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Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

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Why did the McCanns request an extra bed

Post by sijm on 23.12.11 17:15

Hello.

What I meant was, the extra bed could have been for Justine before they decided to hire that small flat for her back at Ocean Club.

One other thing that niggles at me is the (demonic alien) Kate said she had been possessed by in her book, this seems such a strange term to use for a RC don't you think? Alien Yikes!

The Pope most certainly would not want to be associated with such a person me thinks.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 23.12.11 17:42

What is interesting about the Pope, is that at the time it was high profile in the news and most peoples heart strings were touched & being sensitive especially catholics....so for the Vatican to pull their support from their website so quickly in this situation, they must have had very strong reasons why...and clearly not ones that support the mccanns story

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Shibboleth on 23.12.11 21:27

The McCann had a nannie at home, perhaps it was the original plan for the nannie to come with the family on the holiday, and she would need a bed. I read once that this was the plan but the nannie had to go to Canada at the last moment, and could not go to Portugal.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 24.12.11 11:56

I possibly have a better explanation.

Fiona and David made the bookings for everyone. Fiona said that she and David were the only ones to 'book a 2 bed'. All the others somehow 'ended up with a 2 bed'. Which could be why the McCann's originally requested an extra bed (for Madeleine), with the 'intention' of staying in a 1 bed apartment. At some point after they arrived, their MW reservation must have been changed to show a 2 bed, but someone forgot to remove the extra bed request, as that line appears in a place where everyone thought it related to the Payne booking.

Given Fiona's testimony, I cannot see any other explanation at the moment.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 24.12.11 22:25

Great stuff! I have just read through this entire thread which initially causes quite some confusion, but as I got to about one page to go I realised with one little tweak the whole thing made sense, well most of it! And what do I find? On the very last post Stella has arrived at the very same conclusion!! Kid you not. Great chuckles!

It has to be. Fiona says they are the only ones that booked a two bed appt and she should know as they allegedly dealt with the whole thing. The Paynes don’t need an extra bed for her mother because they already have 4.

So the McCann’s book a single and need an extra bed for Maddie. But when they all arrive for some reason everyone has been upgraded to two bed appts (“because of”.....?) yet the extra bed as per original booking has unnecessarily still been added to one of the twin bed appts.

Now it seems the extra bed is not in G5A, but if it is in G5H, well then, all makes sense does it not?? If G5H is the appt with the extra bed, then this must have been the room originally allocated for the McCanns and the Paynes who simply ordered two bedrooms would have been G5A. But for some reason they seemingly swapped – when on the face of it there really wasn’t any reason to. All makes sense, really does.

Unfortunately it’s of next to no value if the fact that the booking form showing T2 against the McCann reservation cannot be accounted for. If it said T1, all falls into place. Excellent spot again Stella!

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 24.12.11 23:11

Of course if the above theory is right, that G5H was originally the appt allocated to the McCanns because it had the extra bed, then one other piece would need to fall into place to nail down an 'inexplicable' swap....

On the booking form it shows 1 cot requested for the Paynes and 2 for the McCanns' twins. If this is the case there would have been two cots in 5h and one in 5A, therefore one cot would have needed to be moved downstairs. If this happened I think we can reasonably infer they swapped but for some reason never mentioned it.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 25.12.11 6:37

@monkey mind wrote:Of course if the above theory is right, that G5H was originally the appt allocated to the McCanns because it had the extra bed, then one other piece would need to fall into place to nail down an 'inexplicable' swap....

On the booking form it shows 1 cot requested for the Paynes and 2 for the McCanns' twins. If this is the case there would have been two cots in 5h and one in 5A, therefore one cot would have needed to be moved downstairs. If this happened I think we can reasonably infer they swapped but for some reason never mentioned it.
Would this explain it monkey mind?

Stellaon Sat 02 Jul 2011, 10:10

ROSA wrote:

A guest ?



Or a mistake on the booking form. Which if had happened, David and Gerry surely would have explained this at the same time they mentioned having to move a cot on arrival !!!

