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The Carpenters

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The Carpenters

Post by Guest on 14.08.11 10:01

On the night of the 3rd of May, there is a reservation at the tapas in the name of Carpenter for 2 people. I assume that was for Mr & Mrs Carpenter, minus the two children aged 3 and 4 months.

This is from Stephen Carpenter’s statement of the 21/4/2008 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

DCF: Yes. When I went to the Tapas Bar and was seen there, talking on the Thurday 3rd May we analysed this in more detail because it was obviously more relevant. "The second time I entered the Tapas Bar was on Thursday 3rd May" which ended up being the day that Madeleine disappeared.

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: We arrived at about seven because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children.

SC: Yes

If he took his children, why didn't he book a seat for them?

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Guest on 14.08.11 10:07


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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 14.08.12 19:41

Some observations from Stephen Carpenters RI Statement in April 2008

Robert Murat

SC: We returned to the MW reception [morning of 4th May] where I asked whether there was anything I could do to help so that they would let me know and returned to my apartment by the same route as the previous night. Upon nearing my apartment I heard a male voice coming from the garden next to my apartment.

DCF: This would be the voice of Murat, correct'

SC: Yes. …….. I never saw anyone inside the garden or the house or see anyone leaving until the moment that I heard a voice calling me. Then a voice called me from over the hedge. "What is happening, or what is going on'", I replied that a three year old girl had disappeared, he said "I am going to come round to talk to you" and he did this, walked round to come over towards me and said "I have lived here for fourteen years, I speak Portuguese fluently and I can help to translate", and we introduced ourselves, he told me he was Robert and this was the first time I had seen this man. Robert mentioned that he had a daughter in Norfolk who was the same age as Madeleine, and that is why he was able to understand what they were going through. We walked back along the path that I had taken to Gerry's apartment and I explained that Robert spoke Portuguese fluently, he told Gerry that it was important to have someone who spoke the language so that nothing would be lost in translation.. And that was how Robert Murat was presented as a translator.

DCF: During your conversations with Robert is there anything that you would like to comment on'

SC: Humm, no, its probably nothing relevant, the only thing since all of this happened and from reading the papers, I'm not sure if I am right or wrong, but his involvement in the translations was due to my intervention, clearly it was I who, based upon what he told me, took him to see Gerry, humm..and just that, I do not know whether it was already explained and wasn't published in the papers or I do not know why (inaudible) I think that the reason for his involvement was because of me.


DCF: And you took part in the searches as you have already described. Did you see Kate or Gerald after Madeleine's disappearance'

SC: Yes.

DCF: When'

SC: Hummm, the first time was when I introduced Robert Murat to Gerry, I think that he was alone at that moment...humm, or Kate was there, I'm not sure

3 Tapas members claim to have seen robert murat on the night of 3rd May stating that he seemed to be organising the search with the GNR. The GNR say in their statements robert murat was never there on the night of 3rd May. Steven Carpenter says in effect that robert murat was never there on the night of 3rd May and saying the first time gerry mccann met robert murat was on the morning of the 4th May when he took him to the apartment to introduce him……. Someone is lying blatantly here. Is Redwood and his team investigating who?

----------------------------------------

Tapas Meal - 3rd May 2007

"At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them"

All Tapas members already seated by about 8.30pm? Weren't the Paynes and diane webster late and did not arrive till 9pm? Didn't Russell O'Brien stay in the apartment to look after his sick child until partner/wife jane tanner released him?

"I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children"

…and kate also left the table to check on the kids? Thought the only time she left to check was at 10pm? The Carpenters left the Tapas between 9.15 and 9.30pm

----------------------------------------

Hearing 'Madeleine, Madeleine' at 9.30pm?

SC:"Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. ..............My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance".

DCF: OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'

SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine" and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.
????????

How could his wife hear "Madeleine, Madeleine" when kate mccann did not go to the apartment for at least another 30 minutes later?

----------------------------------------

Surfing Friends

Then you say "I went to the MW reception and I met two of Gerry's surfing friends who told me that Madeleine had been abducted on the previous night, I asked if there was anything I could do to help and I think they were waiting for news from the Portuguese police

Who might the surfing friends be? He never claims to have known MO and ROB before May 3rd so if its them how would he know they surfed?

