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Some basic questions from a newbie

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by ufercoffy on 25.03.11 17:29

big grin You crack me up PeterMac but it's not a 'very honest' book - nope indeedy, it's 'an account of the truth'. winkwink

Just how many accounts are there?

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Vanya on 25.03.11 18:11

@PeterMac wrote:Then perhaps they will be able to start a proper investigation, which they have failed to do so far, partly, or indeed mostly, because Kate and the rest refused point blank to tell them truthfully what happened.
big grin
We can't wait !

Is it normal that an investigation is put on hold until the suspect chooses to tell the truth? Is it normal that the police have to wait four years until a book is written for an investigation to reach a conclusion?

If the suspects don't tell the truth then the investigation is normally shelved? Does that mean the investigators are useless because they can't investigate?

If that is the case then why don't all suspects withhold the truth for four years until they can make money with a book and close down the investigation in the meantime?

I don't think so. Therefore the investigation failed didn't it?




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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by PeterMac on 25.03.11 19:13

Some suspects do withhold information for many years. In most modern civilised legal systems they are allowed and indeed entitled to do so. 5th Amendment, Judges Rules, Right to Silence, and so on.
That was one of the reasons put forward to explain Kate's refusing to answer the 40 questions. She was legally entitled not to answer. Whether her refusal helped or hindered any search for her missing daughter is a matter of conjecture.
Investigators then have to look through all the rest of the evidence to see if it is sufficient for a prosecution, and the test is usually whether that prosecution is going to be sucessful. The police, and/or in the UK the Crown Prosecution Service, may decide there is still insufficient evidence to go a head. The case then lies dormant,but can be revived at any point if fresh evidence comes to light. Sometimes this is as a result of of the suspect saying or doing something, talking to a person in the pub, re-visiting the scene, revealing a bit of information which only s/he and the police knew.
Yes, in one sense you are right, the investigation has been a failure, up to this point, in that no person has been brought to book for a crime. The big difficulty is that the McCanns insist that the crime in question was one of abduction by person or persons unknown and the PJ (and many others) do not find compelling evidence of that, and are therefore looking elsewhere.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by ufercoffy on 25.03.11 19:32

@PeterMac wrote:That was one of the reasons put forward to explain Kate's refusing to answer the 40 questions. She was legally entitled not to answer.

What mother would do that when she and her husband insisted from Day One that Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile ring?

Her refusal to answer speaks volumes does it not?




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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Guest on 25.03.11 19:51

@ufercoffy wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:That was one of the reasons put forward to explain Kate's refusing to answer the 40 questions. She was legally entitled not to answer.

What mother would do that when she and her husband insisted from Day One that Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile ring?

Her refusal to answer speaks volumes does it not?





That together with not doing the reconstruction. How anyone would turn this down is beyond me, to help find a missing child. It is not unreasonable for the PJ tpo have asked for this. Their statements are so full of differing versions and 'erms and ums it is impossible to nail a proper timeline. Now if they had all gone back and gone through the events of that night, as they happened, who went where, which way, etc., it would have probably been possible for the PJ to establish much more about this so called "window of opportunity". The case is only shelved pending any new evidence or the friends doing the reconstruction.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by dragonfly on 25.03.11 20:52

Thankyou for you replies,
Peter I was under the impression that Kate has stated that she knew Maddie was taken due to the toy cat being put on a shelf higher than Maddie could reach, That was her reasoning for her being abducted,(and the window) So I dont feel any further light will be added on this?
The reason I ask about the doors, Please correct me if I am wrong, I have read that the 'kidnapper' was believed to have been watching the property for several days,
The main point of entries and exits being 1,the sliding doors at the back , 2, the front door, 3, the childrens bedroom window, forensics showed that none of these had been forced or damaged, It has been accepted that the sliding doors were not secured (locked) so keeping all options open or eliminating them,
1,The sliding doors could of been entry and exit for kidnapper,
2, Childrens Window found open, Forensics showed that entry did not happen and exit was not possible' without' leaving marks on the bed, despite being the most awkward choice to leave carrying a child,
3,If the front door was locked with a key, the kidnapper would of had to exit through the sliding doors at the back, which then would bring him at the back/side of the building and their for he would not be in front of tanner , but more near gerry and jez?
The front door, no sign of break in, but possible exit, If the Mccanns were locking the front door with their key, would it be possible to open this door from the inside without a key? from my understanding if you lock a door to secure it with a key, you then need a key also to unlock it from the inside to get out ? (unless the door was just pulled clicked shut, then you could exit it with ease) This then leaves with both doors not being secured (locked with a key ) securely, - Which then does not sit well of Kates statement of 'How dare they insinuate that OUR DAUGHTER’S LIFE could be put in DANGER BECAUSE OF US Very angry' (being that BOTH doors were not locked and not properly secured) Im very confused .......







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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Autumn on 25.03.11 23:07



Please correct me if I am wrong, I have read that the 'kidnapper' was believed to have been watching the property for several days,


Believed by whom, dragonfly? I think you may be thinking of the McCanns' 'reconstruction' directed by and starring Gerry McCann. where they say that they believe that someone was watching their apartment for several days. If they believed this, then all the more shocking that they left their young children alone while they wined and dined with their chums.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by PeterMac on 26.03.11 21:13

"Thank you for you replies,
Peter I was under the impression that Kate has stated that she knew Maddie was taken due to the toy cat being put on a shelf higher than Maddie could reach, That was her reasoning for her being abducted,(and the window) So I dont feel any further light will be added on this?"

