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Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

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Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Ruby on 17.12.09 17:35

... will be a witness for Goncalo Amaral in Lisbon in January 2010.

Not a lot of info around about this (that I can find, anyway).

Anyone know anything?

thinking

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 17:39

was he involved in investigating the case at all?

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Ruby on 17.12.09 17:44

Yes but details seem few and far between...

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 17:49

He collected Madeleine's DNA sample from the McCanns house

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Ruby on 17.12.09 18:04

Thanks muratfan. I wonder what his contribution will be?

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 18:12

Not a lot.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 18:22

I'm absolutedly fascinated to know what his witnesses will attest to, we have all seen the files and the various reports and we know that Amaral appears to have made up his theory to fit the speculation contained within the interim report, essentially, to use a sporting analogy, he took a look at the game just before the half time break and decided to run with that, completely ignoring the vital second half of the game.

So are his witnesses all going to state that yes at one point it was felt vital to try and rule out the parents and then they errr.... did.

At one time it was speculated there might be evidence that Madeleine came to harm inside the apartment but once the material was collected and analysed it seemed there was nothing to support it.

At one time it was felt that Robert Murat might be being less than honest about his whereabouts that night but after examination there seemed to be no link between him and the family or Madeleine.

Ho hum.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by DCB1 on 17.12.09 18:27

tyra wrote: we know that Amaral appears to have made up his theory to fit the speculation contained within the interim report,
Ho hum.

Step back a minute. the report may have been signed by somebody else, but who compiled the report? Who was the co-ordinator when the report was submitted? Who provided the speculation in the interim report?

So did his theory fit the report, or was the report a result of his theory? (then taken off the job)

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Honoria on 17.12.09 18:57

Could this possibly refer to the so called medical sleep chart that Amaral referred to in his book? thinking

And should the court date not be Jan 2010 ? flower

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Ruby on 17.12.09 19:42

oops 2010 indeed - edited. flower

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 19:43

It looks like Freitas was a liaison officer, who's left as soon as the McCanns left Portgugal. Amaral wrote he's been passing on any relevant reports. He's passed on Madeleine's DNA profile to the PJ (in October).

According to Amaral's book the "fall from the sofa and died" is Guilhermino Encarnação's theory.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by preciousramotswe on 17.12.09 22:25

These witnesses that are named, are they people who have said 'yes we will testify for you old chum' or are they people that have been dragged into this against their will - named as those who he thinks will back up his claim that the contents of the book are all in the files, and that everyone shared his opinion?

No-one seems to know this, and it's pretty crucial.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by DCB1 on 17.12.09 23:07

it doesn't matter what any of his witnesses say. The investigation moved on and the decision was to clear them. They could stand up in court and shout till the cows come home "oh yes the mccanns did it". When the defence lawyer stands up and asks them to prove it - well what do they say?

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 23:37

Err isn't Amaral's lawyer the defence lawyer?
The McCann's lawyer asked for the injunction.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by DCB1 on 17.12.09 23:40

Molly wrote:Err isn't Amaral's lawyer the defence lawyer?
The McCann's lawyer asked for the injunction.

Oh - OK but you get my drift!

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by MaryB on 17.12.09 23:47

@DCB1 wrote:it doesn't matter what any of his witnesses say. The investigation moved on and the decision was to clear them. They could stand up in court and shout till the cows come home "oh yes the mccanns did it". When the defence lawyer stands up and asks them to prove it - well what do they say?

The decision was not to go ahead with a prosecution as there was insufficient evidence. Nobody was cleared. I read the nearest UK equivalent was released without charge. Which is not quite the same thing as declared not guilty by a court. Perhaps this might be clarified by the January hearing.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 17.12.09 23:52

@ DCB1 : Yes.

Unless they produce evidence to substantiate Amaral's claims. Which they can't, according to the GA.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by DCB1 on 17.12.09 23:52

@MaryB wrote:
@DCB1 wrote:it doesn't matter what any of his witnesses say. The investigation moved on and the decision was to clear them. They could stand up in court and shout till the cows come home "oh yes the mccanns did it". When the defence lawyer stands up and asks them to prove it - well what do they say?

The decision was not to go ahead with a prosecution as there was insufficient evidence. Nobody was cleared. I read the nearest UK equivalent was released without charge. Which is not quite the same thing as declared not guilty by a court. Perhaps this might be clarified by the January hearing.

