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MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Guest on 26.05.12 12:16

@jd wrote:
@Portia wrote: OK. So Payne was involved, and Murat was the Tapasniks patsy?

Do you have any theories as to why they were intent since day 1 on only setting murat up for the abduction? and only him, nobody else

I'll have to think about that. On the face of it:

1. Because Murat was available;
2. He acted as an interpreter, when someone must have noticed the similarity;
3. When GM and ROB drew up the stickerbook timelines they included a mention of a sighting by JT;
4. Either JT had actually seen 'someting/someone' at that stage and reported that, or she was at that moment cast in a role, yet to perform;
5. Having been cast into that role, she was fed the particulars of the sighting: now listen carefully sister, you saw someone walking away to the right, have you got that? While GM carrying God knows who/what had in fact slipped of to the left, so to meet the Smith sighting
6. To the right: some time during the interviews it becae clear the interpretor lived 'to the right';
7. He had the misfortune to look like one of the main participants, if not one of the perpetrators of the abduction hoax;
8. So he was slotted in, and obviously expected to take the fall by the likes of all those who pointed teir fingers at him later: the Tapasniks, that infamous newspaper chit, etcetera.
9. While DP walked.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Nina on 26.05.12 12:32

I wonder who else they would have identified if Murat hadn't been about? Pity for him that he made that last minute flight booking to dash back home to PdL. Barely time to beat the 2 hour wait before boarding if I remember correctly.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Guest on 26.05.12 13:18

@Nina wrote:I wonder who else they would have identified if Murat hadn't been about? Pity for him that he made that last minute flight booking to dash back home to PdL. Barely time to beat the 2 hour wait before boarding if I remember correctly.

Maybe they DID know him beforehand and called him in, involved him at some earlier point in time, with the patsy-scenario already in mind?

Do we know why exactly he went to PdL at such short notice?

Was he perhaps supposed to arrive a little later, one of the posse of hitmen & helpers arriving within days 'after the fact'; his presence on the scene looking more 'natural' then, supposedly; and overdid he -wittingly or unwittingly- his brief, inadvisedly taking the earlier plane in order not to miss his cue?

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Nina on 26.05.12 13:20

@Portia wrote:
@Nina wrote:I wonder who else they would have identified if Murat hadn't been about? Pity for him that he made that last minute flight booking to dash back home to PdL. Barely time to beat the 2 hour wait before boarding if I remember correctly.

Maybe they DID know him beforehand and called him in, involved him at some earlier point in time, with the patsy-scenario already in mind?

Do we know why he DID fly to PdL at such short notice?

Was he supposed to arrive a little later, his presence on the scene looking more 'natural', and overdid he -wittinly or unwittingly- his brief taking the earlier plane?

He was supposed to return on the 9th but did a quick exit as his girlfriend had called him to say the lawyer needed to see him about the divorce.
There as a piece about him, I will find the link for you.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 26.05.12 22:09

@Portia wrote:

1. Because Murat was available;
2. He acted as an interpreter, when someone must have noticed the similarity;
3. When GM and ROB drew up the stickerbook timelines they included a mention of a sighting by JT;
4. Either JT had actually seen 'someting/someone' at that stage and reported that, or she was at that moment cast in a role, yet to perform;
5. Having been cast into that role, she was fed the particulars of the sighting: now listen carefully sister, you saw someone walking away to the right, have you got that? While GM carrying God knows who/what had in fact slipped of to the left, so to meet the Smith sighting
6. To the right: some time during the interviews it becae clear the interpretor lived 'to the right';
7. He had the misfortune to look like one of the main participants, if not one of the perpetrators of the abduction hoax;
8. So he was slotted in, and obviously expected to take the fall by the likes of all those who pointed teir fingers at him later: the Tapasniks, that infamous newspaper chit, etcetera.
9. While DP walked.

I don't think any of these reasons are why they did everything they could to pin the abduction on murat, this is a very serious accusation. jane tanner described her abductor man as having long hair and she didn't see his face yet a few days later she is in a smoked police car naming him as the one she saw, very deliberate setup but why? Maybe it is to protect david payne (you only have to read his statements to see how nervous he was at lying & covering up something about 'his angels') and maybe it goes a lot deeper than this


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 27.05.12 0:28

@jd wrote:Could the reason jane tanner and the Tapas 9 were pinning robert murat since day 1 be to deflect away from david payne? so all eyes would be focused on murat as he and payne look alike

or maybe Angus Symington?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-robert-murat-has-a-double-289449


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by tigger on 27.05.12 7:01

I believe there are several entries in Kate's diary re Murat - all very hostile to say the least. I wonder if he is also the person who has brought 'additional' problems to her and her family. This entry in her diary is very intriguing. Why 'additional'?

