The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.


Jill Havern
Forum owner

Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Page 5 of 19 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 19  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 13:13

Hi Stella,

Quote: “"The twins were still sleeping in their cots. So... you'd be trying to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of the cots into their own apartment ".

This is a rather bizarre statement. When exactly was he referring to here and in what context? Was it the alleged fateful night the third? They were moved out of the apartment that night as witnessed by the police seeing the children didn’t wake up when moved. Do we know where they were moved to on that night?

Quote: “They did make a big thing about the vunerability of the position of that apartment, in many interviews, that's the thing.”

Well if you don’t believe in the abduction proposal, and without question the Portuguese police did not, and the evidence of the cadaver dogs in the Renault along with the 15 out of 19 genetic markers combined together are just a couple of things that make a mockery of such a proposal, and, if as the evidence suggests they may have moved apartments, from the first floor G5H, to G5A by the car park, well I would suggest that the location of G5A was the very reason for that move. After all, why would an abductor walk past a couple of apartments with unattended children and climb a flight of stairs to carry out his task. It is certainly a question that would have troubled the police.

I would also suggest that if the evidence makes a mockery of the abduction proposal then this also was the very reason for the children being left alone every night that week. In considering two scenarios of child abduction, one playing in the street vs one sleeping alone in an apartment, whilst in both instances the perpetrator needs motivation the first is more opportunist whilst the second needs planning. The perpetrator needs initially to become aware that the children are alone, either by lengthy observation or by being alerted by parents coming to and fro and telling people their children are home alone. This would then be followed by further observation before striking and the car park affords a perfect spot for such observation.

So while the location of the apt and the abandoning of the children every night afford perfect opportunity for an abductor, the Portuguese police believe such an abduction was staged, and the evidence of the Renault certainly tend to confirm this then they become equally important to lend credibility to the staging of an event, hence the significance of shifting apt if it happened.

And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K. Was this the real purpose of the last visit to the apt by G, to add the finishing touch? Only he wasn't able to go through with it because of his chance meeting with J in the street? He couldn't be certain that J would not over hear him forcing the window so he returned to the restaurant and got MO to go finish the job, but for some reason he lost his nerve, probably still worried about J still wheeling his child around, and also didn't go through with it. He certainly did go into the apartment but not to check on the kids as he stated, because by his own admission he didn't. So all that was left was for K to open the shutters as the evidence suggests, and because forced entry at the shutter was the plan they idiotically stuck to it.

Were the shutters accidentally broken by G earlier in the week? Or was this a trial run on how to do the job? When they were repaired the maintenance men would later confirm thatt they had been intact.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 13:19

Rainbow-fairy,

I apologise, I didn't mean to confuse you. I must have misunderstood, my monkey mind was certainly whirring at the time.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 26.12.11 14:01

@aquila wrote:
Too true JD. One thing that has always stuck out in my mind - as a mother, had I left my Son in a creche with total strangers on holiday I would have returned adhoc from day 1 just to check on things. What kind of family holiday was this exactly? Seems to me that child-friendly meant kids could be parked off for the majority of the day and ignored in the evening. There was quite a lot of emphasis on bedtime - from parents who had spent little time with their children. Call me old fashioned (I am) but to spend time with your children on holiday is one of life's pleasures. There is little evidence to me of it being a holiday about children and families. Madeleine was a keen swimmer we are given to believe even when the water is cold. Most Brit families abroad in my experience spend their time in and around the pool with their kids. OK, so the water was cold and the weather wasn't great but there's sandcastles to be built, trips into nearby towns, play areas....the things most ordinary people do with their children on holiday....but hey 'it was our holiday too'.

Normally on a family holiday we have a shedload of photos of the kids and before anyone thinks I'm being overly sentimental about family holidays I just don't get the diary entries about 'milk and biscuits' and 'bedtime stories' and 'cuddle cat'. Then there is the GM thing where he looks at his beautiful children asleep (can't remember the exact wording) - that captured moment.

I may not be very bright but I know when I'm being misled.

