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Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

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More questions that Dr Pachauri needs to answer

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.12.09 10:14

More questions that Dr Pachauri needs to answer:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6890839/The-questions-Dr-Pachauri-still-has-to-answer.html

Of course, the Professor and his colleagues at the Climate Change Unit at the University of East Anglia also need to answer a whole lot of questions about why they have been, together with 'scientific' colleagues elsewhere, fiddling the climate change figures for more than a decade, and have avoided answering key Freedom of Information Act requests.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Majic on 27.12.09 11:46

Small point, but their stastistical data is incomplete and they have been found to making some of it up

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Guest on 27.12.09 12:07

@Majic wrote:Small point, but their stastistical data is incomplete and they have been found to making some of it up

Seems that is a la mode at the moment big grin

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The leaked e-mails - where to find them

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.12.09 12:16

I think all the leaked Climate Chnage Unit e-mails, or at least a good proportion of them, can be found here:

http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?page=1&pp=50

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Why Dr Phil Jones should be sacked

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.12.09 12:25

Here's one very apposite comment on the University of East Anglia e-mails scandal, bearing in mind that scientists are supposd to be concerned only with the truth:

QUOTE

“Further down the line there may be, in many countries, a question of criminal prosecution of anybody who has falsified data to secure funds.”

Never mind that (well, do mind that, but there are easier targets). There is fairly unequivocal evidence of conspiracy at UEA to violate Freedom of Information.

We have emails saying:

“I’ll delete the data before I let them get it through FOI”.

We have emails saying:

“I’ll hide behind IPR”.

We have emails saying: “Delete all emails relating to this IPCC report as we may be asked for them”.

We have emails detailing how he explained to the UEA FOI officer why they shouldn’t feel they needed to comply with the law on Freedom of Information.

And of course we have the fact that the data in question – possibly the only way of seeing what actual temperature readings were in the past before they started randomly “adjusting” and selecting from them –were subsequently “accidently” deleted.

And why? Well, he said: “Why should I release data which you’ll only use to try and prove me wrong”.

Well, guess what, that’s how it should work in science. If others can prove you wrong, then you’re wrong. If they can’t, then they’ve proved you right.

So what exactly is he so desperately scared of, scared to the point where he’ll risk jail to keep his data secret? I know what Occam’s Razor would say…

Dr Phil Jones says this has been the worst week of his professional career. It should also be the last...


UNQUOTE

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An embarrassment for global warmists

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.12.09 23:13

Contrary to all the ridiculous scare stories about rising sea levels (they're supposed to be rising at over 2 millimetres a year now), over the 1990s the sea level in these islands (i.e. Tuvalu in what was the Glbert and Ellice Islands) fell by 2.5 inches [over 60 millimetres], thus confounding the so-called climate change 'scientists' (cough) and causing islanders to moan about problems mooring their boats at low tide and scraping the boats on reefs.

But that's one story we've not heard publicised:

http://tmgnow.com/repository/global/sea_level.html

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Polar bear numbers going UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.09 10:52

Polar Bears on the Increase

Scientists Debunk Fears of Global Warming Related Polar Bear Endangerment:

Canadian biologist Dr. Mitchell Taylor, the director of wildlife research with the Arctic government of Nunavut: “Of the 13 populations of polar bears in Canada, 11 are stable or increasing in number. They are not going extinct, or even appear to be affected at present,” Taylor said. “It is just silly to predict the demise of polar bears in 25 years based on media-assisted hysteria.”

Evolutionary Biologist and Paleozoologist Dr. Susan Crockford of University of Victoria in Canada has published a number of papers in peer-reviewed academic journals. “Polar bears, for example, survived several episodes of much warmer climate over the last 10,000 years than exists today,” Crockford wrote. “There is no evidence to suggest that the polar bear or its food supply is in danger of disappearing entirely with increased Arctic warming, regardless of the dire fairy-tale scenarios predicted by computer models.”