However :
24/12/2007
Kate McCann is reported to be suspicious about Robert Murat's alibi for the night her daughter Madeleine vanished. It is said that she has confided to friends that she believes there are questions about the British expat that need to be answered.

A month later the signals have changed to:
27/1/2008
Kate and Gerry McCann are certain original suspect Robert Murat is not the man who snatched their daughter Madeleine. But private detectives searching for the missing four-year-old still believe he may have acted as a “spotter” for a kidnap gang targeting the McCann family. The couple have now revealed how they never thought the expatriate was responsible. Despite doubts over his alibi, they have ruled out the 34-year-old after a major  probe in Praia de Luz.
source mcCannfiles.com.

Helpful couple aren't they? Telling the police how it is - but still diverting the attention of the public towards Murat. The insistence on Murat may well have been misdirection whilst they were tidying up their combined stories.


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by bobbin on 27.05.12 13:18

@Nina wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@Nina wrote:I wonder who else they would have identified if Murat hadn't been about? Pity for him that he made that last minute flight booking to dash back home to PdL. Barely time to beat the 2 hour wait before boarding if I remember correctly.

Maybe they DID know him beforehand and called him in, involved him at some earlier point in time, with the patsy-scenario already in mind?

Do we know why he DID fly to PdL at such short notice?

Was he supposed to arrive a little later, his presence on the scene looking more 'natural', and overdid he -wittinly or unwittingly- his brief taking the earlier plane?

He was supposed to return on the 9th but did a quick exit as his girlfriend had called him to say the lawyer needed to see him about the divorce.
There as a piece about him, I will find the link for you.

His return has always bothered me. Are there any statements, phone call analysis, etc. which indicate that Murat did in fact visit his solicitor immediately to deal with divorce questions. It all seemed very confusing the change of stories about meeting Malinka, his computer/business deals, his girl friend and her current husband etc.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Nina on 27.05.12 15:16

@Nina wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@Nina wrote:I wonder who else they would have identified if Murat hadn't been about? Pity for him that he made that last minute flight booking to dash back home to PdL. Barely time to beat the 2 hour wait before boarding if I remember correctly.

Maybe they DID know him beforehand and called him in, involved him at some earlier point in time, with the patsy-scenario already in mind?

Do we know why he DID fly to PdL at such short notice?

Was he supposed to arrive a little later, his presence on the scene looking more 'natural', and overdid he -wittinly or unwittingly- his brief taking the earlier plane?

He was supposed to return on the 9th but did a quick exit as his girlfriend had called him to say the lawyer needed to see him about the divorce.
There as a piece about him, I will find the link for you.
Here you are, all taken from the files.

http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/Muratpt1.html

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Hummingbird on 27.05.12 15:31

Can anyone tell me the correct time lines between:

The first 'talk' that perhaps no one could actually say 100% that Madeleine had been seen on Thursday 3rd

The first time DP making the supposed visit to his 'angels' and friends wife wrapped in bath towel became public knowledge or reported in statements

The first time the Gasper statements became public knowledge, I know the statement was actually given in May 2007, very early on, but I am wondering when it became public knowledge.

I have always wondered about where Murat and Malinka fit into all of this but as always I just cannot believe that so many people could be involved in something so big and no one has cracked by now. Maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time doing something 'shady' that had nothing at all to do with McCanns, it is very odd how he looks like the 'closest' friend of the McCanns, the one who was distraught when Madeleine went missing while her parents weren't, the one who was instructing them not to talk to social workers, and the one who seems to get very little mention in all the statements when everyone else gets mentioned over and over again.





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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by tigger on 27.05.12 15:42

I'm pretty sure that the Payne statement only surfaced after Amaral had established that no independent witness had seen her after 4.30 that day.

The usual mix up occurred, Gerry, Payne and Kate all have different times and stories including the reason why Gerry asked Payne to look in.
I've been trying to find it myself - I'll have another go.

The Gaspar statement wasn't sent to the PJ until September, I believe the date of the covering letter is after the mcCanns left Portugal.
That's easily found in the McCannfiles. 24th October 2007 is the date of the covering letter from LP.