----------------------------------------

Abduction Theory

DCF: On Saturday morning, the 5th May you spoke to a BBC reporter.

SC: Yes.

DCF: You told them that you remember that some of the reporters were being unfair and incorrect because they were treating the situation as that of a missing child and not of a child whom had been abducted.

SC: Yes.


Pushing through the abduction storyline?

----------------------------------------

Philomena McCann

DCF: Yes, you met Gerry in the swimming pool area on Saturday afternoon, he told you that the fifty year old man had not been taken into consideration, that the Leicestershire police were on their way and you gave him your phone number and returned to England that night.

SC: Yes.

DCF: You certainly followed the events on television.

SC: Yes.

DCF: Humm... afterwards you say that on the 17th May you sent an email to Sky News about the description of an individual aged about fifty, humm.... on the 14th May you saw a report at the end of the news which mentioned that Robert Murat had been named a suspect.

SC: Yes (inaudible) I spoke to a Sky reporter, I think it was Ian Woods, hummm...did I write that down there'

DCF: Its here, yes.

SC: Ah yes, yes and afterwards, humm...with Murat well...I just caught a glimpse of him on TV, it was rather my wife who phoned Philomena afterwards who then suggested that we contact the police support service.

DCF: Yes.


How did he get philomena mccanns mobile number? he only gave his to gerry mccann

----------------------------------------

Seeing Maddie

Did you see them with Madeleine and the other two children'
.
SC: Humm...I don't remember what I said in my statement, I am not sure about this because when I think about the past, and I know that he was playing tennis and I imagine something different, that's why...humm I can't specify hours and dates.

DCF: Ok. If you can remember the occasion upon which you saw them, how was the children's behaviour'.

SC: Humm. I can't reply because I was not concentrating on this type of thing, that's why...hmmm, I cannot even reply to this.

DCF: No, but I was thinking from the point of view of common sense, after the disappearance of Madeleine, any doubt that you could have had.

SC: Oh, after the disappearance'

DCF: No, what I was thinking here was that after her disappearance, you would probably have reflected upon whether you saw anything.

SC: Hummm... I remember talking to Gerry, because I had to go and fetch I*** and they were playing in the small garden and he was (inaudible), I***** and I thought it was Maddie, I am not absolutely sure but, he seemed to me to be a decent type, a good father, affectionate with his children, very easy to talk to, very good with the children, with a comfortable manner even when talking to I**** about little things, completely dedicated to the children.


So doesn't know if he saw Maddie. 'thinks' maybe but changes in answering the question 'if he saw her' to what type of father gerry mccann was. This despite only playing tennis with him on 3 occasions and briefly past them by during the rest of the week and once on picking up the kids from Creche. The mccanns kids were not at the Tapas the night of the 3rd either, so when was he really able to assess and make such an glowing reference on gerry mccanns parenting skills and the type of father he was?

----------------------------------------

Car

DCF: Did you see either of them in a car'

SC: See either of whom'

DCF: I think this refers to the McCann family, did you ever see them in a car'

SC: Humm, during that week'

DCF: Mmm, mmm.

SC: I think not.


'I think' sounds like he is not sure what he should be saying. An affirmative 'yes' or 'no would suffice to a rather simple question.... not 'I think'

----------------------------------------

Tennis-Afternoon 3rd May

DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry on the Thursday 3rd May, obviously this was the day when Madeleine disappeared already mentioned in your statement.

SC: Yes, in the restaurant, yes.

DCF: Do you remember if you saw them before the evening'

SC: Humm... I think that we played tennis during the afternoon on Thursday.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I'm not certain, I remember that it was on Thursday that there were four individuals with whom we used to share the tennis courts, and I think that I mentioned this in my statement, I would say that it was on Thursday that we played tennis and I think that this was what we talked about in the Tapas bar.

DCF: OK, do you have any idea of what time you played tennis with Gerry?

SC: Humm... from two to four or from two until any time in the afternoon, I remember it coincided with leaving the kids in the creche and picking them up.


