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75 minutes of crying

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 24.12.12 23:00

You're absolutely right, Peter. They didn't know that/what "we" would know after the release of the [part of of] PJ files. Blame the lawyers and spin doctors? Having said, that - how many times have "we" been saying - entirely for free: "Kate, shut uppo the face"? The release of the files has been a turning point. And IMO they know that. I wouldn't want to walk a mile in their shoes.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 26.12.12 10:52

@PeterMac wrote:It has always interested me that the Rothley meeting was in the hotel / pub / Masonic Lodge
The McCanns have a decent sized house, with a dining room and drawing room certainly big enough for 9.
So how many were there, and why did they not want it in their own home ?

It reminds me of PDL and the church. In that position you'll suspect that phones, e-mails and correspondence are being monitored, premises bugged and a reporter would have spotted them if they gathered at the house. But hotel rooms are safe if they've booked under an assumed name and people only arrive at the last minute.

It's the shift in power that's interesting, how they were able to turn things around. On the one hand they seemed to be inches away from being charged yet on the other even though they were suspects they were able to get information on the case on the pretext of searching for their daughter, they could meet up almost openly because they were after all friends. But to me the most telling is that the rogatory interviews only happened because the McCann's requested it. It gives a message about how disadvantaged the PJ's were.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Inspectorfrost on 03.02.13 17:57

Mrs Fenn says she heard a child crying inthe flat directly below her from 10.30 to 11.45 pm, getting louder and louder,when it stopped as soon as she heard people returning to the flat via the patio doors

Russell O Brien was in his flat all night three doors down, never said he hear a thing even if not asked

Both Gerry and Kate never mention hearing any crying on any of their checks and Gerry inhis statement says they were back home at 11pm that night, so how did they not hear a child crying directly below Mrs Fenns flat for three quarters of an hour?

The Oldfields living next door to theMccanns didnthear a thing all throughout their nightly checks?

So why did NO ONE hear any child crying for all that amount of time?

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Ayniia on 28.05.13 22:58

@Inspectorfrost wrote:Mrs Fenn says she heard a child crying inthe flat directly below her from 10.30 to 11.45 pm, getting louder and louder,when it stopped as soon as she heard people returning to the flat via the patio doors

Russell O Brien was in his flat all night three doors down, never said he hear a thing even if not asked

Both Gerry and Kate never mention hearing any crying on any of their checks and Gerry inhis statement says they were back home at 11pm that night, so how did they not hear a child crying directly below Mrs Fenns flat for three quarters of an hour?

The Oldfields living next door to theMccanns didnthear a thing all throughout their nightly checks?

So why did NO ONE hear any child crying for all that amount of time?



IMO no one else reported that because people around knew they left the children alone at night (still uncertain if it's only a myth that someone had to call the Mccanns one night from the place they were because of the children?) or maybe the only one close enough to pinpoint the exact place of the crying was Mrs Fenn? Anyway this crying incident is still IMO very shady because as people said before,I don't believe Madeleine would cry for so long and not have the twins awake crying too. Also if she woke and cried for that long certainly she would get up and walk around looking for mummy and daddy?
And isn't the 1st the day Robert Murat was back to PDL? But he still hadn't managed to get a hold of his lawyer... so my point is (this is the hard part because there's so many things that don't add up in this case, yes Gerry you're right confusion is good, unfortunately) maybe as some said before,this was the day the abduction was supposed to happen... I don't question the crying incident happening because I believe Mrs Fenn and because the Mccanns didn't denied it but tried to explain it (as they did with many other things dirty nappies/rotting meat/sea bass...). Was it a rehearsal? Was Madeleine alone in the flat and the twins in another because she had trouble sleeping? (I don't really believe the last one because RM was already in PDL and IMO he got there in an apparent hurry AFTER being summoned ). Was it the twins missing their sister?
The more I think about particular aspects of the case the more confused I get Rolling Eyes

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75 minutes of crying

Post by troy on 28.05.13 23:11

Could it be possible that the child crying could have been a recording of a child crying on a baby monitor, to distract and confuse people?

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Ayniia on 28.05.13 23:22

@troy wrote:Could it be possible that the child crying could have been a recording of a child crying on a baby monitor, to distract and confuse people?

Possible yes. But for so long and with the Mccanns giving such poor excuses for it plus it implying them further in child neglect, makes me wonder...

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by worriedmum on 28.05.13 23:23

I am surprised that no-one in the Tapas restaurant heard the crying. It was like dining in your garden.

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75 minutes of crying

Post by troy on 28.05.13 23:39

It might account for the apparent "abruptness" of the silence which occured on the mccanns re-appearance into the flat. Normally a child who ha
s been crying takes a little while to pacify, particularly after 75 minutes.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Woofer on 29.05.13 0:11

@troy wrote:It might account for the apparent "abruptness" of the silence which occured on the mccanns re-appearance into the flat. Normally a child who ha
s been crying takes a little while to pacify, particularly after 75 minutes.

The abrupt end to the crying is odd IMO. When a child has been crying for that amount of time probably in an overheated and wound-up state, I would expect it to subside gradually.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 29.05.13 9:47

I'm not convinced it was a child.


A female adult with a high pitched whiney voice could sound like a child when they cry and "Daddy" sounds very much like "Maddie".


Perhaps another reason to insist she was only ever called Madeleine.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Ayniia on 30.05.13 17:52

Poe wrote:I'm not convinced it was a child.


A female adult with a high pitched whiney voice could sound like a child when they cry and "Daddy" sounds very much like "Maddie".


Perhaps another reason to insist she was only ever called Madeleine.

Now thinking about that, it seems to me that makes sense. The crying started just after Kate's rapid fire calls. Hence the "automatic " dislike of Mrs Fenn, her being sure it wasn't a small child (toddler) and the abrupt stop of the crying.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Newintown on 30.05.13 18:42

@Ayniia wrote:
Poe wrote:I'm not convinced it was a child.


A female adult with a high pitched whiney voice could sound like a child when they cry and "Daddy" sounds very much like "Maddie".


Perhaps another reason to insist she was only ever called Madeleine.

Now thinking about that, it seems to me that makes sense. The crying started just after Kate's rapid fire calls. Hence the "automatic " dislike of Mrs Fenn, her being sure it wasn't a small child (toddler) and the abrupt stop of the crying.

Obviously Mrs Fenn had heard too much, which endangered the McCanns made up "abduction" scenario, so her statement of events had to be denigrated at all costs; the poor lady didn't warrant such terrible derision, the McCanns are disgusting, they really are, as to the depths they will plunge to to protect their own hinds.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 30.05.13 19:06

@Newintown wrote:
@Ayniia wrote:
Poe wrote:I'm not convinced it was a child.


A female adult with a high pitched whiney voice could sound like a child when they cry and "Daddy" sounds very much like "Maddie".


Perhaps another reason to insist she was only ever called Madeleine.

Now thinking about that, it seems to me that makes sense. The crying started just after Kate's rapid fire calls. Hence the "automatic " dislike of Mrs Fenn, her being sure it wasn't a small child (toddler) and the abrupt stop of the crying.

Obviously Mrs Fenn had heard too much, which endangered the McCanns made up "abduction" scenario, so her statement of events had to be denigrated at all costs; the poor lady didn't warrant such terrible derision, the McCanns are disgusting, they really are, as to the depths they will plunge to to protect their own hinds.


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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by plebgate on 31.05.13 0:39

Mrs. Fenn is to be believed imo as she said that she had telephoned a friend about the crying. What sounds more truthful - that statement which could be checked out or two women who were being mean to a plummy voiced old lady, that story being told after the lady had died?

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by aiyoyo on 31.05.13 5:14

I have never ever encountered a child capable of crying incessantly for an hour and a quarter more.

Most distress or sick child would cry intermittently for long spell but would not be something that would alarm the neighbours.

Would imagine the crying was pretty disturbing audible if not loud and consistent throughout the 75 mins for Mrs Fern to note the duration.

One would have thought it's more usual to pick up the phone and report the crying to the front desk if the Reception was 24-hours manned, but maybe the Reception wasn't manned 24 hrs.

No matter what the Mccanns parenting style is plain obvious to all and leaves plenty to be desired.
So if that soothing couple is a pink tale than it is self goal.






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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Ayniia on 31.05.13 22:24

@troy wrote:It might account for the apparent "abruptness" of the silence which occured on the mccanns re-appearance into the flat. Normally a child who ha
s been crying takes a little while to pacify, particularly after 75 minutes.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Mrs Fenn just heard the patio doors, It's not clear if it was someone just entering/leaving the flat.
Reading what people that have kids said here, I don't believe it was a child crying and that stopped abruptly the exact moment someone got in.
That being said I find it weird that she heard the patio doors. I mean that clink or whatever sound to be heard had to be a very distinctive or "rusty hinges " kind of thing. Somewhat pointless remark I'm making I know.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.05.13 22:41

I don't know where in the flat Mrs Fenn's lounge was, but if she heard the patio doors opening at 11.45 on the Tues night, then she would have heard the doors on the Thurs night also? At 8.30pm, 9.05pm, 9.10pm, 9.30pm, 9.55pm, 10pm? Etc.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 31.05.13 22:48

@suzyjohnson wrote:I don't know where in the flat Mrs Fenn's lounge was, but if she heard the patio doors opening at 11.45 on the Tues night, then she would have heard the doors on the Thurs night also? At 8.30pm, 9.05pm, 9.10pm, 9.30pm, 9.55pm, 10pm? Etc.
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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.05.13 22:53

I have just been re reading Mrs Fenn's statement and she says she didn't hear anything from the McCann apartment until 10.30pm on the 3rd. The same time, she heard crying on the 1st. Was this because she had the television on until that time both evenings, and couldn't hear downstairs because of it?

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Guest on 31.05.13 22:55

Good question.
But that might implicate that crying on May 1 started even earlier ?

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Woofer on 31.05.13 22:58

@suzyjohnson wrote:I have just been re reading Mrs Fenn's statement and she says she didn't hear anything from the McCann apartment until 10.30pm on the 3rd. The same time, she heard crying on the 1st. Was this because she had the television on until that time both evenings, and couldn't hear downstairs because of it?

I remember reading something ages ago about it being after the news finished. I can`t find it in her statement, so maybe read it in the press.

Wonder if her friend Edna could throw any further light on this.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.05.13 23:03

Bingo, Chatelaine? Do you mean that you think there was nothing to be heard? It would be interesting to know if you can hear 5A's patio door everytime it opens, from upstairs.And which rooms you could hear crying from as well.

Just seen your new post Chatelaine, yes I think the crying on the 1st could have started earlier, quite probably from a few mins after the parents went out. I think Madeleine might have gone into the lounge, over by the patio doors, so that Mrs Fenn could hear her from upstairs, but so that it didn't wake the twins. Possibly.

Also, just seen another new post. Edna would be a good person to ask, did Mrs Fenn always watch the news. Also would like to know the layout of the upstairs flat.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by Woofer on 31.05.13 23:06

Like Aiyoyo, I`ve never heard of any child crying for such a long period of time - its damaging for starters and wouldn`t the child end up being exhausted?

If it was an adult female crying, it would certainly explain a lot.

And yes, unless they are the very modern patio doors, they always make a clunk - I can always hear my neighbours and Mrs. Fenn`s lounge must have been right over their lounge.

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by tigger on 07.01.14 10:27

1) Allegedly: told Fiona and JT that Sean and Madeleine had cried. Statements made inrogs. april 08
2)Statement 4/5 M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.
Statement 4/5 Gerry M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.
Request 5/5 to LPO Markley to make the PJ aware of the crying.
3)Statement 10/5 Gerry - M and Sean. (is there a statement from K same day kept back?)
4)Statement 6/9 Kate - Madeleine alone.

ad 1) Dr. Roberts: A crying shame.
And those episodes of retelling in hindsight? They took place at the
dinner table on Thursday night, i.e. before Madeleine's absence had been
noted. That is not hindsight at all, but foresight, the all-important
observation being made to friends first, the police afterwards (by both
parents on 4 May, Gerry again on 10 May, Kate once more on 6
September and Gerry on the 7th).

ad 2)(Dr. Roberts) -witness statement by Leicestershire Police Officer
Stephen Markley, made on 25 April, 2008, in relation to his activities as
family communication officer while working in Portugal with the
McCanns. The key aspect (for present purposes) of his statement is as
follows:
"However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At
about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment
where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the
meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they
wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
"One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was
Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she
was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she
remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why
neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see
what was happening."
It's only when this desire is set against the fact that they had already
(4 May) twice
told the PJ themselves about the incident, that their
request to Officer Markley on the 5th appears overly insistent.

ad 3) A week later, when advisors are on the scene as well as PR advice,
Gerry changes it to Madeleine and Sean.

ad 4) It was reported by the McCanns themselves in their 'one year
on' documentary of 30 April, 2008, and in their interview with
Dermot Murhaghan for Sky News a day later.
Kate says : Madeleine asked about crying alone.

Same interview Gerry says: ..there was one night that Madeleine had come through and
one of the twins was crying ......

Now the essential part of the crying is that Maddie asked about it the following morning.
It’s imo one of the questions answered before they are asked:
Was Maddie alive on Thursday morning? Because if she was alive then, it is proof positive
she was alive up to then.

It seems to me that it’s an evolving lie. The important part was Maddie speaking. Not who
or why there was crying.
As the narrative regarding paedophiles evolved (quite quickly - being watched etc.) the
change made by Gerry on the 10th is telling me that the story is now being added for extra
drama. Madeleine, the lead player, is added.
By September they’re going the whole hog and the twins aren’t even mentioned.
Fiona and JT would says what they were told to say at the rogatories, there is no proof that
she actually mentioned the crying on the 3rd. I think they gave the same story as the
McCanns on the 4th: the twins.
Then Gerry gets it wrong in the Sky interview and goes back to his version of the 4th,
because he doesn’t say Maddie was crying.
Those 14 sms ( new instructions?) were sent on the 2nd.
The 2nd being the day which is hardly mentioned (Dr. Roberts, 30 days).

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Re: 75 minutes of crying

Post by worriedmum on 07.01.14 12:17

Thank you for that very detailed analysis, Tigger, it makes it easier to see all the differences.

Iirc Mrs Fenn said she heard the patio doors and then the crying stopped. I was a bit surprised that she could hear the door opening/shutting above the sound of the crying. I wonder if she heard the crying stop and then heard the door-which might alter the scenario a little?

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