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Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by pennylane on 20.07.11 18:21

@PeterMac wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
Now that Stephenson and Yates have been whooshed, and there is intense focus on the integrity of the Met, perhaps there is room for cautious optimism in that the Maddie Review will start from the beginning, by investigating the McCanns and their ridiculous, ever changing, version of events.
That is certainly my hope. Whatever DCI Redwood does will be scrutinised by ever more senior staff, and the final report will hang over him and his future career forever. He has to do it properly, and has to be seen to have examined all possible avenues of enquiry.
For him it could mean promotion.
By the way, is it just my imagination, or have Katey and Gerry and Clarrie been very quiet over the last few weeks since all these enquiries started ?


They are very quiet all of a sudden, and I reckon it's due to white knuckle fear!

Mitchell is probably hoping the dust will settle, and that nobody will emphasise his own sleazy links... but I reckon the press will continue to regurgitate his 'Kate and Gerry' articles containing his numerous quotes...... just to make him feel even greener around the gills.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.07.11 18:21

@pennylane wrote:Thank you for supplying the details of your phone call Tony! I read it with my mouth open... what brilliant questions you asked Sam Witherspoon.... you definitely got down to the nitty gritty.... all very encouraging, and I hope they really are going to look at all angles as the intelligence officer inferred....

Certainly now is the time to up the pressure on the Met.... just in case someone at the top thinks they can 'pass go' and jump straight to Jane Tanner's ridiculous abductor sighting and dodgy alibi for Gerry McCann. They need to know how many people are watching them!

That was very encouraging to read, thank you again, and I hope you receive a decent reply to your excellent letter. Hopefully we will see justice after all.
pennylane, first of all thanks very much for your kind comments.

At this juncture I think it's worth noting that, in relation to the 'phone hacking scandal, it was one lone journalist, Nick Davies: http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nickdavies ...

...who persisted for years, burrowing away at the extent of 'phone hacking, who is largely responsible for the whole matter burst on the scene like a dam breaking. And he did it against a background of the NOTW and NewsCorp denying there was a problem, and the top brass of the Metropolitan Police glibly saying there was 'nothing to investigate'. Now we know differently.

I don't think we have grasped sufficiently that this Scotland Yard Review into Madeleine's disappearance means that the disgraceful Leicestershire Police Force is now effectively out of the picture and that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood and members of his team have, in a sense, a clean sheet to work on. They can look at all the documents and consider afresh where the balance of the evidence leads.

They won't, I am sure, be posting up a link on their website to the McCanns' 'Find Madeleine Fund'.

The main anxiety is: are they there, as David Cameron said on 12 May when announcing the Review, 'to support the family'?

Or is their purpose: 'to carry out a thorough review into all the evidence without fear or favour'?

That is what I am trying to tease out from them.

I would encourage others to contact the Review Team to suggest what lines of enquiry they should pursue. Our letters should be polite, reasoned, and detailed. Let us remember, as I think PeterMac has pointed out, that Met Police Officers working on this Review will have a greatly enhanced awareness of their duty to be scrupulously fair, thorough and honest in their investigations. It would be wholly dishonest of them to rule out in advance the evidence that Madeleine McCann died in her parents' holiday apartment. The reputation of the officers on this team will depend on how they carry out their task.

The more good, reasoned letters they get from people like members of this forum, the greater will be the pressure on the Review Team's leaders to investigate the McCanns and their friends. They will have to record in their policy files hpw and why they have responded to any evidence supplied to them.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by aiyoyo on 21.07.11 6:09

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Thank you for supplying the details of your phone call Tony! I read it with my mouth open... what brilliant questions you asked Sam Witherspoon.... you definitely got down to the nitty gritty.... all very encouraging, and I hope they really are going to look at all angles as the intelligence officer inferred....

Certainly now is the time to up the pressure on the Met.... just in case someone at the top thinks they can 'pass go' and jump straight to Jane Tanner's ridiculous abductor sighting and dodgy alibi for Gerry McCann. They need to know how many people are watching them!