Award-winning quaternary geologist Dr. Olafur Ingolfsson, a professor from the University of Iceland, has conducted extensive expeditions and field research in both the Arctic and Antarctic. “We have this specimen that confirms the polar bear was a morphologically distinct species at least 100,000 years ago, and this basically means that the polar bear has already survived one interglacial period,” Ingolfsson said. “This is telling us that despite the on-going warming in the Arctic today, maybe we don't have to be quite so worried about the polar bear.”

Internationally known forecasting pioneer Dr. Scott Armstrong of the Wharton School at the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania and his colleague, forecasting expert Dr. Kesten Green of Monash University in Australia, co-authored a January 27, 2008 paper with Harvard astrophysicist Dr. Willie Soon which found that polar bear extinction predictions violate “scientific forecasting procedures.” Excerpt: The study analyzed the methodology behind key polar bear population prediction and found that one of the two key reports in support of listing the bears had “extrapolated nearly 100 years into the future on the basis of only five years data - and data for these years were of doubtful validity.”

Biologist Dr. Matthew Cronin, a research professor at the School of Natural Resources and Agricultural Sciences at the University of Alaska Fairbanks: “We don’t know what the future ice conditions will be, as there is apparently considerable uncertainty in the sea ice models regarding the timing and extent of sea ice loss. Also, polar bear populations are generally healthy and have increased worldwide over the last few decades,” Cronin said.

Naturalist Nigel Marven is a trained zoologist, botanist, and a UK wildlife documentary maker who spent three months studying and filming polar bears in Canada's arctic in 2007. “I think climate change is happening, but as far as the polar bear disappearing is concerned, I have never been more convinced that this is just scaremongering. People are deliberately seeking out skinny bears and filming them to show they are dying out. That’s not right,” Marven said.

Biologist Josef Reichholf, who heads the Vertebrates Department at the National Zoological Collection in Munich: “In warmer regions it takes far less effort to ensure survival,” Reichholf said. “How did the polar bear survive the last warm period? … Look at the polar bear’s close relative, the brown bear. It is found across a broad geographic region, ranging from Europe across the Near East and North Asia, to Canada and the United States. Whether bears survive will depend on human beings, not the climate.”

Polar bear expert Dennis Compayre, formerly of the conservation group Polar Bears International, has studied the bears for almost 30 years in their natural habitat and is working on a new UK documentary about the bears. “I tell you there are as many bears here now as there were when I was a kid,” Compayre said. “Churchill [in Northern Canada] is full of these scientists going on about vanishing bears and thinner bears. They come here preaching doom, but I question whether some of them really have the bears’ best interests at heart.”

Botanist Dr. David Bellamy, a famed UK environmental campaigner, former lecturer at Durham University, and host of a popular UK TV series on wildlife: “Why scare the families of the world with tales that polar bears are heading for extinction when there is good evidence that there are now twice as many of these iconic animals, most doing well in the Arctic than there were 20 years ago?”

Scientists and Recent Studies Cast Doubt on Man-Made Melting Of Arctic:

A NASA study published in the peer-reviewed journal Geophysical Research Letters on October 4, 2007 found “unusual winds” in the Arctic blew "older thicker" ice to warmer southern waters. Despite the media's hyping of global warming, Ignatius Rigor, a co-author of the NASA study, explained, “While the total [Arctic] area of ice cover in recent winters has remained about the same, during the past two years an increased amount of older, thicker perennial sea ice was swept by winds out of the Arctic Ocean into the Greenland Sea. What grew in its place in the winters between 2005 and 2007 was a thin veneer of first-year sea ice, which simply has less mass to survive the summer melt.” […] “Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic,” said Son Nghiem of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and leader of the study.

A November 2007 peer-reviewed study in the journal Nature found natural cause for rapid Arctic warming. Excerpt: [The study] identifies a natural, cyclical flow of atmospheric energy around the Arctic Circle. A team of researchers, led by Rune Graversen of Stockholm University, conclude this energy flow may be responsible for the majority of recent Arctic warming. The study specifically rules out global warming or albedo changes from snow and ice loss as the cause, due to the “vertical structure” of the warming ... the observed warming has been much too weak near the ground, and too high in the stratosphere and upper troposphere. This study follows hot on the heels of research by NASA, which identified “unusual winds” for rapid Arctic ice retreat. The wind patterns, set up by atmospheric conditions from the Arctic Oscillation, began rapidly pushing ice into the Transpolar Drift Stream, a current which quickly sped the ice into warmer waters. A second NASA team, using data from the GRACE (Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment) satellite, recently concluded that changes in the Arctic Oscillation were, “mostly decadal in nature,” rather than driven by global warming.

