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Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by guest. on 11.08.11 23:13





REPORTER How do you feel about the criticism of the McCann family for leaving their children?

SUSAN MOYES Harsh, very,
very harsh. Hand on heart, we've all done something like that, I think.
And erm, no, its just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.





Why does she state unfortunate accident?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 12.08.11 2:22

Nobody would describe an abduction as an accident

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 12.08.11 10:08

Gerry McCann speaking on Panorama:

"There had been quite a few people in the apartment but not into the bedroom, that was limited to myself, Kate, I think two of our friends, the two GNR officers and I think a translator. I was certainly saying to people: Stay out of the room. There was no sealing off of the room and should we? The twins were still sleeping in their cots. So... you'd be trying to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of the cots into their own apartment which does make me wonder about whether there was any substances used to keep them asleep".

“Into their own apartment”?, they were already in "their own apartment".

"they slept very soundly until we moved them". Not according to Goncalo Amaral. The twins remained asleep even after being moved. "Lights on. lights off, they did not wake up".

Is this more evidence of another apartment upstairs somewhere?

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Keep talking!

Post by tigger on 14.08.11 17:02

Stella wrote:Gerry McCann speaking on Panorama:

"There had been quite a few people in the apartment but not into the bedroom, that was limited to myself, Kate, I think two of our friends, the two GNR officers and I think a translator. I was certainly saying to people: Stay out of the room. There was no sealing off of the room and should we? The twins were still sleeping in their cots. So... you'd be trying to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of the cots into their own apartment which does make me wonder about whether there was any substances used to keep them asleep".

“Into their own apartment”?, they were already in "their own apartment".

"they slept very soundly until we moved them". Not according to Goncalo Amaral. The twins remained asleep even after being moved. "Lights on. lights off, they did not wake up".

Is this more evidence of another apartment upstairs somewhere?


Gosh, they certainly suffer from foot-in-mouth don't they? Very good theory. G5a was owned privately by a Mrs. Ruth McCann, from Liverpool.
Well, I'm still going with the theory that whatever happened to Maddie, happened really early, 29th even. Then they might well have just moved to another apartment. Or rather, their 'own' apartment.
Oldfield never saw the inside of g5a I think. He described a type of cot which was in his apartment, not g5a, he saw two windows,not one. Kate thought of putting Cuddle Cat on a high ledge because there was one in the other apartment. Cuddle Cat and the blanket were going to be the main indicators which would tell her Maddie'd been 'taken'.
Basically props.
Perhaps she did a lot of laundry in that flat because the cleaner was told that it was very untidy with lots of clothes. So not toys.
This other apartment also works well with the children the cleaner saw on Sunday. Some of the assembled children upstairs could have come down to get things from the fridge in g5a. Or just a little performance to show they were all present.
Although when Gerry says: 'their own apartment', perhaps there was just one apartment for all the children and the minder of the evening. Perhaps it was a big sleepover for all of them, except Maddie. Perhaps the apartment where the GNR dogs alerted.
That works well for me. Lot more time for preparation. But where was Maddie kept meanwhile? Murat didn't arrive until early 2nd May.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 15.08.11 8:05

The forensic report does not mention any hair, dna or fingerprints found from any of the children in G5A.

Is this another indication that they moved to somewhere else after the incident?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by PeterMac on 15.08.11 8:26

[quote="tigger"]
[/font]"they slept very soundly until we moved them". Not according to Goncalo Amaral. The twins remained asleep even after being moved. "Lights on. lights off, they did not wake up".

Not merely lights on and off either. Roaring like a Bull, smashing walls, rushing in and out of the front door (The one they eventually admitted to the police they didn't use in case it distrubed the children !) to muck about with the shutters, wrenching the shutters up and down, opening and shutting the window, scooping up the children ( the remaining children) from the travel cots complete with all the bedclothes, performing the Masonic / Islamic prayer dance / supplication, and all the rest.
And the twins slept on.
And it took them a further 2 months to wonder publicly if they had been sedated !

Pure Disney. "The Princess slept for a thousand years, and when she woke there was a handsome Prince..." - sorry, A Perfect Prince.........

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Yes, roaring like a bull

Post by tigger on 15.08.11 13:29

@PeterMac wrote:
Roaring like a Bull, smashing walls, rushing in and out of the front door ......., performing the Masonic / Islamic prayer dance / supplication, and all the rest.
.........

I just wanted to pick up on that. Gerry strikes me very much as a wannabee. (important). He would be rather like someone turning up at a neighbourhood watch meeting in full combat gear.
So trying the weird supplication with sound effects, was that repeated by both of them later because the first one had no effect? And the second time it would look like the 'normal' outpouring of grief? Because the PJ report describes the episode very clearly. Gerry got down on his knees bent forward and hit the ground twice with both hands, I think making the weird sound also twice. Certainly looks like a supplication ritual with Mithraic overtones.

The phrase Kate used (did she use that so early on too?) Gerry was roaring like a bull. Not: Gerry was shouting her name, bellowing even. But roaring like a bull? Freudian slip perhaps? Re the little supplication ceremony?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 23.12.11 10:07

Bumping for monkey mind.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by monkey mind on 24.12.11 10:13

Thank you Stella :^) I shall read these 3 threads today...

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 15:04

These people seem incapable of stringing two sentences together without the second contradicting the first.

Not only does Fiona Payne mention the ground floor, state she was one floor up and then place herself on the second floor, she further goes on to say that the O'Briens and the Oldfields booked one bedroom apartments, were upgraded to 2 bedroom apartments, but everybody used to congregate at the Payne apartment because it was bigger. Eh?