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 25.12.11 10:06

That's right, Dave and Gerry talk about having to move one of the cots on the day.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 25.12.11 10:14

Rainbow-fairy,

Nope, the facts as shown above would not be explained by a guest, not to my satisfaction, anyway, we have no evidence of a guest.

What we are uncovering here potentially could be very significant.

Nor is my train of thought thinking of an error on the booking form other than the booking form showing the McCanns asT2 (instead of T1) along with the Paynes. I don’t believe that was the original request by the McCanns I believe their original booking was for one bedroom and that is why they requested the extra bed for Madeleine. This seems the only reasonable explanation for requesting an extra bed as confirmed by Fiona Payne who helped book the holiday saying that the Payne’s were the only ones to book a double bedroomed apt.

Where is it stated that Gerry and David had to move a cot on arrival? I haven’t seen this for myself as yet, and why and where do they say they moved the cot? If the theory is correct that they swapped apartments and never mentioned it then after examining the booking forms this is exactly what I would have expected to happen, in fact it HAD to happen. And they mentioned moving a cot but not apartments!

This is hugely significant and marries perfectly with the children being ‘inexplicably’ left alone every night. To help people grasp the import of this, consider this....

If the Paynes booked a two bedroom appt and were allocated G5A, then they got exactly what they asked for, three beds for three adults, one bed for one child and a cot for one infant.

If they Mcanns booked a one bedroom appt with extra bed plus two cots and were allocated G5H then they too got exactly what they ordered with the bonus of an extra bed and an extra room. If they ordered a two bedroom appt with the same additions and again were allocated 5H, they still got exactly what they wanted except this makes little sense as it would have cost more and according to K she thought it was expensive as it was. Either way there is no valid reason for the McCanns and Paynes to swap apartments a move that would have necessitated the moving of a cot down a flight of stairs.

Now consider that and then contemplate the location of appt 5A and what makes it a more likely target appt than 5H to a potential abductor.

Final question to anyone who may have read Ks book, does she anywhere in that book say something like cursing the fates for them ending up in apt 5A, you know that it was near the car park and that was kind of unlucky as it was easier to watch or recce than some of the other appts. Does anyone know if she said anything like that in her book or in any interview??

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Shibboleth on 25.12.11 10:16

A one bed apartment would be a lot cheaper than a double one. I would not like to go on holiday with a husband I rarely saw, and then share the bedroom with three small children. This makes me to think, they were in some financial troubles and had to save money.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 25.12.11 10:38

@monkey mind wrote:Where is it stated that Gerry and David had to move a cot on arrival? I haven’t seen this for myself as yet, and why and where do they say they moved the cot?

If you go to Dave's Rogatory Interview and word search for cot, you will find it. He touches on the subject in a very confused sort of way.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

David Payne Reply: ”Mm, err I think one of the things that I remember is there was difficulties you know we was trying to get the cots situation sorted out and I can’t remember, I mean I’ve thought about this when, you know because I went into Kate and Gerry’s apartment right, you know from the beginning to sort out one of the cots because I don’t think they, you know, there was a spare one they, they’d had or just to work that out, but err you know during, during the day as I say I, its such a long time ago and all I can remember is we were you know excited, we were going into one person’s apartment, having a chat and seeing where they’d been, err you know but I must admit I can’t give any detail really err regarding exactly who we chatted to or what, the rest of that day. Err you know we, you know we all went err to Millennium, again I, whether it was the Saturday night or the Sunday night I’m not, I can’t recall.”
1485 ”Mm.”

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 25.12.11 11:09

Thanks Stella,

Now that's a bumbling stumbling semi-literate verbal mess if ever I read one! I must read his statement, all of their statements, just haven't found enough hours in the day as yet :^)

Let me ask you, do you see as I do the significance of a potential appartment swap?

I would surely love to know if K in her book or in interview or G for that matter implies it was a cruel twist of fate or similar, which would be natural if it were a genuine abduction for the location of that apt in relation to others was indeed very significant.


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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 25.12.11 12:10

@monkey mind wrote:Thanks Stella,

Now that's a bumbling stumbling semi-literate verbal mess if ever I read one!

I agree. Something is amiss with that particular part of his statement.