One of the very first things (out of so many) that I found odd was the fact they hardly spent any times with their kids on the holiday and my first impression was why bother taking them. The kids were out in creche all day and then left alone at nights. The only time they spent time with them was at breakfast and late afternoon meal, bath, putting them to bed. In the UK they had a nanny so the holiday should have provided some much quality time together as a family but it seems playing tennis and running was way more important then parenting their kids.mmmmm And after all the trouble with IVF to have them, the pain kate went through to conceive, really what was the point if they are going to leave them all the time..no wonder Maddie was screaming for attention! it seems she hardly got any

They said on Australian Tv how they loved to photo Maddie and how much she loved to be photographed...kate made a point of this. Yet there is not one single photo of kate with her daughter from the holiday. There seems to be hardly any with Maddie in them from the holiday, you can count them on your hand. Their friends at least seem to have the normal holiday photos with their kids but the mccanns there is hardly any.mmmmm Looking back further there are only 3 pictures of kate with Maddie, blowing out the candles, on the horse and the family portrait. Most photos Maddie is with gerry, or with her cousins & other family members...hardly any with mother. All so very very odd indeed

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 26.12.11 14:27

@monkey mind wrote:Hi Stella, monkey mind.

Quote: “"The twins were still sleeping in their cots. So... you'd be trying to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of the cots into their own apartment ".

This is a rather bizarre statement. When exactly was he referring to here and in what context?

He was talking about the night of the 3rd, after the alarm was raised and possibly just after the GNR turned up.

Was it the alleged fateful night the third? They were moved out of the apartment that night as witnessed by the police seeing the children didn’t wake up when moved. Do we know where they were moved to on that night?

They immediately went to the Payne apartment G5H (into their 'own' apartment... remember) until such a time when another apartment in block 4, G4G was organised for them. Where they stayed until they moved into the villa.

Quote: “They did make a big thing about the vunerability of the position of that apartment, in many interviews, that's the thing.”

Well if you don’t believe in the abduction proposal, and without question the Portuguese police did not, and the evidence of the cadaver dogs in the Renault along with the 15 out of 19 genetic markers combined together are just a couple of things that make a mockery of such a proposal, and, if as the evidence suggests they may have moved apartments, from the first floor G5H, to G5A by the car park, well I would suggest that the location of G5A was the very reason for that move. After all, why would an abductor walk past a couple of apartments with unattended children and climb a flight of stairs to carry out his task. It is certainly a question that would have troubled the police.

We should remember that the cleaner was there in G5A on the morning of the 28th, when 2 cots arrived. Payne talks about there being an extra one, but the cleaner does not mention 3. Which can only mean that G5A was there intended apartment from day one. But did they move to another apartment when everyone got an upgrade? That is the question. Perhaps Payne originally got G5A and the moving of a cot out of it, would confirm this.

I would also suggest that if the evidence makes a mockery of the abduction proposal then this also was the very reason for the children allegedly being left alone every night that week. In considering two scenarios of child abduction, one playing in the street vs one sleeping alone in an apartment, whilst in both instances the perpetrator needs motivation the first is more opportunist whilst the second needs planning. The perpetrator needs initially to become aware that the children are alone, either by lengthy observation or by being alerted by parents coming to and fro and telling people their children are home alone. This would then be followed by further observation before striking and the car park affords a perfect spot for such observation. If they had been using the front door, where the car park is. But they said they used the rear patio door, so how would anyone know sitting in the car park?

So while the location of the apt and the abandoning allegedly of the children every night afford perfect opportunity for an abductor, the Portuguese police believe such an abduction was staged, and the evidence of the Renault certainly tend to confirm this then they become equally important to lend credibility to the staging of an event, hence the significance of shifting apt if it happened.

And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K. Was this the real purpose of the last visit to the apt by G, to add the finishing touch? Only he wasn't able to go through with it because of his chance meeting with J in the street? He couldn't be certain that J would not over hear him forcing the window so he returned to the restaurant and got MO to go finish the job, but for some reason he lost his nerve, probably still worried about J still wheeling his child around, and also didn't go through with it. He certainly did go into the apartment but not to check on the kids as he stated, because by his own admission he didn't. So all that was left was for K to open the shutters as the evidence suggests, and because forced entry at the shutter was the plan they idiotically stuck to it. But as we know, the shutters had not been forced open.

Were the shutters accidentally broken by G earlier in the week? Or was this a trial run on how to do the job? When they were repaired the maintenance men would later confirm thatt they had been intact.

