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Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Big Vern on 09.09.11 19:24

@Hilary wrote:. If Scotland Yard has been given the go ahead to investigate and not merely review, there is every reason to still hope that the truth will yet leap out from all the confusion, dross and spin which derailed the original investigation.

Amaral has stated today in the Portuguese press that there is nothing for them to find, they have everything on the case they need, all translated into English and have had from the start.
He also states that the UK police arrived at the same conclusion as the PJ.
Finally, he expresses the opinion, and I totally agree with him, that it is all being done by the British for show.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Daisy on 09.09.11 19:45

@Hilary wrote: ...it is both ridiculous and libellous to accuse the
review team of having any interest in being part of a whitewash without
any basis in fact.

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please. Unfounded
mistrust of professional people who are in all likelihood unknown to
the people criticising them here doesn't do the image of this forum any
good at all.

I have to disagree Hilary. It is not ridiculous and definetly not libellous (in what way?) to
speculate this review will end in a whitewash. The facts are: SY (&
other British police forces up & down the country) have already been
involved in numerous cover-ups/whitewashes too numerous for me to list
in fact! Then we have the ongoing saga of the murky Murdoch empire and
the 'interconnectedness' of Scotland Yard and you ask that we have faith?

My mistrust is not unfounded. I believe the opposite to you, that's all. I think it's very naive to have unfounded trust in 'professionals'. I like to think, analyse and use my own logic and sense of reasoning before handing over complete trust. I think the people that are unable to do this, the one's that don't want to question, do the rest of us a great disservice. I could argue, He/She who doesn't question doesn't doesn't do the image of this forum any good at all.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by sharonl on 09.09.11 19:49

@Big Vern wrote:
@Hilary wrote:. If Scotland Yard has been given the go ahead to investigate and not merely review, there is every reason to still hope that the truth will yet leap out from all the confusion, dross and spin which derailed the original investigation.

Amaral has stated today in the Portuguese press that there is nothing for them to find, they have everything on the case they need, all translated into English and have had from the start.
He also states that the UK police arrived at the same conclusion as the PJ.
Finally, he expresses the opinion, and I totally agree with him, that it is all being done by the British for show.

A £3.5M show? at the expense of the taxpayer?

Where has this money really been spent?

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Cheshire Cat on 09.09.11 20:14

@Daisy wrote:
@Hilary wrote: ...it is both ridiculous and libellous to accuse the
review team of having any interest in being part of a whitewash without
any basis in fact.

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please. Unfounded
mistrust of professional people who are in all likelihood unknown to
the people criticising them here doesn't do the image of this forum any
good at all.

I have to disagree Hilary. It is not ridiculous and definetly not libellous (in what way?) to
speculate this review will end in a whitewash. The facts are: SY (&
other British police forces up & down the country) have already been
involved in numerous cover-ups/whitewashes too numerous for me to list
in fact! Then we have the ongoing saga of the murky Murdoch empire and
the 'interconnectedness' of Scotland Yard and you ask that we have faith?

My mistrust is not unfounded. I believe the opposite to you, that's all. I think it's very naive to have unfounded trust in 'professionals'. I like to think, analyse and use my own logic and sense of reasoning before handing over complete trust. I think the people that are unable to do this, the one's that don't want to question, do the rest of us a great disservice. I could argue, He/She who doesn't question doesn't do the image of this forum any good at all.

"To whitewash is a metaphor meaning to gloss over or cover up vices, crimes or scandals or to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data.It is especially used in the context of corporations, governments or other organizations."Wilkipedia

This is what is happening folks! All for show, as it has been from the early hours of 4 May 2007.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.09.11 20:18

@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Hilary wrote: ...it is both ridiculous and libellous to accuse the
review team of having any interest in being part of a whitewash without
any basis in fact.

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please. Unfounded
mistrust of professional people who are in all likelihood unknown to
the people criticising them here doesn't do the image of this forum any
good at all.

I have to disagree Hilary. It is not ridiculous and definetly not libellous (in what way?) to
speculate this review will end in a whitewash. The facts are: SY (&
other British police forces up & down the country) have already been
involved in numerous cover-ups/whitewashes too numerous for me to list
in fact! Then we have the ongoing saga of the murky Murdoch empire and
the 'interconnectedness' of Scotland Yard and you ask that we have faith?

My mistrust is not unfounded. I believe the opposite to you, that's all. I think it's very naive to have unfounded trust in 'professionals'. I like to think, analyse and use my own logic and sense of reasoning before handing over complete trust. I think the people that are unable to do this, the one's that don't want to question, do the rest of us a great disservice. I could argue, He/She who doesn't question doesn't do the image of this forum any good at all.



