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Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

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Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 06.08.11 10:53

The more I look at her statement, the more I have to question it. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Reply: "Yeah, we arrived, at the sort of main reception area, got everybody out, I think the men went in to do the actual booking-in, I remember just standing out with Kate outside with all the baggage and the children, so it's either both Dave and Gerry or just Dave went in and, and booked us all in. then we had to wait for the sort of MARK WARNER bus to pick up and take us to the apartments, there was a bit of a wait there, about fifteen minutes or so and then, yeah, a chap came with a minibus and we all sort of piled in with all the luggage and he took us to the apartments. This sounds ridiculous, but I can't even remember the number of the apartment I was in. I can't remember. But we were on the second floor, so we were one up, everybody else was on the ground floor. And we were the only ones that had, had booked to have a two bedroomed apartment. I think Matt and, Russ and Jane had only booked a one bedroomed one but they actually did get a two bedroomed one. So whether that was because of, and that made us one floor up, I don't know. So we had a balcony and we had a slightly bigger apartment. Because of that our apartment seemed to be the meeting point for lunchtimes and things like that, just because it was bigger and had a view, a better view than the others. The others were all ready there, i.e. Matt and Rachael and Russ and Jane, they arrived a couple of hours before us, it might have even been longer, I'm just trying to think of the time, it was certainly sort of nearer teatime by the time we got there and I think they'd arrived somewhere lunchtime, so they'd already had a bit of an afternoon there".

How can Fiona she say that she was on the second floor, that she was one up and they were on the ground floor? The last time I checked it goes ground floor, first floor, second floor. Or, in some countries, it only goes first floor and second floor, with no ground floor. But Fiona uses the term "ground floor", which puts her on the first floor, not the second floor.

Why has no one ever questioned Fiona about this and everyone getting "a two bedroom" ?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 06.08.11 15:49

G5A McCann 2 bedroom

G5B Oldfield 1 bedroom

G5C empty

G5D Tanner & O'Brien 1 bedroom

G5H Payne & Webster 2 bedroom

G5J GNR sniffer dogs Rex & Zarus independently signal this privately owned room

G5K Moyes occupies from the 2nd May, a Donos (the owner) booking

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 06.08.11 16:02

Judging by Fiona Payne's mentality (from her statements) I think she looks at the apartment above the ground one as the 2nd floor. Don't think she comprehends that this is actually a first floor and numerical goes something like 0,1,2,3,4 etc

Why hasn't anyone in PL questioned that they were the only ones to book a 2 bedroom apartment?

'G5K Moyes occupies from the 2nd May, a Donos (the owner) booking' is very interesting indeed...is this an owner from the resort or just a holiday maker booking through Donos?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 06.08.11 16:08

@jd wrote:Judging by Fiona Payne's mentality (from her statements) I think she looks at the apartment above the ground one as the 2nd floor. Don't think she comprehends that this is actually a first floor and numerical goes something like 0,1,2,3,4 etc

Why hasn't anyone in PL questioned that they were the only ones to book a 2 bedroom apartment?

This is what I keep asking myself, then it dawned on me, the first time anyone mentions it, is Fiona in her statement taken in 2008. Which means the case had already been shelved and Goncalo Amaral long removed.

'G5K Moyes occupies from the 2nd May, a Donos (the owner) booking' is very interesting indeed...is this an owner from the resort or just a holiday maker booking through Donos?

It is believed that when it states a 'DONOS' booking, it is the owner of the apartment themselves, who is currently using it. Mrs Fenn who owns and lives in hers full time is not listed. Which means Moyes is an infrequent user.

Moyes rings a bell from somewhere, but I'm not sure where ???

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 06.08.11 16:18

I'm working on theory which I just know is right and trying to piece the evidence together. Anything to do with the owners arriving there around May 1st to May 3rd will be very interesting

Fiona may have slipped again in 2008 with the 2 bedroom booking, the way she says it would suggest she actually said a truth there

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 06.08.11 16:28

Your wish is my command

These are the only ones and they look quite interesting when all grouped together...

W1M Campbell 2/5-23/5 DONOS

G604 Gill 2/5-11/5 DONOS

G5K Moyes 2/5-10/6 DONOS (McCann's block)

W21F Ogden 2/5-16/5 OWNER BKG (big 3 bed villa)

W3H Pennell 1/5-12/5 CLIENTES DIRECTOS

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 06.08.11 18:02

You are right that Moyes does ring a bell somewhere, could be nothing though. Apartment block W could be Mark Warner owned apartments?

