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Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

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Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 20:07

So it may have been a policeman that shot a policeman................. bigshock


7.35pm: Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.

The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:


The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.

It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44


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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by Guest on 09.08.11 9:40

candyfloss wrote:So it may have been a policeman that shot a policeman.................

Or a memeber of a gang, got his hands on a Police gun, therefore a gang member - using a Police gun - shoots a Policeman. Or another Police officer trying to shoot a gang member brandishing a gun who is firing it indescretionally at the Police, accidentally misses his target and hits another Police officer. It happens all the time on the front line. Or the bullet in the radio, ricocheted off a metal object. There are many variables. But what came first, the Police radio with a bullet in or a gang member getting shot?

If the Police are being fired upon, they have every right to retaliate.

The family and their representatives should be giving the Police more time to investigate this. Demanding action after less than 48 hours is totally unreasonable.

WE HAVE BEEN WAITING 4+ YEARS FOR ANSWERS AND ACTION

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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by PeterMac on 10.08.11 12:31

Stella wrote:
If the Police are being fired upon, they have every right to retaliate.
They also have the right to shoot dead anyone who threatens them BEFORE that person discharges the weapon. That is the whole point.
It is totally irrelevant whether the person managed to fire on the police.
The family and some other commentators seem to be saying that they approve of his carrying the weapon, but don't approve of his having been shot before he was able to kill a Police officer.

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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by Guest on 10.08.11 13:00

I agree PeterMac and I feel for the officer who is responsible for this. I hope the Met police back him all the way and do not allow him to become another officer forced to resign.

Little boys, who play with illegal toys, deserve all they get. I have no sympathy for him.

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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by Guest on 12.08.11 16:43

12 August 2011 Last updated at 16:21


Mark Duggan death: IPCC 'may have misled journalists'

The police watchdog said there was no evidence Mr Duggan had fired at police

The police watchdog admitted it may have misled journalists into believing that police shooting victim Mark Duggan fired at officers before he was killed.

Mr Duggan, 29, was shot by officers last Thursday in Tottenham.

His death sparked the initial riots in London which were followed by disorder in other English cities.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission later released a statement to make it clear that Mr Duggan did not fire a gun at police.

Ballistic tests found that a bullet which lodged itself in one officer's radio was police issue.

In other developments surrounding the riots in England:


The IPCC said in a statement on Friday: "Analysis of media coverage and queries raised on Twitter have alerted us to the possibility that we may have inadvertently given misleading information to journalists when responding to very early media queries following the shooting of Mark Duggan by Metropolitan Police Service officers on the evening of 4 August."
Police-issue bullet
It said the IPCC's first statement made no reference to shots fired at police but the statement went on: "However, having reviewed the information the IPCC received and gave out during the very early hours of the unfolding incident, before any documentation had been received, it seems possible that we may have verbally led journalists to believe that shots were exchanged, as this was consistent with early information we received that an officer had been shot and taken to hospital.

"Any reference to an exchange of shots was not correct and did not feature in any of our formal statements, although an officer was taken to hospital after the incident."

Mr Duggan was a passenger in a minicab which was stopped by police near Tottenham Hale Tube station.

A non-police issue handgun, converted from a blank-firing pistol to one that shoots live rounds, was recovered close to the scene of his death.

The bullet lodged in the police radio was a "jacketed round", a police-issue bullet consistent with being fired from a Metropolitan Police Heckler and Koch MP5, the IPCC said.

An inquest into Mr Duggan's death, which opened at North London Coroner's Court in High Barnet on Tuesday, heard the father of four died from a single gunshot wound to the chest.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14510329

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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by Daisy on 13.12.11 12:48

I hope those that jumped the gun (pardon the pun) on this one, learn that it's NEVER wise to trust initial reports from the media or the Police.

I hope Mark Duggan's family don't have to wait much longer for answers over his execution. (although I doubt they'll ever get juctice).

Police admit it was a 'mistake' to say Mark Duggan had shot at officers first ahead of English riots




By
Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 12:09 AM on 13th December 2011



'Mistake': IPCC investigator Colin Sparrow admitted it was information Mark Duggan had fired at police first was incorrect


The lead investigator for the police
watchdog inquiry into the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan in London was
today forced to admit a "mistake" was made in the release of information
that claimed he had fired at officers first.

At a pre-inquest hearing into the death of the 29-year-old in Tottenham, north London, on August 4, Independent Police Complaints Commission
(IPCC) investigator Colin Sparrow was questioned about the lack of information suppied
to his relatives so far.

Michael Mansfield QC, representing Mr Duggan's family told
the hearing at North London Coroner's Court: 'My first question is, you
appreciate the anxiety that the family have about the investigation?

'And
you are aware at least, one of the reasons is the misinformation that
was broadcast at the beginning, close to the time Mark Duggan met his
death. Misinformation suggesting some form of shoot-out, and you accept
that was a serious mistake?'

Mr Sparrow replied: 'It wasn't accurate.'

Mr Mansfield added: 'It was a mistake, wasn't it?'
Mr Sparrow said: 'It was a mistake.'
Mr
Mansfield, who is also representing Mr Duggan's fiancee Semone Wilson,
and a second woman, Precious Douaihy, continued to highlight this lack
of information.




Incident: The scene at Ferry Lane, Tottenham, London after Mark Duggan, 29, was fatally shot by police



He said: 'The problem for the family
is a complete breakdown in confidence for this investigation. While
normally this question might not have to be asked because confidence is
automatic, on this occasion, from the beginning, there has been
misinformation, a lack of information, and conflicting information.'