Do you mean Payne in your last paragraph?

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 27.05.12 16:04

(Quote) it was not mentioned by David Payne, Gerry or Kate McCann in their initial police statements, despite Kate McCann’s repeated assertions in the book that she had told the police “everything”. The first reference to it comes, oddly, not from either of the individuals involved but from Gerry McCann, in his May 10 statement:

“David went to visit Kate and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, which he refused.”

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Hummingbird on 27.05.12 16:17

@tigger wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Payne statement only surfaced after Amaral had established that no independent witness had seen her after 4.30 that day.

The usual mix up occurred, Gerry, Payne and Kate all have different times and stories including the reason why Gerry asked Payne to look in.
I've been trying to find it myself - I'll have another go.

The Gaspar statement wasn't sent to the PJ until September, I believe the date of the covering letter is after the mcCanns left Portugal.
That's easily found in the McCannfiles. 24th October 2007 is the date of the covering letter from LP.

Do you mean Payne in your last paragraph?



Yes sorry I didn't make myself clear I did mean Payne.

What I don't understand is why anyone would say they had seen Madeleine alive and well and especially while KM was supposedly wrapped in a towel after the question was asked about who saw her last if they were -

involved! Surely they would shut up and say nothing!

So I was/am trying to establish the time lines between these things being said and not having much luck finding the time it was first said that DP had visited KM at GMs request!


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Hummingbird on 27.05.12 16:30

@jd wrote:(Quote) it was not mentioned by David Payne, Gerry or Kate McCann in their initial police statements, despite Kate McCann’s repeated assertions in the book that she had told the police “everything”. The first reference to it comes, oddly, not from either of the individuals involved but from Gerry McCann, in his May 10 statement:

“David went to visit Kate and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, which he refused.”

Sorry jd you have just posted this while I was writing the other one!!

So the first time it was mentioned was before the question over the last possible sighting.

1. is GM making this up because he realises at this point, 7 days in, that perhaps that question could come up!?

2. or, did the visit really happen? In which case in light of the Gasper statement (that he knew nothing of at this time) it is a rather stupid thing to say IF the Gasper statement is true!

3. He says in his very first comment about this, David went to visit Kate and the children and returned close to 19.00 he doesn't say he went to help Kate take the children to the play area. He was gone for almost an hour then if you take the time he arrived back from the Beach Bar (without his own wife & kids) and supposedly with Kate & the children for all that time. Differing statements occur after this BUT this is the first time mention of it has been made so we must assume it is the nearest to the truth. (if of course we are not going on the theory that GM made this up to cover up knowing someone would question the last time Madeleine was seen alive)

4. and biggest question of all is WHY did he try to convince GM to stay and play more tennis?!!



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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 06.06.12 1:42

This bumbling mans statement (a 46 year old Doctor) is incredible, there are no words to describe it. He cannot say a simple thing like he visited kate mccann before or after going to his apartment to get changed. Its only 'makes sense' that it was on the way up! What is this man on!!!!!

And did he get changed? he later says he went to pick up kit, not get changed. Surely you would know if you got changed or picked up kit either before or after making the long trip round to apartment 5A to see kate mccann, not 'its the likelihood that its on the way'....Why aren't SY & Redwood picking up on these things!

And the answer to a very very simplistic question 'How long did you spend in your apartment" is just mind blowing!
-----

1485 "Okay, and it was at what point that Gerry said to you go and, would you mind checking at Kate''
Reply "Well I mean coming back from the beach I'd got no equipment to play tennis you know, etcetera, so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing tennis in, and err so he knew that I'd walk up that by and past so he said oh why don't you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, the way up, so it was on the way back from me picking the stuff up.'

1485 "Right, so you've walked past, you've walked past Gerry's apartment to get to yours.'
Reply "Mm.'

1485 "Got changed''
Reply "No, you know it was, again whether it was, in my mind it was on the way up that I'd popped in to Kate but it could have been on the way back, again, I'm sorry.'

1485 "No, it's okay.'
Reply "For my vagueness.'
00:35:21 1485 "But either way you'd have had to walk past because you go the roadside don't you''
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "So you'd have had to walk past Gerry's''
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Front door twice wouldn't you''
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Is that right''
Reply "So, the reason why I think it was more likely that I did it on the way there was because I've called in through the err patio, it kind of made more sense that I'd have walked in through the gate and then up through the you know where the sliding doors are to say I'm here, rather than going up to my apartment, coming back down, coming past the apartment and then coming in the sliding doors.'