A January 2008 study in the peer-reviewed journal Science found North Atlantic warming tied to natural variability. Excerpt: A Duke University-led analysis of available records shows that while the North Atlantic Ocean’s surface waters warmed in the 50 years between 1950 and 2000, the change was not uniform. In fact, the sub-polar regions cooled at the same time that subtropical and tropical waters warmed. This striking pattern can be explained largely by the influence of a natural and cyclical wind circulation pattern called the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), wrote authors of a study published Thursday, January 3 in Science Express, the online edition of the journal Science. Winds that power the NAO are driven by atmospheric pressure differences between areas around Iceland and the Azores. “The winds have a tremendous impact on the underlying ocean,” said Susan Lozier, a professor of physical oceanography at Duke’s Nicholas School of the Environment and Earth Sciences who is the study’s first author. […] “It is premature to conclusively attribute these regional patterns of heat gain to greenhouse warming,” they wrote.

A November 2007 peer-reviewed study conducted by a team of NASA and university experts found cyclical changes in ocean currents impacting the Arctic. Excerpt: “Our study confirms many changes seen in upper Arctic Ocean circulation in the 1990s were mostly decadal in nature, rather than trends caused by global warming,” said James Morison of the University of Washington's Polar Science Center Applied Physics Laboratory in Seattle, according to a November 13, 2007 NASA release. Morison led the team of scientists using data from an Earth-observing satellite and from deep-sea pressure gauges to monitor Arctic Ocean circulation from 2002 to 2006. Excerpt: A team of NASA and university scientists has detected an ongoing reversal in Arctic Ocean circulation triggered by atmospheric circulation changes that vary on decade-long time scales. The results suggest not all the large changes seen in Arctic climate in recent years are a result of long-term trends associated with global warming. […] The team of scientists found a 10-millibar decrease in water pressure at the bottom of the ocean at the North Pole between 2002 and 2006, equal to removing the weight of four inches of water from the ocean. The distribution and size of the decrease suggest that Arctic Ocean circulation changed from the counterclockwise pattern it exhibited in the 1990s to the clockwise pattern that was dominant prior to 1990. Reporting in Geophysical Research Letters, the authors attribute the reversal to a weakened Arctic Oscillation, a major atmospheric circulation pattern in the northern hemisphere. The weakening reduced the salinity of the upper ocean near the North Pole, decreasing its weight and changing its circulation. […] “While some 1990s climate trends, such as declines in Arctic sea ice extent, have continued, these results suggest at least for the 'wet' part of the Arctic – the Arctic Ocean – circulation reverted to conditions like those prevalent before the 1990s,” Morison added.

NASA Study Blames Natural High Pressure Leading to More Sunny Days for Arctic Ice Reduction Excerpt: But experts say it was the peculiar weather Mother Nature offered up last summer - whatever caused it - that is largely to blame for the recent unusual events. There was a high-pressure system that sat over the Arctic for much of the summer. It shooed away clouds, leaving the sun alone to beat down. That created higher ocean temperatures, which in turn accelerated the melt. Son Nghiem, who led that NASA study on sea ice released this week, also pointed to unusual winds, which compressed sea ice, pushing it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and into warmer water where melting happened more quickly.