That is quite possible.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 26.12.11 15:50

@monkey mind wrote:....And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K.

Thinking of the shutters....We have seen on TV interviews the mccanns telling their 'story' of the shutters being opened/jemmied, we have even seen kate doing a reconstruction in her Rothley home how she felt the breeze on opening the door because the shutters were open. Even in the summer of 2011 they are still telling the shutters were open story, But....we know for a fact that they were not open that they never were, its been proven and they admitted it. So why have they never been questioned about this totally blatant and proven lie they are still telling the public? Not only is this lying this is misleading the public with false stories

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 15:56

Hi Stella,

Quote: “We should remember that the cleaner was there in G5A on the morning of the 28th, when 2 cots arrived. Payne talks about there being an extra one, but the cleaner does not mention 3.”

I wasn’t aware of this cleaner, I hope she is reliable. It’s another infernal contradiction isn’t it. The booking form indicates they requested extra cots for L. Payne and S and A McCann. This would indicate that if two cots arrived in 5A then this apartment was originally designated for the McCanns, but if there was one cot too many it would tend to indicate the Paynes. But if it was designated for the Paynes and they decided to swap there would then be no need to move a cot to accommodate the McCanns. And if it were designated for the Mcanns there still would be no need to move a cot. So what’s all this cot moving nonsense about then? The only way I can make sense of it is if two cots were deliverd to 5H and one to 5A and they decided to swap apartments, but the cleaner would seem to negate this.

The Paynes booked a two bedroom apartment with only one cot. This provided a bed for each adult and the eldest child plus a cot for the infant. They did not request an extra bed which would have appeared as a sofa bed as I understand. Do we know whether there was a sofa bed in 5A? Can we ascertain this from the apartment photographs? I cannot check this for myself my sight is very poor indeed, almost nonexistent in fact, so even if I magnified the photos massively I wouldn’t be able to tell.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Nina on 26.12.11 16:07

@jd wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:....And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K.

Thinking of the shutters....We have seen on TV interviews the mccanns telling their 'story' of the shutters being opened/jemmied, we have even seen kate doing a reconstruction in her Rothley home how she felt the breeze on opening the door because the shutters were open. Even in the summer of 2011 they are still telling the shutters were open story, But....we know for a fact that they were not open that they never were, its been proven and they admitted it. So why have they never been questioned about this totally blatant and proven lie they are still telling the public? Not only is this lying this is misleading the public with false stories

Hi Jd. Yes indeed the McCanns went on and on about the shutters, to those without said shutters. However now like myself there are many expats with shutters and we all know 100% they cannot be jemmied up in a matter of moments without sound. They are security shutters so secure from opening from the outsde.

Here in Spain the fire fighters have a kind of hydraulic jack they use on shutters from the outside of a building to gain entry. Why, because it is the only way to get the shutters up quickly from the outside

They lie and this is one of the easiest to prove.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.

Nina

Posts : 2656
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2011-06-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 26.12.11 16:16

@jd wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:....And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K.

Thinking of the shutters....We have seen on TV interviews the mccanns telling their 'story' of the shutters being opened/jemmied, we have even seen kate doing a reconstruction in her Rothley home how she felt the breeze on opening the door because the shutters were open. Even in the summer of 2011 they are still telling the shutters were open story, But....we know for a fact that they were not open that they never were, its been proven and they admitted it. So why have they never been questioned about this totally blatant and proven lie they are still telling the public? Not only is this lying this is misleading the public with
false stories

JD, yes the Portuguese police have proven that the window definitely not forced or jemmied in any way shape or form, but 99.9% of people do not know that, nor will they ever bother to check, no need, I mean if it is on the telly it must be so. Right? They have no desire or ability to actively question or think for themselves.
If the window wasn’t forced they would have to admit the only other reasonable alternative in that they not only left the children unattended every night, but they also left the door unlocked. I don’t think the public would think very highly of them in that instance do you? Not good for image. Not good for sympathy. Not good for the fund.
As to why they haven’t been questioned? There are a lot of questions that should have been asked, and quite frankly probably never will be asked. Reopened enquiry not withstanding.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 26.12.11 16:18

@Nina wrote:
@jd wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:....And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K.