"To whitewash is a metaphor meaning to gloss over or cover up vices, crimes or scandals or to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data.It is especially used in the context of corporations, governments or other organizations."Wilkipedia

This is what is happening folks! All for show, as it has been from the early hours of 4 May 2007.


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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Gillyspot on 09.09.11 20:30

@Me wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Does this spokesman have an identity or is he yet another McMystery?

It's all Clarence's words.

Mindst you it's a bit rich the Team complaining bitterly of the PJ leaking information on the case back in 2007 then allowing this "unnamed" and mysterious spokesman to do exactly the same 4 years later.

Was not there a McCann "spokesman" (person close to the McCanns, Source, Friend) spouting off right from the off in 2007 anyway. I think the McCanns' used it whenever they thought they were on shaky legal ground so could deny it later if the brown stuff (not Gordon) hit the fan.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Big Vern on 09.09.11 21:14

@Hilary wrote:

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please.

Scotland Yard chief Paul Stephenson stepped down and was then followed out the door 24 hours later by Assistant Commissioner John Yates over corruption and hacking.
The top two cops in the entire force have both had to resign in the last couple of months and you use the word 'integrity'!
Corrupt and bent from top to bottom in my opinion. The days of Dixon of Dock Green are long gone.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by sharonl on 09.09.11 21:38

@Big Vern wrote:
@Hilary wrote:

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please.

Scotland Yard chief Paul Stephenson stepped down and was then followed out the door 24 hours later by Assistant Commissioner John Yates over corruption and hacking.
The top two cops in the entire force have both had to resign in the last couple of months and you use the word 'integrity'!
Corrupt and bent from top to bottom in my opinion. The days of Dixon of Dock Green are long gone.



17 May 2011
Madeleine McCann could be found alive, Britain's most senior police officer has said.
Sir Paul Stephenson said it was right for Scotland Yard to agree to Home Secretary Theresa May's request for help and said there was 'always a chance' that the child could be found alive.
His comments come after the decision to involve the Metropolitan Police was described as a 'ludicrous' move that would use up valuable police resources and deny other victims of crime the chance of justice.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388005/Madeleine-McCann-alive-says-Britains-senior-police-chief.html#ixzz1XUPBWHHk

18 July 2011
The Prime Minister, who has cut short a four-day trade trip to South Africa, and Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner John Yates are both now in the firing line.
Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson fell on his sword last night over links with former News of the World deputy editor Neil Wallis, who was arrested last week, as well as concerns that he accepted free hospitality at a luxury health spa


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015779/Sir-Paul-Stephenson-resigns-phone-hacking-scandal-shifting-spotlight-David-Cameron.html#ixzz1XUPmah82

Surely, you couldn`t blame anyone who was concerned over this.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Big Vern on 09.09.11 21:54

"Sir Paul Stephenson said it was right for Scotland Yard to agree to Home Secretary Theresa May's request for help and said there was 'always a chance' that the child could be found alive" .....So why do the police bother to use cadavar and blood dogs then Paul me old mate?
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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Gillyspot on 10.09.11 1:08

@Big Vern wrote:"Sir Paul Stephenson said it was right for Scotland Yard to agree to Home Secretary Theresa May's request for help and said there was 'always a chance' that the child could be found alive" .....So why do the police bother to use cadavar and blood dogs then Paul me old mate?
wft

Well done Big Vern. I agree totally. Sir Paul Stephenson and his ridiculous comments (well publicised in such relevant tomes as the Sun and the NOTW were all spin) - well how on earth could he know that Madeleine would be found - he hadn't looked at the evidence any more than John Yates had bothered to look into those black bags containing all the hacking evidence. All spin IMO.

I was hopeful when I heard that some SY detectives had travelled to Portugal to speak to PJ then when I heard they were meeting with the McCanns regularly - well brought back bad memories of "Call me Stu" - so B & Q - get a large amount of tubs of whitewash in your stores in London - they could well be selling out soon!)

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by PeterMac on 10.09.11 8:03

Whilst being a professional sceptic, I do not share the outright pessimism of some contributors.
SY "So, could you just run through in your own words how the investigation went."
PJ "Certainly. First they told us the shutters had been broken open. But they hadn't. That was a lie.
Then they said the window had been opened, but the only prints were from Kate.
Then they said the children had been checked every half hour, but we could show that that was also not true. One of the men admitted he did not even look.
Then they mucked up the scene, even through they are professional people and would know how important it was to preserve it.
Then they ..."
SY "Yes, OK. You don't need to go on. I see what you mean. What about later. "
PJ "Well, you sent your top dogs over and they alerted for cadaver scent and blood in precisely the places we might all expect...
And then ..."
SY "Yes, OK. I think we all get the picture. Can you recommend a good tapas bar. Lots to mull over.
As Sherlock Holmes probably did not say, this is a 'A two sardine problem.'