A July 2007 analysis of peer-reviewed literature thoroughly debunks fears of Greenland and the Arctic melting and predictions of a frightening sea level rise. Excerpt: “Research in 2006 found that Greenland has been warming since the 1880s, but since 1955, temperature averages at Greenland stations have been colder than the period between 1881-1955. A 2006 study found Greenland has cooled since the 1930s and 1940s, with 1941 being the warmest year on record. Another 2006 study concluded Greenland was as warm or warmer in the 1930s and 40s and the rate of warming from 1920-1930 was about 50% higher than the warming from 1995-2005. One 2005 study found Greenland gaining ice in the interior higher elevations and thinning ice at the lower elevations. In addition, the often media promoted fears of Greenland’s ice completely melting and a subsequent catastrophic sea level rise are directly at odds with the latest scientific studies.” [See July 30, 2007 Report - Latest Scientific Studies Refute Fears of Greenland Melt]

In September 2007, it was announced that a soon to be released survey finds Polar Bear population rising in warmer part of the Arctic. Excerpt: Fears that two-thirds of the world’s polar bears will die off in the next 50 years are overblown, says [Arctic biologist] Mitchell Taylor, the Government of Nunavut’s director of wildlife research. “I think it’s naïve and presumptuous,” Taylor said. […] The Government of Nunavut is conducting a study of the [southern less ice region of the] Davis Strait bear population. Results of the study won’t be released until 2008, but Taylor says it appears there are some 3,000 bears in an area - a big jump from the current estimate of about 850 bears. “That’s not theory. That’s not based on a model. That’s observation of reality,” he says. And despite the fact that some of the most dramatic changes to sea ice are seen in seasonal ice areas such as Davis Strait, seven or eight of the bears measured and weighed for the study this summer are among the biggest on record, Taylor said. “Davis Strait is crawling with polar bears. It’s not safe to camp there. They’re fat. The mothers have cubs. The cubs are in good shape,” Taylor said, according to a September 14, 2007 article.

An August 2007 peer-reviewed study finds global warming over last century linked to natural causes: Published in Geophysical Research Letters: Excerpt: “Tsonis et al. investigate the collective behavior of known climate cycles such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the North Atlantic Oscillation, the El Niño/Southern Oscillation, and the North Pacific Oscillation. By studying the last 100 years of these cycles' patterns, they find that the systems synchronized several times. Further, in cases where the synchronous state was followed by an increase in the coupling strength among the cycles, the synchronous state was destroyed. Then a new climate state emerged, associated with global temperature changes and El Niño/Southern Oscillation variability. The authors show that this mechanism explains all global temperature tendency changes and El Niño variability in the 20th century.” Authors: Anastasios A. Tsonis, Kyle Swanson, and Sergey Kravtsov: Atmospheric Sciences Group, Department of Mathematical Sciences, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A. See August 2, 2007 Science Daily – “Synchronized Chaos: Mechanisms For Major Climate Shifts”

According to a 2005 peer-reviewed study in Geophysical Research Letters by astrophysicist Dr. Willie Soon, solar irradiance appears to be the key to Arctic temperatures. The study found Arctic temperatures follow the pattern of increasing or decreasing energy received from the sun. Excerpt: Solar forcing explains well over 75% of the variance for the decadally-smoothed Arctic annual-mean or spring SATs (surface air temperatures). […] In contrast, a CO2-dominated forcing of Arctic SATs is inconsistent with both the large multidecadal warming and cooling signals and the similar amplitude of warming trends between cold (winter) and relatively warmer (spring and autumn) seasons found in the Arctic-wide SAT records.

Meteorologist Craig James Debunks Myths about Northwest Passage Excerpt: The headline in this press release from the European Space Agency reads “Satellites witness lowest Arctic ice coverage in History.” (LINK) In history! That sounds like a long time. However, when you read the article you find “history” only goes back to 28 years, to 1979. That is when satellites began monitoring Arctic Sea ice. The article also says “the Northwest Passage - a long-sought short cut between Europe and Asia that has been historically impassable.” I guess these people flunked history class. It has been open several times in history without ice breakers. The first known successful navigation by ship was in 1905. This is all very similar to the story on the NBC Nightly News Friday, 14 September 2007 where the story on water levels in Lake Superior never mentioned that the lowest recorded water level on the lake occurred in March and April 1926, when the lake was about 5 inches lower than it is now. Instead, NBC interviewed several people who could never remember seeing it this low and blamed most of the problem on global warming. Never mind that the area has seen below normal precipitation for several years and for most of this year has been classified as being in an extreme to exceptional drought.

