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The Shutters

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 12.08.11 9:08

Nice to see you back Me, some very good work there thumbsup Perhaps you should send it to SY, to save them a lot or work big grin

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Me on 12.08.11 9:08

@ROSA wrote:That is alot of info Me but i dont see why Philo says it was locked

Perphas becuase on the night of the 3rd/4th that's what Gerry and kate told her??

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Me on 12.08.11 9:15

Hi candy!

Well what this does, I hope (and it took my ages to compile it all) is nail once and for all any uncertainty regarding the stories given on locks, shutters, windows and points of entrance.

Clearly the 5 family members and friends were given this information from Kate & Gerry that night. Where else would they have got it from?

That then begs the question why would Kate & Gerry say this to these people and get them to pass it onto the media if it wasn’t true?

Then when it quickly becomes clear there was no break in we see a clear attempt to create a narrative to support their abduction theory but at the same time they rapidly backtrack from their initial pronouncements (which had no evidence to support them) about a break in as evidenced by the changing statements.

For me the most damning sequence of events of this case against them is the events of that night and how they reported them at the time to both their friends and family and subsequently the PJ.

Forget anything else said later on or in Rogatory statements, they’ve had time to refine their narrative then to try and fit around the mess they got in on the 3rd when they tried to convince the world a break in had occurred and couldn’t manage it.

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Welcome back to Me

Post by Guest on 12.08.11 9:29

It's great to "see" you back on the site Me.




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Re: The Shutters

Post by Me on 12.08.11 9:41

Thanks Jean!

This is always one of the things that has bugged me about the Pros and their rabid cries of “look at the files, look at the files”.

They only want to look, in the main, at the later statements in the files and the Rogatory interviews as though it is the be all and end all of evidence.

What never gets mentioned is the fact that this later evidence doesn’t always match with what was said earlier, has clearly been worked on, and a lot of it (particularly from the Mccann’s) is hearsay based on what other people said or did.

We know about the infamous meeting with lawyers at Rothley to “discuss the evidence” and looking at the way stories and statements changed, it’s safe to assume that the stories have been colluded on, developed, sanitised and worked on.

For me the best guide to the quality of witness evidence (particularly on long running cases like this) is to put more faith in statements given earlier on in the case, because this is evidence untouched by lawyers, and unrefined by later desires to get out of the hole a witness is in when a clearer picture emerges in the case.

John Blacksmith in his blog posts nails this subject far more eloquently than i ever could, and for anyone wanting to find out more i would recommend a visit to McCann files and look over his blog postings.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 12.08.11 11:04

i think Philo was in PDL at the same time the Mccans was there

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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 12.08.11 11:12

Maddie is dead 28th 29th what do they do? get help but who can call who the secret guest can call anyone onphone

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Re: The Shutters

Post by lj on 13.08.11 4:45

Me is back!!!


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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 14.08.11 20:27

@moroneylm03 wrote:

just been re-reading this thread and the above comment popped out - my understanding is that Kate is saying she went to close the door a little, then it slammed shut...then she opened the door, and only THEN did she notice Madeleine was gone.... so basically, if the wiind hadnt slammed the door shut, she wouldve left the apartment and gone back to her dinner, safe in the knowledge her 'checking on the children' task was adequate....
.

I agree, Moroney. Did Katie forget that she was supposed to be actually checking on the kids? I am really surprised that nobody has ever asked her about that. Why would she go to close the door when she gets to the kids bedroom?

