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A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

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A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Guest on 19.06.11 11:56

Who calls anyone that time of the morning? Was it an emergency? Had someone died? Did someone go into hospital?

Did one of the McCann's phone her?

Even more unanswered questions...

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Guest on 19.06.11 12:07

Analytical report of the ANTENNAE LOCATION RECORDS OF MOBILE PHONES OF THE 9
MEMBERS OF THE GROUP
Report pages 30 and 31.
Activations of mobile phone (44)780-858-4191;


Owned/used by: JANE MICHELLE TANNER.
This number activates only antennae of the operator TMN.
The first record from this number occurs on 29/04/2007 at 4:12:33, on antenna "Luz Centro 2"; and the last dated on 17 May, 2007, at 10:10:01 on antenna "Aeroporto-Faro 2".
The existence of 294 records is observed, in which only 3,74% occur before the disappearance of the young girl.
APRIL 2007
On 29th the mobile phone that is owned by Jane Tanner has two activations,
including the one referred to above, both on the antenna "Luz Centro 2".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Guest on 19.06.11 12:42

Strange don't you think, that when Tanner is asked what happened on that first morning, she has great difficulty in recalling what she did, but more importantly she never mentions taking a call just after 4 am. Most people would have great trouble getting back to sleep after a call at that time.


4078 "If I just start by the Sunday and ask you what you can remember about it."
Reply "Yeah I think that first Sunday Exxx didn't go to the kids club straight away purely because it's the first day there and obviously because she had been poorly the week before we thought we'd just see how she, how she is you know before she goes, so she didn't go, she didn't go to the kids club. I can't remember if Exx did, I think she probably did, I mean I can't see any reason why she wouldn't have done so I think she probably went to the kids club in the morning err I honestly can't remember what we did that morning. I don't know, I don't think, I think the tennis lesson, I can't remember whether the tennis lesson started that day or the next day but err so I think, no I can't remember apart from the fact I know Exxxx didn't go, so I presume we stayed with Exxx or either Russell or myself you know stayed with Exxx by the pool because there's like a park area by the pool, so."


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Guest on 20.06.11 10:55


Jane is quite right. Her eldest daughter did not attend creche that first morning after her 4.12 am phone call. But come the afternoon, it would seem that she was suddenly well enough to attend.

Did her youngest daughter attend baby club? That is the question. Jane strangely enough could not remember.

This is a question we will never get to know the answer to sadly, as those records were not included on the DVD.

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Bebootje on 20.06.11 11:08

Note Kikorattons posts on twitter:
http://twitter.com/#!/kikoratton

Is it possible Madeleine died early in the holliday, on 29 april?

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May 3rd or earlier?

Post by Marian on 20.06.11 11:16

That certainly is one of the possibilities that has been considered, Bebootje, as there are no reliable sightings of Madeleine in early May.

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by sharonl on 03.08.16 22:13

bumping this thread for further discussion as it seems that ore and more evidence is coming to light which suggests that Madeleine may have disappeared  around the 29th April

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.08.16 22:34

@sharonl wrote:bumping this thread for further discussion as it seems that nore and more evidence is coming to light which suggests that Madeleine may have disappeared around the 29th April
However, I think the 'phone call at 4.12am was NOT about Madeleine, and quite frankly we should forget about it.

If the analysis on the CMOMM photo threads is correct, she was certainly alive at lunchtime on the Sunday - and that's confirmed by a cleaner who saw the whole family, including Madeleine in a pink dress/smock, leaving their apartment and going up to the Paynes' apartment for lunch.

The strange Make-Up Photo is a puzzle. In another thread on here, no-one disagreed with the suggestion that the Make-Up Photo could have been taken on the same day as the Last Photo.

Another very strange incident which is yet to be explained is what I would call the 'Mystery of the Tapas Restaurant Booking' (which I think was made quite late on Sudnay evening, 8-9pm?). Why did they book the Tapas restaurant all week? Who made the booking? - we have two or three different versions. Look at the stated reason for this booking - do they honestly make sense?

After Sunday, the McCanns changed to having breakfast and lunch in their apartment. Now why would that be? 

The day after Sunday - Monday - was the day someone summoned Murat back to Praia da Luz, and he took the early flight the following morning at 7am. Again, why? Have we really had a satisfactory explanation for this sudden rush back? I don't think we have.

The 4.12am call could have been a wrong number, a scam call, anything. I think it is just a red herring.

But by all means let us put all the events following the Last Photo being taken on Sunday lunchtime (if it was) under a very powerful microscope.

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by sharonl on 03.08.16 22:39

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sharonl wrote:bumping this thread for further discussion as it seems that nore and more evidence is coming to light which suggests that Madeleine may have disappeared around the 29th April
However, I think the 'phone call at 4.12am was NOT about Madeleine, and quite frankly we should forget about it.

If the analysis on the CMOMM photo threads is correct, she was certainly alive at lunchtime on the Sunday - and that's confirmed by a cleaner who saw the whole family, including Madeleine in a pink dress/smock, leaving their apartment and going up to the Paynes' apartment for lunch.

The strange Make-Up Photo is a puzzle. In another thread on here, no-one disagreed with the suggestion that the Make-Up Photo could have been taken on the same day as the Last Photo.

Another very strange incident which is yet to be explained is what I would call the 'Mystery of the Tapas Restaurant Booking'. Why did they book the Tapas restaurant all week. Who made the booking? - we have two or three different versions. Look at the stated reason for this book - does it honestly make sense?

After Sunday, the McCanns changed to having breakfast and lunch in their apartment. Now why would that be? 

The day after Sunday - Monday - was the day someone summoned Murat back to Praia da Luz, and he took the early flight the following morning at 7am. Again, why? Have we really had a satisfactory explanation? I don't think we have.

The 4.12am call could have been a wrong number, a scam call, anything. I think it is just a red herring.

But by all means let us put all the events following the Last Photo being taken on Sunday lunchtime (if it was) under a very powerful microscope.

Would that be the same pink smock dress as we see in the last photograph?

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Statement of the cleaner re:29th May

Post by worriedmum on 03.08.16 23:14

Witness statement

Taken by officer Jose Luis, Inspector

Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Place of work: Luz Ocean Club




''She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground.''




Where is the information about a pink dress/skirt from please? Is this the witness statement you refer to?

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.08.16 7:41

@worriedmum wrote:Witness statement

Taken by officer Jose Luis, Inspector

Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Place of work: Luz Ocean Club


''She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground.''

Where is the information about a pink dress/skirt from please? Is this the witness statement you refer to?
You're quite right, she doesn't say what colour it was. But otherwise, I think you'll agree that this witness statement, about an event on the Sunday, matches what we see in the 'Last Photo'

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Nina on 04.08.16 10:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Witness statement

Taken by officer Jose Luis, Inspector

Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Place of work: Luz Ocean Club


''She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground.''

Where is the information about a pink dress/skirt from please? Is this the witness statement you refer to?
You're quite right, she doesn't say what colour it was. But otherwise, I think you'll agree that this witness statement, about an event on the Sunday, matches what we see in the 'Last Photo'
Madeleine was wearing broderie angleis shorts on  the last photo, a hat ,pink top and no shoes so where is the match to a skirt and flashing soled tennis shoes?

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Roxyroo on 04.08.16 17:02

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sharonl wrote:bumping this thread for further discussion as it seems that nore and more evidence is coming to light which suggests that Madeleine may have disappeared around the 29th April
However, I think the 'phone call at 4.12am was NOT about Madeleine, and quite frankly we should forget about it.

If the analysis on the CMOMM photo threads is correct, she was certainly alive at lunchtime on the Sunday - and that's confirmed by a cleaner who saw the whole family, including Madeleine in a pink dress/smock, leaving their apartment and going up to the Paynes' apartment for lunch.

The strange Make-Up Photo is a puzzle. In another thread on here, no-one disagreed with the suggestion that the Make-Up Photo could have been taken on the same day as the Last Photo.

Another very strange incident which is yet to be explained is what I would call the 'Mystery of the Tapas Restaurant Booking' (which I think was made quite late on Sudnay evening, 8-9pm?). Why did they book the Tapas restaurant all week? Who made the booking? - we have two or three different versions. Look at the stated reason for this booking - do they honestly make sense?

After Sunday, the McCanns changed to having breakfast and lunch in their apartment. Now why would that be? 

The day after Sunday - Monday - was the day someone summoned Murat back to Praia da Luz, and he took the early flight the following morning at 7am. Again, why? Have we really had a satisfactory explanation for this sudden rush back? I don't think we have.

The 4.12am call could have been a wrong number, a scam call, anything. I think it is just a red herring.

But by all means let us put all the events following the Last Photo being taken on Sunday lunchtime (if it was) under a very powerful microscope.


"the day after Sunday- Monday" ! Made me giggle Tony! big grin

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.08.16 17:56

@Nina wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Witness statement

Taken by officer Jose Luis, Inspector

Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Place of work: Luz Ocean Club


''She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground.''

Where is the information about a pink dress/skirt from please? Is this the witness statement you refer to?
You're quite right, she doesn't say what colour it was. But otherwise, I think you'll agree that this witness statement, about an event on the Sunday, matches what we see in the 'Last Photo'
Madeleine was wearing broderie anglaise shorts on the last photo, a hat, pink top and no shoes so where is the match to a skirt and flashing soled tennis shoes?
1. The witness says she remembers a 'skirt'. I am not sure the witness would know what 'broderie anglaise shorts' look like. I have seen what Madeleine was wearing described as a 'dress', 'skirt' and a 'smock'. I concede that the witness could have seen Madeleine wearing something different. No doubt she was doi8ng her very best to remember what Madeleine had been wearing.  

This then raises another issue. Suppose the Last Photo WAS taken at lunchtime on Sunday. Suppose the witness describes a skirt and that Madeleine changed from a skirt in to a pink broderie anglaise smock/dress/shorts. We might well then ask the question: why was she all dressed up after lunch?

2. True, Madeleine isn't seen with shoes on the Last Photo. She had no doubt taken them off to dip her feet in the pool - on a hot and sunny, not a cloudy and cool, day.

If she had shoes nearby, they would probably have been the ones she was clearly wearing the day before:       

"She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground".

These were indeed the shoes she was wearing the previous day:


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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Nina on 04.08.16 18:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Witness statement

Taken by officer Jose Luis, Inspector

Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Place of work: Luz Ocean Club


''She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground.''

Where is the information about a pink dress/skirt from please? Is this the witness statement you refer to?
You're quite right, she doesn't say what colour it was. But otherwise, I think you'll agree that this witness statement, about an event on the Sunday, matches what we see in the 'Last Photo'
Madeleine was wearing broderie anglaise shorts on the last photo, a hat, pink top and no shoes so where is the match to a skirt and flashing soled tennis shoes?
1. The witness says she remembers a 'skirt'. I am not sure the witness would know what 'broderie anglaise shorts' look like. I have seen what Madeleine was wearing described as a 'dress', 'skirt' and a 'smock'. I concede that the witness could have seen Madeleine wearing something different. No doubt she was doi8ng her very best to remember what Madeleine had been wearing.  

This then raises another issue. Suppose the Last Photo WAS taken at lunchtime on Sunday. Suppose the witness describes a skirt and that Madeleine changed from a skirt in to a pink broderie anglaise smock/dress/shorts. We might well then ask the question: why was she all dressed up after lunch?

2. True, Madeleine isn't seen with shoes on the Last Photo. She ha dno doubt taken the moff to dip her feet in the pool - on a hot and sunny, not a cloudy and cool, day.

If she had shoes nearby, they would probably have been the ones she was clearly wearing the day before:       

"She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground".

These were indeed the shoes she was wearing the previous day:

Well trainers certainly don't do justice to a  pretty pair of shorts and top, and sandals would have been more suitable for that outfit but they were worn to supposedly play tennis/collect tennis balls which imo is very dangerous. That apart something just came to mind about the pool photograph.There isn't any sign on the full photograph of the pool of any shoes by the three so did they discard them and then walk away to sit and pose by the pool? Not that it matters, just wondering.

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Re: A FRESH LOOK AT SUNDAY 29th APRIL (Was: Who called Jane Tanner at 4.12 in the early hours of Sunday morning?)

Post by Verdi on 04.08.16 23:39

@Tony Bennett wrote:
But by all means let us put all the events following the Last Photo being taken on Sunday lunchtime (if it was) under a very powerful microscope.
That's sounds like an open invitation..

It wouldn't be difficult for the group to confuse events on Sunday 29th April - it was the first full day of their holiday, before they'd settled into anything resembling a routine of sorts.

Monday 30th April however, is another matter altogether.  Pending the opportunity to refer back to the Tapas groups witness statements, the rogatory interviews in particular, for the moment I'll just say that the Monday was pretty much passed over by the group, with references to the day and evening being much the same as any other.  Then, moving on to Tuesday 1st May, things take a dramatic turn - almost as though the group of friends felt in necessary to provide a more detailed account of events - as though they needed to cover for their movements for that particular day.  Maybe because of a guilt complex or maybe to explain why any one of them may or may not have been seen in or around the Ocean Club - nursery facilities included!

In short nothing much happened on Monday 30th April but it all started to happen on Tuesday 1st May.  This issue sticks in my mind above all else.

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