1485 "Yeah.'
Reply "Because what I would have done is I'd have got changed and gone downstairs and then knocked on the front door because that, you know that would have made more sense rather than going all the way round and''
1485 "Yeah, course.'
Reply "So that's in my mind why it makes more sense that it was, that that was on the way up.'

1485 "Right, so how long did you spend in your apartment before, I know you, I appreciate that you can't recall whether it's going or coming.'
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "The likelihood is that it's on the way.'
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "How long did you spend in your apartment''
00:36:24 Reply "I mean again, we've you know, we've chatted about the timings and everything and you know looked at the photographs and you know, you know we were leaving about quarter past six from the err restaurant, we'd gotta walk up there, ten, fifteen minutes, conversation with Gerry, conversation with Kate, you know that's another five, ten minutes on to your ten, fifteen minutes walk so you're talking twenty five minutes, so that's taken you to twenty five to, twenty to seven, well you know we were certainly playing tennis for a, you know the best part of an hour err so you know it couldn't have been long that I was in the apartment, you know a matter of minutes.' bravo

1485 "Yeah.'
Reply "You know just to pick the kit up and, and then go back down really.'

1485 "Did you have your own racquet''
Reply "I didn't, no, I was using the, err Mark Warner's racquets.'

1485 "Mark Warner's, okay. I just want to revisit the going and seeing Kate before we move on.'
Reply "Mm.'

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 06.06.12 2:02

On playing tennis for an hour..between 7pm and 8pm and fiona's run. david payne is bubbling his way to say it was around 8pm, fiona payne is saying it was around 7.15pm. david payne was playing tennis during this time. david payne says:

"1485 "Okay. So then you went back and then you played, you played a game for about an hour''
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "You think from seven, from about seven till about eight''
Reply "Yeah, I mean it must, I mean it was before, I mean we got back before eight o' clock err you know so perhaps just before seven, err sorry, err yeah just before seven so it was just before eight o' clock. As I say when I got back I think I was cutting it fine and Fiona was still keen to go for a run and we started to get everyone ready for bed.'

1485 "Yeah.'
Reply "And err so it was, as I say, about an hour but certainly we'd finished before eight o' clock.'"
------
However, Fiona payne says about her run"
--------
1485
'Right. So what time did he come back then from his tennis''

Reply
'I'd say, if we came back about seven, he was about ten minutes after that, so about ten past seven, quarter past seven, something like that'.

1485
'And then you went for your run. So he told you that before you went for your run''

Reply
'Yeah, yeah'.

00.28.29
1485
'Is that right''

Reply
'Yeah'.

1485
'And so we move on then to your run, it just takes you twenty minutes''

Reply
'Yeah'.

1485
'You came back just before eight''

Reply
'Yeah'.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 06.06.12 2:09

The kids were 'generally' standing up? he was only there for a few mins so they were either sitting or standing not 'generally', there wasn't enough time for 'generally'! How can you ask 2 year old kids to confirm that 'ah yeah, I popped in'!
-----
1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'

1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'

1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.'

1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine''
00:42:39 Reply "It was.'

1485 "How many minutes, you said as a matter of minutes and then you went back and then you played tennis.'
Reply "Mm.'

1485 "I'm gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.'
Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I'd say three minutes, five maximum.'

1485 "Three to five''
Reply "Yeah.'

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 06.06.12 2:14

And just to completely confuse everything. david payne originally sent a written document/questionnaire to LPP on 24th October 2007 saying (in his own handwriting) that he "he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed. "

The document written by Dr Payne is not in the DVD.

The total contradictions and lies are mind boggling. Clearly this 'visit' never happened and was made up. Again why aren't SY picking up on this

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by jd on 06.06.12 2:49

Did david payne and gerry mccann go to beach together at 4am? where gerry mccann broke down?