History of Northwest Passage - Navigated in 1905 and multiple times in 1940s (Note: 80% of man-made CO2 came after 1940) Excerpt: 2. ROALD AMUNDSEN: First Navigation by Ship 1905: In mid August, Amundsen sailed from Gjøahaven (today: Gjoa Haven, Nunavut) in the vessel Gjøa (LINK) […] On August 26 they encountered a ship bearing down on them from the west, and with that they were through the passage. From Amundsen's diary: The North West Passage was done. My boyhood dream - at that moment it was accomplished. A strange feeling welled up in my throat; I was somewhat over-strained and worn - it was weakness in me - but I felt tears in my eyes. ‘Vessel in sight’ ... Vessel in sight. 3. ST. ROCH: First West-East Crossing 1940-1942: The St. Roch was given the task of demonstrating Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic. It was ordered to sail from Vancouver to Halifax by way of the Northwest Passage. The St. Roch left Vancouver in June 1940 and on October 11, 1942, it docked at Halifax - the first ship to travel from the Pacific to the Atlantic via the Northwest Passage. The journey had taken almost 28 months. 4. ST. ROCH: Northern Deep-Water Route (East-West) 1944: The St. Roch was the first ship to travel the Northwest Passage through the northern, deep-water route and the first to sail the Passage in both directions.

In a 2005 study published in the Journal of Climate, Brian Hartmann and Gerd Wendler linked the 1976 Pacific climate shift to a very significant one-time shift upward in Alaskan temperatures.

According to a 2003 study by Arctic scientist Igor Polyakov, the warmest period in the Arctic during the 20th Century was the late 1930s through early 1940s. Excerpt: Our results suggest that the decadal AO (Arctic Oscillation) and multidecadal LFO (low-frequency oscillation) drive large amplitude natural variability in the Arctic making detection of possible long-term trends induced by greenhouse gas warming most difficult.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 30.12.09 10:58

“We have this specimen that confirms the polar bear was a morphologically distinct species at least 100,000 years ago, and this basically means that the polar bear has already survived one interglacial period,”

Surely you don't believe this nonsense Mr Bennett?! Both you and I know that God created the polar bears a mere 8000 or so years ago....

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A short history of the polar bear

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.09 11:06

@Old Nick wrote:“We have this specimen that confirms the polar bear was a morphologically distinct species at least 100,000 years ago, and this basically means that the polar bear has already survived one interglacial period,”

Surely you don't believe this nonsense Mr Bennett?! Both you and I know that God created the polar bears a mere 8000 or so years ago....
More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

There's no evidence for any antecedents to the polar bear, just as neither you nor anyone else can give me the family tree of homo sapiens back to amoeba and that first 'simple cell' [1] that somehow sparked into life a billion or so years ago (cough).

However, I am not sure that the genetic evidence suggests that God created the polar bear.

In truth, He created the bear. From the original created bears have descended all the different kinds of bears, polar bears, brown bears etc. The white fur of the polar bear is simply the result of the process of natural selection operating on the descendants of the orginal created bears.

Further evidence here:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/sea-bear

[1] The 'simple cell' explained:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/196.asp

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 30.12.09 11:19

6000 years ago was it? I lose track of time. It all seems like only yesterday to me. But the fact is Mr B you are citing evidence that directly contradicts your own views, I'm just surprised that's all. Don't you have any more meaningful data from scientists that doesn't harp on about life on Earth as it was a hundred thousand (cough) years ago?

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by exempt on 30.12.09 14:40

@Tony Bennett wrote:More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

You obviously don't believe in radioactive dating. Fortunately, intelligent people do. :D

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Radiometric dating is unscientific

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.09 15:50

@exempt wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

You obviously don't believe in radioactive dating. Fortunately, intelligent people do.
You need to be more specific.

Radiocarbon dating, i.e. from pieces of decayed vegetable matter, is reasonably accurate back to around 4,000 years before present. After that, the amount of parent radioactive element left is little more than a trace and not enough for anyone to be accurate about its age.

All other forms of 'radioactive' dating are called radiometric dating, e.g argon, rubidium etc. etc. and are notoriously unreliable for all sorts of valid scientific reasons, including:

1) being based on up to 14 completely unverifiable assumptions about the past
2) gross inconsistencies in results e.g. rocks well below other rocks being given younger i.e. more recent ages and
3) clearly ridiculous results e.g. rocks known to have been formed in the last 200 years in volcanic explosions being given ages of tens of millions of years old.