So he starts the interview by saying he played tennis with the mccanns on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday but later it is now Thursday too! He 'thinks'.....Thinking what he should be saying to fit the mccann story I think. gerry mccann states that he was playing with kate mccann that afternoon from 15.00HR, and then had an hours lesson with the tennis instructor....Someone is lying here

DCF: And you saw both Gerry and Kate at the Tapas Bar on Sunday and afterwards on Thursday in the evening, apart from these occasions you just saw them in passing at the resort and you had no opportunity to get to know Kate'

SC: No.


----------------------------------------

I wonder if Carpenter was asked if he knew the Irwins in his original statement? Its interesting that the Carpenters and Edmunds were at the Tapas with their kids, didn't the Tapas 9 ever feel a little bit guilty that they never took theirs even once to the Tapas Bar and had them all shipped off to bed by 7.30pm every single night?


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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 14.08.12 21:01

So Edmunds had already made early plans to flee PDL on the 4th May.......

DCF: We arrived at about seven [Tapas Bar] because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children.

SC: Yes
.
DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist



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Re: The Carpenters

Post by tigger on 15.08.12 9:00

thinking
Very interesting person Mr. Carpenter, Maintenance technician - of what? Surely not washing machines!

He is very clear that he and only he introduced Murat to Gerry. Murat made himself known to SC and volunteered his services.
Gerry must have taken to him to give him telephone numbers of Philomena. (By the way is there a topic somewhere on the family holiday in Turkey which wasn't cancelled and took place some weeks after 3/5? - Someone also PM'd me once on having seen a shot of the whole family soon after 3/5 sitting on the patio in OC, sunbathing and looking like a normal jolly family group on holiday - sorry off topic but Philomena is a treasure house of information..)

We haven't heard that Gerry did any surfing, all the same he's got surfing friends who are recognised by SC.

Edmunds has already changed his flight on the evening of 3/5 - wonderful prescience - and has evidence on camera that Maddie was alive on 3/5. Although this evidence is never publicly available, apart from the very curious schoolboy-like letter he wrote to exonerate the mcCs.

Hope this topic isn't going to get lost.

The 8.30 call for Madeleine is back as well.

SC isn't sure whether they had a car. He should simply have been sure he never saw them use a car or associated with a car, but it seems he wasn't sure. The simple answer would have been just that: 'I don't know but I never saw them with a car'.

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 15.08.12 11:00

I think it is safe to say that Edmunds would have 'associations' with the Symingtons, imo he got the tip off to change the flight out of there

Interesting on the booking form he is booked 2+2. I thought he was with 3 kids? Unless the 9 year old is classed as an adult? The child must have felt so out of place on that holiday by being over 3/4 years old! As pointed earlier in this topic, why did the Carpenters not book their kids into the restaurant?

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by guest. on 15.08.12 12:42

I also think the other guests are of massive interest as to why they were all there

If there was some sort of medical conference going on Stemcor (Philip Edmonds) would certainly be capable of providing

pharmaceutical grade steel

it's probably not a big issue that the carpenters hadn't booked their children in to the tapas as they had probably eaten

earlier and were likely in buggies

i know a lot of people think whatever happened to M happened earlier in the week but I don't - GA is adamant that the last time she was

seen by an independent source was 5.30pm on the 03/05 and I trust his judgement that this is comes from more than a statement from a nanny

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 16.08.12 14:02

Tennis-Afternoon 3rd May

DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry on the Thursday 3rd May, obviously this was the day when Madeleine disappeared already mentioned in your statement.

SC: Yes, in the restaurant, yes.

DCF: Do you remember if you saw them before the evening'

SC: Humm... I think that we played tennis during the afternoon on Thursday.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I'm not certain, I remember that it was on Thursday that there were four individuals with whom we used to share the tennis courts, and I think that I mentioned this in my statement, I would say that it was on Thursday that we played tennis and I think that this was what we talked about in the Tapas bar.

DCF: OK, do you have any idea of what time you played tennis with Gerry?

SC: Humm... from two to four or from two until any time in the afternoon, I remember it coincided with leaving the kids in the creche and picking them up.