Thankyou for repeating that.

TB - you will have to go to court and be found not guilty to clear your name.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Slartibartfast on 17.12.09 23:58

@MaryB wrote:
@DCB1 wrote:it doesn't matter what any of his witnesses say. The investigation moved on and the decision was to clear them. They could stand up in court and shout till the cows come home "oh yes the mccanns did it". When the defence lawyer stands up and asks them to prove it - well what do they say?

The decision was not to go ahead with a prosecution as there was insufficient evidence. Nobody was cleared. I read the nearest UK equivalent was released without charge. Which is not quite the same thing as declared not guilty by a court. Perhaps this might be clarified by the January hearing.

It has already been decided.
People are not declared cleared by courts. It is assumed that they have done nothing wrong until proved otherwise.
The McCanns were not even charged due to the fact of there being NO evidence as opposed to insufficient.
The trial in January has nothing to do with their legal status. They are innocent in the eyes of the law.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by MaryB on 18.12.09 0:05

But didn't the files say there was no evidence of a crime being committed. And yet a child has disappeared so obviously a crime has been committed. So no evidence doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing. It just means there is no evidence of wrongdoing. The evidence could have been cleared up, disguised or hidden. By somebody.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by DCB1 on 18.12.09 0:23

@MaryB wrote:But didn't the files say there was no evidence of a crime being committed. And yet a child has disappeared so obviously a crime has been committed. So no evidence doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing. It just means there is no evidence of wrongdoing. The evidence could have been cleared up, disguised or hidden. By somebody.

?

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by marigold on 19.12.09 2:56

Anyone is 'innocent' until their trial. Rose West then was 'innocent' up until a court of law found her guilty, by your reckoning. If someone escapes from justice by some means after they have committed a crime and before a trial they may be deemed innocent in the eyes of the law at that point but they are guilty of the crime nonetheless.
There was nothing to clear the Mccanns. There was no evidence of an abductor whatsoever and they were the last people to see her alive. They were made arguidos for a reason. If they escape justice because they evade a court of law, this doesn't prove their innocence, rather it points to clever lawyers and an abundance of cash.

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by vaguely on 19.12.09 7:25

@marigold wrote:Anyone is 'innocent' until their trial. Rose West then was 'innocent' up until a court of law found her guilty, by your reckoning. If someone escapes from justice by some means after they have committed a crime and before a trial they may be deemed innocent in the eyes of the law at that point but they are guilty of the crime nonetheless.
There was nothing to clear the Mccanns. There was no evidence of an abductor whatsoever and they were the last people to see her alive. They were made arguidos for a reason. If they escape justice because they evade a court of law, this doesn't prove their innocence, rather it points to clever lawyers and an abundance of cash.

or an abductor

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by Guest on 19.12.09 8:09

Were they made arguido's for a reason, I mean there is a list in the files to explain why Robert Murat was made an arguido but not one for the Mccanns, perhaps the PJ just realised a bit late that it might be a good idea to rule out the closest people to Madeleine, her family. It was documented that the Mccanns were planning to leave Portugal after 4 months, perhaps they thought they should try and do that before they came home to the uk?

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Re: Jose de Freitas, senior officer at New Scotland Yard

Post by sans_souci on 21.12.09 11:00

@marigold wrote:Anyone is 'innocent' until their trial. Rose West then was 'innocent' up until a court of law found her guilty, by your reckoning. If someone escapes from justice by some means after they have committed a crime and before a trial they may be deemed innocent in the eyes of the law at that point but they are guilty of the crime nonetheless.
There was nothing to clear the Mccanns. There was no evidence of an abductor whatsoever and they were the last people to see her alive. They were made arguidos for a reason. If they escape justice because they evade a court of law, this doesn't prove their innocence, rather it points to clever lawyers and an abundance of cash.

That really is a bit desperate. Innocent until proven guilty is a good principle for a good reason. It demands that before declaring an individual guilty of any crime it must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. In Rose Wests case she was regarded as innocent until the prosecution proved her guilty on the evidence provided, and she was duly sentenced.

You appear to be suggesting that in the McCanns case they must provide some sort of proof that there was an abductor. In other words to be regarded as guilty until they can demonstrate that they are innocent. Thank heavens a civilised society does not operate that way.

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