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Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by PeterMac on 21.07.11 14:04

On Ebay, today Thursday 21 July

MADELEINE by KATE McCANN HARDBACK
1 Bid £0.99 Not specified Time left:1d 4h 23m


More than 40 copies available at various prices !


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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Guest on 21.07.11 14:34

They will be free in the Mail on Sunday soon

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by pauline on 21.07.11 16:37

Stella wrote: They will be free in the Mail on Sunday soon

Brilliant, Stella!

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by PeterMac on 30.07.11 9:03

Back down to about a fiver today, Sat 30 July

Madeleine by Kate McCann (Hardcover - 12 May 2011)
Buy new: £ 20.00 £ 10.00
36 new from £5.75 17 used from £5.18

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Guest on 30.07.11 9:12

Not in the top 50 best sellers either

http://www.thebookseller.com/node/49573

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Invinoveritas on 30.07.11 14:02

German language hardcover due out on September 16th, price at the moment € 16,99

Title translated into English : Madeleine: The disappearence of our daughter and the long search for her.

It´ll be interesting to see the hype in the tabloids.



http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_de_DE=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=madeleine

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by PeterMac on 30.07.11 14:12

@Invinoveritas wrote:German language hardcover due out on September 16th, price at the moment € 16,99
Title translated into English : Madeleine: The disappearence of our daughter and the long search for her.
It´ll be interesting to see the hype in the tabloids.
http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_de_DE=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=madeleine
The next book on the list looks interesting

Analyse des Vermisstenfalles Madeleine McCann (Taschenbuch)
von Daniela Prousa (Autor)

"Analysis of the case of the missing person, Madeleine McCann", (Paperback) by Daniela Prousa.

Do we know what it contains ?

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Invinoveritas on 30.07.11 14:22

Yes PeterMac, I have the book, have started reading it, very interesting, the book goes above and beyond profiling, on one of my first posts I wrote that I would try and make a resumee, bl***y hard work! I´m taking the book on our hols. at the end of August, hopefully I´ll get some time.



P.S. I think Tony mentioned the book as well when he was in Germany just lately

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by PeterMac on 30.07.11 14:24

Have tried putting it though several translation sites, but there is no clue of the direstion the book is facing.
The only dreadful thing is that some of the sites translate -
Madeline as 'Maggot Line' (Made - Line)
A thought which has obviously occurred to most thinking people over the last few years, but is sad to see in print nonetheless.

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Invinoveritas on 30.07.11 14:52

ok, a rough translation of the title, hope I´m not standing on your feet



the analyse of the case of the missing child Madeleine Mccann

a psychological deduction of the public appearances of the parents to the question of their involvement in the case



The book has over 600 pages, I´ve got to 141, Daniela starts off with a short description of the case and then switches to the prevalence of abducted and missing children concentrating on Europe, she then goes on to cover and describe the different forms of pedophilie, i.e heterosexual/homosexual and the targeted age groups, I´ve got this far .

Then she resorts to interviews with leading forensic scientists and criminal officers concerning the behaviour of parents who have lost a child , she uses German officers/scientists here and believe me, they are thorough and in my opinion this is where the Mccanns´hypothesis starts falling apart, the way that they always or nearly always appear together is atypical.

I haven´t got farther than this, sorry

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by lj on 30.07.11 16:22

Take you for that, invino, and take it easy, after all we are a thick 4 years in the case already.



It seems like an interesting book, but the price is steep and I am happy I am not the only one thinking that! (see second comment).

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Gillyspot on 31.07.11 17:19

Interesting that this book is not translated into english as the McCanns and most people donating are likely to be English isn't it. Has there been another Carter Rucking anyone?

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by lj on 01.08.11 0:59

I get the feeling anything not lauding the negligent parents will never reach England.

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by listener on 01.08.11 1:24

@lj wrote:I get the feeling anything not lauding the negligent parents will never reach England.



Have had that same feeling since the 2nd day!

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Dr. Ludke interesting to compare to Pat Brown

Post by tigger on 13.08.11 19:22

@Invinoveritas wrote:ok, a rough translation of the title, hope I´m not standing on your feet



the analyse of the case of the missing child Madeleine Mccann

a psychological deduction of the public appearances of the parents to the question of their involvement in the case



The book has over 600 pages, I´ve got to 141, Daniela starts off with a short description of the case and then switches to the prevalence of abducted and missing children concentrating on Europe, she then goes on to cover and describe the different forms of pedophilie, i.e heterosexual/homosexual and the targeted age groups, I´ve got this far .