I must read his statement, all of their statements, just haven't found enough hours in the day as yet :^)

That's the trouble. They are all full of so much waffle, you can easily miss the important bits.


Let me ask you, do you see as I do the significance of a potential appartment swap?

It is something I have often considered. The positioning of all of them just does not add up. Block 5 was quite empty, as I'm sure most of the apartments in other blocks were, so why have one upstairs and three downstairs? Why does the lists state G5D, Tanner & O'Brien's place was a T1 a one bed, yet Tanner describes her place as having 2 beds? It's all a big mess as far as I can see. There is one other little nugget in something Gerry said on Panorama;

"The twins were still sleeping in their cots. So... you'd be trying to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of the cots into their own apartment ".

They were already in their own apartment, so what did he mean by this comment?

I would surely love to know if K in her book or in interview or G for that matter implies it was a cruel twist of fate or similar, which would be natural if it were a genuine abduction for the location of that apt in relation to others was indeed very significant.

They did make a big thing about the vunerability of the position of that apartment, in many interviews, that's the thing.


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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 25.12.11 12:20

@monkey mind wrote:Rainbow-fairy,

Nope, the facts as shown above would not be explained by a guest, not to my satisfaction, anyway, we have no evidence of a guest.

What we are uncovering here potentially could be very significant.

Nor is my train of thought thinking of an error on the booking form other than the booking form showing the McCanns asT2 (instead of T1) along with the Paynes. I don’t believe that was the original request by the McCanns I believe their original booking was for one bedroom and that is why they requested the extra bed for Madeleine. This seems the only reasonable explanation for requesting an extra bed as confirmed by Fiona Payne who helped book the holiday saying that the Payne’s were the only ones to book a double bedroomed apt.

Where is it stated that Gerry and David had to move a cot on arrival? I haven’t seen this for myself as yet, and why and where do they say they moved the cot? If the theory is correct that they swapped apartments and never mentioned it then after examining the booking forms this is exactly what I would have expected to happen, in fact it HAD to happen. And they mentioned moving a cot but not apartments!

This is hugely significant and marries perfectly with the children being ‘inexplicably’ left alone every night. To help people grasp the import of this, consider this....

If the Paynes booked a two bedroom appt and were allocated G5A, then they got exactly what they asked for, three beds for three adults, one bed for one child and a cot for one infant.

If they Mcanns booked a one bedroom appt with extra bed plus two cots and were allocated G5H then they too got exactly what they ordered with the bonus of an extra bed and an extra room. If they ordered a two bedroom appt with the same additions and again were allocated 5H, they still got exactly what they wanted except this makes little sense as it would have cost more and according to K she thought it was expensive as it was. Either way there is no valid reason for the McCanns and Paynes to swap apartments a move that would have necessitated the moving of a cot down a flight of stairs.

Now consider that and then contemplate the location of appt 5A and what makes it a more likely target appt than 5H to a potential abductor.

Final question to anyone who may have read K's book, does she anywhere in that book say something like cursing the fates for them ending up in apt 5A, you know that it was near the car park and that was kind of unlucky as it was easier to watch or recce than some of the other appts. Does anyone know if she said anything like that in her book or in any interview??
monkey mind, I don't mind admitting, I'm really confused by this post? Either you misunderstood my post or I didn't fully understand what you were asking...
I wasn't talking about a guest. If you look again at my reply, saying 'would this explain it?' It was a quote of Stella's earlier reply. ROSA had asked 'A guest' Stella had posted about David Payne and Gerry moving a cot downstairs into another apartment.
To my mind, this backed up the Payne-McCann-apartment-swap. It was from an earlier page, I thought maybe you had missed it seeing as you were pondering on if beds/cots had been moved it would prove the explanation you were looking for. Sorry if one or both of us have misunderstood!
Regards Kate cursing the 'availability' of 5A, the answer is 'not to my knowledge'. Ok so my tongue is firmly in cheek as I say this but the only time she curses anything it is either Goncalo Amaral, Ricardo Paiva or other PJ tasked to find her child. Never seems to curse her own stupidity.
I should think it would be a big 'own goal' to comment on the accessibility of 5a in terms of abduction anyway, as it would enhance the already ridiculous notion of a supposedly intelligent woman leaving 3 children under 4, alone, in a foreign apartment and country. I don't personally believe they were alone, but that is the official story they've admitted to, so...
PeterMac is your man if you want to know about bits from the book.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by tigger on 25.12.11 12:36

@Shibboleth wrote:A one bed apartment would be a lot cheaper than a double one. I would not like to go on holiday with a husband I rarely saw, and then share the bedroom with three small children. This makes me to think, they were in some financial troubles and had to save money.

Well, your first reason may not be valid, but I'm pretty sure they were broke in 2007. Otherwise, why had the mortgage over the months of June and July that year to be paid from the fund?
What's more, I don't know where the story about the nanny came from, certainly they had one in Rothley, but if they could afford a nanny at home, surely paying for babysitters would have been cheaper than getting the nanny out to PdL? Huge amount saved.
No, for me the whole nanny story was part of their bad luck, the wrong apartment, nanny couldn't come, well, they did pretty well everything to keep the children safe, but everything went wrong.
The nanny went back to Canada, I think the McCs went there in 2007 or 2008, possibly with the twins. Was the bill settled then and there? My guess is that if they didn't have money to pay the mortgage, the credit cards were either non existent or were 'stolen', financial records were denied to the PJ. It's always the money for motive.
By the way, Shibboleth, I just saw a clip of Bethlehem on the news, hideous doesn't begin to describe it, more like a fairground than anything else.
Little reindeer round a flashing Christmas tree, yuk, yuk, yuk. Happy Chanooka!

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Shibboleth on 25.12.11 14:44

Tigger, it is horrid. Bethlehem is full of rubbish for tourists. There are Christmas lights and trees here, but they are okay mostly. There are many Christian families here who have trees, some Muslim families have trees too, and we can see them and admire them and it is nice to see the places all lighted up. We used to live in England and the children are used to Christmas, they just know that it is not our festival to celebrate. But we will be going out to a huge Xanukkah party in about an hour, it will probably last until midnite.

The nannie reason was perhaps too fanciful, but I also think that the McCann had money trouble before the holiday. When my husband lost his job, we had trouble to pay the mortgage, but the bank gave us a *holiday* of three month payments so that we could catch up. I do not believe that the McCann could not have the same, especially with the circumstances. Why did they have to use the fund money so quickly, to pay their personal expenses?

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by uppatoffee on 25.12.11 17:27

@monkey mind wrote:Thanks Stella,

Now that's a bumbling stumbling semi-literate verbal mess if ever I read one! I must read his statement, all of their statements, just haven't found enough hours in the day as yet :^)

Let me ask you, do you see as I do the significance of a potential appartment swap?

I would surely love to know if K in her book or in interview or G for that matter implies it was a cruel twist of fate or similar, which would be natural if it were a genuine abduction for the location of that apt in relation to others was indeed very significant.



Don't have the book to hand monkey mind, but I am sure that there was a paragraph along those lines stating how convenient they initially thought it was but then how the pj later told them it was a perfect adbuction location.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Tinkerbell81 on 25.12.11 19:29

She says the pj told her that the apartment was an ideal target for criminals but that it didnt enter her mind because she thought she was in a safe child friendly holiday park.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by tigger on 25.12.11 20:20

@Tinkerbell81 wrote:She says the pj told her that the apartment was an ideal target for criminals but that it didnt enter her mind because she thought she was in a safe child friendly holiday park.

Although on the trip to the beach they saw a suspicious man playing guitar, on various occasions they saw strange men, so despite their misgivings re these individuals, they felt safe.
Despite having been warned by OC staff that a number of burglaries had been committed in OC - even in the flat above 5a! - they felt safe.
These burglaries are a matter of record but are never mentioned by the McCanns who still felt safe enough to leave the door of the flat open. Allegedly.
Pick and Mix evidence.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by littlepixie on 26.12.11 0:47

No sane parent would ever leave their apartment door ajar at night with three tiny toddlers inside, alone. They are having us on.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 26.12.11 2:45

@tigger wrote:
@Tinkerbell81 wrote:She says the pj told her that the apartment was an ideal target for criminals but that it didnt enter her mind because she thought she was in a safe child friendly holiday park.