That was very encouraging to read, thank you again, and I hope you receive a decent reply to your excellent letter. Hopefully we will see justice after all.
pennylane, first of all thanks very much for your kind comments.

At this juncture I think it's worth noting that, in relation to the 'phone hacking scandal, it was one lone journalist, Nick Davies: http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nickdavies ...

...who persisted for years, burrowing away at the extent of 'phone hacking, who is largely responsible for the whole matter burst on the scene like a dam breaking. And he did it against a background of the NOTW and NewsCorp denying there was a problem, and the top brass of the Metropolitan Police glibly saying there was 'nothing to investigate'. Now we know differently.

I don't think we have grasped sufficiently that this Scotland Yard Review into Madeleine's disappearance means that the disgraceful Leicestershire Police Force is now effectively out of the picture and that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood and members of his team have, in a sense, a clean sheet to work on. They can look at all the documents and consider afresh where the balance of the evidence leads.

They won't, I am sure, be posting up a link on their website to the McCanns' 'Find Madeleine Fund'.

I wonder whether the review team is aware find Madeleine fund is linked onto LP's website. While they are reviewing the case one would have thought they should ask LP to remove it because they have yet to determine the legitimacy of the fund.
We know its a fraud but the Police while investigating should not be seen to be biased and take a one-sided view because that shows blatant inability to be objective.


The main anxiety is: are they there, as David Cameron said on 12 May when announcing the Review, 'to support the family'?

Or is their purpose: 'to carry out a thorough review into all the evidence without fear or favour'?

That is what I am trying to tease out from them.

I would encourage others to contact the Review Team to suggest what lines of enquiry they should pursue. Our letters should be polite, reasoned, and detailed. Let us remember, as I think PeterMac has pointed out, that Met Police Officers working on this Review will have a greatly enhanced awareness of their duty to be scrupulously fair, thorough and honest in their investigations. It would be wholly dishonest of them to rule out in advance the evidence that Madeleine McCann died in her parents' holiday apartment. The reputation of the officers on this team will depend on how they carry out their task.

The more good, reasoned letters they get from people like members of this forum, the greater will be the pressure on the Review Team's leaders to investigate the McCanns and their friends. They will have to record in their policy files hpw and why they have responded to any evidence supplied to them.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 7:45

I will be sending Andy Redwood a full analysis of all the MW and OC documentation quite soon. I'm sure they have enough to read for the time being from Tony and Kiko and we don't want to overwhelm them all at once, now do we.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Gillyspot on 21.07.11 8:05

I will write also to the team. I haven't heard from my MP as yet but wasn't expecting to but now I hear the wonderful Cressida Dick (of n Jean Charles de Menezes fame) is now in post I am imagining that I will get a letter saying all is well at the Met now. And this is bearing in mind that she was in charge of the "gold room" when he was shot.

Have been having a thought that maybe it isn't the Mccann's who are being protected but either Mark Warner owners or Ian Symington they were certainly a lot more connected?


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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.07.11 8:17

Stella wrote:I will be sending Andy Redwood a full analysis of all the MW and OC documentation quite soon. I'm sure they have enough to read for the time being from Tony and Kiko and we don't want to overwhelm them all at once, now do we.
Just to clarify that I have not sent them any information or analysis yet. I am waiting for them to reply on the written record that they will be pursuing any reasonable line of enquiry and that they have not ruled out in advance the possibility that Madeleine McCann died in her parents' apartment.

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Were both the McCanns and Mark Warner engaged in criminal activity?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.07.11 8:26

honeybunch wrote:I will write also to the team. I haven't heard from my MP as yet but wasn't expecting to but now I hear the wonderful Cressida Dick (of Jean Charles de Menezes fame) is now in post I am imagining that I will get a letter saying all is well at the Met now. And this is bearing in mind that she was in charge of the "gold room" when he was shot.

Have been having a thought that maybe it isn't the McCanns who are being protected but either Mark Warner owners or Ian Symington, they were certainly a lot more connected?
honeybunch, I don't think it is an either/or situation.