Dan Stuk says in his statement:

Questioned about the class times of G&K McCann on last Thursday, 3 May, he related that the mother of MBM had a group class at 09-10h00 conducted by Georgina; the father had a group class at 10-11h00 conducted by him.

Later, at 15-15h45, the couple had a private class, together, conducted by him - and finally, GM participated in the men's social tennis event at 18-19h00.


Though it totally contradicts Carpenters statement, think I have found a consistency in a mccann statement! exalt

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 18.08.12 0:20

Carolyn Carpenter rogatory interview withheld from the PJ files

Page 18 Interview Carolyn Elizabeth CARPENTER, she was interviewed on 21st April 2008, the interview was recorded on DVD

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by jd on 09.09.12 4:33

@jd wrote:So Edmunds had already made early plans to flee PDL on the 4th May.......

DCF: We arrived at about seven [Tapas Bar] because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children.

SC: Yes
.
DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist



On the booking sheets it says Edmunds himself lived there

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by tigger on 09.09.12 7:07

From: The creche enquiry page 2
Guest on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:27 pm

Question:

Why did Stephen Carpenter in his statement say that his daughter and Madeleine were in the same group, yet his daughters name never appears on the same creche sheet as Madeleine? Well apart from one day, the 1st of May, when her name is added but is then scrubbed off.
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2551-creche-sheets-and-attendance-charts

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

unquote

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There are TWO separate explanations as to how Robert Murat became the translator. Which one is the truth?

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.09.12 7:21

@tigger wrote:
Very interesting person Mr. Carpenter, Maintenance technician - of what? Surely not washing machines!

He is very clear that he and only he introduced Murat to Gerry. Murat made himself known to SC and volunteered his services...
Actually, tigger, that is by no means 100% clear. Have a look at an ALTERNATIVE explanation as to how Murat became the translator, an alternative explanation which has more than a suggestion of possibility about it - see the passage I've highlighted in blue below:


Extract from 'Robert Murat: From arguido to applause', Madeleine Foundation article

[Speaking to police on 14 May 2007] Contrary to what he had said previously, he did not speak to Michaela on the telephone, because between 8.00pm and 10.00pm, he said she had been at a Thursday night Jehovah’s Witness meeting, and she’d switched off her mobile ’phone. He says he might have spoken to her after 10.00pm, but can’t remember.

He said that he didn’t remember being on his computer that evening, but does remember hearing, at about 10.30pm or just after, a police or ambulance siren. But he didn’t leave the house to investigate what that was all about. He says he went to bed about midnight that night, waking up at about 9.00am the following morning (Friday).

What he says next is quite important. He said that after taking a bath and then talking to his mother in the kitchen, his mother told him that ‘something terrible has happened’. She said she had had SKY NEWS on and that a child had disappeared from Praia da Luz during the night. Murat says that he and his mother then went immediately into their garden, which had a fence about 3ft to 4ft high around it, to check if perhaps the child had somehow gained entrance to their property. They searched their greenhouse - all with no result.

Murat says he then saw a passer-by, an English-speaking person, to whom he spoke. He says the Englishman, whose name he doesn’t know, confirmed that the child had vanished [NOTE: The Englishman’s name was Stephen Carpenter, the father of the ‘Hertfordshire’ couple who had been dining in the Tapas bar with their children alongside the McCanns and their ‘Tapas 9’ friends the previous night when Madeleine was reported missing].

Murat said that this passer-by said the child’s name was Madeleine and that he knew Madeleine’s parents. Murat says he assumed that the passer-by must have been staying in the Praia da Luz Ocean Club Complex, as indeed the stranger confirmed. Murat then says that he then went to the Ocean Club with Mr Carpenter and there was immediately introduced to Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann, ‘offering to help’ them in any way he could. He said he thought he could help as he spoke both English and Portuguese.

He then says he toured several of the Ocean Club apartments with a GNR Police Officer and an Ocean Club employee, visiting all the apartments and opening up several with keys to see if Madeleine might be in one of the apartments. He says that: “Some of the apartments were closed and had ‘no keys’; these apartment were reported to the GNR’s senior investigator”.