Thinking of the shutters....We have seen on TV interviews the mccanns telling their 'story' of the shutters being opened/jemmied, we have even seen kate doing a reconstruction in her Rothley home how she felt the breeze on opening the door because the shutters were open. Even in the summer of 2011 they are still telling the shutters were open story, But....we know for a fact that they were not open that they never were, its been proven and they admitted it. So why have they never been questioned about this totally blatant and proven lie they are still telling the public? Not only is this lying this is misleading the public with false stories

Hi Jd. Yes indeed the McCanns went on and on about the shutters, to those without said shutters. However now like myself there are many expats with shutters and we all know 100% they cannot be jemmied up in a matter of moments without sound. They are security shutters so secure from opening from the outsde.

Here in Spain the fire fighters have a kind of hydraulic jack they use on shutters from the outside of a building to gain entry. Why, because it is the only way to get the shutters up quickly from the outside

They lie and this is one of the easiest to prove.

And this rather big lie is in the public domain proven, yet nobody questions them about it...very strange

I too am well versed in the shutters in Spain/Portugual and know at first hand, as you say, that they are impossible to jemmy without something like a hydraulic jack which would cause permanent substantial damage. Which if happened on 3rd May would have been there for the world to see. I know only too well the noise they make is substantial too and we do have the Moyes statement saying how very quiet it was at 9.15pm as they sat on their balcony 2 floors up from apartment 5A! There is absolutely no doubt they would have heard any shutter being opened under any circumstances

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 26.12.11 16:22

@monkey mind wrote:
@jd wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:....And if such an event was staged and a crucial part of that plan was the forced entry via the shutters, why weren't the shutters actually forced instead of being seemingly opened by K.

Thinking of the shutters....We have seen on TV interviews the mccanns telling their 'story' of the shutters being opened/jemmied, we have even seen kate doing a reconstruction in her Rothley home how she felt the breeze on opening the door because the shutters were open. Even in the summer of 2011 they are still telling the shutters were open story, But....we know for a fact that they were not open that they never were, its been proven and they admitted it. So why have they never been questioned about this totally blatant and proven lie they are still telling the public? Not only is this lying this is misleading the public with
false stories

JD, yes the Portuguese police have proven that the window definitely not forced or jemmied in any way shape or form, but 99.9% of people do not know that, nor will they ever bother to check, no need, I mean if it is on the telly it must be so. Right? They have no desire or ability to actively question or think for themselves.
If the window wasn’t forced they would have to admit the only other reasonable alternative in that they not only left the children unattended every night, but they also left the door unlocked. I don’t think the public would think very highly of them in that instance do you? Not good for image. Not good for sympathy. Not good for the fund.
As to why they haven’t been questioned? There are a lot of questions that should have been asked, and quite frankly probably never will be asked. Reopened enquiry not withstanding.

I think this is where the unlocked patin door came from. When the shutters were proven they then reacted by revealing the patio doors were infact unlocked

Totally agree that 99% do not know the true fact of the shutters but my point is nobody should be allowed to lie to the public and especially when they are trying to get money from them, so somebody should have questioned their constant 'in your face' lying and shown the evidence to protect the public from the lie

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 27.12.11 9:25

@monkey mind wrote:Hi Stella,

Quote: “We should remember that the cleaner was there in G5A on the morning of the 28th, when 2 cots arrived. Payne talks about there being an extra one, but the cleaner does not mention 3.”

I wasn’t aware of this cleaner, I hope she is reliable.

I would say she most definitely is. You will find her statement on McCannPJFiles, and I will add it to the bottom of this post.

It’s another infernal contradiction isn’t it. The booking form indicates they requested extra cots for L. Payne and S and A McCann. This would indicate that if two cots arrived in 5A then this apartment was originally designated for the McCanns, but if there was one cot too many it would tend to indicate the Paynes. But if it was designated for the Paynes and they decided to swap there would then be no need to move a cot to accommodate the McCanns. And if it were designated for the Mcanns there still would be no need to move a cot. So what’s all this cot moving nonsense about then? The only way I can make sense of it is if two cots were deliverd to 5H and one to 5A and they decided to swap apartments, but the cleaner would seem to negate this.