It requires both intelligence and a willingness to think outside a preconditioned evolutionary mindset to evaluate this bogus 'science' of radiometric dating.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 30.12.09 15:54

@exempt wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

You obviously don't believe in radioactive dating. Fortunately, intelligent people do. :D

Forget that science rubbish - all you need to know is in the first chapter of Genesis. Some of it's a bit sketchy but most of it is the Truth.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.09 16:03

@Old Nick wrote:
@exempt wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

You obviously don't believe in radioactive dating. Fortunately, intelligent people do.

Forget that science rubbish - all you need to know is in the first chapter of Genesis. Some of it's a bit sketchy but most of it is the Truth.
Wasn't it 'science' that for 50 years told us that Piltdown Man was half-man, half-ape - until it became clear that this was a clever forgery by those who wanted the masses to believe in evolution.

And wasn't it 'scientist' Ernst Haeckel [1] who produced his false drawings of animal embryos, to produce his so-called theory of embryonic recapitualtion, again intended to hoodwink the masses into believing the theory of evolution.

'Social scientists' like Alfred Kinsey, Margaret Mead and Cyril Burt [2] deliberately falsified their research in order to propagate their theories.

I'd recommend you take 'science' with more than a pinch of salt - or at least learn to distinguish between true science and bogus science.

Evolution isn't science, it's contrary to science. It's a strongly-held belief system with a mass of evidence demonstrating it to be untrue. Which is why nearly half of Americans and Brits now reject it as a throry of origins.

[1] http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/03/14/fishy-gill-slits
[2] http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr196/parrington.htm

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 30.12.09 16:17

Yeah! Science Schmience. Load of rubbish. Genesis is where it's at. Which is why I'm still a little perplexed that you posted that silly article about the polar bears above with its talk of a hundred thousand years ago...

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.09 16:28

@Old Nick wrote:Yeah! Science Schmience. Load of rubbish. Genesis is where it's at. Which is why I'm still a little perplexed that you posted that silly article about the polar bears above with its talk of a hundred thousand years ago...
Ah! Making fun of Genesis, a common sport.

Yet not one of its hundreds of facts has ever been disproved.

I came across this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3913145.stm

Which is right?

What Stephen Hawking once believed about black holes?

What he now believes?

Or neither?

Perhaps he and others are also wrong about the 'Big Bang'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUzvJq3yK98

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 30.12.09 16:37

Who is making fun of Genesis? Not me - it's a fabulous historical record. Now, back to that polar bear article...

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Slartibartfast on 31.12.09 2:21

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Old Nick wrote:Yeah! Science Schmience. Load of rubbish. Genesis is where it's at. Which is why I'm still a little perplexed that you posted that silly article about the polar bears above with its talk of a hundred thousand years ago...
Ah! Making fun of Genesis, a common sport.

Yet not one of its hundreds of facts has ever been disproved.

I came across this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3913145.stm

Which is right?

What Stephen Hawking once believed about black holes?

What he now believes?

Or neither?

Perhaps he and others are also wrong about the 'Big Bang'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUzvJq3yK98


Do you really believe in morally dubious talking snakes?
Real ones and not metaphorical ones?

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A real serpent (but not snake)

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.12.09 10:15

@Slartibartfast wrote:Do you really believe in morally dubious talking snakes? Real ones and not metaphorical ones?
We must recall that God spoke through a donkey to the false prophet Balaam (Numbers 2 vv 15 to 35). In order to teach Balaam a lesson.

When the demons were cast out of the Gadarene man (who was living naked and wild amidst the graves in the area) by Christ (Luke 8 vv 29 & 30), they begged Him to be allowed to inhabit the swine thereabouts (Luke 8 v 31). Christ granted their wish, and the swine then rushed into the Sea of Galilee (Luke 8 v 33). This story had a happy ending with the man ‘sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed in his right mind’ (Luke 8 v 35). Not surprisingly, many of the folk of that area became believers from that day on: ‘the people gladly received him’ (Luke 8 v 40).