He says he was also introduced to John Hill, the Manager of Mark Warner, who supplied them with more keys to these other, locked, apartments. Murat told police that prior to this occasion he did not know the interior layout of the ‘Ocean Club’, only entering the resort for the first time after Madeleine’s disappearance. He added that: “The ‘binómios’ arrived and began a more rigorous form of search”.

Murat then became heavily involved that day (4 May) in translation work. As he told police: “Having told people I spoke both languages, I spoke to several people, including GNR Police Officers, and translated for several witnesses, right through the afternoon”.


A different explanation of how Robert Murat became a translator on the Madeleine case

But elsewhere (Source: http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/12/murat-recommended-as-translator-by.html)

…we find an alternative explanation for how Robert Murat became a translator in Portugal in connection with Madeleine’s disappearance:

QUOTE

Staff from Bill Henderson’s office suggested the name of Robert Murat as a reliable translator who could be used in the police inquiry, in the days following Madeleine McCann disappearance. Murat was already known among diplomatic staff, as he had letters of recommendation from Norfolk Police, where he worked for Bernard Matthews, one of the largest poultry farm companies in UK, which employs hundreds of Portuguese workers.

The fact that Robert Murat has acted, before, as translator for Norfolk Police, and the recommendation issued by Bill Henderson’s office, at the time the British consul in Algarve, took police to accept the suggestion, according to PJ [Portuguese Police] sources. After Murat was named a formal suspect, the police went through all translations he had done, checking their accuracy, but no problem was found, according to the same sources. Bill Henderson retired from his diplomatic post and went back to the U.K. in August.

UNQUOTE

Murat’s translation work, 4 to 9 May 2007

Murat then said that after finishing his translation work for the day [4 May], he went to see Michaela that evening, leaving his home about 7.00pm to 7.30pm and arriving back in Praia da Luz about 11.00pm to 11.30pm. The next day (Saturday) he again did translation work, also spoke to several people from the press and media, and again drove over to see Michaela in Lagos in the evening.

He told police that his relationship with the media people he had talked to was ‘somewhat troubled’.

On the Sunday (6 May), Murat says he spoke to the wife of the owner of the Batista supermarket, asking him to leave open the supermarket ‘in order to supply all the people’ who were now in Praia da Luz. The supermarket was not open because of a staff shortage. Apparently the owner provided several litres of water that were placed at the entrance of Block 5 of the Ocean Club Complex.

Then, on Monday 7 May, just four days after Madeleine’s disappearance, someone whom he’d known since he was twelve years old, called Gaynor, told him that he was the main suspect among the many journalists in the village as having abducted Madeleine.

Subsequently, he learned that Gaynor also worked for SKY NEWS as a journalist. She told Murat that some of the journalists were comparing him with Ian Huntley, who had murdered the two Soham girls. At the same time the PJ were noting on their files:

At this point in time we noted straightaway Murat’s unusual body language, coupled with his lack of social communication skills, stating that he did not want to be photographed, nor even for us to make any allusions to his presence there”.

From this point on, he said he refused to speak with journalists and alerted the police to these allegations. He said he would not give his name to any more journalists, nor allow himself to be photographed.

Stories then emerged in the newspapers that he had pornography on his computer. Murat told the Portuguese police that he did have pictures of naked women over 18 on his computer, but ‘not sexually explicit’. He added that he had no photographs of men. He denied having any record of violent sex, sadomasochism, images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals on his computer. He denied using an external USA server and said he was ‘not aware’ of any encrypted content on his computer.

He denied having anything to do with Madeleine’s disappearance and said he knew nothing at all about the case. He was then asked some more questions about his computers and computer networks, which we examine in more detail below. Shortly following that interview, the Portuguese Police declared him a formal suspect.

H. The second set of police interviews with Murat - on 10 and 11 July, two months after he was made ‘arguido’

We’ll take his two interviews separately.

Murat’s police interview on 10 July

Murat was asked to attend for questioning by Portuguese police on 10 July and told he had the right to consult a solicitor. He didn’t require either a solicitor or translator to be present with him. He was asked to confirm his previous testimony. He replied, however, that on the day of his earlier interview (14 May) he was very tired and didn’t remember the details of what he said on that occasion.