Payne says I beleive that McCann had a "spare one". Which as you say might suggest that Payne was allocated G5A.

The Paynes booked a two bedroom apartment with only one cot. This provided a bed for each adult and the eldest child plus a cot for the infant. They did not request an extra bed Exactly which would have appeared as a sofa bed as I understand. Do we know whether there was a sofa bed in 5A?

That is very hard to tell, the pictures are not clear and unless you open one of those things, sometimes you cannot tell. But there is a picture of the back of the sofa where the dog alerts are, which appears to have a loose cover. This could be for washing purposes, or it could be to gain access to the sofa bed mechanisms.

Can we ascertain this from the apartment photographs? I cannot check this for myself my sight is very poor indeed, almost nonexistent in fact, so even if I magnified the photos massively I wouldn’t be able to tell.

Processos Volume II Pages 392 - 394

Maria Julia Serafim da Silva - Cleaner

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 16H45

Concerning the issue of the process said:
. That she comes to the process as a witness, manifested by her intention to make declarations in order to clarify the facts of the present investigation;
. The question made, she informs that she has been employed as a cleaner for 13 months in the Ocean Club. Together, and in the same department, she works with her daughters, Fatima Maria and Dora Isabel;
. Regarding her functions, she clarifies that she is the person responsible for cleaning block 5, and more specifically, apartments A, B,C, D, H, I, K,L, M and P, and can conclusively affirm that when the minor disappeared, only the apartments A, B, D, G, H and K were occupied. She states also that she is the only employee who cleans these apartments. In the preparation of Apartment A, that one in which the McCann family stayed, was prepared by the deponent with the help of her friend Dina, the previous Saturday, the 28th;
- She remembers that when she was preparing the apartment, she only received indication that it would be occupied by 5 people, not knowing children would be part of this. At that precise moment when Dina was helping her prepare the apartment,, elements of the Mark Warner business entered and proceeded immediately to place two children’s cots. It was only at this moment when she became aware that children would be staying there;
. The question made, she says that a third party placing the cots in the room is normal. Moreover, she says that only when apartments are reserved through the Mark Warner agency, it is they who are responsible for the placement of beds. On the other hand, when other travel agencies book the vacation, children’s beds are taken care of by the Ocean Club;
. In regards to her duties directly related to the apartment, she states that the last time she entered there was on the Wednesday, the day before the facts, more precisely on the 02 of May, where she carried out cleaning. Questioned, says that contrary to what has been established, on Thursday, the 03rd, she was doing something else, and did not have the opportunity to pick up the rubbish bags;
. She remembers that when she entered the apartment (A), on Wednesday, that inside she came across the parents. After being allowed to enter, she carried out her work, as they had already left. While she was there, she did not come across any child, supposing that they were in the crèche;
. During the time she carried out her work, she remembers having seen, given the scenario presented, that the couple slept in the room opposite the entrance way, where she came across a children’s cot. This room gives access to an exterior garden which is called the ground floor, and to a veranda. In the room closest to the door of the apartment, there was a bed pushed to the wall (where she assumed the missing child slept) and a second cot. All these beds were ‘messy’ and this told her that they had been used. She states further that in the room closest to the door, was another bed, which was not used;
. On the Friday following, the day after the disappearance of the child, she states that due to the police activity, she did not clean Apartment A;
. Questioned, states that on the days preceding the facts, she only entered the apartments to carry out her duties, and did not come across any element/object or strange fact that called her attention and which could be directly related to the disappearance;
. In the same vein, she states that she did not notice any element/person who presented with a strange comportment;
. Ending, she states that her hours of work begin at 10H00, terminating at 18H00, when she returns to Lagos, where she resides;
. And she said nothing further. Read, she finds it in conformity and signs
. This document is read, reviewed and found in conformity, and will be duly signed by me, Tony Almedia, an Inspector with this Polícia Judiciária.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 27.12.11 12:37

Thanks for the statement Stella. She was aware of a party of five which could apply to both the McCanns and the Paynes, but if the McCanns intended that apt for themselves, then there certainly wasn't a spare cot in there on the face of it. Not sure what to make of the cots being separated either could be perfectly innocent I suppose.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Guest on 27.12.11 13:01