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Re: The Shutters

Post by PeterMac on 14.08.11 22:42

Molly wrote:
@moroneylm03 wrote:
just been re-reading this thread and the above comment popped out - my understanding is that Kate is saying she went to close the door a little, then it slammed shut...then she opened the door, and only THEN did she notice Madeleine was gone.... so basically, if the wiind hadnt slammed the door shut, she wouldve left the apartment and gone back to her dinner, safe in the knowledge her 'checking on the children' task was adequate....
.
I agree, Moroney. Did Katie forget that she was supposed to be actually checking on the kids? I am really surprised that nobody has ever asked her about that. Why would she go to close the door when she gets to the kids bedroom?
Because it was all made up. The whole thing about the checks. Remember they first said hourly, then every 15 minutes, then settled on half hourly. Then couldn't work out which couples were supposed to have checked on which children. GM and KM never checked on anyone else's children, but everyone and his dog (sorry, that really was a Freudian slip !) checked on the McCanns children.

If I had been presented with this load of tripe during an interview, I would have leant back in my chair and said words to the effect "Come off it Sunshine. Do you want to have a couple of minutes to think about this, and then let's start again."

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Re: The Shutters

Post by lj on 15.08.11 0:41

Calling Kate sunshine??? You're a brave man, PeterMac




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Re: The Shutters

Post by Gillyspot on 15.08.11 7:53

I thought I'd add here a couple of words from Dave Payne given to Portuguese press on the 4th May 2007. They were in Portuguese so have been translated using google translator.

Espresso 11:38 Friday, May 4, 2007

David Payne

According to Dave Payne, a friend of the child's parents who accompanied them at the dinner that took place while the girl disappeared, the couple suspected that her daughter was the victim of a premeditated kidnapping, due to how the suspects entered the apartment without alerting the other children and without possessions.

The friend states that were having dinner in a restaurant that is located in the Ocean Club resort, a few dozen meters from the apartment where the family was staying for about a week and visibility to the front of it.

When given the disappearance of the child, the parents thought that she was in the apartment or had left briefly, because the child's bedroom door was open. However, it was when they came across the bars of the windows of this room forced (located in the rear of the apartment and not visible from the restaurant) who suspected that something serious had happened. Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, also said Dave Payne.

http://aeiou.expresso.pt/crianca-inglesa-desapareceu-no-algarve=f95282

Barlavento May 4, 2007 | 14:35

David Payne

The parents of British girl who disappeared Thursday in the Algarve suspect that the daughter was the victim of a premeditated kidnapping, due to how the suspects entered the apartment without alerting the other children and without property.

The information was advanced today by the Lusa a friend of the child's parents, an English couple, who accompanied them at the dinner that took place while the girl disappeared. According to Dave Payne, the British were having dinner in a restaurant that is located in the complex Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where they were staying for about a week. This restaurant is located about 50 meters from the apartment where they were sleeping missing girl and her twin brothers two years and have visibility the façade of the dwelling. The friend of the couple explained that while they dined, parents were often to see if the children were well and would have been approximately 21h20 that gave the disappearance of the girl, whose name is Madeleine. When given by the disappearance child's parents thought that she was in the apartment or had left briefly, because the child's bedroom door was open. However, it was when they came across the bars of the windows of this room that forced suspected that something serious had happened. The windows of the apartment - where suspects have entered - are located in the rear and not visible from the restaurant where her parents dined. Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, Dave Payne said. The couple confirmed which was not stolen any material possession, which led them to suspect that this was a "premeditated kidnapping." Immediately, parents and friends began searching for the child, a total of fifty people, as they waited by the Portuguese authorities, which were aware of the disappearance at about 22:00, said Dave Payne Lusa. The English said that one of the guests have seen, during dinner, a "suspicious person" to carry a child in his arms, although at the time did not suspect anything strange, since that is an area frequented by many families. The friend of the couple said they had flight scheduled for today, but will remain in Portugal "for as long as necessary." This case is being monitored by the British Embassy Portugal, which provided a translator to make the link with the Portuguese security forces. On the ongoing investigation, Dave showed some "concern", although it has declined to comment on the procedure of the Portuguese authorities and those affected.

Interesting that even on the at 2.30 on 4th May - David was showing some "concern" over the Portuguese investigation.

Also an early Jill Renwick interview

Barlavento 9.45 am 4.5.07

Jill Renwick

According to this friend, the bedroom windows were broken into and had open, and the girl was removed from the room. Jill Renwick said that the parents chose this resort Algarve precisely because it is presented as suitable for families. "It was the first time they did . They are the parents very, very anxious and careful, "he added. The couple, from Leicester area, also has twins, said her friend.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 1:13

I don't know where we are at with the McCanns shutters story.....They were jemmied, GM closed them, then it changed to KM closed them. Im a bit lost with the Tapas 9 version of the shutters it has changed so much. Anyway whatever the latest McCann version of the shutters are, just to clear up a point for those who don't know the shutters in Spain/Portugual, having just come from Spain... where I was able at first hand test them out. It is impossible to open them from the outside without ripping them beyond repair. And the noise is very loud to say the least and in a quiet resort, any neighbour would have heard them be opened and closed, so to rip them would have caused a huge noise that would have raised any neighbours curiosity to what the hell is that

You can only open the shutters without damaging them from inside an apartment using the chord. If you are skilled (which I became being the last to go to bed!) there is a way you can use your weight on the chord to open/close the shutters quieter but they still make noise, and this can only be achieved from inside the apartment

As there was no damage to the shutters then if it is true they were open (which it isn't) then they could only have been opened from inside the bedroom. Putting aside KM fingerprints the only ones on the window, no abductor would enter an apartment from the front door or unlocked patio door and then escape by opening the shutters. This is absolutely ridiculous. The proximity of the rooms to each other are so very small only a complete buffoon would do this, and even a buffoon would have more intelligence about them to go back out the open door


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Re: The Shutters

Post by Gillyspot on 10.09.11 1:24

To me (despite what so called "pro" McCann fans say the statements regarding the shutters are evidence. Several of Team McCann said shutters were damaged (choose your word to describe this) but all had been briefed before the PJ (or GNR) made it clear that the shutters were not damaged in any way (John Hill, Manager from the Ocean Club said as much in a media statement on 4th May 2007). Thus even though the stories are not in the official police files surely the fact that there are so many "witnesses'" saying that Kate & Gerry McCann said shutters were damaged is evidence is it not?

Perhaps someone has it on tape (video?) and can pass to Scotland Yard.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 1:34

@Gillyspot wrote:To me (despite what so called "pro" McCann fans say the statements regarding the shutters are evidence. Several of Team McCann said shutters were damaged (choose your word to describe this) but all had been briefed before the PJ (or GNR) made it clear that the shutters were not damaged in any way (John Hill, Manager from the Ocean Club said as much in a media statement on 4th May 2007). Thus even though the stories are not in the official police files surely the fact that there are so many "witnesses'" saying that Kate & Gerry McCann said shutters were damaged is evidence is it not?

Perhaps someone has it on tape (video?) and can pass to Scotland Yard.

The damage would have been substantial to open them from the outside, and permanent damage. I have never seen any pictures from the scene that shows this amount of damage, infact I have never seen any damage unless they were replaced which is highly unlikely. You can't damage them a little because this won't open them, you have to rip the whole thing like it is a permanent fixture

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Gillyspot on 10.09.11 1:54

Also even if a so called "abductor" got the shutters open then the window was locked from the INSIDE according to the McCann statements. I have no "shutters" or blinds on the outside of my windows (in my house) yet I know when the windows are locked someone would need a brick or some such blunt force instrument to get in (hammer etc) . So shutters should surely be unimportant unless you were staging a crime scene.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 2:08

@Gillyspot wrote:Also even if a so called "abductor" got the shutters open then the window was locked from the INSIDE according to the McCann statements. I have no "shutters" or blinds on the outside of my windows (in my house) yet I know when the windows are locked someone would need a brick or some such blunt force instrument to get in (hammer etc) . So shutters should surely be unimportant unless you were staging a crime scene.

Yep, there would also have to be substantial damage to the window or at least to the lock as well to get this open. To my knowledge there were only KM's finger prints on the inside! Who are they trying to fool!

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Gillyspot on 10.09.11 2:19

And Kate McCann's fingerprints were consistent with "opening the window" - Now why would that be if a so called "abductor" had done that? Let's hope SY are reading this forum and making notes.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 2:28

@Gillyspot wrote:And Kate McCann's fingerprints were consistent with "opening the window" - Now why would that be if a so called "abductor" had done that? Let's hope SY are reading this forum and making notes.

Plus there was no print marks on the outside either, the abductor must have telepathic powers and used positive mind control to open the shutters and window!!! maybe Uri Gellar was involved and in PDL at that time!!

Im afraid I don't have much faith in SY, with the amount of powers involved in this lie I can't see SY uncovering the truth....just being realistic

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They're not very bright.

Post by tigger on 10.09.11 8:38

@Gillyspot wrote:Also even if a so called "abductor" got the shutters open then the window was locked from the INSIDE according to the McCann statements. I have no "shutters" or blinds on the outside of my windows (in my house) yet I know when the windows are locked someone would need a brick or some such blunt force instrument to get in (hammer etc) . So shutters should surely be unimportant unless you were staging a crime scene.

Arrogant, narcisistic people are rarely intelligent. These two also seem rather immature, stamping their little feet and shouting when they are questioned.
Perhaps Gerry messing with the shutters was to get al least some fingerprints on them so that the alleged ones from the burglar would not be missed.
In the bewk the shutters figure again and can be opened from outside.They're very unwilling to let go of them.
From time to time they do have some amusement value, sometimes they remind me of Wallace and Grommit, the way they're sitting in interviews.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 11:14

@tigger wrote:
Arrogant, narcisistic people are rarely intelligent. These two also seem rather immature, stamping their little feet and shouting when they are questioned.
Perhaps Gerry messing with the shutters was to get al least some fingerprints on them so that the alleged ones from the burglar would not be missed.
In the bewk the shutters figure again and can be opened from outside.They're very unwilling to let go of them.
From time to time they do have some amusement value, sometimes they remind me of Wallace and Grommit, the way they're sitting in interviews.

Quite simply, get the McCanns to show us how to open these kind of shutters from the outside without ripping them apart and causing big permanent damage.....its impossible

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Re: The Shutters

Post by littlepixie on 10.09.11 17:08

I am staying in a remote finca in Spain. When I arrived last Saturday I was given a security lecture by the property owner who has lived here 24 years. She instructed me to lower every shutter when going out and her words were "because They are IMPOSSIBLE" to break into.

Us Brits who are not used to these shutters were taken in with the lie that the shutters on 5a had been "jemmied" and that Maddie had been abucted through them, but anyone living in a Country that uses these shutters must have known straight away that it was BIG FAT lie, that only a Brit would believe.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by lj on 10.09.11 17:42

I had these in the Netherlands as anti-theft protection and got a nice discount on my insurance for the same reason.

Where I live now they are called hurricane shutters, because in case of a hurricane they give more protection that boarding up.



I guess it would take a tormenta McCann to have them easily opened. Yeah right. They are really not that smart to make up such bad stories.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by PeterMac on 10.09.11 18:19

Gradually people are begining to realise why they refused to return for a re-construction.
" So can you just show us the view you had of the apartment from the bar ? Thank you.
Could you now show us exactly where you were standing in the narrow lane when JT came past... Fine, thank you
And JT could you now walk past to demonstrate to us how they could not possibly have noticed you... Ah, yes. Quite.
Could you now show us how you opened the shutters from the outside. Oh, I see !
Would you be good enough to get into that nice shiny Police van waiting outside. You have the right to remain silent, ..... "



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Re: The Shutters

Post by jd on 10.09.11 18:24

They are build sturdy and very strong and my Spanish friends would think nothing of having these shutters closed with the window behind open when going out, they are this secure and impossible to open from the outside. they are also good protectors of the strong sunlight too

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