Then she resorts to interviews with leading forensic scientists and criminal officers concerning the behaviour of parents who have lost a child , she uses German officers/scientists here and believe me, they are thorough and in my opinion this is where the Mccanns´hypothesis starts falling apart, the way that they always or nearly always appear together is atypical.

I haven´t got farther than this, sorry

Have you ever read Dr. Ludke's take on the case. Very early and translated into English! It's posted on the McCanns abuse of power, if you're interested I'll post it here. These Germans are smart!

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Dr. Ludke

Post by tigger on 13.08.11 19:27

@Invinoveritas wrote:ok, a rough translation of the title, hope I´m not standing on your feet



the analyse of the case of the missing child Madeleine Mccann

a psychological deduction of the public appearances of the parents to the question of their involvement in the case



The book has over 600 pages, I´ve got to 141, Daniela starts off with a short description of the case and then switches to the prevalence of abducted and missing children concentrating on Europe, she then goes on to cover and describe the different forms of pedophilie, i.e heterosexual/homosexual and the targeted age groups, I´ve got this far .

Then she resorts to interviews with leading forensic scientists and criminal officers concerning the behaviour of parents who have lost a child , she uses German officers/scientists here and believe me, they are thorough and in my opinion this is where the Mccanns´hypothesis starts falling apart, the way that they always or nearly always appear together is atypical.

I haven´t got farther than this, sorry

Dr Christian Ludke - Criminal Psychologist

By Uta Keseling
7 September 2007, 18:11
Translation by Nigel Moore

The forensic psychologist Dr. Christian Lüdke leads a company in Essen which supports the victims of robberies, kidnappings, accidents or disasters. He spoke with WELT ONLINE about the possible motives of the McCann couple in the tragic case of the abduction of Madeleine.

WELT ONLINE: You have warned, since early on, that the behaviour of Gerry and Kate McCann indicates their involvement in the crime. What has made you feel that way?

Christian Lüdke: I have, in recent years, cared for many parents who lost their children due to acts of violence. Most of them were under severe shock, feeling helpless, desperate and withdrawn. Many also quarralled. They blamed themselves hugely for not having looked after their child adequately.

WELT ONLINE: It was different with the McCanns?

Lüdke: They live very differently. In public, they are harmonious. Already, after only a few days they went jogging, as if that was a normal thing to do, always appearing together. These parents took matters into their own hands instead of leaving matters in the hands of the police. They distanced themselves from their two other children by going on a European tour, that to me is very strange.

WELT ONLINE: Maybe it was an accident?

Lüdke: No. In such a case, after the first shock, they would have trusted the police. Both parents are doctors, in case of an accident they would have tried to get help. It is even more unrealistic that of all people two doctors would leave 3 children alone in a strange environment, even more at night. I have many doctors as patients. As professionals they know all that can happen to children, and as parents they are overly protective.

WELT ONLINE: What could have been the motive to cause their own daughter's disappearance?

Lüdke: There are parents who have little or no emotional bond with a child. Often such a child is considered a burden that must be dealt with in a brutal or perverted way. The best known is Münchhausen Syndrome by Proxy: The mother tortures the child until it is almost dead and then calls for the police because she herself has a great desire to receive attention.

WELT ONLINE: Do you think it is possible that Madeleine's parents have killed Madeleine and together hidden her?

Lüdke: I believe both parents know what happened.

WELT ONLINE: It means, the McCanns planned the death of their daughter?

Lüdke: Yes, it is possible that they planned this a long time ago, they must at least have played it through in their minds many times and they must have spoken about it together. Otherwise they would now be contradicting each other.

WELT ONLINE: When parents are guilty of killing their child, do they block this fact out of their minds?

Lüdke: Unlikely. Both have clear consciousness, give interviews, travel. It is easier for them to lie than to speak the truth. One can probably exclude a psychosis. Many things point toward a mental disorder. The children of the McCanns were conceived artificially; that can lead to problems in parenthood. Maybe there were self esteem issues that were not openly addressed. Maybe the child had to die due to a problem that had lasted many years.