I will take these names to memory as they may crop up on searching deeper. there is a familiarity feel about them I don't know why. Maybe I am hallucinating!


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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 9:49

Block W, which is for Waterside, are apartments and villas on the sea front. They are the most luxurious (W20-W24), with private pools and garages. One of them was occupied by a recently retired (April 2007) Sheriff of Tain in the Highlands. His extra expenditure is the highest on the lists !!! He writes about golf corses and one artilce I dug up pertaining to Dornoch, was soon whooshed from the internet. Something tells me that he was there for a big golfing event. As we know, Gerry just loves his golf too!!!

Here is the list of their occupants:

20/04/06-31/01/08 W1F Kelly (owner booking)

02/05-23/05 W1M Campbell

28/04-05/05 W2H Laura Jane Elizabeth Kerr

05/05-12/05 W2H Malcolm John Plant

18/04-01/05 W3H Allister (owner booking)

01/05-12/05 W3H Pennell (clientes directos)

03/05-10/05 W4A Stephen Raymond Chapman

26/04-03/05 W4J Pauline Milnes

28/04-05/05 W9 Christopher John Charters

05/05-12/05 W9 Carl George Wilkinson

28/04-05/05 W11B Lisa Marie Selp

05/05-12/05 W11B Malcolm Rothwell

03/05/11/05 W11E Paul Humphreys

29/04-03/05 W13 Stephen Alan Cronin

28/04-05/05 W18 Shervin Kassiri

05/05-12/05 W18 Stephen Culshaw

28/04-05/05 W21B Matthew Philip Newman

06/05-20/05 W21B Ian Pate

04/05-13/05 W21D Margaret Mitchell Shakespeare (owner booking)

02/05-16/05 W21F Ogden (owner booking)

26/04-03/05 W21G John Galbraith Tulip

03/05-10/05 W21G Anthony John Westbrook

30/04-03/05 W22D Phil Morgan (donos) 4 DAY BOOKING

03/05-17/05 W23B Margaret Gordon-Clark

06/05-15/05 W23D Neil Ballinger

29/04-12/05 W24D Donald Booker-Milburn (clientes directos)

17/04-03/05 W24E Rabin (donos)

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 12:24

I've just realised that Fiona Payne gave her rogatory statement in April 2008. The case was shelved in July 2008.

That's nearly 3 months the Portuguese Prosecutors were sitting on Fiona's claims.

Three months to ask why everyone got a room upgrade.

Three months to find out which rooms they really stayed in.

How can we get this case reopened, who do we approach ?


From archiving the process:

Nevertheless, anyone who feels unsatisfied about the epilogue of the investigations, will have the possibility to react against it, having the possibility of eventually changing that epilogue, by prompting diligences based on new (OR MISSED) evidence, as long as that person has the legitimacy to request them and the requested diligences are serious, pertinent and consequent. They may do so in three ways: by requesting the reopening of the inquiry, under article 279, number 1 of the Penal Process Code; by appealing hierarchically against this dispatch under number 2 of article 278, or in another case, under number 2 of article 279 of the Penal Process Code, or by requesting the opening of the instruction under article 287, number 1, item b, of the Penal Process Code.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Αλεξανδρος on 08.08.11 12:31

Madeleine's parents can have investigation reopened for price of stamp say Mr Amaral.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 12:39

I agree Alexandros, can I call you Alex for short?

But how can we do it, to make sure it does happen?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Αλεξανδρος on 08.08.11 12:52

Yes please.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 13:12

Thank you Alex and welcome to this forum.

What I do not understand is, forgetting all about dogs, dna and cars for one minute. What we have here is something equally as important in my eyes. If Fiona is saying that everyone got a 2 bedroom apartment, they could not have been in the apartments they claim to have stayed in. I'm thinking they may have all been staying together on the first floor. Some clues point to this. Both GNR dogs indicated to a supposedly empty apartment on the first floor. Matt Oldfield in his statement talks about going 'up' to see how his daughter is doing, when standing outside G5A after the alarm is raised. So it makes me think perhaps they were all located upstairs.

Another thing Matt drops a clanger when he changes his routine for the first time on the night of the 3rd. He thought it would be a nice thing to do, to check on the McCann children, as it 'was the last night'. But as we know, it was not their last night.