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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Guest on 10.09.11 8:45

At the point Goncalo Amaral left and the investigation was shelved, by his own admission there were still things that needed to be examined. For a start there was this apartment the McCann's were seen going into. Now we have the dubious creche sheets that appear to have been overlooked. Yes, SY must have the evidence that GA suggests they have, but if the picture was not complete when he left, SY still have much to do.

I thoroughly believe they will turn this one over. They have other guests to track down and interview. They need to identify who exactly was involved in the hiring, firing and relocation of various key people. There are even more bank accounts that will need looking into and even more requests to numerous countries for other sources of information. Every single guest on those guest lists, need examining in this way. Now that there is a direct link between one of the guests and the top layer of the Labour Government, this will need the most amount of time to identify if there was any interference and if so, by who?

I can easily see the Conservative Government saving all this up for when a political bombshell will be the most effective to drop. That's what I would do.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by PeterMac on 10.09.11 9:10

Stella wrote: ...
I can easily see the Conservative Government saving all this up for when a political bombshell will be the most effective to drop. That's what I would do.
Which gives us till 7 May 2015. Or some months before for the report and the full horror to sink in.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Guest on 10.09.11 10:52

Madeleine McCann: Three Metropolitan Police In Portugal

MADELEINE McCann: Anorak’s at-a-glance look at Our Maddie in the media:

The BBC:

The Met launched a review of the original investigation in May after a request from Home Secretary Theresa May supported by Prime Minister David Cameron.

Daily Express (front page): “MADELINE – 30 Police In New Hunt”

David Pilditch and Tracey Kandohla report:

A NEW investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was under way last night after senior Scotland Yard detectives flew to Portugal. Officers from a 30-strong squad specially set up to revive the search for Madeleine McCann, who vanished four years ago, met Portuguese authorities for the first time…

Correio de Manha (Portual) says three Met police officers went to Portugal. The meeting was chaired by Pedro do Carmo, head of the PJ.

The Express adds:

The McCanns, of Rothley, Leicestershire, believe vital clues were missed and leads never followed up during the shambolic investigation.

And it was botched. A “family source” says:

“Kate and Gerry believe potentially vital clues were missed in the botched Portuguese investigation and their private eyes are hoping the Met will bring a new perspective to the case, which is being conducted in tandem with Portuguese police. The review is still in its very early stages. Officers are busy going through everything from scratch and analysing it.”

The Correio de Manha features a few words of Goncalo Amaral. He comes across as bitter – although his words are translated by Google and meaning might have been affected:

Gonçalo Amaral – The British can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know they have evidence of what happened – no longer need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere ‘show off’.

- How do you justify these meetings now?
- Just in terms of political image of the British prime minister. Do not come here certainly ask to see a process that, since the first time, they have in England and all translated in English …
- It’s a media maneuver the McCanns?
- I do not know, but now it is the Scotland Yard investigating and no longer pay the detectives, they can return the money of the book.

The McCann’s private detectives are still investigating.

Good news, indeed, that the Metropolitan police and Lee Rainbow are on the case.

The story might yet have a conclusion…

http://www.anorak.co.uk/292845/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-three-metropolitan-police-in-portugal.html/



And this...............

Madeleine McCann: Facing Facts With Lee Rainbow

[snipped]


Skilful

It would seem to be a logical and very good place for any British detective to now begin. Call in the very top man for a chat and seek his opinion on the way the investigation should proceed.

Why? Because that is why Mr Rainbow was paid (by the Home Office which has complied with the Prime Minister’s bidding and requested/ordered/suggested/asked? for the inquiry). Lee Rainbow is recognised as the most skilful and adept adviser the UK has in its armoury.

There’s more: the use of Behavioural Investigative Advisers in serious cases is recommended at all senior detective training courses. Guess who is considered at the very top of the list of advisers? One Lee Rainbow; he wrote the paper.

No PR campaign can ever diminish or cloud that fact. His opinion and views have to be faced and dealt with

http://www.anorak.co.uk/280925/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-facing-facts-with-lee-rainbow.html/



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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Big Vern on 10.09.11 11:38

Hold on, hold on.
This is a Portuguese case and it's in the hands of the PJ....What makes you all think that our plod are doing anything more than looking through the files?....They have no jurisdiction whatsoever to start fresh investigations and carry on as if they were here in the UK surely!