The fact that Mark Warner drafted in such high profile public relations and reputation managers from Day One, when in theory Madeleine could have been found any day if she'd really been abducted (or wandered off), suggests that Mark Warner had culpability for whatever happened to Madeleine. The McCanns also had culpability, obviously. When you look at the huge list of those who rushed out to Praia da Luz...

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t636-the-people-who-rushed-out-to-praia-da-luz?highlight=rushed

...during the days after Madeleine disappeared (and there are suggestions that one or two of them might have been in place before the abduction alarm was raised), it points to something criminal having taken place that week...sex, or drugs, or both? - and with the connivance of Mark Warner.

I see that the power-crazy Rebekah Brooks has now pulled in David Wilson from Bell Pottinger to help preserve her reputation, the same firm that rushed out to Praia da Luz after 3 May 2007.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by pauline on 21.07.11 9:06

i just clicked on the link in Tony's post to read 'those who rushed out to PDL' but got a message access restricted - what is this about and how do i become part of the elite who can read this/

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 9:34

You should not have received any message Pauline, as that thread is in the Library which is open to all. It's the very last topic on page 2.

Can you access the Library ?

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 9:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Stella wrote:I will be sending Andy Redwood a full analysis of all the MW and OC documentation quite soon. I'm sure they have enough to read for the time being from Tony and Kiko and we don't want to overwhelm them all at once, now do we.
Just to clarify that I have not sent them any information or analysis yet. I am waiting for them to reply on the written record that they will be pursuing any reasonable line of enquiry and that they have not ruled out in advance the possibility that Madeleine McCann died in her parents' apartment.

In that case, I will step up a gear and send it to them in the next few days.

Thanks Tony.

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Restricted access

Post by Marian on 21.07.11 9:41

I got the same message too. Pauline, it's the very last topic under Research and Analysis Library.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by pauline on 21.07.11 9:46

Thanks Stella.

I had never accessed the library before - it looks fascinating - and I probably I won't get any work done this week now!

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by pennylane on 21.07.11 9:50

Big Vern and Tony, thank you for your replies. flower

As I posted earlier, I am only cautiously optimistic...

I absolutely agree that the McCanns have had unprecedented protection, and that this Review may well be a whitewash due to the heavies that helped them, now having to protect their own hides from getting caught up in the curse of the McCanns. I'm particularly concerned that the Home Office and the FSS may have sabotaged the truth from emerging.... and if damaging information on the McCanns or perhaps Maddie's health was held back from the PJ, then a very, very tangled web has been woven!

Is it not possible however, that the McCanns themselves are not privy to the names of those heavies who worked to get this case put to bed, for whatever reasons? The gruesome twosome may have merely been following pinky's advice and his assurances of success, during which he skilfully never uttered a single name of his dubious contacts, taking care to protect both them and himself in the event it all went pear shaped. Do you see where I am coming from? Much like a defence attorney who knows his client is guilty but never verbalises it. Perhaps the gruesome twosome are disposable after all... and possibly those that helped them thus far will throw them to the wolves, rather than continuing to clean up their messes, not knowing what's coming next..... particularly in the present climate of things!

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The people who rushed out to PDL

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.07.11 10:31

@pauline wrote:I just clicked on the link in Tony's post to read 'those who rushed out to PDL' but got a message access restricted - what is this about and how do I become part of the elite who can read this?

I do not know why the message comes up that the article is 'restricted', but here is the article anyway: the list is not complete by the way, there were others that rushed out - and so please inform me if I've missed out any important people who rushed out to help the McCanns:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm compiling an article which will try to list all those who rushed out to Praia da Luz during May to assist the McCanns.

I don't mean journalists and TV crews, I mean people who seem to have gone to, well, help the McCanns, rather than to look for Madeleine.

It's not even at the first draft stage yet, but I thought this might be a good forum on which to seek further information.

Here is the article, which I shall update regularly as more information (hopefully) is received.

