Gerry - they do not conform with the full-faced, non-smiling regulations.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Miraflores on 25.09.11 15:39

Mind you, the same has been said elsewhere for the photos of Kate and
Gerry - they do not conform with the full-faced, non-smiling
regulations.

This isn't true - the regulations for full-faced non-smiling photos were introduced (at the behest of the Americans), after they took out their passports. I know this, my own passport has the same sort of photo, which was deemed perfectly acceptable in 2004. Indeed, we were told to sit slightly sidewaysby professional photographers - more light and shade or some such - which gave a more realistic photo.

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Passport query

Post by Guest on 25.09.11 17:40

Thanks for putting me right on that Miraflores. I've never had a passport hence my mistake. My avatar is a good likeness of me though!

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topic 'another McCann ...

Post by tigger on 25.09.11 20:11

@jd wrote:In that picture there are 4 passports....Could the police have taken Maddies earlier before taking this picture, or would they have taken all passports that were in the apartment?

Is it possible that because Maddie had disappeared they took her passport straight away, but as the other 4 have not gone missing, there is no need to take theirs?

In the second video:
Kate says at 1.15 'that was the April we went to Portugal'. Zaival Beach? Burgau? Is that when she died of fell ill? But they need to have stayed at 5A?
It would fit with the four passports and the four boarding tickets for May (I'm still looking! I'll find them again) probably also with the bagage labels for the 10th april 07. It would fit with the general lack of DNA of Maddie in 5a (cadaver odour lasts for months - interestingly, one of the first things they said re the dogs was that cadaver odour only lasts one month or less?)
Maybe the passport was at home too? Like the photo and they came back together?

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 25.09.11 20:26

Well if the PJ obtained Madeline's Passport then i would think if they were stamped and dated they would know if Madeline had entered the country with her parents and siblings. And from what i know of Passports everyone has to have their own individual one. With children, because they change in looks i am not sure how often that would have to be updated, i guess its variable in different countries, and maybe depending on childrens age?

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 25.09.11 20:40

Does anyone know what the laws are in the U.K. in relation to a missing person case, what the timeline is before they legally or officially declare a person deceased? I think in the States its 7 yrs. I think after that amount of time, it could help bring the family some kind of closure. Not that they would ever give up hope though. Maybe its different for missing children, and there is no timeline with it legally?

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Guest on 25.09.11 20:49

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:In that picture there are 4 passports....Could the police have taken Maddies earlier before taking this picture, or would they have taken all passports that were in the apartment?

Is it possible that because Maddie had disappeared they took her passport straight away, but as the other 4 have not gone missing, there is no need to take theirs?

In the second video:
Kate says at 1.15 'that was the April we went to Portugal'. Zaival Beach? Burgau? Is that when she died of fell ill? But they need to have stayed at 5A?
It would fit with the four passports and the four boarding tickets for May (I'm still looking! I'll find them again) probably also with the bagage labels for the 10th april 07. It would fit with the general lack of DNA of Maddie in 5a (cadaver odour lasts for months - interestingly, one of the first things they said re the dogs was that cadaver odour only lasts one month or less?)
Maybe the passport was at home too? Like the photo and they came back together?

Just been looking at the 10/4/07 luggage labels - thought they might show a previous portugal flight. They don't have a name on them, but do have EMA which is the code for East Midlands Airport . They also have a flight number FR1676. FR is the airline code for Ryanair and found a link which mentions this flight FR1676 as Derry to East Midlands :

http://www.nrn-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5102

So looks like the luggage labels for 10/4/07 related to derry to ema flight... presumably they are in the pj files because they were in the mccann's passports or on their luggage?. ..so this would tend to support an easter visit to ireland..



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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 25.09.11 21:00

candyfloss wrote:GERRY MCCANN UNDESTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

We were in front of the world, portrayed as being guilty. That was certainly the worst moment after we discovered that Madeleine had disappeared Gerry McCann

18th September 2011 By Jonathan Corke


GERRY McCann has revealed how during his darkest days he began to understand why people took their own lives.