So, yes, the devil spoke through the serpent to Eve. Note that the word used is ‘serpent’, not snake; in the Hebrew this has a different meaning to snake. It was a serpent, not a snake, through whom the devil spoke. Further, throughout the Bible, the devil is often referred to as ‘that old serpent’.

When considering these Old Testament stories which seem fabulous and unbelievable to modern eyes, we need to recall the words of Christ himself about the Old Testament. He said, for example: ‘Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets: I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until all be fulfilled’ (Matthew 5 vv 17 & 18, Sermon on the Mount), or ‘…all this has taken place that Scriptures of the prophets may be fulfilled (Matthew 26 v 56).

Then again Paul wrote his second letter to the believers at Corinth, warning them against false teachers: ‘But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty [subtlety], so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity which is in Christ’ (2 Corinthians 11 v 3). That great evangelist Paul also believed the account of the serpent and Eve.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 31.12.09 12:05

@Slartibartfast wrote:


Do you really believe in morally dubious talking snakes?
Real ones and not metaphorical ones?

Hey! Less of the 'morally dubious' if you don't mind!! Sidney was a very obliging and obedient serpent, a true friend and a great conversationalist.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by exempt on 31.12.09 12:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@exempt wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:More like 6,000 years ago, on Day 5 of the Creation Week.

You obviously don't believe in radioactive dating. Fortunately, intelligent people do.
You need to be more specific.

Radiocarbon dating, i.e. from pieces of decayed vegetable matter, is reasonably accurate back to around 4,000 years before present. After that, the amount of parent radioactive element left is little more than a trace and not enough for anyone to be accurate about its age.

All other forms of 'radioactive' dating are called radiometric dating, e.g argon, rubidium etc. etc. and are notoriously unreliable for all sorts of valid scientific reasons, including:

1) being based on up to 14 completely unverifiable assumptions about the past
2) gross inconsistencies in results e.g. rocks well below other rocks being given younger i.e. more recent ages and
3) clearly ridiculous results e.g. rocks known to have been formed in the last 200 years in volcanic explosions being given ages of tens of millions of years old.

It requires both intelligence and a willingness to think outside a preconditioned evolutionary mindset to evaluate this bogus 'science' of radiometric dating.

Well, there isn't a single scientific body in the world that disagrees that the age of the Earth is around 4.5 billion years.

If you think differently, you are somewhat out of step with established science.

I mean 1,000,000 for a billion there, not the old British billion. :D

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Old Nick on 31.12.09 12:30

Yes, but they've all been brainwashed by the Freemasons and the United Nations. I think.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.12.09 12:58

@exempt wrote:Well, there isn't a single scientific body in the world that disagrees that the age of the Earth is around 4.5 billion years. If you think differently, you are somewhat out of step with established science.
No, because secular scientific bodies like the Royal College of Science won't allow any non-evolutionist to be published.

But, fortunately, a great many people, not just myself, can see through the lies and bogus science peddled by evolutionists:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

It doesn't take a genius, either, to look at any creature or plant, wonder at the fantastic arrangement of DNA that has produced that creature/plant, all confined to one cell, and see the hand of our Creator and Master Designer/Engineer at work.

Charles Darwin did get one thing right in his 'Origin of Species':

QUOTE FROM CHARLES DARWIN'S ORIGIN OF SPECIES

'To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.'

UNQUOTE

Even Richard Dawkins can't explain how the eye, never mind anything else. Nothing has ever been seen to change into something else.

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Re: Climate change guru Pachauri makes a fortune from carbon-trading business deals

Post by vaguely on 31.12.09 14:23

ORGANS OF EXTREME PERFECTION AND COMPLICATION.
To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.
When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false; but the old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science. Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certainly the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself originated; but I may remark that, as some of the lowest organisms in which nerves cannot be detected, are capable of perceiving light, it does not seem impossible that certain sensitive elements in their sarcode should become aggregated and developed into nerves, endowed with this special sensibility.


There you go Mr Bennett, you appear to have hit 'unquote' a little too early.

____________________
and on day six God created the non-carbon triple duplicate complaint form.

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