His previous statement was then read out to him. He confirmed the general thrust of his statement, but said he wanted to amend some of ‘afmações’ [details] as he said he had confused some events, in particular as regards the dates and times of when they happened.

He said that things he said happened on Wednesday 2 May he now more calmly recalled had happened on Thursday 3 May - and vice versa. And he now said there were ‘other facts’, including some that he now remembered having occurred in those two days that he wanted to tell police about.

The new information that he volunteered included:

SNIPPED

Murat now began to correct other more important statements he’d previously made about events on 2 and 3 May 2007. He changed his account significantly.

SNIPPED

Now Murat comes to various changes of story as to what happened on Thursday 3 May, the day Madeleine was reported missing. He again emphasises how tired and confused he had been when he gave his earlier statement.

Now he told the police quite a different account of that day’s events.

He now said he woke at 8.00am and left the house by 8.45am. In fact, he said, he had a scheduled appointment to keep at a business tourist complex called ‘Gold Bunker’ in the Espiche district near Almádena. Michaela was with him. He was asked about how Michaela happened to be with him as early as 8.45am, but now remembered that she had ‘come over to Praia da Luz’, but didn’t say how, and the police didn’t press him. He said that they both then drove in his mother’s VW Transporter to the meeting, arriving there at 9.30am. He says it was there in Espiche that they had a meeting, although Michaela Walczuk had claimed the meeting had taken place in her apartment.

A possible explanation for Murat ‘remembering’ his visit to Espiche is that by then, he knew that the police records of his mobile ’phone placed him at Espiche that morning.

He now told police about the details of this meeting, which he had been entirely unable to remember during his first interview with them. There, he and Michaela had met the female owner’s father-in-law [unnamed in the Portuguese Police files]. He asserted that he didn’t remember his name but said that he was a ‘builder from Lagos’. The owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex [also unnamed] arrived to join the meeting a little later.

They continued talking and all had lunch together - making it all the more remarkable that Murat had omitted to give details of this meeting at his earlier interview.

After lunch, Murat and Michaela had gone to the Marina in Lagos where they met with Jorge and his son again. But contrary to his previous claims, Michaela’s daughter, C______, did not accompany them that day.

Now Murat said they went to the Palmares Golf Club in the afternoon, where they remained until the time to pick up C______, i.e. around 3.30pm. Murat said that Jorge and his son Jason were again in the car. He dropped them off near the Post Office on the way to pick up C______. The three of them then drove to Michaela’s house for 3.45pm and stayed there until around 7.30pm. He says he then drove straight home and didn’t stop anywhere en route.

SNIPPED

Now Murat went on to change his account of what happened the day after Madeleine was reported missing, Friday 4 May.

He had to admit that he’d ’phoned Michaela at 8.27 am, though he again couldn’t remember what it was about. He admits therefore that he woke well before 9.00am that morning, the time he had previously given the police for when he had woken up...

REST SNIPPED

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: The Carpenters

Post by tigger on 09.09.12 7:46

Good morning Tony! I don't believe it either, it's just that Carpenter is very precise on 'how it happened'. As I and I believe the PJ are convinced that Gerry and Murat knew each other, it's just interesting for the fact that Carpenter volunteered to introduce him and made a point of it in his statement.

Don't want to derail the topic to Murat and another curious point about Carpenter is this:

From: The creche enquiry page 2
Guest on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:27 pm

Question:

Why did Stephen Carpenter in his statement say that his daughter and Madeleine were in the same group, yet his daughters name never appears on the same creche sheet as Madeleine? Well apart from one day, the 1st of May, when her name is added but is then scrubbed off.
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2551-creche-sheets-and-attendance-charts

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

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Did the 'chat over the hedge' really happen?

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.09.12 8:03

@tigger wrote:Good morning Tony! I don't believe it either, it's just that Carpenter is very precise on 'how it happened'. And as I believe the PJ are convinced that Gerry and Murat knew each other, it's just interesting for the fact that Carpenter volunteered to introduce him and made a point of it in his statement.
So, is this possible? By the morning of 4 May, the British authorities (in this case the Ambassador's office) were hastily contacting the PJ and telling them: 'Look, an ideal man to translate for you, a man who's already on the books of Norfolk Police as a translator, just happens to have flown in from Exeter three days ago. Are you interested?'