Tony

- 0 - 0 - 0 -

Here's a provisional list, without checking all the references and links:

Alex Woolfall

Came out almost immediately, Head of Crisis Management at Bell Pottinger. In other words, one of the top dogs at one of the nation's top media manipulation, sorry, public relations firms

Clarence Mitchell

Head of the government's Media Monitoring Unit at the time, whose job he boasted was 'to control what come sout in the media'. Came out in May, and has been the McCanns' chief public relations adviser ever since. No doubt he would have been involved in government decision-making about the case from Day One - indeed he boasted that before coming to Praia da Luz he had persuaded Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor to arrange for the McCanns to meet the Pope

David Hopkins, Managing Director of Mark Warners

(see below under CCP heading)

Three (?) police officers from Leicestershire Police

Including Superintendent/Commander Bob Small, who advised Jane Tanner on 13 May shortly before she adamantly identified Robert Murat as the abductor she''d seen 10 days earlier

British Embassy and Consular Officials

Control Risks Group

Two men from CRG had discussions with the McCanns and were certrainly there within days, despite Dr Gerald McCann saying in late May to a TV interviewer that they had no plans to employ private investigators. They were Kenneth Farrow and Michael Keenan. Mr Farrow is the ex-head of the Economic Crime Unit in the City of London Police and Mr Keenan an ex-Superintendent from the Metropolitan Police with specialist fraud and investigative experience. On 25 May 2007, just 22 days after Madeleine was reported missing, in a BBC interview with Jane Hill, the McCanns were asked if, now that they had already netted £300,000 in their ‘No Stone Unturned’ fund, they would use any of that money for private investigators. Dr Gerry McCann responded: “The advice we have received is that private investigations will not help at the moment”. Despite this clear claim, a private investigation agency known as Control Risks Group announced in September that they had been helping the McCanns since May and ‘were in regular contact’ with them throughout. Iin the early afternoon of Sunday 13 May 2007, Jane Tanner, one of the McCanns’ friends and the person who says she saw an abductor, spoke to ‘some of the people that Kate and Gerry brought in’. She was referring to Control Risks Group. Who brought them in and who agreed to pay for them? Why were Control Risks Group brought in so soon? To help find a missing child? Or for other reasons?

Foreign and Commonwealth Office staff

Sheree Dodd? - or were there others?

Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP)

The shadowy group from Skipton, supposedly experienced in disaster counselling, who sent out two of its top people within two days of Madeleine disappearing, to give counselling to the McCanns. They came out very early indeed, considering that there was at that time a real possibility that Madeleine could be found.

On Monday 14th May, the Craven Herald [Yorkshire Newspaper] had carried the following report:

“Two specialist trauma counsellors from Skipton have flown out to Portugal to help the devastated parents of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann. Consultants Alan Pike and Martin Alderton from the Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP), based at Broughton Hall, have been by the side of Gerry and Kate McCann since their daughter Madeleine was abducted…The two experts were appointed by Mark Warner, the company which manages the resort, to assist Mr and Mrs McCann, both 38, on how best to deal with the stress and trauma of their terrible ordeal…

“Mr Pike, who is leading the team, flew over to the resort with Mark Warner managing director, David Hopkins, the day after Madeleine disappeared. Mr Alderton, who has counselled those affected by major disasters across the country, arrived the following day. A spokesman for Mark Warner said: ‘The Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP) came highly recommended by industry partners and have been known to us for some time. Their experience in dealing with a variety of incidents is second to none’.

“Staff from the Skipton centre also visited Mark Warner's head office in London to offer counselling to employees last Wednesday. A spokesman for the Skipton centre said: ‘We are working with Mark Warner and cannot discuss any information because of commercial confidentiality. We have got two trauma consultants working on the incident. Everyone all over the country has been gripped, it is a very difficult case’. Mr Pike's experience in trauma work includes domestic violence and abuse, child abuse, emergency planning and assessment, and adoption.

Since joining CCP in 2004, he has been involved in consulting with companies following road traffic accidents, personal attacks, terrorist bombings, shootings, robberies, drowning and staff bereavement. Mr Alderton provided clinical support following the 2003 Manchester motorway minibus crash in which seven people died”.