-----
david payne.... "Me and Gerry you know I'm not sure what time it was, it was you know between three and four o' clock when, again looking for her. We went down err through past the Ocean Club reception, we went down err to the beach and in between all this you know Kate and Gerry were just breaking down you know just their behaviour was, you know was never questioned or did I ever think there was anything strange about you know their behaviour and how they would, they would act, you know in such a set of circumstances and you know Gerry's a very stoical person and you know, I think you know its the way that he's conducted himself over the past few months you know, and he broke down with me on the front, you know. You know just very obviously a broken man, and you know we spent some time you know, not long, I was trying my best to console him, we went back then to the err the apartment, you know it's, by around about four, four thirty in the morning you know there was nothing else that you know that we could do"
-----
fiona payne...." I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up. Erm, and we settled them down and made a bed up for Kate and Gerry and I think it was around sort of half four'ish we decided we should all try and just get, get a rest, because everyone else had gone, you know, it was just, again, it was that feeling of helplessness really, everyone had gone, erm, you know, what are we supposed to do'.
----
dianne webster......."Reply “And err eventually when err Dave and Fiona came back and I can’t remember if they came back carrying the twins or whether they came back first and said the twins are coming up here I can’t remember, err but the twins appeared err in our apartment, they were put down to sleep. That was when the Police had cordoned off the apartment and err Kate and Gerry came up.”

4078 “Yeah.”
Reply “And then a lot of the time was spent with them, frantic really, on the phone to, to family you know absolutely distraught.”
------

Talking of gerry mccann a broken man, we can see how broken he was just 3 days later on his balcony


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by tigger on 06.06.12 6:10

@Ribisl wrote:According to the official version GM had asked DP to give Kate a hand to take the chidren down to the play area. But Kate said no because the children were tired and ready for bed.

JD - if we combine this with the times given by the Paraiso bar CCTV from around 16.00 and list the separate timings of DP, FP, GM and KM, it's going to look very interesting.

The 'reason' for looking in on 5a also differs;
Gerry says it was to see if the children wanted to go to the playground. I can discount that completely. It's a typical Gerry 'what a wonderful dad I am' statement. On a par with reading the children bedtime stories. It's not in character.
But that time is given as 5.00 pm by DP. Probably the same as given by Gerry initially.
At some point during the interviews it must have occurred to GM that it would be better to have the visit later.
DP obliged in his usual way - pity he'd already been very precise on the 5.00 pm. one but what the hell. DP says it's to tell Kate G is going to be late, G asks if K needs help with the children. This makes more sense for the later version of 6.30 pm. It would have been too late to go to the playground by then.

DP and GM going down to the beach and GM being a broken man can't have happened imo.
GM being ' broken' may be partly true that night because so many things went wrong and were 'out of his control'. Gerry likes to have total control I think.

Fiona's run can (5.00 pm visit being out - do no tennis finishing before seven) barely be fitted in as she needed to shower and change as well if the tennis finished at nearly 8.00 pm.

They really are a monumentally boring lot this group. Endless mention of their jogging - being 'into' each other - it's all very nineties, when they were students and that's what they did then. Seems they're suffering from arrested development, especially the Ms with their adolescent wish for celebrity and applause. One is supposed to grow out of that sort of thing.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by PeterMac on 06.06.12 8:53

@jd wrote:snip
The total contradictions and lies are mind boggling. Clearly this 'visit' never happened and was made up. Again why aren't SY picking up on this
How do you know they aren't ?
They are using Holmes 2 and probably Anacapa, and discrepancies like this would pop up immediately.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Guest on 06.06.12 10:45

@PeterMac wrote:
@jd wrote:snip
The total contradictions and lies are mind boggling. Clearly this 'visit' never happened and was made up. Again why aren't SY picking up on this
How do you know they aren't ?
They are using Holmes 2 and probably Anacapa, and discrepancies like this would pop up immediately.

PeterMac, I would be very interested in how the above work. I have heard of Holmes but never anacapa, and I don't know how either work. You feed stuff in and it shows up discrepencies?

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Hummingbird on 06.06.12 12:05

@tigger wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Payne statement only surfaced after Amaral had established that no independent witness had seen her after 4.30 that day.

The usual mix up occurred, Gerry, Payne and Kate all have different times and stories including the reason why Gerry asked Payne to look in.
I've been trying to find it myself - I'll have another go.

The Gaspar statement wasn't sent to the PJ until September, I believe the date of the covering letter is after the mcCanns left Portugal.
That's easily found in the McCannfiles. 24th October 2007 is the date of the covering letter from LP.

Do you mean Payne in your last paragraph?


4th May DP interview - mentions NOTHING about time beore 20:55 and arrival at restaurant

4th May FP Interview - They (meaning DP & herself) went to the beach with the children and her mother arriving about 15.45 left at 18.15 went to tennis courts until approx 19:00. Immediately after the witness headed to the apartment with her children and her mother. 10 mins later her husband (19:10) appeared in the apartment her mother helped by DP bathed the children whle FP went for a jog on beach till 20h.