@monkey mind wrote:Thanks for the statement Stella. She was aware of a party of five which could apply to both the McCanns and the Paynes,

that's right !! I had never looked at it like that before. The Payne's talk about putting both of their children in cots. They automatically got one free for their youngest and requested an extra one at a cost, for their eldest. So yes, G5A could have been for the Payne's who 'did not request an extra bed' and that G5H, which 'did have an extra bed', was supposed to be for the McCann's. It's no wonder the OC daily run reports are missing from the files for the 29th and 30th. As the one run on the 29th, which was information from the 28th, might have shown Payne G5A and McCann G5H.

but if the McCanns intended that apt for themselves, then there certainly wasn't a spare cot in there on the face of it. Not sure what to make of the cots being separated either could be perfectly innocent I suppose.

This makes perfect sense if Payne was using G5A. The baby would need to be in with Fiona, the older child in bedroom 2, with Grandma Payne. No spare bed anywhere.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 27.12.11 14:25

Yes, this is the very point that I have been alluding to. 5A could well have been set up for the Paynes and if they swapped, this is highly significant is it not?

Stella: “So yes, G5A could have been for the Payne's who 'did not request an extra bed' and that G5H, which 'did have an extra bed', was supposed to be for the McCann's.”

This is why I was asking if there was a sofa bed in 5A as a sofa bed represents the extra bed requested. If 5A does not have one, then that room was set up for the Paynes. Now you say above that 5H DID have an extra bed. Do we know that for sure, for if we do then we can conclude that 5H was set up for the McCanns as they were the one’s requesting the extra bed.....

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Nina on 27.12.11 17:41

@monkey mind wrote:Yes, this is the very point that I have been alluding to. 5A could well have been set up for the Paynes and if they swapped, this is highly significant is it not?

Stella: “So yes, G5A could have been for the Payne's who 'did not request an extra bed' and that G5H, which 'did have an extra bed', was supposed to be for the McCann's.”

This is why I was asking if there was a sofa bed in 5A as a sofa bed represents the extra bed requested. If 5A does not have one, then that room was set up for the Paynes. Now you say above that 5H DID have an extra bed. Do we know that for sure, for if we do then we can conclude that 5H was set up for the McCanns as they were the one’s requesting the extra bed.....



Hi Monkey mind, love the pic.

Here is a link to Diane Webster's statement, makes for interesting reading,



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id254.html

According to her statement she chose to sleep on the sofa bed in the living room rather than a bed in her grandaughter's bedroom.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.

Nina

Posts : 2656
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2011-06-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 27.12.11 18:05

@monkey mind wrote:Yes, this is the very point that I have been alluding to. 5A could well have been set up for the Paynes and if they swapped, this is highly significant is it not?

Stella: “So yes, G5A could have been for the Payne's who 'did not request an extra bed' and that G5H, which 'did have an extra bed', was supposed to be for the McCann's.”

This is why I was asking if there was a sofa bed in 5A as a sofa bed represents the extra bed requested. If 5A does not have one, then that room was set up for the Paynes. Now you say above that 5H DID have an extra bed. Do we know that for sure, for if we do then we can conclude that 5H was set up for the McCanns as they were the one’s requesting the extra bed.....
monkey mind, just to say I unreservedly accept your earlier apology - this case has so many twists and turns it is easy to get confused and misunderstand some posts.
We have unearthed here many things but right now I'm tending to think this could be one of the most significant AND it raises some pretty unpleasant questions (doesn't it all?) I am off for a short while, two dogs need feeding, two kids also. Plus I need to have a think what I want to say. I will be back - hope I don't miss too much Wink

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 27.12.11 21:59

Nina, chuckle, yes, that’s me on a good day. Thanks for the link :^)

Well that is pretty clear, Diane Webster sleeps on the sofa bed in the lounge which is what would be provided if an extra bed were requested. And it appears, according to the sheets on page 1 of this thread, if Stella is right and I’m sure she is, that the Paynes didn’t order an extra bed but the McCanns did.

The question now arises, do all the apartments contain a sofa bed in the lounge to save furniture moving when an extra bed is required, and when one is it is simply the extra bedding that is provided?
I’m also a little confused as to why she is sleeping on the sofa bed at all. She says there were two beds in one bedroom but the child L was in there so she slept in the lounge, no mention of the younger sister S which would imply she was in her cot with the parents. A similar set up with the cots to what was witnessed by the cleaner in 5A. The two year old gets an entire room with two empty beds and grandma cops the sofa bed.