WELT ONLINE: But the McCanns seem perfect and loving parents.

Lüdke: That public image can be due to a guilt mechanism, like doing a media campaign, to distract attention away from the real problem.

WELT ONLINE: Why do they not go back to Great Britain?

Lüdke: That also speaks against them. When someone loses a child they want to be with their loved ones in a secure environment. By continuing to stay at that resort, where something terrible happened, the worse that can happen to a parent - that is, to lose a child - indicates a survival instinct. As in a mental cinema, these pictures would be constantly running over again. That the McCanns do not return home, where they would have memories of the beautiful times spent with their child, can be seen as an evasive action, in order to avoid having to deal with what they have done.

WELT ONLINE: The world thinks it is impossible that these parents can be guilty.

Lüdke: The media have possibly been taken in by the McCanns. They very quickly attended only after them, instead of around the child. The parents were accompanied like the Beckhams. In his Internet diary, the father writes almost daily about that and other irrelevant/banal things, the shirt he was wearing, what the weather is like. No father in despair could do this. Statistically 70 percent of all the violence against children is caused by the parents, family members or friends. That has unfortunately, to a large extent, not been looked into. The Portuguese police were attacked unfairly when they tried to refer in that direction.

WELT ONLINE: They have already expressed suspicions about the parents, when hardly anyone wanted to know about it. Have you been criticized for it?

Lüdke: Yes, very severely. There were open letters, a campaign on the Internet with professional associations. And I have done no more than look at the whole thing as an outsider.

About Criminal Psychologist Dr. Christian Ludke:

Hochschulstudium:
1. Staatsexamen (Sek. II) in Erziehungswissenschaft, kath. Theologie und Sport Promotion zum Doktor der Philosophie in der Facherkombination Erziehungswissenschaft, Soziologie und Sportmedizin

Berufserfahrung:
1989: New York / USA, Arbeit mit schwer erziehbaren Kindern- und Jugendlichen
1991-1999: Psychologische Ausbildung von Spezialeinheiten (SEK, MEK und VG) bei der Fortbildungsstelle Spezialeinheiten der Polizei in NRW
1999-2001: Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter der Universit ln / Lehrstuhl Klinische Psychologie und Psychotherapie

2001-2007: Geschhrer der HumanProtect Consulting GmbH
Psychologische Akutintervention und Rehabilitation nach (Bank-)Ãllen, Geiselnahmen, Unfllen, Katastrophen und anderen belastenden Ereignissen
-----
Source: Pamalam
-----


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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Invinoveritas on 13.08.11 19:53

Thanks for that ,

a lot of what Daniela writes is in the same stream, I´ll be off on holidays on friday so hopefully (children allowing) I can get some time in to read the book.

P.S. have you any idea whether Clarence Mitchell had diplomatic immunity when he was operating in Portugal?

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Interesting!

Post by tigger on 13.08.11 21:10

@Invinoveritas wrote:Thanks for that ,

a lot of what Daniela writes is in the same stream, I´ll be off on holidays on friday so hopefully (children allowing) I can get some time in to read the book.

P.S. have you any idea whether Clarence Mitchell had diplomatic immunity when he was operating in Portugal?

Highly likely since he was officially seconded to the FO? He was officially government employed until the McCs returned to UK, then he became their paid spokesman.
Very interesting. But any ideas of sending anything large in the diplomatic bag, I think would be difficult. Bags always travel as a paying passenger, never in the cargo hold.

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by lj on 14.08.11 1:10

Diplomatic pouches also travel in the cargo hold, but will be loaded and unloaded under supervision of a diplomat and be held in a special corner, after which that part will be sealed. They can be big packages, depending on what is being send. Personal luggage, even from diplomats, is not treated the same as diplomatic protected ware.

I doubt CM had diplomatic immunity. His assignment had to be at least diplomatic and being a spokesperson for 2 parents who have a missing child, and later even became suspects, even while British, would not do. After all the guest country has to agree to the diplomatic immunity. Last but not least, the immunity only is valid in the country where the assignment is. His luggage would be subject to normal customs search when arriving in his own country. However with the open borders within the European community that would not happen to anyone anymore.



I really think that bringing the body back on a regular flight is highly unlikely, diplomatic or not.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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diplomatic bag

Post by tigger on 14.08.11 8:05

@lj wrote:Diplomatic pouches also travel in the cargo hold, but will be loaded and unloaded under supervision of a diplomat and be held in a special corner, after which that part will be sealed. They can be big packages, depending on what is being send. Personal luggage, even from diplomats, is not treated the same as diplomatic protected ware.

I doubt CM had diplomatic immunity. His assignment had to be at least diplomatic and being a spokesperson for 2 parents who have a missing child, and later even became suspects, even while British, would not do. After all the guest country has to agree to the diplomatic immunity. Last but not least, the immunity only is valid in the country where the assignment is. His luggage would be subject to normal customs search when arriving in his own country. However with the open borders within the European community that would not happen to anyone anymore.



I really think that bringing the body back on a regular flight is highly unlikely, diplomatic or not.

Hi, totally agree with your last line. But I'm sure a guest country has nothing to do with agreeing to diplomatic immunity. That is entirely in the power of the country of the diplomat. This is why for instance, some embassies in London accord diplomatic immunity to the whole of the staff as far down as the gardeners. Most Western embassies simply have a number of diplomats posted and any other staff does not have diplomatic immunity.
Quite a few African countries have an all diplomatic staff in London, which makes it impossible to get them to pay parking fines.

When I answered, I just wondered if you were one of he posters who are convinced M is buried in the UK. Like you, I think that's mad.

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by lj on 14.08.11 16:34

I do enjoy your post very much tigger.



The guest country can refuse the visa necessary to stay in the country, diplomatic or not, or can declare a person persona non grata, and influence that way the ability to come and to stay in the country. Officially diplomatic immunity should only be granted when the work of that diplomat requires that, excluding people like gardeners or cleaners. In those cases these are often fake work assignment to spies. Some countries are quite liberal with giving diplomatic immunity as a kind of "honor", which is against the Vienna Conventions, and the guest country could do something about it but often let it go to protect their own diplomats in that country. It would not make sense to have only the sending country decide who comes and stays under the umbrella of diplomatic immunity, that way a country with bad intentions could send anyone in.

The traffic problems can be addressed by all kind of methods as done in The Hague, New York and Mexico for example.



No I don't think Madeleine was brought back to the UK, at least not by air. I believe the body, or what's left of it, is still in Portugal.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by Invinoveritas on 14.08.11 17:18

In reference to my initial question about CM and diplomatic immunity, I was in no way implying that Madeleine`s body had been brought back to the UK, I am more concerned with the official secrets act of which I had to sign when I worked for a Ministry many years ago and is still effective today, I apologise if I have confused one or two of us

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Entirely my fault.

Post by tigger on 14.08.11 17:41

@Invinoveritas wrote:In reference to my initial question about CM and diplomatic immunity, I was in no way implying that Madeleine`s body had been brought back to the UK, I am more concerned with the official secrets act of which I had to sign when I worked for a Ministry many years ago and is still effective today, I apologise if I have confused one or two of us

No, entirely my fault. I did have an argument once with a poster on another site, who even thought the episode with the dying man on the plane, saved by Gerry, served to get M's body through customs.... too weird for words.

Yes, diplomatic immunity cannot be denied by the guest country, but they can declare you persona non grata and turf you out. I think in particular the Russians used to have a sort of reserve staff in case the F.O. got annoyed again. In London the Nigerians and Saoudis were at the top of the list of unpaid fines, several thousand a year each.
Then many years ago, the FO in its wisdom allocated specific registration codes for each mission, making it thus much easier for terrorists to find their targets. Getting their own back perhaps!

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Re: Madeleine Book out of top 100 in July (was: down to No.18 in June)

Post by lj on 14.08.11 18:31

I have trouble with all those complicated conspiracy theories too. First of all I don't believe there was the time to ponder and prepare all of those steps, and secondly I don't think the McCanns are smart enough. Look at all mistakes they made/make when they are left on their own, no way they can put a very complicated schedule together.



I have no doubt that all government employees send in to save the day had a kind of non-disclosure agreement. I would think though that that would be waived for interviews by police in either country. I dunno, but I think it would not be as absolute as the secrecy of confessions.

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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