(later in her RI she states that DP was already at beach and she went with just the girls)

4th May DW Interview - She went to the beach with the children her son in law and daughter. They arrived around 15.45 and left around 18.15 to go to the tennis courts where she stayed until 19.00. The informant then went to the apartment with the small children and 10 mins later her son in law David joined them and with her son in laws help they bathed the children (in her RI she says she thinks she may have gone back to apartment and does not mention D helping bathe the kids)

(she also states they all went to beach together)

10 & 11 May DP & FP NOT interviewed

DW Interview - at 19.00 she had gone together with the Payne couple and their children to the apartment in order to prepare them for bed. Then as usual the adults prepared themselves for dinner.


RI D PAYNE - (summarised for speed) Me and F had gone to beach we had the kids we had lunch in the apartment. (I think he means we got the kids and had lunch as the kids were signed into the clubs) That afternoon I wanted to go to the Ocean err to the beach and windsurf M & R had gone down. So I went down while F & DW were looking after the girls in apt. After we finished we met on beach and played with girls, then went to restaurant. Decided to play tennis so I left with Russell. I don't know how it happened but I went over to see G at the tennis courts just to see what was happening and decided that we'd I'd come back to play tennis and G had asked me to pop in and check everything was alright with KAte you know I can't remember the exact reason whether he was making sure he could have more time but no he asked me to pop in. I went to Kates at 6.30 and went in through patio doors it was after 7.30 that we left the courts.

(I decided to play tennis - according to FP in her RI it was booked and they had rearranged the time)

RI - F PAYNE - We had been sailing (am) and D & I took out a boat together we were drenched and cold so came back to apartment for more clothes about 11.30, sat by pool for a bit with DP saw K & G sat and had a chat. K & I walked to pick up kids only day we did that she picked up Madeleine and I picked up Scarlett (no mention of twins or her other daughter Lily!!)

Mum & I Dave I can't remember went to beach at 3.30. So in that group who walked to beach yeah, me mum I think as I say I can't for Dave. I think he was already had gone by then. Jane with erm Ella and Evie well it would have just it was just Evie because Ella was would have been in the kids club and erm yeah R was with Grace.

(Why was Ella at the kids club it is said that ALL the group were at the beach that afternoon and the kids ate at the beach - CAT NANNY Signs Ella out at 4.30 - WHO collected her then and took her to beach to join the others as this group did not get back till between 6 and 6.30pm?)

RI Continued No Kate didn't come they tended to use the kids club in the afternoon for the twins as well as M and they were the only ones doing that as I say sometimes Ella went in the afternoon but the younger ones non of us put them in the afternoons.
It was the mens tennis that night it was getting towards 6pm and I said you'd better go, you've moved the time, it's not fair if your late, so they left about 6pm then we walked back up to watch them play. By 7pm me and my Mum headed back to start bath time. Dave we left him playing we'd bathed the kids by the time he got back probably 10 mins later

RI D Webster- The men went back before us for tennis, think we went back to the play area or maybe I went back to the apartment.

Fiona went for a run I know that

(that was all she could remember no mention of bathing kids or bein helped by DP this time just FPs run she can remember)


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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by PeterMac on 06.06.12 12:24

candyfloss wrote:
PeterMac, I would be very interested in how the above work. I have heard of Holmes but never anacapa, and I don't know how either work. You feed stuff in and it shows up discrepencies?
For Anacapa have a look at
http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~dsmit01/THESIS/Chapter1.pdf
and then just change the chapter number for the others.
Some of it a bit dense, with the algorithms explained, but the basic idea is the linking of people, things said, things done, and locations in a readily understandable form.
What it does is immediately expose discrepancies.

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Re: MADELEINE BY KATE MCCANN — II (The David Payne visit)

Post by Guest on 06.06.12 12:27

@PeterMac wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
PeterMac, I would be very interested in how the above work. I have heard of Holmes but never anacapa, and I don't know how either work. You feed stuff in and it shows up discrepencies?
For Anacapa have a look at
http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~dsmit01/THESIS/Chapter1.pdf
and then just change the chapter number for the others.
Some of it a bit dense, with the algorithms explained, but the basic idea is the linking of people, things said, things done, and locations in a readily understandable form.
What it does is immediately expose discrepancies.

Thanks very much for that PeterMac. Will have a read.

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