He
asked Mr Sparrow why the family had not been given an interim report
made by the pathologist who carried out the post-mortem examination on
Mr Duggan.

Stating
that in all his experience, he had "never come across a situation in
which the pathology has not been provided to the family" within a month
of the death of their relative.

But Mr Sparrow told the court the report consisted only of a cause of death and it had been given verbally.




Inquest: Semone Wilson, fiancee of Mark Duggan,
(left) arriving with two unidentified women at North London Coroner's
Court in High Barnet back in August


Mr Mansfield also criticised the fact
that Mr Duggan's family had not even been given information about the
trajectory of the bullet that killed him.

This would indicate the position in which he and the firearms officers at the scene would have been standing.

The
court was also told that the family had requested that an independent
pathologist carry out tests on Mr Duggan's body, and for them to be
given the chance to discuss their findings with the original pathologist
- but this had not been allowed.

It
also emerged that a gun initially linked to Mr Duggan was actually
found 14ft away from the crime scene in Ferry Lane, and on the other
side of a fence.




Spark: Mark Duggan's funeral cortege arrives at the New Testament Church of God in Wood Green in London, England



Mr Mansfield said witnesses had said
they had seen a police officer throw the weapon there and that neither
Mr Duggan's blood, DNA or fingerprints were found on the gun.

The
IPCC was also accused of being "obstructive", but Mr Sparrow answered
that the police watchdog did not feel it was "appropriate" to give Mr
Duggan's family this information while the inquiry is still ongoing.

After
hearing from both parties, Coroner Andrew Walker told the hearing that
the inquest proper into Mr Duggan's death would last between four and
eight weeks and aim to begin during the second week of September next
year.




Fallout: Mark Duggan's death led to the riots which started in Tottenham and spread across the UK up to Manchester


Monday's hearing was packed with Mr
Duggan's friends and family, including Ms Wilson and Ms Douaihy, who is
reported to be pregnant with his child.

Mr
Duggan, a father of four, was killed by a single gunshot wound to the
chest after armed officers stopped the minicab the suspected gangster
was travelling in to carry out an arrest as part of a pre-planned
operation.

Initial
reports that he had fired at police were later dismissed by ballistic
tests and Scotland Yard apologised to Mr Duggan's family for the
"distress" caused to them in the wake of the shooting.

Anger
over the police's lack of contact with his family was the starting
point for the outbreak of social unrest which started in Tottenham on
August 6 after around 120 people marched peacefully from the area of
Broadwater Farm to Tottenham police station, demanding "justice".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073268/Police-admit-mistake-say-Mark-Duggan-shot-officers-ahead-English-riots.html#ixzz1gQ01xIE3

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“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Bullet in Pc's radio may have been a police issue bullet

Post by PeterMac on 13.12.11 18:19

One of the big problems is that the News media DEMAND a response, even when the full situation with all the details is not known by the officer being interviewed. There is a limit to the number of times you can answer " I don't know". So senior officers are briefed inadequately by more junior ones, who themselves do not have the full story obtained with proper independent balance from both sides.

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It was a mistake

Post by Daisy on 13.12.11 22:44

@PeterMac wrote:One of the big problems is that the News media DEMAND a response, even when the full situation with all the details is not known by the officer being interviewed. There is a limit to the number of times you can answer " I don't know". So senior officers are briefed inadequately by more junior ones, who themselves do not have the full story obtained with proper independent balance from both sides.

No disrespect PeterMac, I do appeciate your point of view, but that's a pretty poor excuse for the police passing on disinformation. Disinformation that served its purpose in assassinating the character of the man they'd just assassinated. They've admitted that they lied (well admitted a mistake was made); there was no "shootout".

Mark Duggan wasn't even armed. The police involved in this incident knew this but gave out woefully false reports to the press. They reported to the media FIRST, before even having the decency of informing his family, they learned of his death through the TV news. TV news that immediately started portraying him as a 'gun totin' gangsta' and criminal. Mark Duggan however, had no criminal record and it hasn't been proven that he was ever in the possession of a gun. "A gun found near the body of Mark Duggan, who was shot by police, did
not have his fingerprints, blood or DNA, a hearing heard today."

I suppose it could be argued that if the police had let the truth get out first, that they'd killed an unarmed man, the summer riots could have been a whole lot worse. There is a theory that this 'assassination' and the riots were all pre-planned; all a set up, conspiracy theories eh.

The family have no confidence in this investigation, who can blame them. They've been treated disgustingly.

Quoted from the hearing: "My first question is, you appreciate the anxiety that the family have about the investigation?

The problem for the family is a complete breakdown in confidence for this investigation”


Michael Mansfield QC



"And you are aware at least, one
of the reasons is the misinformation that was broadcast at the
beginning, close to the time Mark Duggan met his death.

"Misinformation suggesting some form of shoot-out, and you accept that was a serious mistake?" Mr Sparrow replied: "It wasn't accurate", before adding: "It was a mistake."


"The court was told that a gun initially linked to Mr Duggan
was actually found 14ft (4m) away from the crime scene in Ferry Lane,
and on the other side of a fence.

Mr Mansfield said witnesses had said they had seen a police officer throw the weapon there.

He asked Mr Sparrow: "How on earth did the gun get over a fence 14ft away? Was it thrown there by a police officer?"

Mr Sparrow replied: "That's a suggestion, yes."

____________________
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”   

Unknown


“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

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