That was a very heavy degree of involvement from this Skipton-based group from a very early stage. On 4th May, both Mark Warner’s managing director, David Hopkins, and Alan Pike, flew out to Praia da Luz. An unspecified number of Mark Warners’ staff were ‘counselled’ at Mark Warners HQ. Already, it was clear that this was no ordinary case. The ‘Craven Herald’ added for good measure: “The focus has shifted from a local search for Madeleine to an international child abduction inquiry, amid suggestions she may have been taken out of Portugal”.

From this report we may deduce that, already, Skipton was very close to the nerve centre of the operation to support the McCanns. The company CCP appears to have been deployed in the past by Richard Branson, who of course has strongly and financially backed the McCanns, and who also is or was the President of the ‘UK Citizens Arrested Abroad Committee'.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by joyce1938 on 21.07.11 12:59

hi all here,did anyone by chance see the man who was sent to jail from murdoch ?last night? his name is mr mulcaire. he was the man that murdoch was still paying legal fees for,till yesterday when it was stopped. he was interviewed and he remarked ,no he will not speak now,then said BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ,I WONT.he could really open up a bag of worms into all areas it seems,maybe we will see something that could give more info on our case we have been going into all this time joyce1938

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 13:05

@joyce1938 wrote:hi all here,did anyone by chance see the man who was sent to jail from murdoch ?last night? his name is mr mulcaire. he was the man that murdoch was still paying legal fees for,till yesterday when it was stopped. he was interviewed and he remarked ,no he will not speak now,then said BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ,I WONT.he could really open up a bag of worms into all areas it seems,maybe we will see something that could give more info on our case we have been going into all this time joyce1938


Hi joyce, you're right. He's not going to be very happy about NI not paying for his legal fees any more. It is unbelievable that were up until their decision to stop yesterday! Things may get rather interesting. thinking

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 14:37

Thanks Joyce I do hope so.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by aiyoyo on 21.07.11 15:13

Jr Murdoch is in for nice surprises (not) then for having ditched his ex-PI who had taken the rap for the company last time round. No moral obligation to the company now so fess up time now isnt it?
Interesting time ahead.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by PeterMac on 21.07.11 18:38

I have a horrible feeling that Mulcaire may be found seriously dead in circumstances which will not be at all suspicious in the fairly near future.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by aiyoyo on 22.07.11 1:43

@PeterMac wrote:I have a horrible feeling that Mulcaire may be found seriously dead in circumstances which will not be at all suspicious in the fairly near future.

He should ask for police protection if he's prepared to tell all, but I doubt Mulcaire will be in danger because the reason would be too obvious. Besides if Mulcaire is smart he would have handed evidence together with notes to someone else for safekeeping for that eventuality.

It was reported in the Guardian jr murdoch misled select committee, so he's not out of the sewer yet. When evidence comes to light about that he'd in fact committed perjury and this is only the start for him.
He has hang too many of his sr execs (ex editor and ex in house lawyer) out to dry and there's going to be pay back time, mark my words.
Even their retainer lawyer is breaking client confidentiality and testifying against the murdochs.

These people murdochs betrayed are not going to let them wrecked their reputation without a fight. Hopefully not all email evidence against them are destroyed b/c sometimes people delete mails when mailbox gets too congested.

It would be a miracle if RB and Jr Murdoch walk free from this.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/21/james-murdoch-select-committee-evidence

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Gillyspot on 22.07.11 7:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:
honeybunch wrote:....Have been having a thought that maybe it isn't the McCanns who are being protected but either Mark Warner owners or Ian Symington, they were certainly a lot more connected?
honeybunch, I don't think it is an either/or situation.....

Sorry Tony I wasn't clear (well I was but I put it wrong).

I meant to say that that if this had happened at a resort not owned by powerful people and the Symington family certainly are that, that the McCann's would not have received this huge level of support and protection.