Although on the trip to the beach they saw a suspicious man playing guitar, on various occasions they saw strange men, so despite their misgivings re these individuals, they felt safe.
Despite having been warned by OC staff that a number of burglaries had been committed in OC - even in the flat above 5a! - they felt safe.
These burglaries are a matter of record but are never mentioned by the McCanns who still felt safe enough to leave the door of the flat open. Allegedly.
Pick and Mix evidence.

Despite leaving their kids with the resort nannies all day every day, they did not feel safe leaving them with the same resort nanny in the evenings!

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by aquila on 26.12.11 3:49

@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@Tinkerbell81 wrote:She says the pj told her that the apartment was an ideal target for criminals but that it didnt enter her mind because she thought she was in a safe child friendly holiday park.

Although on the trip to the beach they saw a suspicious man playing guitar, on various occasions they saw strange men, so despite their misgivings re these individuals, they felt safe.
Despite having been warned by OC staff that a number of burglaries had been committed in OC - even in the flat above 5a! - they felt safe.
These burglaries are a matter of record but are never mentioned by the McCanns who still felt safe enough to leave the door of the flat open. Allegedly.
Pick and Mix evidence.

Despite leaving their kids with the resort nannies all day every day, they did not feel safe leaving them with the same resort nanny in the evenings!

Too true JD. One thing that has always stuck out in my mind - as a mother, had I left my Son in a creche with total strangers on holiday I would have returned adhoc from day 1 just to check on things. What kind of family holiday was this exactly? Seems to me that child-friendly meant kids could be parked off for the majority of the day and ignored in the evening. There was quite a lot of emphasis on bedtime - from parents who had spent little time with their children. Call me old fashioned (I am) but to spend time with your children on holiday is one of life's pleasures. There is little evidence to me of it being a holiday about children and families. Madeleine was a keen swimmer we are given to believe even when the water is cold. Most Brit families abroad in my experience spend their time in and around the pool with their kids. OK, so the water was cold and the weather wasn't great but there's sandcastles to be built, trips into nearby towns, play areas....the things most ordinary people do with their children on holiday....but hey 'it was our holiday too'.

Normally on a family holiday we have a shedload of photos of the kids and before anyone thinks I'm being overly sentimental about family holidays I just don't get the diary entries about 'milk and biscuits' and 'bedtime stories' and 'cuddle cat'. Then there is the GM thing where he looks at his beautiful children asleep (can't remember the exact wording) - that captured moment.

I may not be very bright but I know when I'm being misled.

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by aiyoyo on 26.12.11 4:10

@littlepixie wrote:No sane parent would ever leave their apartment door ajar at night with three tiny toddlers inside, alone. They are having us on.

Too true. The security of the area was not an issue in this case neither was their facing the street apt.

The door ajar at night with three children sleeping alone is a story they cooked up as alibi for them.





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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by aquila on 26.12.11 4:18

@aiyoyo wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:No sane parent would ever leave their apartment door ajar at night with three tiny toddlers inside, alone. They are having us on.

Too true. The security of the area was not an issue in this case neither was their facing the street apt.

The door ajar at night with three children sleeping alone is a story they cooked up as alibi for them.





Too true IMO. At what point do we go from being vulnerable innocents abroad (given the fact that we'd lived abroad - NZ) to being naturally responsible parents? At what point do we go from being professional people with degrees and a reasonably confident command of the English language to the opposite?

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Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Shibboleth on 26.12.11 6:47

@littlepixie wrote:No sane parent would ever leave their apartment door ajar at night with three tiny toddlers inside, alone. They are having us on.

This is what I think, too. Even more after they at first said, the door was locked and the abductor came in through the window, after breaking the shutters. Then when this is proved to be a lie (no broken shutters), the door is unlocked. It is like magic. Or, like someone else just said, alibi for something else.


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“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” ~ Joseph Stalin, 1897-1953
"If Adolph Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway." ~ Joe Strummer, 1952-2002

Shibboleth

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Join date : 2010-10-16
Location : Jaffa - Tel Aviv

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