Why Madeleine is dead

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Guest on Tue May 31, 2011 11:28 am

The Lowe report talks of cellular material. I think that can also mean sweat. There may very well have been microscopic specs of blood on the key-card, far too small for identification purposes which Keela found. But the FSS could have read the results of Gerry's sweat, finding a low-level DNA profile and made it look like it was Gerry's blood that Eddie and Keela alerted to.

Source of Sweat

Your body draws sweat from itself, both at a cellular level and from your blood. Sweat contains sodium, potassium and chloride, which your body requires for optimum health. When you lose too much sweat, you put your body at a disadvantage

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Me on Tue May 31, 2011 11:33 am

Stella wrote:The Lowe report talks of cellular material. I think that can also mean sweat, so I just googled sweat and found this. There may very well have been microscopic specs of blood on the key-card, far too small for identification purposes which Keela found. But the FSS could have read the results of Gerry's sweat, finding a low-level DNA profile and made it look like it was Gerry's blood.
Source of Sweat


Your body draws sweat from itself, both at a cellular level and from your blood. Sweat contains sodium, potassium and chloride, which your body requires for optimum health. When you lose too much sweat, you put your body at a disadvantage


Thanks for that, but the inference i'm drawing is that we can't be certain the scent of death could be on the key, given both dogs alerted to it, we must preusme it's blood, and that the DNA taken from it was Gerry's. Meaning the dogs could have alerted to Gerry's blood.

Do you see what i'm getting at?

I've never know a family go on holiday and bleed so much given the evdience in the apartment and the car though!

I've thought for some time that the fact both dogs can detect blood complicates the findings more than if one was blood only and the other cadaver odour only.

But what do i know, there must be a reaosn they are trained like this.

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Guest on Tue May 31, 2011 11:57 am

Me wrote:
Thanks for that, but the inference i'm drawing is that we can't be certain the scent of death could be on the key, given both dogs alerted to it, I agree

we must preusme it's blood, and that the DNA taken from it was Gerry's. Meaning the dogs could have alerted to Gerry's blood.
But we cannot rule out the fact that Martin Grime has said that sometimes the traces of blood are so small, they cannot be tested with the current methods being used. I would argue that what they did find, could easily have been Gerry's sweat from his palms. Which is not what Eddie and Keela alerted to. Keela could have alerted to the blood that was too microscopic to be found and Eddie could still have alerted to the scent of cadaver also on it.

Do you see what i'm getting at?
Yes I do, I see where you are coming from, but I think this one will be very hard to prove or disprove either way and will always remain a grey area.

I've never know a family go on holiday and bleed so much given the evdience in the apartment and the car though!
Absolutely, it is unheard of.

I've thought for some time that the fact both dogs can detect blood complicates the findings more than if one was blood only and the other cadaver odour only.
I've been looking for the Steve Marsden conversation with Martin Grime, but cannot find it. I also think that having two dogs alerting to blood is pointless, which is why I do not believe that it is as simple as that. I would like to think that Keela alerts to all traces of blood from a living or dead person and Eddie only alerts to blood from a corpse.

But what do i know, there must be a reaosn they are trained like this.
Precisely, we need to find out a little bit more about this I think. I wonder if there is a CSI dog forum somewhere?

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  candyfloss on Tue May 31, 2011 12:12 pm

This from the MccCann files


False positives – Eddie, the dog that specialized in cadaver odour detection, has never given a false alert. He has participated in approximately 200 searches in homicide scenarios in Great Britain and never signalled any products that derived from meat or any other food item.

Human blood – Keela was trained exclusively with human blood; blood that is subject to strict testing and which comes from hospitals. She locates contaminated guns, smells vehicles and clothing items, and accurately detects residues, even if the locations are subject to cleaning.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Guest on Tue May 31, 2011 12:57 pm

What Me is trying to say and we need to remember is that Eddie can also alert to blood.

So far, the only place that Eddie has alerted to, that Keela did not, is in Kate & Gerry's bedroom in 5a. As such, that is the only place we can categorically state was a cadaver alert and not blood.

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Guest001 on Tue May 31, 2011 2:01 pm

Garth on Sun May 29, 2011 1:51 pm
You
wouldnt believe it would you............. a new poster, who pretends to
be a fence sitter and comes on here with his/her first post to condemn
myself.
 
I dont see anyone else challenging the general thoughts
on this forum..............which makes you wonder who is the real person
behind Fency sitter!
 
No need to wonder imo.


The interesting question is Garth is that if the McCanns are as completely innocent as you believe they are why do you feel the need to challenge the general thoughts on this forum (or any other forum) whether they are fence sitters or not? Surely the 'innocent' don't need defending do they Garth or is this, as some will no doubt suspect, more do with defending your own conscience regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?  

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Good old Garth

Post  Marian on Tue May 31, 2011 2:19 pm

Hiya Guest001, you may not know that Garth has been banned from this site, having shown himself to have no interest other than to cause disruption. If you look at RBxHN under the portal heading, you'll find more information. That cryptic user name was another of his identities.

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Guest on Tue May 31, 2011 2:24 pm

I found it !!

In Martin Grime's report, when talking about all of the locations his dogs have searched, he says;


“My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant”.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm#mg2473

It would appear that Martin Grime's had no doubts as to what Eddie was alerting to, it was the scent of cadaver.

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  admin on Tue May 31, 2011 2:54 pm

Marian wrote:Hiya Guest001, you may not know that Garth has been banned from this site, having shown himself to have no interest other than to cause disruption. If you look at RBxHN under the portal heading, you'll find more information. That cryptic user name was another of his identities.


Hi Marian

Garth hasn't been banned, it was his alter ego RBxHN who was banned.

Garth can still post here as a guest.

Bet you can hardly wait.

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Re: Why Madeleine is dead

Post  Me on Tue May 31, 2011 3:07 pm

admin wrote:
Marian wrote:Hiya Guest001, you may not know that Garth has been banned from this site, having shown himself to have no interest other than to cause disruption. If you look at RBxHN under the portal heading, you'll find more information. That cryptic user name was another of his identities.


Hi Marian

Garth hasn't been banned, it was his alter ego RBxHN who was banned.

Garth can still post here as a guest.

Bet you can hardly wait.


To be honest i quite enjoyed the jousting with Garth. I hope he comes back, he still has some unanswered questions that i want replies to.

In relation to R2-D2 he seemed to be more intent on ruining the site than Garth did, and he had no productive contribution to make.

However, and it's just my own opinion, i wouldn't have changed his avatar in the way that it was changed by admin/mods, which then provoked him into his own avatar change rampage. (although the avatar selected by admin was quite funny)

I certainly then can't condone what he did and he deserved to get banned for that.

But it's not my forum and i respect the fact that the forum owner(s) run their forums as they see fit and you either "comply or die".

Clearly he didn't want to comply so he can't complain for being "let go".

I certainly feel the debate is better when you have someone from the other side to discuss the issues with. It would be a shame for all the forum if no "pro's" came on here.

We'd all end up politely agreeing with each other on everything!

I think this past week or so when Garth has been firing questions it's provoked the forum to actually discover and post more information about the case than would have come out had he not been here asking the questions in the first place.

I think the quality of information posted improves and is more informative when you're proving a "pro" wrong.

never thought i'd say but .....come back Garth, i miss you!

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