The Symington are an old aristocratic family that have been in the Port shipping business (making 1/3 of the port produced) in Oporto for generations and produce some of the world's finest Port wines. David Symington was part owner of the Ocean Club and on their site in history it states "There are still strong connections between The Ocean Club and this famous family"

John Garveigh (also part owner of Ocean Club) has a Portuguese who has connections to the Portuguese nobility.

The site is www.luzoceanclub.com/palmbay/history.html

The fact that Angus Symington (son of David Symington joint owner of the Ocean Club - at the time) is Robert Murats 4th cousin and yet the press although noting the remarkable likeness didn't seem to see the connection between them. Robert Murat must have known and met Angus as they were both in the same business (property management/estate agency) and as said in the Daily Mail Angus's "office at Ocean Country Real Estate is a few hundred yards from Kate and Gerry McCann's holiday apartment"

Indeed the best that I can find in any press is that Angus is "A British businessman with access to the Ocean Club".

So they are trying to tell us that in a "sleepy" holiday resort these two had never met? Indeed as Robert Murat said.

"Mr Murat, 34, was shown a photograph of Mr Symington and said: "I'm shocked, I'm amazed by the likeness.
"The hairline and the nose, it could be me. Only the chin is different.
"I will show this photograph to my lawyer and I hope he will raise it with the Policia Judiciaria."

Pull the other one it has bells on!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-510083/Madeleine-Witnesses-mistaken-suspect-Robert-Murat-British-double.html

There is a lot more about the Symingtons but I hope that this is a start.


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Was something criminal going on?

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.07.11 9:33

honeybunch wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
honeybunch wrote:...Have been having a thought that maybe it isn't the McCanns who are being protected but either Mark Warner owners or Ian Symington, they were certainly a lot more connected?
honeybunch, I don't think it is an either/or situation.....

Sorry Tony I wasn't clear (well I was but I put it wrong).

I meant to say that that if this had happened at a resort not owned by powerful people and the Symington family certainly are that, that the McCanns would not have received this huge level of support and protection.

The Symingtons are an old aristocratic family...David Symington was part owner of the Ocean Club and on their site in history it states: "There are still strong connections between The Ocean Club and this famous family".

The fact that Angus Symington (son of David Symington joint owner of the Ocean Club - at the time) is Robert Murats 4th cousin and yet the press, although noting the remarkable likeness, didn't seem to see the connection between them. Robert Murat must have known and met Angus as they were both in the same business (property management/estate agency)..."Mr Murat, 34, was shown a photograph of Mr Symington and said: 'I'm shocked, I'm amazed by the likeness...'"

There is a lot more about the Symingtons but I hope that this is a start.
The Symington family connections have been explored on a blog called 'thesergeantsinn' - and I've looked at all the material there.

I'm not sure how much it helps to delve into that, though, honeybunch - the question is: exactly what is it about Madeleine's disappearance that caused such a massive level of government activity, including MI5 and secret service type groups like Control Risks Group, to become involved, and so quickly and in such large numbers? Was it to help find a missing child? Or to locate an abductor?

The only thing perhaps that is relevant about the Symingtons is that if something illegal was going on amongst Ocean Club guests that week, then people like David Symington would no doubt have been aware of it.

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by jd on 22.07.11 17:42

This is really interesting info re the Symingtons/Ocean Club connections. One of the many strange things about this case is KM saying 'THEY have taken her' which more than suggests she knew who had taken Maddie and wasn't expecting this to happen. Port shipping company leads me to suspect that if Maddie was taken then this would be a way of getting her out of the country undetected as there would be connections, not directly linked to the Symington family, but maybe employees or someone that knew how to easily get her onto one of their ships without anyone else knowing. Underworld ring perhaps? Its also interesting that Murat is also related as a 4th cousin

I am confused as to who actually owns that apartment? this could shed light to why they went there in the first place, and be key to finding out the truth. Reading the mccanfiles I came across a piece taken from Martin Brunts blog (sky news reporter) which says that apartment 5A was owned by a Woman called Ruth McCann! quoted below:

""The apartment is owned by Ruth Margaret McCann, who is unrelated to the McCanns according to family spokesperson Clarence Mitchell. The apartment A, number 5, locate at Rua Dr. Agostinho da Silva, Montes da Luz Urbanization, Praia da luz, is registered with the number 3666. In 2001 the house was bought by a kind of society belonging to Daniel John Aldred, his daughter Donna Michelle Aldred (from his first marriage), Michael William McCann and his wife, Ruth Margaret McCann. Michael McCann born in Devonport, Plymouth was a widower when he married Margaret Ruth Pittaway, 53, who was also widowed in 1987. In 2005, Michael and Ruth bought the part of the Aldred couple giving each of them 50% of the apartment. Later in July 2006 Michael McCann died in Liverpool and in November of the same year Ruth McCann inherited his part becoming the only proprietor.

Martin Brunt, Sky News Crime Correspondent, said in his blog of 20 December 2007 that he had asked the McCanns spokesperson, Clarence Mitchell, why the apartment from where Madeleine disappeared was registered to an owner called McCann. Brunt says: "I had to pester him for an answer, which only added to my suspicion that it was Gerry and Kate's second home and for some reason they had pretended it was a holiday rental. We finally nailed it. The place belongs to a Ruth McCann, a teacher in Liverpool (where Kate is from), who inherited it from her late husband. She told us she was no relation to Madeleine's family and hoped she wouldn't be pestered after my inquiry. In fact, she was more interested in learning whether she was likely to get compensation from the police who have, at last, kept the apartment as a locked crime scene.

The chance of the McCanns renting a holiday home from someone of the same name is 7,500-to-one.""


Also, it is stated that GM in the first 30 mins after supposedly knowing Maddie had gone, phoned a good friend of his who just happened to be a diplomat and a close aide to Gordon Brown. At this particular time I would be panicked to be looking for my child rather than phoning a Gordon Brown aide! Coincidence or not that someone there also had connections direct to Sky and BBC news

There is something in all this which I can't quite put my finger on yet







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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.07.11 18:03

@jd wrote:This is really interesting info re the Symingtons/Ocean Club connections. One of the many strange things about this case is KM saying 'THEY have taken her' which more than suggests she knew who had taken Maddie and wasn't expecting this to happen.

What evidence is there that she actually said this?

For that matter, what evidence is there that she actually ran down to the Tapas bar as claimed?

Port shipping company leads me to suspect that if Maddie was taken then this would be a way of getting her out of the country undetected as there would be connections, not directly linked to the Symington family, but maybe employees or someone that knew how to easily get her onto one of their ships without anyone else knowing. Underworld ring perhaps? Its also interesting that Murat is also related as a 4th cousin

What is much more interesting than that is that sniffer dogs employed by one of the world's top dog handlers found the scent of a corpse in 10 places associated with the McCanns in Praia da Luz, but nowhere else in Praia da Luz

I am confused as to who actually owns that apartment?

Yes it was Ruth McCann. I am not sure this takes us much further.

Also, it is stated that GM in the first 30 mins after supposedly knowing Maddie had gone, phoned a good friend of his who just happened to be a diplomat and a close aide to Gordon Brown. At this particular time I would be panicked to be looking for my child rather than phoning a Gordon Brown aide! Coincidence or not that someone there also had connections direct to Sky and BBC News.

That's just one of many things about the behaviour of the McCanns and their friends which contradicts the claim that Madeleine was abducted. Take: ripping out the front cover of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book and writing up two fabricated time lines on it. Or try: Jane Tanner not talking to the McCanns about seeing a man carrying a child until 24 hours later.

There is something in all this which I can't quite put my finger on yet...

Lies?

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Re: Is Scotland Yard fit to carry out Madeleine McCann Review?

Post by jd on 22.07.11 22:40

This is really interesting info re the Symingtons/Ocean Club connections. One of the many strange things about this case is KM saying 'THEY have taken her' which more than suggests she knew who had taken Maddie and wasn't expecting this to happen.

What evidence is there that she actually said this?

For that matter, what evidence is there that she actually ran down to the Tapas bar as claimed?

There are witness statements that say this is what she was first heard screaming. Only the family who weren't there have denied the words KM said, funny that!..... Quote "The first eyewitness account was made by nanny Charlotte Pennington, who claims that Kate McCann did scream: "They've taken her, they've taken her!" Charlotte Pennington is considered a vital witness by Portuguese detectives with whom she spent more than four-and-a-half hours giving a statement.She said: "I was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone. When we were coming out we saw Kate and she was screaming: 'They've taken her, they've taken her!' I was standing right in front of her outside the apartment's back door, in the alleyway.I was very close to her. It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. I was one of three Mark Warner staff who saw her shouting it. They have all given statements to the Portuguese police saying that""unquote.....

There is also a statement from the woman who lived in the apartment upstairs who said she screamed the same words (and also that she heard Maddie crying loudly all the time until 2 days before the 3rd when in the middle of a crying fit Maddie abruptly stopped and was never heard crying again)


Port shipping company leads me to suspect that if Maddie was taken then this would be a way of getting her out of the country undetected as there would be connections, not directly linked to the Symington family, but maybe employees or someone that knew how to easily get her onto one of their ships without anyone else knowing. Underworld ring perhaps? Its also interesting that Murat is also related as a 4th cousin

What is much more interesting than that is that sniffer dogs employed by one of the world's top dog handlers found the scent of a corpse in 10 places associated with the McCanns in Praia da Luz, but nowhere else in Praia da Luz

This says enough in itself. I've watched the video of the dogs doing their work and how they went mad in these areas. If for arguements sake the death scent doesn't belong to the McCanns, then someone has died in that apartment previously, is this a death no-one knows or reported about then! Hardly! On KM's clothes she said she had been near a dead body a few weeks previous, but why on earth would anyone wear the same clothes on holiday!! What does one wear when they touch dead bodies in their profession..jeans and t-shirts! Total rubbish. Also, why did KM wash the toy cat!!!! only answer is to try and rid of the evidence. Any true grieving parent would never have washed that cat because this has the last known contact of Maddie on it. KM said that the abductor had taken the cat from Maddie and put it on the top shelf above her bed....however, the first picture taken of the room shows there was no shelf in that room!!

I am confused as to who actually owns that apartment?

Yes it was Ruth McCann. I am not sure this takes us much further.

I think this is something definitely worth exploring. It could explain why they went there in the first place as there is some unknown reason why all on that trip where there together. Knowing if Ruth Mccann is secretly related somehow could put us on the right road to getting to the bottom of the truth. Personally I think this is important as whatever the cover up is, it has to have started from somewhere

Also, it is stated that GM in the first 30 mins after supposedly knowing Maddie had gone, phoned a good friend of his who just happened to be a diplomat and a close aide to Gordon Brown. At this particular time I would be panicked to be looking for my child rather than phoning a Gordon Brown aide! Coincidence or not that someone there also had connections direct to Sky and BBC News.

That's just one of many things about the behaviour of the McCanns and their friends which contradicts the claim that Madeleine was abducted. Take: ripping out the front cover of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book and writing up two fabricated time lines on it. Or try: Jane Tanner not talking to the McCanns about seeing a man carrying a child until 24 hours later.


Yes my thoughts exactly when I first read about this. I had to re-read over again the fact that they had ripped the front cover of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book and wrote up two fabricated time lines on it. I was flabbergasted. Still can't get my head around this one and why on earth anyone would do this. And Jane Tanner, we all know that faced in this same situation, anyone would volunteer this information immediately...24 hours later no way.

re the first call on the night...quote "Between 10.00 and 10.50 pm The first call that Gerry made on the night of the crime was to Alistair Clark, a good friend from university days and a diplomat who is close to Gordon Brown. Clark made contacts at the highest level and - before Policia Judiciaria - already Sky News and the British Ambassador were being informed about the abduction. (Correio da Manhã 14, September 2007, no link but translated report here)" unquote.....so extremely odd


There is something in all this which I can't quite put my finger on yet...
Lies?

ABSOLUTELY 100%

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