With Tanner mentioning they were in a two bed apt, and Oldfield 'going up' to check on the kids and further describing an apartment different to 5A when he allegedly entered 5A to check on the kids (then contradicting himself by saying he didn't actually check to see if M was in her bed) certainly would indicate they may have been on the 1st floor. And by 1st floor, I mean exactly that, the one above the ground floor. The one below th second floor.

Do we know how many ground floor apartments were two bedroom?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 26.12.11 15:25

(then contradicting himself by saying he didn't actually check to see if M was in her bed)

If having a checking system instead of using the nannies is their defence, its makes a mockery of their checking system if on their checks they are not checking/seeing the kids in their rooms/beds. There isn't a checking system as you are not actually checking on the kids

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 16:35

@jd wrote:
(then contradicting himself by saying he didn't actually check to see if M was in her bed)

If having a checking system instead of using the nannies is their defence, its makes a mockery of their checking system if on their checks they are not checking/seeing the kids in their rooms/beds. There isn't a checking system as you are not actually checking on the kids

My point exactly. So if by your own admission you didn't check, then why on earth did you enter that apartmen for the first time that week as far as I am aware, then what exactly were you doing in that apartment just before Madeleine allegedly disappeared? Was it possibly for the reasons I hypothesise above?

And why does he justify his visit by saying he decided to check because it was the 'last night'? It definitely was not the last night of the holiday. It was the last night Madeleine spent in that room, or appeared to spend in that room. How could he know that in advance? He could only know if he were part of the abduction or the staging of an abduction. There can be no other explanation. These are extremely cutting questions that should have been pressed hard but maybe never will be.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 26.12.11 17:53

@monkey mind wrote: And why does he justify his visit by saying he decided to check because it was the 'last night'? It definitely was not the last night of the holiday. It was the last night Madeleine spent in that room, or appeared to spend in that room. How could he know that in advance? He could only know if he were part of the abduction or the staging of an abduction. There can be no other explanation. These are extremely cutting questions that should have been pressed hard but maybe never will be.

This is very good Monkey Mind. I have been trying to confirm their actual booking dates but can;t find anything yet but then made the mistake of trying to read David Paynes statement which has done me in for a while. However, a weeks holiday from 28th April should be to 5th May 2007 so why is he saying 'last night'?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 22:12

JD, I'm afraid I can't take credit for that one :^(

It was Stella I believe, but I agree, it's a really good point, and one that would appear to be very difficult to give a plausible answer to.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 27.12.11 2:14

If it was not the last night re bookings...why he is saying that it is? He is an NHS doctor, he can't be totally thick or god help his patients he can't keep a simple matter of his holiday dates correct

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 27.12.11 8:57

@monkey mind wrote:And why does he justify his visit by saying he decided to check because it was the 'last night'? It definitely was not the last night of the holiday. It was the last night Madeleine spent in that room, or appeared to spend in that room. How could he know that in advance? He could only know if he were part of the abduction or the staging of an abduction. There can be no other explanation. These are extremely cutting questions that should have been pressed hard but maybe never will be.

Remember, this only came out in 2008 in the Rogatory Interviews, when everyone was in the UK. So there was not much the PJ could have done at that time. I think we can safely say though, that when the case gets reopened, Matthew Oldfield will be one of the first ones required to return to Portugal to explain this comment or face a EAW.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by monkey mind on 27.12.11 11:45

Stella wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:And why does he justify his visit by saying he decided to check because it was the 'last night'? It definitely was not the last night of the holiday. It was the last night Madeleine spent in that room, or appeared to spend in that room. How could he know that in advance? He could only know if he were part of the abduction or the staging of an abduction. There can be no other explanation. These are extremely cutting questions that should have been pressed hard but maybe never will be.

Remember, this only came out in 2008 in the Rogatory Interviews, when everyone was in the UK. So there was not much the PJ could have done at that time. I think we can safely say though, that when the case gets reopened, Matthew Oldfield will be one of the first ones required to return to Portugal to explain this comment or face a EAW.

That is assuming of course that the Portuguese police possess as keen an eye as yourself Stella and spot that little gaff. Maybe you should write them :^) Maybe a summary of the numerous salient points discovered by members here over the last couple years should be sent to them? Either way I hope you are right, I hope he is questioned about that gaff and why exactly he was in that room just before Madeleine allegedly disappeard, he certainly wasn't checking on the children as he claims because he didn't check on them, doesn't even know whether Maddie was in her bed or not! It would appear it is very difficult to damage those shutters from the outside, not so difficult from the inside,

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 27.12.11 11:50

@monkey mind wrote:
Stella wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:And why does he justify his visit by saying he decided to check because it was the 'last night'? It definitely was not the last night of the holiday. It was the last night Madeleine spent in that room, or appeared to spend in that room. How could he know that in advance? He could only know if he were part of the abduction or the staging of an abduction. There can be no other explanation. These are extremely cutting questions that should have been pressed hard but maybe never will be.

Remember, this only came out in 2008 in the Rogatory Interviews, when everyone was in the UK. So there was not much the PJ could have done at that time. I think we can safely say though, that when the case gets reopened, Matthew Oldfield will be one of the first ones required to return to Portugal to explain this comment or face a EAW.

That is assuming of course that the Portuguese police possess as keen an eye as yourself Stella and spot that little gaff. Maybe you should write them :^) Maybe a summary of the numerous salient points discovered by members here over the last couple years should be sent to them? Either way I hope you are right, I hope he is questioned about that gaff and why exactly he was in that room just before Madeleine allegedly disappeard, he certainly wasn't checking on the children as he claims because he didn't check on them, doesn't even know whether Maddie was in her bed or not! It would appear it is very difficult to damage those shutters from the outside, not so difficult from the inside,

I have told SY about that little gaff and I think about 8 or 9 other people on here have told them all about the others.

This could be why they are collecting evidence boxes.

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