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Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

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Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

Post by moroneylm03 on 13.05.11 21:54

my overall hope for this case is that its investigated fully, and a once and for all conclusion made - based on all the evidence together, not just the bits that Team McCann and the media want us to believe.... and hopefully Madeleine will be found alive and well.

For those (including the McCanns) that are daft enough to think she should go back to live with them....although that would possibly be great for all 3 kids... its surely not a wise decision for the courts to make... given this little piece on child abuse/neglect...

What is child abuse?


All parents upset their children sometimes. Saying `no' and managing difficult behaviour is an essential part of parenting. Tired or stressed parents can lose control and can do or say something they regret, and may even hurt the child. If this happens often enough, it can seriously harm the child. That is why abuse is defined in law. The Children Act 1989 states that abuse should be considered to have happened when someone's actions have caused a child to suffer significant harm to their health or development.

Significant harm means that someone is:

  • punishing a child too much
  • hitting or shaking a child
  • constantly criticising, threatening or rejecting a child
  • sexually interfering with or assaulting a child
  • not looking after a child - not giving them enough to eat, ignoring them, not playing or talking with them or not making sure that they are safe.

    taken from The Royal College Of Pyschiatrists website - http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/mentalhealthandgrowingup/childabuseandneglect.aspx

    that last point seems to trigger a few pointers... palming their kids off everyday on holiday to a kids club (rather than playing with the kids themselves)... ignoring them (didnt bother to find out what Madeleine was talking about when she asked why no one had come to her and Sean crying the night before)... and not making sure they were safe.... well we all know the outcome of that.... - (to appease both McCann supporters and sceptics - she was abducted/killed/accidently harmed -whichever happened, its still wrong and harmful).

    surely if the Childrens Act 1989 states that it is law that the above 'significant harm' pointers are all under the term of abuse, then regardless of whether Madeleine is found or not, alive or dead, her parents (those at the time responsible for her welfare), should be charged with child abuse?

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by Joss on 08.10.11 20:27

    Should the McCanns face Child Abuse charges if Madeline is not found? I think that would depend on what the Law says about it, and what would the charges be as a consequence? Also what Country should the charges come from, Portugal or the UK?, considering Madeline went missing in a foreign country. Perhaps because they are british citizens it would come under british laws, in co operation with the authorities in Portugal, from where the child went missing? I also think if charging them would be appropriate in lieu of the circumstances, then the McCanns should not be given special priveledge because of their protectors, but should be treated as anyone else that has broken the law. The law cannot be biased because of someone's social status. After all a crime is a crime no matter who perpetrated it.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by truthsoup on 08.10.11 20:36

    Moroney - Nobody has any evidence of child abuse. M was not listed as a child at risk before she went missing.

    Your statement

    palming their kids off everyday on holiday to a kids club (rather than playing with the kids themselves)

    If the above constitutes child abuse then what about the thousands of holiday resorts that offer creche facilities whilst the parents are out all day sightseeing? Are you calling all these parents child abusers?

    You also do not know if the McCanns ignored M. You did not live with them. You have never met them or their family so you cannot judge.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by littlepixie on 08.10.11 23:38

    Neglect IS child abuse in UK law and leaving 3 babies regularly in an unlocked apartment is neglect. If the McCanns are telling the truth when they say they neglected their children every night of their holiday then they abused them. If it had happened in the UK and had just been a one off they would have been warned had social services been aware of it, as they say they did it every night it would have been taken further.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by Shibboleth on 08.10.11 23:47

    By the McCanns own admission, their child went missing, because they were not there.

    There is no denying this simple fact. She has been harmed because she has been taken away from her family. (This is to give the McCann couple the benefit of the doubt, that she was truly abducted, how you call Devils-advocate).

    She came to harm because of the action of the parents. Not one time but many times over. Therefore this is neglect, if not abuse.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by PeterMac on 09.10.11 8:20

    @Shibboleth wrote:By the McCanns own admission, their child went missing, because they were not there.
    There is no denying this simple fact. She has been harmed because she has been taken away from her family. (This is to give the McCann couple the benefit of the doubt, that she was truly abducted, how you call Devils-advocate).
    She came to harm because of the action of the parents. Not one time but many times over. Therefore this is neglect, if not abuse.
    And their constant repetition of the mantra that there is no evidence that she has come to harm becomes more nauseating by the day.
    Right from the first they said she was in the hand of a pae*****. By definition they cause harm, as K described so unnecessarily.
    Merely being taken from the 'love and care' of the parents and away from siblings will cause psychological harm.

    As someone posted not so long ago -
    A serious question to Gerry and Kate: - Can you set out, so that we can all understand, a scenario - any scenario - in which Madeleine has not come to any harm over the last 4 years.



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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by Daisy on 09.10.11 13:18

    This is the definition of child abuse given on Leicestershire County Council website:

    http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/social_services/children_young_people/children_at_risk/child_abuse


    Child Abuse


    'Somebody may abuse or neglect a child by inflicting harm or by failing to act to prevent harm'

    Children can experience abuse at homes, in leisure activities at
    school, in children's homes - in fact anywhere. The abuse is usually
    caused by someone the child knows and rarely by a stranger. It is also
    important to recognise that children can be abused by other children.

    Main Categories of Abuse


    Physical abuse: causing injury or suffering to a child
    Emotional abuse: persistent emotional ill treatment of a child
    Sexual abuse: involvement of a child in sexual activity, including access to pornography
    Neglect: failure to meet a child's basic physical and emotional needs.



    "Children can also be significantly harmed if they witness or are involved in Domestic Violence. It may be appropriate to contact Childrens Social care about this."

    I Think the McCanns are guilty on at least 2 counts of what the law defines as child abuse.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by happychick on 09.10.11 13:28

    Emotional abuse: persistent emotional ill treatment of a child

    And the McCanns continue to emotionally abuse the twins by telling them Madeleine was taken by a monster because the twins told the newspapers when they were just a few years old that they intend to find and fight the monster who took their sister.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by Smokeandmirrors on 09.10.11 15:12

    I do not think the McCanns should face charges of neglect. I just do not think it would help the twins one little bit, and it must be hard for them growing up under the shadow of all this. The twins wellbeing must be put first IMHO. WHatever public support the McCanns think they have, the very vast majority of people would not leave babies alone in an unlocked apartment, and were shocked and angered by their actions, that is just a fact. No if, no buts, they are forever going to be linked with the fact that everyone in the world knows that they left their babies each evening despite being able to afford baby sitters and with educational backgrounds that suggest they should have been more responsible and I truly think that is punishment that goes well beyond anything a court could dish out. They are famous for all the wrong reasons and won't ever be able to change that, and that is a horrible situation to be in.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by C_Bass on 09.10.11 15:17

    Why is ok for other parents to face neglect charges then? What about the children of other neglectful parents?
    Maybe the law should be changed now to embrace and support all neglecting parents because it's not fair that the McCanns get away with it because it's hard on the twins.

    Neglect was hardest of all for Maddy.

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    Re: Should McCanns face child abuse charges even if Madeleine not found?

    Post by Smokeandmirrors on 09.10.11 15:33

    @C_Bass wrote:Why is ok for other parents to face neglect charges then? What about the children of other neglectful parents?
    Maybe the law should be changed now to embrace and support all neglecting parents because it's not fair that the McCanns get away with it because it's hard on the twins.

    Neglect was hardest of all for Maddy.

    I understand your response, but to answer specifically about the twins wellbeing in this, there is no suggestion of the McCanns being of material harm to their remaining children. In other cases, at least the ones I have read about, the issue is normally broader and more severe than this case. The issue is normally part of a bigger picture, a whole lifestyle of incompitence and bad parenting, not in the same league at all. Also, other parents who have been charged do not have the infamy, the millions of people who are horrified at what they did, or to put it bluntly, a globally bad reputation. Plus they would never be charged with neglect, because it would serve no purpose, as far as we know, apart from this fateful PDL holiday, there was no other known cause of harm or neglect to the children. Opinion is not fact beyond all reasonable doubt that would have to be proven in a court of law. I would sooner any potential legal action concern itself with the nature of the fund or known discrepencies in statements given to the police.

    I expect many would disagree with my view, but that's life. I just think anyone persuing a neglect charge could be compared to fishing for sardines (scuse the pun) when there are whopping big tuna out there!

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