Aprt from the fairly obvious fact that
1 there was no "high shelf". - see all the photos of the rooms for proof
2 Cuddle cat was neatly on the pillow when the police arrived, or had been re-placed - again see photos of the 'scene'
3 The window had not been opened nor the shutters forced, jemmied, damaged, or possibly even opened.
I do recommend that you spend some time trawling through the archives on this baffling and complex case.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by aiyoyo on 28.03.11 3:15

@dragonfly wrote:Thankyou for you replies,
Peter I was under the impression that Kate has stated that she knew Maddie was taken due to the toy cat being put on a shelf higher than Maddie could reach, That was her reasoning for her being abducted,(and the window) So I dont feel any further light will be added on this?
The reason I ask about the doors, Please correct me if I am wrong, I have read that the 'kidnapper' was believed to have been watching the property for several days,
The main point of entries and exits being 1,the sliding doors at the back , 2, the front door, 3, the childrens bedroom window, forensics showed that none of these had been forced or damaged, It has been accepted that the sliding doors were not secured (locked) so keeping all options open or eliminating them,
1,The sliding doors could of been entry and exit for kidnapper,
2, Childrens Window found open, Forensics showed that entry did not happen and exit was not possible' without' leaving marks on the bed, despite being the most awkward choice to leave carrying a child,
3,If the front door was locked with a key, the kidnapper would of had to exit through the sliding doors at the back, which then would bring him at the back/side of the building and their for he would not be in front of tanner , but more near gerry and jez?
The front door, no sign of break in, but possible exit, If the Mccanns were locking the front door with their key, would it be possible to open this door from the inside without a key? from my understanding if you lock a door to secure it with a key, you then need a key also to unlock it from the inside to get out ? (unless the door was just pulled clicked shut, then you could exit it with ease) This then leaves with both doors not being secured (locked with a key ) securely, - Which then does not sit well of Kates statement of 'How dare they insinuate that OUR DAUGHTER’S LIFE could be put in DANGER BECAUSE OF US Very angry' (being that BOTH doors were not locked and not properly secured) Im very confused .......


dragonfly,

This is good read written by Barbara Nottage questioning the time line and impossibility of the abduction.

http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by The Shelfstacker on 28.03.11 16:28

Just a thought. Completely out of leftfield and totally unconnected to the foregoing except that I couldn't find anywhere else to ask this. What happened to Lucian Deville, lately of the old Mirror Forums? I see there is a person of the same name on the Sky discussion boards but who is not nearly as, shall we say, emphatic, as the former.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Wendy on 28.03.11 16:30

Didn't Lucienne Deville fake her own death?

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Tapas 7

Post by iwonder on 07.08.11 11:28

Where are they now? Why have none of them broken rank? Why is it in their interest to continue the charade?

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 11:48

@iwonder wrote:Where are they now? Why have none of them broken rank? Why is it in their interest to continue the charade?

Hi iwonder and welcome welcome

Good question, you would have thought they would have said something. Perhaps given interviews to the media as to what happened that night and their take on it. It would certainly sell some papers. After all, it could only mean more publicity for Madeleine couldn't it? Isn't that what they want?

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tapas 7

Post by iwonder on 07.08.11 12:24

I've read their line about Portuguese Law and they not allowed blah, I've read the conflicting interview notes, what I don't get is why, if they are involved in a cover-up, none of the 7's conscience has made them tell the real truth of the events of that night.... I and many I've spoken to believe they couldn't live with the guilt....

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 12:26

@iwonder wrote:I've read their line about Portuguese Law and they not allowed blah, I've read the conflicting interview notes, what I don't get is why, if they are involved in a cover-up, none of the 7's conscience has made them tell the real truth of the events of that night.... I and many I've spoken to believe they couldn't live with the guilt....

The case is shelved, so I don't think that applies anymore.

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tapas 7

Post by iwonder on 07.08.11 12:32

Ok, they would lose licence to practice medicine, I get that. I also get that the libel compensation payments may keep them quiet, but they are parents themselves, surely one of the is humane enough to feel guilt?

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 12:35

@iwonder wrote:Ok, they would lose licence to practice medicine, I get that. I also get that the libel compensation payments may keep them quiet, but they are parents themselves, surely one of the is humane enough to feel guilt?

According to press reports the libel compensation they received went to the Find Madeleine Fund.

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What happened to that newbie?

Post by Marian on 07.08.11 13:31

I find it interesting when an old topic comes to light again to see whether the people who contributed in the past are still around now. I wonder what happened to Fee45 who started off the debate but hasn't been heard of since 5th March. If you're out there, please reassure us that you weren't hurt when you fell from the fence!

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Guest on 07.08.11 15:38

@Marian wrote:I find it interesting when an old topic comes to light again to see whether the people who contributed in the past are still around now. I wonder what happened to Fee45 who started off the debate but hasn't been heard of since 5th March. If you're out there, please reassure us that you weren't hurt when you fell from the fence!

We had an influx of newbies when Jo Yeates was in the news as they wanted somewhere to discuss the case...then they all left en masse when Jo was no longer in the news!

Used and abused, we were. lol!

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by lj on 07.08.11 16:19

If I may ask, does anyone know what happened to Me?

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Absent friends

Post by Marian on 07.08.11 17:40

Perhaps we can set up a separate "Where are they now" topic for posters who have disappeared! I too had noticed that ME had gone - apart from a brief return on 27th July - and another I've missed is Little Miss Molly; she taught us more than we ever wanted to know about dead bodies! She's been gone for a couple of months and her name doesn't even appear on the members list now.



that they will return.

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Re: Some basic questions from a newbie

Post by Angelique on 08.08.11 22:58

lj

There is a "Me" on the MM Forum but not sure if it's the same person.

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