The PJ respond: 'Phew, thanks very much, we're a bit short on translators right now and it looks like there'll be a lot of people to interview'.

By that time, Murat and Carpenter had already arranged their cover story about the 'chat over the hedge' - which is hugely unlikely, since it's obvious from so many indications that Murat knew perfectly well what was happening re Madeleine. Murat's exaggerated: "I-just-want-to-help-cos-I've-got-a daughter-the-same-age" doesn't really wash either.

[Carpenter now lives in a very large detached house on the southern outskirts of Stevenage btw]

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Hummingbird on 09.09.12 13:31

Picture the scene. A little girl has gone missing whilst on holiday in Portugal, the media are turning up in large numbers. At this point everyone in the world who has heard about this will not have seen the parents and must be thinking 'oh how awful for them they must be frantic' .

We had no reason to believe otherwise at this stage.

So would a man who claims to have met you only 3 times - in passing - and is no great or close friend take a complete stranger who claims to speak Portugese and would love to help out and get involved, up to the front door of the apartment - which must have had a PJ guard on it by now - and say
'Hi Gerry & Kate, it''s me, your great friend Mr Carpenter, you know, remember we played tennis a couple of times and have sat near you in the Tapas bar? Yes? Well I thought you might like to meet my very new good friend Mr Murat - you did say that was your name didn't you? Yes? oh good, well, he has offered to help out and be an interpreter for you and go with the police and open up locked apartments and check that your daughter isn't inside any of them, very nice of him don't you think? Good, glad you agree, I'll leave him with you then while you are going through this awful ordeal - oh, I don't think he has been police checked or anything but I can guarantee he's a really nice chappy as I say I met him this morning!! Oh and did I mention he mentioned his sister lives really near to one of your very good friends and he flew back here only 2 days ago in a real hurry, now wasn't that lucky, bye for now then!'

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Stephen Carpenter and Robert Murat

Post by mrcibubur on 14.09.12 5:57

It is surely apparent to us all that Stephen Carpenter and Gerry McCann were barely acquainted, they certainly did not know each other prior to their respective family holidays at PDL. We can readily accept that they bumped into each other during the course of their stay at Ocean Club and may have chatted in a manner not dissimilar to that which allegedly occurred between Jez Wilkins and Gerry McCann on the night of 3rd May.

Robert Murat was supposedly at home that evening, 3rd May, after returning from Michaela's Apartment, with his handphone switched off until around 11.15pm but with access to his computer. The Police took away his computer for quite a period of time and would have been able to check his computer activity between approx 7.30pm and midnight when he said he went to bed. The Police would have been able to trace whatever Robert Murat did on his computer that evening, however innocent it may have been or otherwise connected to Madeline McCann.

It is quite possible that the Murats have cable TV and thus access to Sky News. We are not privy to all the information but we must assume that the Police were able to check whether Casa Liliana had a subscription for Sky News. Relevant in the context that the Tapas 9 alerted Sky News before any other news service and so it would be logical for Robert Murat to refer to that when questioned.

As regards Stephen Carpenter, it is highly questionable that he ever spoken to Robert Murat at all, let alone saw him lurking outside the Ocean Club Apartments or that he was a passer by and Robert Murat just happened to come out and enquire if he knew what was happening at the Ocean Club, let alone introduce Robert Murat to Gerry McCann.

Why on earth would someone like Stephen Carpenter, who could perhaps be considered as impartial and credible a witness as Jeremy Wilkins, want to give a misleading statement?

I do not doubt that Stephen Carpenter is not a credible witness and nor do I doubt that Robert Murat is involved though the extent of his involvement is very questionable. Given the complete picture of misinformation on which we all reflect, it suddenly leads me to think that someone is deliberately setting out to distort the evidence who has a say over and above the jurisdiction of the British and Portuguese Police and who has investigated the case and had contacts with key witnesses, otherwise, how can so many inconsistencies be so publicly published and readily accepted from so many people involved?