So we have Fiona claiming everyone gets an upgrade and Matthew knowing in advance of 10pm on the 3rd, that it was going to be the last night.

Why oh why are these people not being questioned more thoroughly ?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by HotlipsHealy on 08.08.11 13:29

Because Gordon Brown and Socrates didn't want them questioned more thoroughly?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 13:38

Somebody, somewhere in Portugal now needs to be asked, just as the Met are being asked, Fiona Payne claimed everyone was given a 2 bedroom apartment, so where did they really stay that week ?

The MW booking forms confirm Tanner & O'Brien and the Oldfield's were both allocated 1 bedroom apartments. Even Jane said she was in a 2 bedroom, clearly contradicting the paperwork.

How long can this fiasco be allowed to continue, undisputed ?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by jd on 08.08.11 14:31


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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Daisy on 08.08.11 15:04

@jd wrote:

'G5K Moyes occupies from the 2nd May, a Donos (the owner) booking' is very interesting indeed...is this an owner from the resort or just a holiday maker booking through Donos?

Here's an interview with susan Moyes, the lady that apparently owns apartment G5K.

TRANSCRIPT OF BBC STOKE INTERVIEW WITH SUSAN MOYES

REPORTER This is a story
you've followed incredibly closely because you were involved on the
night. You helped the police and the family in looking for Madeleine
didn't you?

SUSAN MOYES Yes we did and yes, very, very concerned. Concerned for the family and followed it every day, every day.

REPORTER Can you take us back to that night and what you were doing and when you first heard there was a problem?

SUSAN MOYES Sure. We went
out for a meal about seven o'clock down in the town. We walked back
about nine o'clock, round past, erm, the church, round past the
supermarket, back to the apartment. Went out on the balcony about
quarter past nine. Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely. We
then went to bed. We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one
of the friends of the McCanns to say a little girl had been abducted.
Those were the words she used. So we got dressed and joined in the
search. We were out till about four in the morning with, oooh, about I
dont know, thirty people, thirty other people maybe. The Mark Warner
team were out with other guests at the Ocean Club.

REPORTER Now, to put it
into perspective. We've all seen pictures of of the apartment were the
McCanns were staying. How close is yours to theirs?

SUSAN MOYES Directly
above. We are but one above. Mrs Fenn who lives there was in the
apartment below us and then below that was the McCanns. So directly
above.

REPORTER And you were out there for a considerable period of time.

SUSAN MOYES Yeah, we went out there on the Wednesday, the day before Madeleine went missing and we were out for the month of May.

REPORTER Tell me about the effect all of this has had on the local community there.

SUSAN MOYES It was
unbelievable. Really apart from the disruption from the mass media, the
helicopter constantly circling round and sheer disbelief really.
Everybody was completely, well, amazed by it, gobsmacked really.

REPORTER What, I mean what
were the local community saying to you? Because obviously being out
there such a time you must have spoken to a lot of people about it. It
must have been, if you like, the talk of the town.

SUSAN MOYES Mmm. There was
a lot of criticism of the police which we felt was unfounded, err, at
that time. Really a lot of unsure about exactly what happened. How did
somebody get in? Was it the front? Was it the back? Was it left open?
Was it forced? A lot of different stories.

REPORTER Speculation if you like.

SUSAN MOYES Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah!

REPORTER We've got a copy
of the newspaper here. In fact its one of today's newspapers, the
Express and its still front page news, of course, back in the news.

SUSAN MOYES Big style. Yeah! Yeah!

REPORTER How do you feel when you see the pictures here in the newspapers? I mean have you collected newspapers over the period?

SUSAN MOYES Oh yeah! I get
the paper every day anyway but obviously followed it very closely. And I
just, disbelief. No way, no way do I feel they were any way involved in
it. Not at all. No.

REPORTER How do you feel they've been treated?

SUSAN MOYES I think, erm,
initially it was very supportive. Personally, I think, probably if they
had left the Algarve maybe a month ago, erm, it would have been treated
more favourably, I think.

REPORTER Its difficult to know how to handle that kind of situation from their point of view, though I suppose isn't it?

SUSAN MOYES Beggars
belief, it beggars belief, yeah. You just don't want to be in that
situation. But, yeah. I can't understand the turn of people's attitudes
towards them. Some being really quite nasty, unfounded and wrong I
think.

REPORTER Have the
newspapers got it right in terms of where they were that evening, I mean
the distance from the restaurant to the apartment and what have you?

SUSAN MOYES Well, yeah, as
the crow flies they are probably about right with the fifty yards. But
in actual fact you have to - its walled off, the pool and the bar is in a
walled area about six foot of wall. So you have to actually go through a
little entrance building out onto the road and then round to their
apartment.

REPORTER And line of sight? Is there any?

SUSAN MOYES Difficult.
They wouldn't have had vision of the whole of their balcony. They would
have only had the top of it from where they were sitting because of the
wall and because of the flowers on top of the wall.

REPORTER How do you feel about the criticism of the McCann family for leaving their children?

SUSAN MOYES Harsh, very,
very harsh. Hand on heart, we've all done something like that, I think.
And erm, no, its just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.

REPORTER And how do you
feel having been, if you like, being swept along with all this, having
been a part of this story from the start, being there at the time when
it all happened. I suspect as a family you must have talked about this
over the dinner table for weeks and weeks and weeks.

SUSAN MOYES Yes, we have,
we have. And I just can't get my head around it at all. I can't. I can't
understand it and I don't, I don't know if it'll ever be resolved,
really.

REPORTER You are off back to Portugal soon I gather. And how do you think Praia da Luz will be when you get back?

SUSAN MOYES Yeah, we go
back in a couple of weeks and my husband has actually said for the first
time he is going to feel very differently about it. No, I'm fine about
it. I'm fine about it. But yeah, its a shame, its kind of tainted what
is a lovely, lovely spot.


http://www.slippingthroughmyfingers.com/project/susan-moyes-talks-to-radio-stoke/

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 15:47

Well done Daisy, now I remember why that name rings a bell.

Why did one of the tapas women knock on her door and get her out of bed around 11.30? I wonder who that was?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 18:18

As you say Stella, it makes you wonder which apartments they were really in. I sometimes wonder if the McCanns were ever in 5a, as there was so little stuff of theres about. Just a few items hanging in the wardrobe, and Stella mentioned before, no sign of any suitcases anywhere. Also no DNA anywhere. There is also the matter of I think it was MO saying that Madeleines bedroom had 2 windows, which I think he mentions twice in statements.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by ufercoffy on 08.08.11 18:23

candyfloss wrote:As you say Stella, it makes you wonder which apartments they were really in. I sometimes wonder if the McCanns were ever in 5a, as there was so little stuff of theres about. Just a few items hanging in the wardrobe, and Stella mentioned before, no sign of any suitcases anywhere. Also no DNA anywhere. There is also the matter of I think it was MO saying that Madeleines bedroom had 2 windows, which I think he mentions twice in statements.

No high shelf either that Kate said cuddlecat was on.

But what does that say about Eddie and Keela's alerts though if you think the McCanns may never have been in there?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 08.08.11 18:25

@ufercoffy wrote:
candyfloss wrote:As you say Stella, it makes you wonder which apartments they were really in. I sometimes wonder if the McCanns were ever in 5a, as there was so little stuff of theres about. Just a few items hanging in the wardrobe, and Stella mentioned before, no sign of any suitcases anywhere. Also no DNA anywhere. There is also the matter of I think it was MO saying that Madeleines bedroom had 2 windows, which I think he mentions twice in statements.

No high shelf either that Kate said cuddlecat was on.

But what does that say about Eddie and Keela's alerts though if you think the McCanns may never have been in there?

I said it makes you wonder. It could have been empty and .........

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 09.08.11 7:50

Someone else was really staying there...

all the fuss of fixing the blind, help with the washing machine and staying in the room until the cleaner turns up, could all be staged to ensure people connected them to that apartment.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 09.08.11 7:53

candyfloss wrote:As you say Stella, it makes you wonder which apartments they were really in. I sometimes wonder if the McCanns were ever in 5a, as there was so little stuff of theres about. Just a few items hanging in the wardrobe, and Stella mentioned before, no sign of any suitcases anywhere. Also no DNA anywhere. There is also the matter of I think it was MO saying that Madeleines bedroom had 2 windows, which I think he mentions twice in statements.
This is precisely why I think on arrival they were appointed these rooms on paper only, but someone in authority gave them much better accomodation as a freebie.

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by MyBrainHurts on 09.08.11 8:01

so if they were staying somewhere else why would Maddy's death scent be found in 5a?

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Re: Fiona Payne and those alleged room upgrades

Post by Guest on 09.08.11 8:11

5a could have been used by someone else and all the children were looked after there every night.

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