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Guest on 10.09.11 12:24

@Big Vern wrote:Hold on, hold on.
This is a Portuguese case and it's in the hands of the PJ

As far as the disappearence of a child on Portuguese soil is concerned, then yes.

What makes you all think that our plod are doing anything more than looking through the files?....They have no jurisdiction whatsoever to start fresh investigations and carry on as if they were here in the UK surely!

The fund was set up and formerly registered under British laws. The Portuguese have no jurisdiction over a registered British company. If SY are in possession of any material, which according to Goncalo Amaral they are, which suggests that they have received monies under false pretences, then they are duty bound to investigate this and proscute them for major fraud outside of the original Portuguese investigation, I would have thought.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Daisy on 10.09.11 14:29

Reported in todays Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035434/Madeleine-McCann-Scotland-Yard-officers-sent-Portugal-hunt-missing-girl.html

The readers comments make for interesting reading. Just check out the highest rated, seems the pessimism (or should that be realism?) is spreading.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by lj on 10.09.11 16:08

Still a lot of posts from the bleeding heart squad.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Hilary on 10.09.11 18:32

@Big Vern wrote:
@Hilary wrote:

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please.

Scotland Yard chief Paul Stephenson stepped down and was then followed out the door 24 hours later by Assistant Commissioner John Yates over corruption and hacking.
The top two cops in the entire force have both had to resign in the last couple of months and you use the word 'integrity'!
Corrupt and bent from top to bottom in my opinion. The days of Dixon of Dock Green are long gone.

_______

Selective news reading - you seem to have missed the rest of that story, in which they were both cleared of misconduct by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (no doubt the response would be that the IPPC is only into whitewash and conspiracy to shield child-harmers, too ) :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exmet-chiefs-cleared-of-misconduct-2339073.html


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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 10.09.11 18:37

@Hilary wrote:
@Big Vern wrote:
@Hilary wrote:

A bit less negativity, a bit more belief in the integrity of the majority of British police, please.

Scotland Yard chief Paul Stephenson stepped down and was then followed out the door 24 hours later by Assistant Commissioner John Yates over corruption and hacking.
The top two cops in the entire force have both had to resign in the last couple of months and you use the word 'integrity'!
Corrupt and bent from top to bottom in my opinion. The days of Dixon of Dock Green are long gone.

_______

Selective news reading - you seem to have missed the rest of that story, in which they were both cleared of misconduct by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (no doubt the response would be that the IPPC is only into whitewash and conspiracy to shield child-harmers, too ) :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exmet-chiefs-cleared-of-misconduct-2339073.html


I wonder why the two top cops didn't just wait it out then if they knew they would be cleared of misconduct?

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Big Vern on 10.09.11 19:58

@Hilary wrote:"They were both cleared of misconduct by the Independent Police Complaints Commission"


never mind

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Daisy on 10.09.11 20:06

@Big Vern wrote:
@Hilary wrote:"They were both cleared of misconduct by the Independent Police Complaints Commission"




Touche.

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Hilary on 10.09.11 20:11

Well, let's just wait and see what happens - personally see no need to prejudge events, tar everyone with the same brush, and to think the very worst of people...but carry on if that pleases you. :)

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Daisy on 10.09.11 21:53

@lj wrote:Still a lot of posts from the bleeding heart squad.

Very much in the minority though eh?

I like this exchange, good question.

"Some comments seem to have some sort of vested
interest in this case being buried and ignored. They seek to blame the
parents but never a word against the criminals who did this. Very
strange."

- Marie, Lancs, 9/9/2011 13:27

"There was never any proof that "crimimals" were involved. What if she
simply wandered out of the apartment and lost her life through accident?
Who would you blame then?"

- Rob, Epsom, 9/9/2011 15:44
Click to rate Rating 182

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035434/Madeleine-McCann-Scotland-Yard-officers-sent-Portugal-hunt-missing-girl.html#ixzz1XaK391wO

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Re: Scotland Yard are in Portugal - Martin Brunt

Post by Guest on 11.09.11 10:21

@PeterMac wrote:
Stella wrote: ...
I can easily see the Conservative Government saving all this up for when a political bombshell will be the most effective to drop. That's what I would do.
Which gives us till 7 May 2015. Or some months before for the report and the full horror to sink in.

I would make sure that the whole court case and sentencing happened under my watch, to ensure justice was done, but finished around the time the votes counted.

2013, might just be an unlucky year for some..

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