I would also expect to see exactly the same amount of cots in the apts of the Paynes and the McCanns also, two in each. The McCanns ordered two cots for the twins and an extra bed (presumably for Madeleine which would indicate they originally booked a 1 bedroom apt as also indicated by F. Payne). The Paynes would have had 1 cot for the youngest child automatically and they ordered an additional one for the child L. So two each.

I’m not sure whether without the daily run records for the 29th and 30th or without any more information regards what this cot moving nonsense was about that we can take this any further. Whilst it remains an open possibility that the Paynes and McCanns could have swapped apts on arrival at this stage, as it stands it doesn't appear to me that it can be said they did. Shame.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by aquila on 27.12.11 23:01

@monkey mind wrote:Nina, chuckle, yes, that’s me on a good day. Thanks for the link :^)

Well that is pretty clear, Diane Webster sleeps on the sofa bed in the lounge which is what would be provided if an extra bed were requested. And it appears, according to the sheets on page 1 of this thread, if Stella is right and I’m sure she is, that the Paynes didn’t order an extra bed but the McCanns did.

The question now arises, do all the apartments contain a sofa bed in the lounge to save furniture moving when an extra bed is required, and when one is it is simply the extra bedding that is provided?
I’m also a little confused as to why she is sleeping on the sofa bed at all. She says there were two beds in one bedroom but the child L was in there so she slept in the lounge, no mention of the younger sister S which would imply she was in her cot with the parents. A similar set up with the cots to what was witnessed by the cleaner in 5A. The two year old gets an entire room with two empty beds and grandma cops the sofa bed.

I would also expect to see exactly the same amount of cots in the apts of the Paynes and the McCanns also, two in each. The McCanns ordered two cots for the twins and an extra bed (presumably for Madeleine which would indicate they originally booked a 1 bedroom apt as also indicated by F. Payne). The Paynes would have had 1 cot for the youngest child automatically and they ordered an additional one for the child L. So two each.

I’m not sure whether without the daily run records for the 29th and 30th or without any more information regards what this cot moving nonsense was about that we can take this any further. Whilst it remains an open possibility that the Paynes and McCanns could have swapped apts on arrival at this stage, as it stands it doesn't appear to me that it can be said they did. Shame.

What is the definition of a sofa bed? A sofa bed in UK looks like a sofa and has either unfolding sponge seating that goes onto the floor or has a mechanism that makes it into a regular bed. A Mediterranean sofa bed in my experience is an uncomfortable sofa of around 6 feet in length with over-depth seating and back cushions. Take off the back cushions and sleep on the sofa. From the photographs I've seen of apartment 5A it looked like a regular sofa.

aquila

Posts : 7957
Reputation : 1182
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by sharonl on 27.12.11 23:06

Please correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remember something about another McCann relative, an uncle, having gone along on that holiday but he made a hasty retreat back to the UK on the morning of May 4th. If this is correct, where was he supposed to sleep?

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron

sharonl


Posts : 3604
Reputation : 435
Join date : 2009-12-29

View user profile http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by Marian on 27.12.11 23:09

That's a new one on me Sharon but maybe someone else will remember. It will be interesting if it was Uncle Hugh McCann who supposedly went to Donegal the previous month despite being reported dead in 1999!!

Marian

Posts : 1147
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-12-19
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by monkey mind on 28.12.11 0:35

@aquila wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:Nina, chuckle, yes, that’s me on a good day. Thanks for the link :^)

Well that is pretty clear, Diane Webster sleeps on the sofa bed in the lounge which is what would be provided if an extra bed were requested. And it appears, according to the sheets on page 1 of this thread, if Stella is right and I’m sure she is, that the Paynes didn’t order an extra bed but the McCanns did.

The question now arises, do all the apartments contain a sofa bed in the lounge to save furniture moving when an extra bed is required, and when one is it is simply the extra bedding that is provided?
I’m also a little confused as to why she is sleeping on the sofa bed at all. She says there were two beds in one bedroom but the child L was in there so she slept in the lounge, no mention of the younger sister S which would imply she was in her cot with the parents. A similar set up with the cots to what was witnessed by the cleaner in 5A. The two year old gets an entire room with two empty beds and grandma cops the sofa bed.

