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Doctors are beyond reproach

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by LittleMissMolly on 08.06.11 10:25

It's interesting isn't it? ... How people's perceptions can be so distorted by simple things like a person's profession, class or even where they live.

I watched a very interesting documentary recently about Harold Jones - a 15 year old child murderer who in 1921, despite damning circumstantial evidence, was feted by the townspeople of Abertillery, Wales because they refused to believe that 'one of their own' could have committed such an atrocity ... it had to have been 'a stranger', 'not one of our community'. the police were 'framing a young boy because they wanted to be seen to solve the case' ...

Two days after being aquitted and having been carried into his home town on the shoulders of the locals, he killed again - and (even though the girls body was found in his attic) they STILL didn't want to believe it. It was only when he entered a guilty plea, in order to escape the death penalty, that they had to admit that they were wrong.

http://www.abertillery.net/oldabertillery/tales/haroldjones.html

http://www.tubeplus.me/info/1913829/Fred_Dinenage%3A_Murder_Casebook/season_1/episode_5/The_Welsh_Child_Killer/

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by Guest on 08.06.11 10:42

The Mother's actions disgust me more than that of this Doctors and I cannot begin to tell you what I would like to do to him.

These animals have to be stopped.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by lj on 08.06.11 14:04

Group or herd mentality is very strong. I do believe it plays a major role in the McCanns case itself, and is a valid explanation why they stll have so many blind disciples.

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Doctors not always beyond reproach

Post by Marian on 08.06.11 14:19

That's an interesting story Little Miss Molly and shows that some attitudes don't change. People can't believe that someone they know could do something so terrible, it's got to be a stranger. Re dodgy doctors, many many moons ago when I was a teenager I went for a medical in relation to a job interview with the old GLC and had to strip down to my underwear. I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't a pretty sight! The doctor then took my bust size with a tape measure. I was so innocent that it didn't occur to me that there was something wrong and it wasn't till a few years later that a friend was telling me about a different doctor with a reputation for being "handy" that I realised the truth. I was very lucky that it was a comparatively harmless incident and I have great sympathy for anyone who has suffered at the hands of a rogue doctor.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by newguest on 08.06.11 14:39

If you take a look at at CEOP'S A Minute For Madeleine Campaign it also seems the friends (acquaintances) of doctors are beyond reproach too which seems contrary to the information supplied by the National Center For Missing & Exploited Children.

A Minute for Madeleine' video, 03 November 2009
     
Transcript

By Nigel Moore

Screen text:

Madeleine McCann disappeared on 3 May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal

She was nearly four years old at the time

She will now be six years old

Here is a special message

Delivered by the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre

Dr Joe Sullivan: [Voice Over] Madeleine disappeared on the 3rd of May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal.

Madeleine is now six years old.

This is how she might look today [age-progressed image].

We know that there's someone out there who knows who's involved in her disappearance.

They may be keeping this secret out of fear, misplaced loyalty or even love.

Keeping this information secret only increases the anguish of Madeleine's family and friends and increases the risk to other children.

If you know who is involved and you're keeping this secret, remember that it's never too late to do the right thing.

We urge anyone who knows anything about the whereabouts of Madeleine, or who has information regarding her disappearance, to do the right thing now and give that information to their local police.

Screen text:

It is never too late to do the right thing

If you know anything at all

Do the right thing now and contact your local police

Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis For Professionals Investigating the Sexual Exploitation of Children (Fifth Edition 2010)

Copyright © 2010 National Center for Missing & Exploited Children®

Acquaintance Child Molestation.....7

For the public the “default setting” still seems to be stranger abduction. To them child molesters are sick perverts or “predators” who physically overpower children and violently force them into sexual activity. The often forgotten piece in the puzzle of the sexual victimization of children is acquaintance molestation.

This seems to be the most difficult manifestation of problem for society and the law to face.

People seem more willing to accept a sinister stranger from a different location or father/stepfather from a different socioeconomic background as a child molester than a clergy member, next-door neighbor, law-enforcement officer, pediatrician, teacher, or volunteer with direct access to children.

The acquaintance molester, by definition, is one of us. He is not just an external threat. We cannot easily distinguish him from us or identify him by physical traits.

These kinds of molesters have always existed, but society and the criminal-justice system have been reluctant to accept the reality of these cases.

When such an offender is discovered in our midst, a common response has been just move him out of our midst, perform damage control.

missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC70.pdf

Perhaps this all too obvious "oversight" by Dr Joe Sullivan et al could explain the recent changes at CEOP's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

Madeleine Advisers Are Gone

blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:f3bd5110-dd3a-4dc4-b976-d8ab98a9d6e9

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Doctors as other professionals are reproachable, if...

Post by Guestio on 08.06.11 15:19

I've never seen doctors as "gods" as other people seem to see them. In fact, I don't know if it's because I have several in my close family (not that they have done anything unworthy), I've always looked at doctors with a very critical eye.

Quite a few years ago I dated a gynecologist, it didn't last long. The way he adressed his female patients was enough to put me off. Later I had a friendship relation with a woman doctor and her priorities in relation to her job, for me, sounded too strange to maintain the friendship.

Nevertheless, I have doctors that are there for me whenever I feel down or sick. There are very good physicians, but we can't generalise about any profession because we are talking about people, and there are good and bad people, or rather: good and bad behaviour.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by Atilliator on 08.06.11 15:27

Yes, doctors are beyond reproach. How do you think Harold Shipman was able to get away with what he was doing for so long?

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by ufercoffy on 08.06.11 15:29

@Atilliator wrote:Yes, doctors are beyond reproach. How do you think Harold Shipman was able to get away with what he was doing for so long?


But they got him in the end

Watch out McCanns

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by guestio on 08.06.11 16:17

It just warns you that you have to look at the behaviours, not at the looks, the wealth, the profession, the status...


Yes they did Uffercoffy, fortunatelly 


but how many pass through us because of our stupid stereotypes, we don't know!

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Doctors who kill

Post by Marian on 08.06.11 20:06

The Shipman case has interested me from the start. In my opinion he doesn't come into the category of being protected from his crimes because as far as I know he had no friends in high places. He came from a very ordinary working class background and lived in a house that was described as squalid - the sort of place according to the police where you wiped your feet on the way out rather than went you went in! I would hope that it's unusual for a doctor of medicine to choose to live in squalor. His crime spree first started when he ran a practice single-handed and before computerisation of records so that enabled him to continue undetected for years. Some of his patients described him as rude and arrogant but the majority of them thought he was wonderful and, when he was finally arrested after forging his last victim's will, I understand that at first public opinion was hostile to the police for arresting him, blaming the victim's daughter for stirring up trouble out of resentment for being disinherited. We'll never know now what motivated him which is a pity.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by The Shelfstacker on 08.06.11 20:29

Stella wrote:The Mother's actions disgust me more than that of this Doctors and I cannot begin to tell you what I would like to do to him.

Stella, if you haven't done so already, I would urge you to read the transcript of the GMC Fitness to Practice Committee hearing held in respect of Collis in 2007, including final determination and sanction.

You will see the absolutely fine detail the GMC goes into in these public proceedings, far greater, I would submit, than even the criminal courts. The standard of proof is the same, in other words, beyond all reasonable doubt.

What comes out of those transcripts with unalloyed clarity is the fact that of the nine juvenile female patients whose complaints were examined, practically all the mothers got the measure of the man pretty quickly and all were hugely defensive of their daughters, in some cases preventing Collis from going further, and almost without exception made their complaints to the authorities at a very early stage (these offences took place between 1993 - 2003).

You should also Bbear in mind that the GMC case was founded almost exclusively upon the mothers' statements to the police at the time, and so compelling were they that the GMC was moved to consider the case in the FTP Committee, in public, BEFORE the outcome, before even the start of criminal proceedings, very much going against the grain of the normal course of events.

The other thing that stands out from the transcripts is that Collis, despite being pretty obviously "bang to rights" refused to accept culpability and therefore all his young victims and their mothers were compelled to give evidence at the FTP hearing, thus reliving their ordeal. I gather the same thing happened at trial, as he was convicted by a jury not after a guilty plea.

I urge you once again to read the transcripts, downloadable as a PDF from www.gmc-uk.org .Go to the "Check a doctor's registration" link, enter his name (Antony Collis) and go from there. The determination of the committee is lengthy and I would warn you it's not for the faint-hearted. The offences are laid out in graphic detail, the determination damning in its eloquence and the sanction thankfully predictable under the circumstances.

What it does show is that (no disrespect to PeterMac intended), doctors are not beyond reproach. It's a myth.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by LittleMissMolly on 08.06.11 22:24

Thanks for that Shelfstacker - it was a very interesting (and somewhat shocking) read thumbsup

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by The Shelfstacker on 08.06.11 22:45

@LittleMissMolly wrote:Thanks for that Shelfstacker - it was a very interesting (and somewhat shocking) read thumbsup

You're welcome.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by Guest on 17.05.14 8:45

Wasn't sure where to put this article - hope it's ok on this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/16/why-doctors-hide-their-own-illnesses

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by aquila on 17.05.14 9:44

I know personally of an anesthetist who became alcoholic and admitted to being unfit for duty at times. It's not generally known that the medical profession have AA meetings just for the medical profession.

I know personally of my own GP who lost his driving licence for drinking. There was no indignant uproar and it was due to the fact that he was an outstanding community GP spending many quiet hours after work at the homes of dying patients. He was 'old school', there was no appointment system in his surgery - and if it took him 20 minutes to listen to a patient's ailments then that's what he took. He thought nothing of randomly popping into a patient's home just to see if they were ok. He thought nothing of personally contacting other people within the medical profession to pursue treatment for his patients unlike the 'we'll write a letter and refer you' style of nowadays. He worked incredible hours. I believe the night he was breathylised he had gone to the home of a lonely elderly man who was dying of cancer just to sit a wee while.

This remarkable doctor/man lived in the community in a fairly ordinary house, shopped in the local supermarkets and didn't run a 'for big profit' surgery. He ran a surgery that was in keeping with his dedication to healthcare which ruled out the appointment system and the pressure to take on hundreds of patients he couldn't deal with on such a scale. He wasn't a greedy man. He wasn't in it for the money.

Then there is another of my GP's in the past who got into a personal mess and self medicated (don't ask me why) on Pethadine. IIRC the local chemist reported him as there was a jump in the number of prescriptions for the drug. This GP was outed in the press, went before the GMC, got treatment, left his practice and set up a new one. He was a good doctor who screwed up, was publicly humiliated, sorted himself out and carried on with his work.

...and now I get onto another friend who was a medical representative who used to go to surgeries before opening time and told me it was fairly common to see a doctor having 'a nip' before 'opening hours'. In fact, it was said that medical reps weren't averse to taking a bottle of good malt as a sweetener.

I actually don't know what I'm trying to get at here. I've no particular point to make apart from the following:

There is a system of greed and wealth attached to the Public Health Service today that is beyond reproach. It's cancerous. It's not driven by the medical profession, it's driven by the greed of governments and the privitisation of everything that's human about our society. Take a look at the overnight business of Hospital Trusts and you will see that. I was involved in advertising and communications (very low level) for these set-ups and it's a wonder I have a stomach left. I can't tell you how many meetings I went to that remind me of Gerry McCann's NOBO board with a lot of magic marker pens and business speke. Overnight healthcare became an industry. Administrators were re-employed on new contracts and overnight had massive increases in salary and top of the range cars. They used to brag about their new company cars and say how they were so pleased about at last being treated on a par with those professionals in the private sector.

Yikes, this is a very long post.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by Guest on 17.05.14 9:51

Morning, Aquila.  I agree with you about greed, and I believe the government is behind it.  Look at what's going on within the pharmaceutical industry at the moment.  Of course the government is going to agree with this takeover.

ETA: despite all the privatisation has the patient seen an improved service - just take a look at the out of hours service!  Answer, no.

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by plebgate on 08.02.15 16:52

Ladyinred wrote:Wasn't sure where to put this article - hope it's ok on this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/16/why-doctors-hide-their-own-illnesses
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944086/Children-s-brain-doctor-arrested-supply-Class-drugs-month-cocaine-video-emerges.html

This is absolutely shocking.   How many more professionals are getting away with this sort of thing because of blind eyes being turned.   Someone must have suspected something was up with this doctor surely?

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by ultimaThule on 21.02.15 19:23

Unless and until the GMC are prevented from judging themselves, those doctors convicted of crimes which would ordinarily bar them from returning to their former employment will continue to practise on an unsuspecting public

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2870383/More-1-000-doctors-convicted-crimes-child-porn-sexual-assault-practising-banning-breach-human-rights.html

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by plebgate on 22.02.15 12:44

Banning them could breach their human rights blah blah blah. 

Yet again we have to ask  WHAT ABOUT THE ABUSED CHILD'S HUMAN RIGHTS.   

It's a good excuse this breach of human rights for sick, pervy bastards.

These doctors take an oath to ensure  best practice  for their patients.  Surely TPTB cannot believe that abusing their patients is best practice?

Break that oath, pay the penalty IMO.   Breaking an oath (contract posssibly?), how would that breach their human rights if they were struck off?

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by mad world on 23.02.15 0:17

People always should question docs...educate yourself
I fought for 4 years to prove my mum had a broken back...and 6 months to prove my dad had a stroke. Always go with your gut...6 years studying does not make them smarter than us

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Re: Doctors are beyond reproach

Post by Joss on 23.02.15 8:30

@mad world wrote:People always should question docs...educate yourself
I fought for 4 years to prove my mum had a broken back...and 6 months to prove my dad had a stroke. Always go with your gut...6 years studying does not make them smarter than us
I agree, there are a lot of incompetent doctors out there that shouldn't even be practicing medicine. Lots of hospital deaths every year are also due to medical negligence. I think doctoring is more like a money making business nowadays than focus on the wellbeing of a patient. But that's just my opinion.
And IMO any doctor that abuses a child should be punished more than just being struck off a medical register, they should be banned from ever going near a child or patient ever again, and do a long stint in jail. I would personally like to see the death penalty brought back for those a**holes that interfere with children, they deserve nothing less.

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