The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.


Jill Havern
Forum owner

The Tapas 10

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Tapas 10

Post by ROSA on 20.05.11 13:15


  1. Kate McCann
  2. Gerry McCann
  3. Dr David Payne (“heart specialist”),
  4. Fiona Payne ( “doctor wife”),
  5. Dr Russell O’Brien (”hospital consultant”),
  6. Jane Tanner,
  7. Dr Matthew Oldfield (“endocrinologist”),
  8. Rachel Oldfield (doctor’s wife)
  9. Dianne Webster all met in one Leicestershire hotel and no-one saw?
  10. ?

ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 31
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 20.05.11 13:23

Fiona trained as an anaesthetist

and I think the list should go

10?

11?

12?

remember what Moita Flores said ? read my quote below.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by ROSA on 20.05.11 13:27

Stella what is the story with the 3A site it seems to be running?

ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 31
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 20.05.11 13:42

I'm not sure ROSA. It's been a long time since I was on that site.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by rose58 on 20.05.11 15:37

I remember reading on the Mirror Forum that there was an older gentleman, a brother of one of the group who had an argument with one of them and left pdq. Whether this was in the newspapers or whether it was a poster saying so I cannot remember.

rose58
Guest


Back to top Go down

how well did the group really know each other?

Post by russiandoll on 29.01.13 10:28

AM RUNNING OUT OF EDIT TIME AND HAVE HAD TO SORT OUT A LOT OF TEXT RE- FONT, FONT SIZE AND COLOURS WHICH APPEARED AFTER I COPIED AND PASTED TEXT FROM THE POLICE FILES... APOLOGIES...IF STILL ILLEGIBLE AND ANYONE CAN FIX IT I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL... THANK YOU !

SO WHO IN THE GROUP OF FRIENDS ACTUALLY KNEW MADDIE MCCANN?

from Kate McCann's statement 4th May 2007 :

She has known some members of the group since the year 2000 and others for a year. [persons not specified].

from other early statements of the group : 4th May 2007:


GM - Nothng about how long members of the group had known each other.


ROB - He is a colleague of (Gerry) McCann, having worked together for six months

JTShe says that of all
the holiday group, the couple she knows least well are Kate and Gerry

MO- ]That he has known Madeleine's parents
for around five years.

RM/O- she knows the exact ages of the children [ unless these are just typed fby police...but I thought those details would be elsewhere in the files and have nothing to do with the witness statements unless a witness mentioned these details] ?...They
traveled from London to Faro airport with their daughter Grace, aged 19
months. This trip was organised for
a group of nine adults
and eight children. Her husband and her daughter are part of the group:

*
The couple, Russell
O'Brien and Jane
Michelle Tanner, with their daughters, Ella aged three and a half
and Evie aged 19 months.
*
David and Fiona Payne
with their daughters Lily aged three years and Scarlett aged 12 months.
*
Gerald (Gerry)
McCann and Kate MCann
with their twins, Sean and Amelie, aged 26 months and Madeleine aged 4
years.

The
holiday was organised because the men in the group are all doctors,
apart from Fiona Payne
and Kate McCann
who
worked together for a long time. These shared holidays are usually
organised for the whole group, although
for the last holiday,
last September, Gerry McCann and Kate McCann did not go to Greece with
the group.
[/size] [ Imo this is very strange wording and could be down toawkward translation. Does she mean the reason for the break was to do medicine-related?] Has to be a misunderstanding on part of translator because Kate and Fiona are also doctors.. if there was a misunderstanding leading to msitranslation why is there this.."[After reading
with the interpreter, who explains to her, she goes on and signs."

DP
- That he has known Madeleine's parents for around
5 years.[/size]

FP- She has known the girl's parents, Gerard (sic) and Kate, for about seven years. She got to know them through Kate when
they worked together.She knows that the couple has three children, twins who are two years of age and Madeleine, who was almost four years
old.[ no exact ages given]

DW - [She has known
the parents of the
missing child, Kate and Gerald, for around four years, through her
daughter. They have since become friends.