I would also expect to see exactly the same amount of cots in the apts of the Paynes and the McCanns also, two in each. The McCanns ordered two cots for the twins and an extra bed (presumably for Madeleine which would indicate they originally booked a 1 bedroom apt as also indicated by F. Payne). The Paynes would have had 1 cot for the youngest child automatically and they ordered an additional one for the child L. So two each.

I’m not sure whether without the daily run records for the 29th and 30th or without any more information regards what this cot moving nonsense was about that we can take this any further. Whilst it remains an open possibility that the Paynes and McCanns could have swapped apts on arrival at this stage, as it stands it doesn't appear to me that it can be said they did. Shame.

What is the definition of a sofa bed? A sofa bed in UK looks like a sofa and has either unfolding sponge seating that goes onto the floor or has a mechanism that makes it into a regular bed. A Mediterranean sofa bed in my experience is an uncomfortable sofa of around 6 feet in length with over-depth seating and back cushions. Take off the back cushions and sleep on the sofa. From the photographs I've seen of apartment 5A it looked like a regular sofa.

Aquila, there's the very thing. We know from the statement of Webster there was an extra bed in 5H, she slept on it, but it appears from the booking the Paynes didn't order an extra bed, the McCanns did. Therefore, if we can prove that there was not a sofa bed, an extra bed in 5A, maybe one of the police officers who searched the scene or forensics can say categorically. Well, if we can prove that, then they must have swapped apartments on arrival and never informed the police when questioned. This is extremely significant imho....very significant.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 28.12.11 3:26

@Nina wrote:

Hi Jd. Yes indeed the McCanns went on and on about the shutters, to those without said shutters. However now like myself there are many expats with shutters and we all know 100% they cannot be jemmied up in a matter of moments without sound. They are security shutters so secure from opening from the outsde.

Here in Spain the fire fighters have a kind of hydraulic jack they use on shutters from the outside of a building to gain entry. Why, because it is the only way to get the shutters up quickly from the outside

They lie and this is one of the easiest to prove.

Here is kate saying the shutters were open.



Kate admits no one came through the window of the children's bedroom. Yes, after years of insisting that someone broke into the apartment by tampering with the shutters and forcing the window open, Kate now backs down from that claim, agreeing with the Policia Judiciara that an abductor did not climbed into or out of the room

And on the 24th July 2011 she is still telling the shutters were jemmied open lie on Australian TV to their public

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 28.12.11 3:31

And here is kate saying ""We haven't put too much emphasis on her eye as you have to get close to her to see it"



Oh I see....





Not too much emphasis? right

____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by jd on 28.12.11 3:53

And here kate quoting Maddie saying''where were you when I cried ".....to which gerry immediately contradicts her by saying it was Maddie and also one of the twins



Maybe because he remembered in his PJ statement "Between the 28th April, the day they arrived and the time the disappearance was discovered, he says that nothing unusual happened, only referring to an episode on the morning of the 3rd May, when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom, however he finds his daughter's comment to be strange, maybe because it was the first time that she had made it."

No mention of Maddie crying in the statement so where did kate get Maddie saying ''where were you when I cried"? huge difference between I or the twins

And gerry , as you say here, every night on your checks the apartments were always quiet...how do you explain Mrs Fenn hearing a child in your apartment crying for 75 mins the night before? Even Maddie told you the next morning they were crying yet on your regular 15 minute checks you never heard anything on 5 separate checks? You were only 49.2 meters away in a very quiet resort that you deemed close enough to be safely watching the apartment you left your kids alone in with unlocked patio doors.. yet you or anyone else could not hear any crying?

btw there is no proof of an abduction and she officially classed as a missing person, so please don't go on TV saying she has been abducted when there is not a shred of evidence of one


____________________
Who pulled the strings?...THE SYMINGTONS..And the Scottish connections...Look no further if you dare

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Why did the McCann's request an extra bed?

Post by PeterMac on 28.12.11 8:05

It is when they try to give detail that they expose themselves.
They only rehearsed the outline.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 144
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 19 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 19  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum