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mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

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mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by DCB1 on 23.12.09 18:08

acknowledgement to pfa and J4:

From today's 24 horas, translated by Pedro on J4.

Gerry and kate insists that the Portuguese authorities considers no evidence of proof that they are behind thei daughter´s disappearance.

Couple McCann defends themselves from the attacks of former PJ inspector.

Madeleine´s parents writes open letter to Gonçalo Amaral.

Madeleine´s parents are tired of what they say is misrepresentations" of reality carried out by Gonçalo Amaral. In an open letter, they say they are entitled to the good name and that is constantly challenged by the former PJ inspector.

By considering that the news that have been published in the last few days about the civil proceedings which opposes us to Gonçalo Amaral contains misrepresentations of truth or interpretations of the law in force in Portugal, true to the rights enshrined in the Constitution, we understand we must clarify the following questions:

1. Freedom of speech and the right to respect and good name:
Freedom of speech is a fundamental right provided in the Constitution of the Portuguese Republic. But also are, regardless of the nationality, the right to a fair treatment and access to the right and to courts, to moral integrity, to good name and reputation, the obstruction of the perpetuity of sentences and the presumption of innocence until res judicata effect of criminal sentences. Also is the right of resistence to unlawful aggression. As it is, specially, the right to life.

The restrictions to all these rights, says the Constitution, can only exist to protect fundamental rights.

So, we ask, to any common citizen who reads us, if understands that both nof us, which ae not accused of any crime, and were considered innocents by a dispatch which concludes from, the coordinated investigation at its crucial moment by Gonçalo Amaral "not achieved any element of proof which allows that an average man, to the light of criteria of logical, of normality and the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, wisely, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances in which checked the removal of a child from an apartment, not spell out, even, a consistent prognosis", we have the right to be left in peace, to see preserved our lives, our name, and, above all, the search to find our daughter, whose right to life, in the light of the Portuguese Constitution, is sacrosant? Given the content of this order, from the responsability of two judges, where the book of Mr. Amaral is clearly condemned, even before being published, can we say that the conclusions of that book are logical, normal, lucid, wise, serious or honests? That should be protected by law and by court?

Does the book brought any advantage or boost to the investigation about the disappearance of our daugther? Or only enriched the author, publishers, advisors, commentators, and who gave voice?

We are certain that it would not be difficult to understand the size of our open wound. We ask to each one to put the case itself. Therefore we have the right to face the aggressions that we have been continuously subject, to the courts, whose decisions are sovereign and free. What will come next, for us or against us, it´s not censorship or undue advantage, it is only the result of balancing freedom of democratic standards and fundamental rights to which both we and the author of the book we are subjet.

2. The injunction:
The injunction of the book aprehension has already two judicial labels and can and should be released by interest to all citizens, who in name of the freedom of speech, are in risk of being accused for life, after being considered innocents by the courts. We do not sell that decision anywhere, contrary to the author of the book, at least until the suspension of the same, such as our conversations with reporters, formal or informal, not happen in return of financial compensations, also contrary to Gonçalo Amaral, that while he could, did or tried to.

3.Economic suffocation:
Gonçalo Amaral, at the end of September of 2009, when requested to the State to assume, with the contributions of the Portuguese , the payment of all his procedural costs in all the iniciatives triggered by us against him, declared that he had no real estate and companies, and that only his wife had a car. But, the truth is, at that time, like now, he was the owner of a Villa for seven years and built a personal company for almost a year, in addition to having bought, according to him for 40.000 euros (35.65760 £) the now famous Jaguar, who he registered in the name of this company, created with the social capital of 5000 euros (4457.20 £).

That Villa was already placed under sequestration, since 2005, by António de Sousa Amaral, which is believed to be a relative from Gonçalo Amaral, and the same Villa was also seized two times, either by the Treasury in 2006, for various tax debts, either by the Espírito Santo Bank, which instaured against him the execution which runs in terms with the number 969/07 by the 3rd Court of Olhão, by lack of payment of the loan. The last endorsement of the burden of his house dates of May 19th of 2008, precisely a year before the purchase of the Jaguar. All these records are public and can be consulted at the Conservatórias dos Registos Predial, Comercial e Automóvel (Conservatory of Property Records, Commercial and Auto). The lack of payment to the creditors does not work, because, from our judicial activity, which, so far, has not seen any seizure, in his benefit, any goods, that, previously, not already being compromised, nor any guarantee that Gonçalo Amaral be a beneficiary. The Treasury, his family and the bank took care of it before.

4. Judicial costs:
Gonçalo Amaral says that the costs he has to pay for the civil action, which seeks an order for payment of compensation, amounting to about 30.000 euros (18.721.6 £) and first he has to pay it and only then he can challenge the action. First, by considering this amount, he is taking his action to lose, because only in this case is that you have to pay more than the application fee required. On the other hand, not only was challenged, as not paid, have asked for the support of the State, as stated above. And if he had to pay, he would pay, to be able to challenge that process, only the maximum value of 2040 euros (1818.54 £) or the minimum 1530 euros (1363.90 £), depending only the way his lawyer talks with the Court. To check these values please consult, for example:
https://igfij.mj.pt/custas/Paginas/Autoliquidacoes

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 18:12

As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by DCB1 on 23.12.09 18:43

I think you have to remember that the host of this forum is a supporter of amaral.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 19:00

@DCB1 wrote:I think you have to remember that the host of this forum is a supporter of amaral.

It's not a prerequisite that all members must be amaral believers, is it?

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Ruby on 23.12.09 19:03

tyra wrote:As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

Amaral believes what he says; your interpretation seems to be otherwise.
After reading the case files, reading Amaral's book and watching Amaral's video, so do I.
After watching, reading and hearing the Mcs contradicting themselves the longer this goes on the further they're digging themselves in.
I would be more inclined to say they are the leeches here, throwing other peoples' money around to prevent the truth coming out.
As for their 'open wounds' they are stuck in self pity city and have been from the start.
It is Madeleine I feel sorry for, not some faux-gauche people, disingenuously claiming naivety where as far as I can see, none exists.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 19:12

@Ruby wrote:
tyra wrote:As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

Amaral believes what he says; your interpretation seems to be otherwise.
After reading the case files, reading Amaral's book and watching Amaral's video, so do I.
After watching, reading and hearing the Mcs contradicting themselves the longer this goes on the further they're digging themselves in.
I would be more inclined to say they are the leeches here, throwing other peoples' money around to prevent the truth coming out.
As for their 'open wounds' they are stuck in self pity city and have been from the start.
It is Madeleine I feel sorry for, not some faux-gauche people, disingenuously claiming naivety where as far as I can see, none exists.

Perhaps he does believe what he say, just as perhaps Tony Blair believed it was right to mislead the british public, but just as there was no evidence of WMD there is no evidence of any crime committed by the McCanns and to assert that there is is morally reprehensible and libellous. No excuse for either.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Ruby on 23.12.09 19:18

Well Clarence Mitchell would be your expert in misleading the public.
He would sell his own granny so no surprise he's moving into politics.
Mind you, Isabel Duarte's giving it a go too, with her press release saying they were cleared.
Waste of time when Portuguese people know otherwise, but a bit of window dressing for the Brits again, no doubt.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 19:23

@Ruby wrote:Well Clarence Mitchell would be your expert in misleading the public.
He would sell his own granny so no surprise he's moving into politics.
Mind you, Isabel Duarte's giving it a go too, with her press release saying they were cleared.
Waste of time when Portuguese people know otherwise, but a bit of window dressing for the Brits again, no doubt.

What makes you think Clarence Mitchell has ever misled the public, let alone an expert in it? he has spoken hundreds of thousands of words throughout his employment to speak on behalf of the McCanns and has been shown to be incorrect perhaps two or three times, that makes him virtually flawless, imho.

I have no idea what the portuguese people know or don't know, they were treated shambolically by their press, misled and lied to repeatedly (in much the same way as the uk press did for their readership).

Unfortunately the official investigation files are too long, detailed and not of interest to the average punter on the street and so essentially the media 'got away with it' their crime against that child and her family, the rumours remain, the lies repeated endlessly. Shameful.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Slartibartfast on 23.12.09 19:27

@Ruby wrote:
tyra wrote:As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

Amaral believes what he says; your interpretation seems to be otherwise.
After reading the case files, reading Amaral's book and watching Amaral's video, so do I.
After watching, reading and hearing the Mcs contradicting themselves the longer this goes on the further they're digging themselves in.
I would be more inclined to say they are the leeches here, throwing other peoples' money around to prevent the truth coming out.
As for their 'open wounds' they are stuck in self pity city and have been from the start.
It is Madeleine I feel sorry for, not some faux-gauche people, disingenuously claiming naivety where as far as I can see, none exists.

But what Amaral believes is wrong. There is an error in his appraisal of the evidence. His reading of the DNA, for example, is wrong.
He directly contradicts John Lowe's conclusions ie. too complex for meaningful interpretation. He has interpreted the evidence despite the advice of the scientist.
There is nothing conclusive in the investigation so he has opted for a hypothesis that has no evidence to back it up.
People cannot be convicted on presumption. That is what he is doing.
Where? When? Why? How? Who?
In light of the charges of the ex-arguidos ie. concealment of a corpse the above questions have to be answered with evidence and not assumption.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by preciousramotswe on 23.12.09 19:40

I think the McCanns' reply to the claims of Amaral that he is being gagged are excellent.

He is not being gagged, he is being called to account for what he has said, and that is a different thing.
They haven't beggared him, he did that himself all on his own some time ago.

And the question of the fees is a good one - it's one that many people have been debating, and it's clear that the claims he has made about court fees are wrong.
Either that, or based on the presumption he will lose - which is telling in itself.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 19:47

badmanners wrote:I think the McCanns' reply to the claims of Amaral that he is being gagged are excellent.

He is not being gagged, he is being called to account for what he has said, and that is a different thing.
They haven't beggared him, he did that himself all on his own some time ago.

And the question of the fees is a good one - it's one that many people have been debating, and it's clear that the claims he has made about court fees are wrong.
Either that, or based on the presumption he will lose - which is telling in itself.

I have no clue why is is trying to spin that he is gagged, he must have a serious lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is if he thinks he can make up a cock and bull story about some innocent people, write a book and make a small fortune from it without being called to justify himself.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 20:08

tyra wrote:
@Ruby wrote:
tyra wrote:As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

Amaral believes what he says; your interpretation seems to be otherwise.
After reading the case files, reading Amaral's book and watching Amaral's video, so do I.
After watching, reading and hearing the Mcs contradicting themselves the longer this goes on the further they're digging themselves in.
I would be more inclined to say they are the leeches here, throwing other peoples' money around to prevent the truth coming out.
As for their 'open wounds' they are stuck in self pity city and have been from the start.
It is Madeleine I feel sorry for, not some faux-gauche people, disingenuously claiming naivety where as far as I can see, none exists.

Perhaps he does believe what he say, just as perhaps Tony Blair believed it was right to mislead the british public, but just as there was no evidence of WMD there is no evidence of any crime committed by the McCanns and to assert that there is is morally reprehensible and libellous. No excuse for either.
I agree with you.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 20:09

tyra wrote:
badmanners wrote:I think the McCanns' reply to the claims of Amaral that he is being gagged are excellent.

He is not being gagged, he is being called to account for what he has said, and that is a different thing.
They haven't beggared him, he did that himself all on his own some time ago.

And the question of the fees is a good one - it's one that many people have been debating, and it's clear that the claims he has made about court fees are wrong.
Either that, or based on the presumption he will lose - which is telling in itself.

I have no clue why is is trying to spin that he is gagged, he must have a serious lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is if he thinks he can make up a cock and bull story about some innocent people, write a book and make a small fortune from it without being called to justify himself.
I blame his tunnel vision.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Guest on 23.12.09 23:13

tyra wrote:
badmanners wrote:I think the McCanns' reply to the claims of Amaral that he is being gagged are excellent.

He is not being gagged, he is being called to account for what he has said, and that is a different thing.
They haven't beggared him, he did that himself all on his own some time ago.

And the question of the fees is a good one - it's one that many people have been debating, and it's clear that the claims he has made about court fees are wrong.
Either that, or based on the presumption he will lose - which is telling in itself.

I have no clue why is is trying to spin that he is gagged, he must have a serious lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is if he thinks he can make up a cock and bull story about some innocent people, write a book and make a small fortune from it without being called to justify himself.

But.. but... but... he didn't write in his book the parents killed her or concealed her body. Nor did he say anything like that in his interviews.
According to his lawyer the facts were deliberately misrepresented in order to achieve the desired outcome measure.

Anyway Astro's comment is interesting, most of all what she's quoted :

“We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified.”

Food for thought?

Or what she's telling about Portuguese law :
That is precisely why the archiving dispatch does not declare them innocent of any crime. It merely states that the process is archived, and arguido status lifted, because “there are no indications of the practise of any crime”.

It is worthwhile to mention that the Public Prosecutor actually had another option.

He could have proclaimed their innocence.

Portuguese law foresees two types of archiving: a) an archiving because “enough evidence” was collected to prove that either there was no crime, or that the arguidos did not commit it under any circumstance; or b) an archiving because it was not possible to obtain “enough evidence” to prove the crime or to accuse anyone.

Spin or true?

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by Ruby on 23.12.09 23:47

tyra wrote:
@Ruby wrote:Well Clarence Mitchell would be your expert in misleading the public.
He would sell his own granny so no surprise he's moving into politics.
Mind you, Isabel Duarte's giving it a go too, with her press release saying they were cleared.
Waste of time when Portuguese people know otherwise, but a bit of window dressing for the Brits again, no doubt.

What makes you think Clarence Mitchell has ever misled the public, let alone an expert in it? he has spoken hundreds of thousands of words throughout his employment to speak on behalf of the McCanns and has been shown to be incorrect perhaps two or three times, that makes him virtually flawless, imho.

I have no idea what the portuguese people know or don't know, they were treated shambolically by their press, misled and lied to repeatedly (in much the same way as the uk press did for their readership).

Unfortunately the official investigation files are too long, detailed and not of interest to the average punter on the street and so essentially the media 'got away with it' their crime against that child and her family, the rumours remain, the lies repeated endlessly. Shameful.


*googles* Results 1 - 10 of about 29,500 for clarence mitchell lied. (0.20 seconds)

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by marigold on 24.12.09 0:05

@Ruby wrote:
tyra wrote:As if the loss of a child wasn't horrific enough, to find themselves targetted by leeches such as this man, if I believed in heaven and hell then I would know there was a special kind of hell for people who would stamp on those already suffering, for their own benefit, as it is I have to keep my faith in justice.

Amaral believes what he says; your interpretation seems to be otherwise.
After reading the case files, reading Amaral's book and watching Amaral's video, so do I.
After watching, reading and hearing the Mcs contradicting themselves the longer this goes on the further they're digging themselves in.
I would be more inclined to say they are the leeches here, throwing other peoples' money around to prevent the truth coming out.
As for their 'open wounds' they are stuck in self pity city and have been from the start.
It is Madeleine I feel sorry for, not some faux-gauche people, disingenuously claiming naivety where as far as I can see, none exists.

Totally agree, Ruby, they are the leeches. Spending money they received from the public sueing all and sundry and paying for PR, quite clear where their priorities lie. They and their pathetic followers hate Amaral because he stands up to their bullying. He was an experienced Police officer and had nothing to gain and everything to lose by sticking to his guns and telling the truth about the investigation. As for the lie that they are 'innocent', did we all miss the trial? They are opportunists of the worse type and yes they will face judgement in the next world if not in this one.

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Post by DCB1 on 24.12.09 0:20

Nothing to gain? That's a strange one.

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Post by preciousramotswe on 24.12.09 0:21

Amaral is the bully.
He's a classic case.
When he found that a woman like Kate stood up to the tactics designed to make her confess, he played even dirtier with the press than he had done before.
We are not stupid, we know where all the crap in the media came from.

And when his own bosses got sick of his manifest inability to get a handle on both the case and his own ego, they did the only thing they could - get rid of him.

Everything since has been his attempt to salvage something of his reputation, but it hasn't worked. On the contrary, he is digging himself in even deeper. Not content with having a mountain of debt since well before the time the child even went missing, he has now put himself in the position of losing everything. And for what? Supposedly, according to him, just to repeat what was in the files - which anyone could read for themselves, for free.

He claimed all along that there would never be a court case, and if there was he would be ready and waiting. Now he makes up ridiculous stories about why he won't be able to defend himself, coming up with more and more outrageous claims about how much he will have to pay in fees when anyone can see for themselves how much it will really be.

Bullies don't like being called out.

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Post by DCB1 on 24.12.09 0:22

"Therefore, after all seen, analysed and duly pondered, with all that is left exposed, it is determined:

a) The archiving of the Process concerning arguido Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code;

b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code."

Why did he conveniently omit to mention this in his book?

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Post by Ruby on 24.12.09 0:25

C'mon - Carter Ruck are the biggest bullies going and proud of it.

Innocent people don't have to pay them thousands to keep their name out of the mire.

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Post by Slartibartfast on 24.12.09 2:02

@Ruby wrote:C'mon - Carter Ruck are the biggest bullies going and proud of it.

Innocent people don't have to pay them thousands to keep their name out of the mire.

Well, they do, Ruby. Otherwise the allegations go unchallenged.
There was much made of the fact that by the McCanns not suing it was tantamount to an admission of guilt.
When they did threaten legal action they became bullies using Carter Ruck as their attack dogs.
They can't win no matter what they do.

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Post by Ruby on 24.12.09 3:00

Yeah they should both change their names to Dr Pepper.
Soooo misunderstood.
never mind

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by marigold on 26.12.09 2:52

The Mccanns are bullying everyone! You pros make me laugh, your idols are a complete disgrace. They use publicly funded money to employ PR and sue whoever they can and lie blatantly by declaring that they have been 'cleared by the courts'. Oh yeah? Excactly when?
They distribute details about Amaral's financial history but theirs remain closely guarded. They try to infer that Amaral needs money because of his debts and imply this is why he wrote the book and yet they shamelessly used the fund money to pay their mortgage; so they clearly needed money too and how they have grasped every opportunity to claw at every financial avenue they can on the back of their 'missing' daughter. They control the British press through Mitchell and contacts and despite there being no evidence whatsoever of any abduction and they were the last people to see Maddie alive, they use the press to spread lies and misrepresentation and insist everyone must follow the mantra of abduction or else. They are bullies, end of. Oh and liars too.
How you lot have the cheek to attack Amaral when all he has been trying to do is discover the truth concerning Maddie's disappearance and all they have done is obscure the truth in every which way they can, is shocking.
They dare to say Amaral had an obligation to find their daughter when they had an obligation to protect her, to keep her from harm and when they 'lost' her, they then blame Amaral!!
You yourselves have no idea whatsoever if Amaral is right or not. They have not been declared innocent, (nor guilty) by any court. They could be as guilty as hell and you can't be certain that they aren't. So save your sick hatred for when the truth does emerge. Amaral and his other witnesses may well be right in their assessment, you just don't know, it's merely blind idol worship that feeds your sickness.

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Post by Avery on 26.12.09 3:00

@marigold wrote:The Mccanns are bullying everyone! You pros make me laugh, your idols are a complete disgrace. They use publicly funded money to employ PR and sue whoever they can and lie blatantly by declaring that they have been 'cleared by the courts'. Oh yeah? Excactly when?
They distribute details about Amaral's financial history but theirs remain closely guarded. They try to infer that Amaral needs money because of his debts and imply this is why he wrote the book and yet they shamelessly used the fund money to pay their mortgage; so they clearly needed money too and how they have grasped every opportunity to claw at every financial avenue they can on the back of their 'missing' daughter. They control the British press through Mitchell and contacts and despite there being no evidence whatsoever of any abduction and they were the last people to see Maddie alive, they use the press to spread lies and misrepresentation and insist everyone must follow the mantra of abduction or else. They are bullies, end of. Oh and liars too.
How you lot have the cheek to attack Amaral when all he has been trying to do is discover the truth concerning Maddie's disappearance and all they have done is obscure the truth in every which way they can, is shocking.
They dare to say Amaral had an obligation to find their daughter when they had an obligation to protect her, to keep her from harm and when they 'lost' her, they then blame Amaral!!
You yourselves have no idea whatsoever if Amaral is right or not. They have not been declared innocent, (nor guilty) by any court. They could be as guilty as hell and you can't be certain that they aren't. So save your sick hatred for when the truth does emerge. Amaral and his other witnesses may well be right in their assessment, you just don't know, it's merely blind idol worship that feeds your sickness.

Well said.

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Re: mccanns -v- amaral - next chapter

Post by marigold on 26.12.09 3:07

Thank you Avery flower I needed that rant!

marigold

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