The doting dad has been to hell and back since his daughter Madeleine vanished on holiday in Portugal.

Gerry McCann and wife Kate were made official suspects by Portuguese police.

But they were both later cleared and now British officers are studying Portuguese police files in the hope of finding fresh clues about Madeleine.

The couple travelled to Germany last week in a bid to spark new information from German tourists in Portugal at the time.

The couple revealed the anguish of coming under suspicion and the tactics used to try to force them to confess.

In one interview Gerry said he and Kate had been put under “incredible psychological pressure” and had been asked to admit hiding Madeleine’s body.

He said: ‘We were in front of the world, portrayed as being guilty. That was certainly the worst moment after we discovered that Madeleine had disappeared.

“This tactic is used, not only in Portugal, there are such cases in the UK.

“But everybody who uses this tactic and participates has to be clear they can destroy lives.

“I can now understand why people admit to things they haven’t done. I can understand why people kill themselves after such an experience.”

Kate said she believed police were desperate to nail someone for the crime.

She said: “They were very obviously under pressure and could not cope well with this pressure. They had to find a solution.”

In the interview with Stern newspaper Gerry said they deeply regretted leaving Madeleine alone in the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007.

But he said: “At that time we felt incredibly safe. We had dinner about 50 yards from our apartment.”

The couple, who also appeared on the Beckmann TV talk show, are hoping the visit will generate new leads.
The Algarve is a huge draw for German tourists and many also live in and around Praia da Luz.

Kate and Gerry, both 43, from Rothley, Leics, remain hopeful that witnesses will come forward.

Gerry said: “We are confident we will find Madeleine. But every day’s a day too long.”

[url=http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/211513/Gerry-McCann-undestands-why-people-kill-themselves-/
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/211513/Gerry-McCann-undestands-why-people-kill-themselves-/[/quote[/url]]



Some of this makes absolutely no sense! G. McCann states that it was worse after Maddie disappeared to get up in front of the world to stand accused in Maddie's disappearance. What did they expect? It is common for family to be the first suspects in missing child cases, that is a pretty well known fact. Isn't the worst thing in all of this the fact they stupidly left their babies alone in unfamiliar surroundings while they went off by themselves, and that as a consequence their child went missing. Did they think the world would applaud them for their actions? Of course they were going to come up against some gruelling interrogation by the Police, that would par for the course. Surely anything they as adults had to endure would be nowhere near what Madeline may have endured, and if alive is perhaps still enduring.

I guess it really is all about them!

And why would they think of suicide, if there is a chance Maddie could be found? They would want to stay strong for her and the twins, in their ongoing plight to find Madeline.

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by jd on 25.09.11 23:35

@Joss wrote:
Some of this makes absolutely no sense! G. McCann states that it was worse after Maddie disappeared to get up in front of the world to stand accused in Maddie's disappearance. What did they expect? It is common for family to be the first suspects in missing child cases, that is a pretty well known fact. Isn't the worst thing in all of this the fact they stupidly left their babies alone in unfamiliar surroundings while they went off by themselves, and that as a consequence their child went missing. Did they think the world would applaud them for their actions? Of course they were going to come up against some gruelling interrogation by the Police, that would par for the course. Surely anything they as adults had to endure would be nowhere near what Madeline may have endured, and if alive is perhaps still enduring.

I guess it really is all about them!

And why would they think of suicide, if there is a chance Maddie could be found? They would want to stay strong for her and the twins, in their ongoing plight to find Madeline.

Exactly Joss, its all about them...kate and gerry Mccann...please still donate to the charity fund limited company...they'll employ corrupt useless PI's in the name of the 'search'!....and they won't take them to court for deceiving and wasting all the money, nop...they'll go for the internet trolls who express an opinion instead!

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by jd on 25.09.11 23:43

Stewie wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:In that picture there are 4 passports....Could the police have taken Maddies earlier before taking this picture, or would they have taken all passports that were in the apartment?

Is it possible that because Maddie had disappeared they took her passport straight away, but as the other 4 have not gone missing, there is no need to take theirs?

In the second video:
Kate says at 1.15 'that was the April we went to Portugal'. Zaival Beach? Burgau? Is that when she died of fell ill? But they need to have stayed at 5A?
It would fit with the four passports and the four boarding tickets for May (I'm still looking! I'll find them again) probably also with the bagage labels for the 10th april 07. It would fit with the general lack of DNA of Maddie in 5a (cadaver odour lasts for months - interestingly, one of the first things they said re the dogs was that cadaver odour only lasts one month or less?)
Maybe the passport was at home too? Like the photo and they came back together?

Just been looking at the 10/4/07 luggage labels - thought they might show a previous portugal flight. They don't have a name on them, but do have EMA which is the code for East Midlands Airport . They also have a flight number FR1676. FR is the airline code for Ryanair and found a link which mentions this flight FR1676 as Derry to East Midlands :

http://www.nrn-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5102

So looks like the luggage labels for 10/4/07 related to derry to ema flight... presumably they are in the pj files because they were in the mccann's passports or on their luggage?. ..so this would tend to support an easter visit to ireland..



This is a really good find Stewie, well done. Maybe that video was either on the way to the plane at EM or at Derry airport. I agree with what you are saying here, if we can find those 4 boarding passes and the dates they relate to, we could be onto something. I never knew they went to Derry a month prior

Yes, the lack of DNA in 5A does very strongly suggest Maddie was never there. If we are realistic, after 6 days living there, there would be lots of Maddies DNA. Then when questioned, gerry comes out with a ridiculous line that Maddie and the twins shared the same toothbrush. This is total garbage

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Re: GERRY MCCANN UNDERSTANDS WHY PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES

Post by Joss on 26.09.11 0:56

Exactly Joss, its all about them...kate and gerry Mccann...please still donate to the charity fund limited company...they'll employ corrupt useless PI's in the name of the 'search'!....and they won't take them to court for deceiving and wasting all the money, nop...they'll go for the internet trolls who express an opinion instead![/quote]



jd, That's why i don't donate money to any of these people. If a child needs to be found, then it is preferable to donate to the appropriate Police Depts. if Govt. funding is limited in these cases, so the authorities can continue their searches and investigations. From what i have read it is expensive with many man hours etc. to conduct searches. But i would not donate to these people for their personal uses. There are some really worthwhile search groups out there that are legit, but we have to do our homework on them, so that we don't get scammed. There is one here in the States called Equesearch, headed by a man called Tim Miller. They are great in helping to find the missing, and have had some good successes.

The McCanns didn't need people's money, as both are doctors, i'm sure that they had pretty good incomes.

I actually think in America, the family is not encouraged to help search, for obvious reasons, one of them being if they do come across the crime scene, if a crime has been commited. I guess it is best left to the professionals. Not that it would prevent you for always being on the lookout if a loved one was missing.

I must say i have read some of the Pro. McCann forums to get a different perspective, and i always think its funny how they stoop to being downright really rude, insulting , and obnoxious toward others that feel differently. The thing with these Forums is that none of us really know for sure exactly what happened. A lot of us could be right and also we could be wrong. It is after all merely speculation as to what could have happened, from what we have found out about the facts of any given case.

I know Pat Brown has come up against some awful people out there on her opinion of the Profile of the Madeline McCann case. But like everyone else she is just writing about an opinion of hers. That is our right living in a democratic society, and under our constitutional rights. I don't think Pat says it is all fact! Just a what could have happened. It is really very bizarre, how the Mccanns are trying to shut people down for their opinions.

Why the heck don't they just go away then if they don't want public scrutiny, and let the authorities look for Madeline. I'm sure people are sick of the McCanns in the media. I'm sure only Madeline's face needs to be the one that people need to be aware of!

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