Just on this Thread alone, the point is made about Stephen Carpenter owning a large detached house in Hertfordshire. I have not bothered to check up on this but it is easy to access land registry records and see a copy of Stephen Carpenters registered title to his property (cost just a few Pounds, paid online and downloaded) to establish when he bought the house, who owns it and to whom it is mortgaged.

Likewise, Robert Murat, now married to Michaela, went on a world cruise earlier this year.

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by twisted on 04.11.13 17:14

I wonder why Mrs Carpenter´s  rog interview is being held back?

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by twisted on 09.11.13 16:53

Mr Carpenter´s statement is very interesting. If you read it carefully he gives information that could lead the police to possible wrong doers. I do not want to say any more. Read it VERY carefully. Look carefully at  one or two of the questions put by the UK police man. Keep an open mind.

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Hicks on 11.11.13 21:54

Not sure where to post this so I hope here will do.

Who is Dave?

I have gone through SC statement of 17th May 2008. SC states how he met RM and how both of them go to see Gerry to offer Murat's help........."We walked back along the path that I had taken to Gerry's apartment and I explained that Robert spoke Portuguese fluently, he told Gerry that is was important to have someone who spoke the language so that nothing would be lost in translation...And that was how RM was presented as a translator.

DCF. Yes.

SC. After he left he explained that Gerry was frustrated with the way the case was being handled and they went to talk to John Hill.

DCF. Yes.

SC. In Mark Warner he asked that all Mark Warner rooms be opened so he could check them and asked the cleaning ladies etc. to help open all the empty apartments that were not necessarily in the Mark Warner complex, but for which they might have the keys. At this moment I also met an English man called Dave who lived in the area and helped authorise entry to all the apartments possible, some in Gerry's block that belonged to local owners and Dave helped to get the keys to these apartments so that they could check them and search them, they checked them all in a general manner.

SC and RM then go on to check area's near the  beach.

Perhaps I am being dumb but I can't think who this Dave is!

A thought had crossed my mind as to whether GM and Dave were actually looking for an empty apartment, being in procession of the keys, to hide M until she could be moved later. SC says that they wanted to look at apartments' not necessarily in the Mark Warner complex.

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Rufus T on 06.01.14 19:38

I was just wondering about Dave myself, involved in property, able to get keys to apartments. Wonder if he has anything to do with Ocean Estates ?

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by sallypelt on 06.01.14 20:15

Guest wrote:

Who is "Irwin" in the McCann group?

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Clocker on 06.01.14 21:57

@sallypelt wrote:
Guest wrote:

Who is "Irwin" in the McCann group?

Irwin and Sperrey statement?

Don't really know how to post a link but there is a thread on this forum regarding your question. Don't know if it helps at all. 

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Guest on 30.01.14 11:12

@twisted wrote:Mr Carpenter´s statement is very interesting. If you read it carefully he gives information that could lead the police to possible wrong doers. I do not want to say any more. Read it VERY carefully. Look carefully at  one or two of the questions put by the UK police man. Keep an open mind.

I have come back to this post over and over again. It's kind of haunted me. I think I understand it now though.

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Curious_Bystander on 30.01.14 13:14

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@twisted wrote:Mr Carpenter´s statement is very interesting. If you read it carefully he gives information that could lead the police to possible wrong doers. I do not want to say any more. Read it VERY carefully. Look carefully at  one or two of the questions put by the UK police man. Keep an open mind.

I have come back to this post over and over again. It's kind of haunted me. I think I understand it now though.
Could either you or twisted drop me a PM to explain?  Feeling pretty dense today Sad

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Re: The Carpenters

Post by Guest on 30.01.14 13:40

Well, the timings of when Mr Carpenter left the Tapas and carried his child back to his apartment via the rear of 5A (9.15-9.30) would indicate he could be Crecheman, although that begs the question why Tanner failed to recognize him after chatting to him at their table only minutes before. Although, if SY were determined to produce a Tannerman, they could use this statement to back up, the location and timings given by Tanner. And Crecheman was born...

As for the other potential 'wrongdoers' mentioned by Twisted, Mr Carpenter refers to English, Portuguese and 'other' nationalities in his statement....

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