10th/11th May 2007


GM -]in January
2003 he went to
Lanzarote, in Spain, with Fiona and David Payne, where they spent a
week's holiday not having any children
at that time. At that
time, despite having no children yet, KATE was 6 months pregnant with
MADELEINE,Still
in 2003, in September, he went to Umbria, in Italy, with his wife KATE,
and the couples MATHEW and RACHEL,
and RUSSEL and JANE, for
a week's holiday where they attended FIONA and DAVID's wedding. [acc to Gerry, had met the entire tapas lot 4 years prior to the PDL holiday]

In
respect of the McCanns (composing of Gerald McCann and Kate Healy), the
deponent clarifies that he has known them
only for about four
years, since the wedding of David and Fiona Payne which took place in
the summer of 2003 in Italy.




However, he relates knowing that the McCanns already knew the other couples for some years and they had been on holiday
previously with them, together with the Paynes.

]RO/M She got to know the McCann family at the marriage of David and Fiona, in Italy in 2003, at which time MAdeleine
was already 4 months old. She does not know of any enemies.


ROB -

Questioned
how he came to know the elements of the group which accompanied him on
holidays, states that he has
known David Payne since
1989, having frequented the same University where they both studied
medicine
. He also worked with
him in the same hospital
even though in different specialities. He got to know Fiona through
David Payne, a couple that married
four years ago, with the
deponent serving as the couple's best man



He got to know Matthew Oldfield in 1994, as they were both doctors. They became friends and Russell served as
Matthew’s best man at his marriage to Rachel Mampilly in 1999


• He got to know
Gerald (Gerry) McCann more recently, in 2002 or 2003
, given that Gerry
was also a doctor. The
contact between them was
established by the Payne couple. The four couples get together when
they have an opportunity but,
as they live certain
distances from each other, they seize the opportunity to get together
during holiday periods. All the
couples have children of
roughly the same ages, which is also a factor in their friendships

JT- About 4 years before, through her companion Russell O'Brien, who at that time was a colleague of Gerald (Gerry) McCann
(father of Madeleine Beth McCann), she met the McCann couple.Fiona Payne is a common friend of both couples.As
for meeting with the McCanns she said sporadic meetings have already
occurred between the group
, recalling that the
first trip they made
together was when Fiona and David Payne were married in Italy in August
2003


Also they had had holidays in England in August 2004 (Cornwall) and April 2006 (Longleat nature reserve). Those holidays
were spent solely with David and Fiona Payne, and their respective children.



With
the McCanns they began to meet at parties, for example weddings and
birthdays.
She met Kate Healy's mother, whose
name she does not
recall, on Madeleine Beth McCann's third birthday last year, but she
didn't get to know any of the other
McCann family members,
knowing that both had siblings but not knowing other details.


This was the first time that all four couples had holidayed together. [ALMOST FOUR YEARS SINCE THE PAYNE WEDDING].
She knows that, in Sept 2005, the McCanns and the Paynes holidayed together in Majorca, she [and Russell] not having
joined them because of her advanced state of pregnancy.

DW
- Concerning her relationship with the members of that group, adds that she would have no direct relationship with them
as they are individuals close to the Payne couple.



She thought the
Payne couple started a relationship of friendship, insofar as her
son-in-law, David, had attended the
university together with
Russell, which will have been extended to two other couples (McCann and
O'Brien), because the members
of those couples, except
for Rachael and Jane, were [also] practicing doctors.


Asked, she states that it is the first time that she has been on holiday with that group, knowing, however, that some
of those couples have already spent holidays together on other occasions.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by monkey mind on 29.01.13 12:52

Nice work RD.

So, it is clear that the O’Briens and the Oldfields are far more familiar with the Paynes than the McCanns. The Paynes appear to be the glue.

It was almost 4 years since they had holidayed together in Italy for the Paynes wedding when MM was only months old.

JT apparently was around on MM’s 3rd birthday but frankly as a witness her value is zilch. After bundleman and improving memories if her integrity isn’t in question her powers of observation must be.

The McCanns and Paynes had holidayed together in Sept 2005 when M would have been 2yrs 4 mths.

So the only ones we could say would likely know, ie be in a position to identify the 4 year old Maddie would most probably be the Paynes who travelled out with the McCanns. The Oldfields and O’Briens travelled separately.

Also, considering she was hidden away in crèche every day and bundled into bed every night it is debateable how much any of them actually saw of her if anythig? Wasn’t it JT or RO who said about lots of little blonde girls all looking the same...?

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 14:41

@monkey mind wrote: [...]Wasn’t it JT or RO who said about lots of little blonde girls all looking the same...?
***
That was Bridget O'Donnell, MM, the partner of Jes [Jeremy] Wilkins, in her "My Months with Madeleine" article in the Guardian:

"Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with
some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court
chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there,
but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the
same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by russiandoll on 29.01.13 14:56

will re read files to see if there is any more clarity on

how often the Oldfields saw the McCanns prior to May 07
how often the O Briens saw the McCanns prior to 2007.
am still wondering how many of those adults would recognise a face changed since babyhood.

bearing in mind...

the group hardly saw Maddie who was in creche each day and was not with the group at lunch, the McCanns choosing to eat in 5a.
saw her at tapas tea times.

I know the sub idea is far fetched, but there is evidence of G signing in another child and forging a signature in the creche records
the twins were separated from Maddie every day.
does anyone know for sure if the twins spent lunchtimes in 5a with Maddie?
so bathtimes and bedtimes....
unless others present who would know if there was a 3rd child in 5a?

did anyone talk about seeing G in the company of a man other than one from the tapas crew?

who did Kate only know for a year? first meeting was 2003.

so maybe there was a 10th, 11th tapas....did not the police refer to up to a dozen people ?

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Lady-Heather on 29.01.13 16:00

Quite likely, perhaps including the 'tall man' who made the tapas reservations on the Sunday, who was curiously accompanied by 'Madeleine' according to the OC receptionist:

""She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.

When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company"

Lady-Heather

Posts : 140
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-10-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 17:16

@Lady-Heather wrote:Quite likely, perhaps including the 'tall man' who made the tapas reservations on the Sunday, who was curiously accompanied by 'Madeleine' according to the OC receptionist:

""She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.

When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company"



The above translation has a word missing. I have posted this up before, there is a word missing that makes all the difference. The word is THAT. This is what I posted before on the tapas reservation thread....



The translation above highlighted in red has a word missing and that is why it has caused much confusion. I read about this omission ages ago on MCF. The word THAT is missing....

It should read......

She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group
THAT arrived with the child Madeleine McCann
,


So this person was on his own, not with Madeleine, and a member of the tapas group, a tall thin man, either MO or ROB I would think. Have a look at the original Portuguese statement and you will see the word THAT clearly in it.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4475p30-tapas-reservation-sheets

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by monkey mind on 29.01.13 17:26

Châtelaine wrote:
@monkey mind wrote: [...]Wasn’t it JT or RO who said about lots of little blonde girls all looking the same...?
***
That was Bridget O'Donnell, MM, the partner of Jes [Jeremy] Wilkins, in her "My Months with Madeleine" article in the Guardian:

"Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with
some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court
chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there,
but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the
same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Thank you Chatelaine.....

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by monkey mind on 29.01.13 17:38

candyfloss wrote:
@Lady-Heather wrote:Quite likely, perhaps including the 'tall man' who made the tapas reservations on the Sunday, who was curiously accompanied by 'Madeleine' according to the OC receptionist:

""She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.

When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company"



The above translation has a word missing. I have posted this up before, there is a word missing that makes all the difference. The word is THAT. This is what I posted before on the tapas reservation thread....



The translation above highlighted in red has a word missing and that is why it has caused much confusion. I read about this omission ages ago on MCF. The word THAT is missing....

It should read......

She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group
THAT arrived with the child Madeleine McCann
,


So this person was on his own, not with Madeleine, and a member of the tapas group, a tall thin man, either MO or ROB I would think. Have a look at the original Portuguese statement and you will see the word THAT clearly in it.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4475p30-tapas-reservation-sheets

That’s the trouble with translations isn’t it.

Thing is though if we take it at face value the only other male element *that arrived* with the child Madeleine McCann that we know of , is David Payne and clearly that description is not him.

O’Briens and Oldfields arrived separately did they not? They did not arrive withthe child Madeleine McCann. It would have become apparent to a stranger as the week went on they were a group.

So we either take the statement at face value or extend it to anyone who arrived on the Saturday.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 17:56

Interesting.
It would great if some re-questioning of some witnesses would be on the agenda ...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 18:07

I personally think the person is talking about the group that were with Madeleine, they were a group all together, i.e all the tapas 9, and I think that is what is meant.



She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group
THAT arrived with the child Madeleine McCann
,

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by russiandoll on 29.01.13 18:35

Well I have just finished a long post and it has vanished.. why does that happen ?!

черт побери ! [ Mild swear in Russki well I am a russian doll so it's allowed]

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 18:39

@russiandoll wrote:Well I have just finished a long post and it has vanished.. why does that happen ?!

Have a look in your profile under drafts...it may be there.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 18:44

It has happened to me too. That's why I took the habit to either write in Word and then copy and paste it here [but that would occasionally change the left and right lining] OR I would copy as I write along and then paste it again, when the comment goes "woosh" ...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 18:49

Sometimes when you try to post you get a message saying someone else has posted and you get two options to either 'modify' or 'save' - if you 'save' then it should go into your profile under drafts but if you 'modify' then just try posting again - you don't have to modify.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by russiandoll on 29.01.13 18:52

thanks folks, I did not click the draft button even in error, I was modifying it so will do a search ,otherwise re-write later. There was a fair amount of c and p so might not take too long ..


p.s. no not in drafts, I must have clicked something in the middle of highlighting text, never mind .

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by monkey mind on 29.01.13 19:46

candyfloss wrote:I personally think the person is talking about the group that were with Madeleine, they were a group all together, i.e all the tapas 9, and I think that is what is meant.



She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group
THAT arrived with the child Madeleine McCann
,
You are probably right Candyfloss. Normal procedure would be to take a further statement for clarification. In this instance this particular statement wasn’t considered important prior to shelving the enquiry, it has since gained significance if for no other reason than to clear up its own ambiguity and the possibility of an unknown person.

To be honest, a lot of these statements and interviews – and I’m not just talking of the Pt side – lack depth. Some are okay, others providing a sketchy overview rather than detailed information.

And at the end of the day, the devil is always in the detail.

monkey mind

Posts : 616
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-12-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Inspectorfrost on 29.01.13 19:54

I think it was MO as he is tall and thin

ROB is not thin

RO is said to have made the booking so likely she sent MO

Inspectorfrost

Posts : 841
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2012-12-09

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Lady-Heather on 29.01.13 22:26

So going back to the topic of the thread, the receptionist stated that a 'tall man' who arrived with the Madeleine Mccann party, made the tapas reservations. Could it be that the T9 were actually 10, or 12?

I do not believe it was any of the T9 males. Firstly, the description doesn't fit, second - why would another male (ie. not GM) take Madeleine Mccann with him to make dinner reservations?

The only explaination that makes sense to me is that it was not Madeleine Mccann that the receptionist saw and recalled, but another, similar looking child whom the receptionist later believed to be the missing Madeleine Mccann.

Lady-Heather

Posts : 140
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-10-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Nina on 29.01.13 22:30

@Lady-Heather wrote:So going back to the topic of the thread, the receptionist stated that a 'tall man' who arrived with the Madeleine Mccann party, made the tapas reservations. Could it be that the T9 were actually 10, or 12?

I do not believe it was any of the T9 males. Firstly, the description doesn't fit, second - why would another male (ie. not GM) take Madeleine Mccann with him to make dinner reservations?

The only explaination that makes sense to me is that it was not Madeleine Mccann that the receptionist saw and recalled, but another, similar looking child whom the receptionist later believed to be the missing Madeleine Mccann.

thumbup

____________________
Not one more cent from me.

Nina

Posts : 2657
Reputation : 223
Join date : 2011-06-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Tapas 10

Post by Guest on 29.01.13 22:35

@Lady-Heather wrote:So going back to the topic of the thread, the receptionist stated that a 'tall man' who arrived with the Madeleine Mccann party, made the tapas reservations. Could it be that the T9 were actually 10, or 12?

I do not believe it was any of the T9 males. Firstly, the description doesn't fit, second - why would another male (ie. not GM) take Madeleine Mccann with him to make dinner reservations?

The only explaination that makes sense to me is that it was not Madeleine Mccann that the receptionist saw and recalled, but another, similar looking child whom the receptionist later believed to be the missing Madeleine Mccann.

As explained earlier Lady-Heather a word was missed out. It is worded wrong, so it is just the man alone who went to receptionist, Madeleine wasn't with him.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum