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Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

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Well done Madeline Foundation

Post by MrScience on 22.11.10 23:45

Indeed, I've always had my doubts about the behaviour of the McCanns. However the documentary tonight caught my attention and I have just been reading through the information on the Madeline Foundation website. Some truly shocking stuff on there from official police files that I'd never heard anything about before. Has certainly opened my eyes, but strange that the press have been keeping quiet about some of this.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Guest on 23.11.10 0:05

and welcome MrScience

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by littlepixie on 23.11.10 0:08

Welcome MrScience - it is truly outrageous that the press has still not reported the overturning of the book ban and the reasons why in its entirety.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by MrScience on 23.11.10 0:22

hi Many thanks for the warm welcome!

Yes I noticed in the documentary they didn't inform people that the book ban had been overturned. Very naughty of the BBC to have missed this out as it puts a completely different perspective on everything. Didn't I read somewhere that the BBC journalist agreed to this in writing? Surely if its in writing the BBC has a case to answer about this.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by The Shelfstacker on 23.11.10 1:06

I'll tell you what I think. I've just watched the video (and btw thank you ufercoffy for putting it up). It came across as unsympathetic to the Madeleine Foundation. It may have flagged up to people previously unaware of the organisation that it exists but the byline was glaringly obvious that people should beware, these guys are a bunch of nutters.

There was nothing that I could identify in the film that could be said to be to the Foundation's credit but very much acting to its discredit. Just off the top of my head, the mention (perfectly understandably IMO) of Tony Bennett's past campaigns against Michael Barrymore and road sign metrification, Debbie Butler's "Tony Told Me To Do It" denunciation of the leafletting of Rothley which apparently was so controversial at the time that Helene Green-Davies buckled at the knees, the clip of Grenville Green "roping in" (for that is how it will be seen) his Down Syndrome son on a cold wet day in Lisbon to show solidarity with Goncalo Amaral whose theories according to the film have since been "discredited", and Tony Bennett agreeing not to distribute further leaflets and then going back on his word. And if that were not enough to be going on with, coming perilously close to re-transmitting the clip of Goncalo Amaral saying (as I understand it though there have been various interpretations) "Fala con McCanns" (Talk to the McCanns) and leaving it to the viewer to remind themselves that BBC East Midlands, the very same people who produced this piece, reported his comment as "F**k the McCanns. You will remember that to this day, and despite being put right they have left the record uncorrected.

Just my opinion and I stand to be contradicted if I must be but on the whole I felt the film was unedifying.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Cheshire Cat on 23.11.10 1:17

@Cheshire Cat wrote:Just watched it and I enjoyed it!

It was an interesting production and thought provoking. Simon Hare, in my view, has produced a pretty fair mini-documentary, working as he must within the media straight jacket.

Well done to all involved.


And the MF book got a plug with the cover shown!


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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by kangdang on 23.11.10 1:17

Mr. Hare has disappointed me, he exploited his position to promote his own personal beliefs - that the McCanns are innocent and that they are the victims of an unjust campaign. He failed to do as he promised, what his profession demands - present a fair and balanced argument. Mr. Hare is well aware that there are a great number of people who do not believe the McCanns account, he is also aware of the utter disgust people feel with regards to the McCanns behaviour, both prior and post Madeleine's disappearance. He purposely hand picked extracts to support his contention, he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself, his actions place his professionalism in disrepute.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Cheshire Cat on 23.11.10 1:25

@kangdang wrote: Mr. Hare has disappointed me, he exploited his position to promote his own personal beliefs - that the McCanns are innocent and that they are the victims of an unjust campaign. He failed to do as he promised, what his profession demands - present a fair and balanced argument. Mr. Hare is well aware that there are a great number of people who do not believe the McCanns account, he is also aware of the utter disgust people feel with regards to the McCanns behaviour, both prior and post Madeleine's disappearance. He purposely hand picked extracts to support his contention, he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself, his actions place his professionalism in disrepute.

I didn't feel like that about the program, I wrote my comments right after watching the program, an instant reaction.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by soulthief on 23.11.10 1:30

kangdang, what do you think the motives were?

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Cheshire Cat on 23.11.10 1:54

I have read the transcript of the programme and there is balance in the sense that MF members are allowed to comment and make points.

However, this sentence is one to be challenged:

"Simon Hare: It delivered a 150 leaflets to the homes in the McCanns own neighbourhood, repeating the now discredited Amaral theory that Madeleine had died in her parents holiday apartment and they’d covered it up."

On the contrary Simon, as you well know! This is a theory that was backed up by British and Portuguese Police. Actually it started out as a British Police theory!

But is this the only way the UK media are able to refer to the death in the appartment scenario, by calling it a "discredited Amaral theory"?

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by kangdang on 23.11.10 3:06

@soulthief wrote:kangdang, what do you think the motives were?


To promote his own personal beliefs.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by soulthief on 23.11.10 3:13

@kangdang wrote:
@soulthief wrote:kangdang, what do you think the motives were?


To promote his own personal beliefs.
That all? Because Im wondering if this was done to assist the McCanns to discredit the foundation, when I first saw it thought yea could have been a lot worse..but on reflection its as if he was doing it for them

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by ufercoffy on 23.11.10 7:01

Sasha from Little Morsals has done a transcript

Transcript for BBC (Inside Out) documentary on Madeleine Foundation



Please note: I have only just finished this transcript and have not had time to go over it for grammatical/spelling errors yet, I'll be doing that in the morning.

Opening words: Hello, tonight Inside Out is at Rothley in Leicestershire to ask, who are the Madeleine Foundation?

Voice over: The three year old’s parents say, they just add to their anquish.

Kate: There’s a certain group out there who...this is their job really...is to pick on a vulnerable family and I’m sure after us they’ll move onto another family

INSIDE OUT
East Midlands

Voice over: They’ve been described as a club for Sicko’s to distribute vile leaflets. Their members insist they’re only trying to discover what happened to Madeleine McCann, but the parents of the missing youngster say the so-called Madeleine Foundation is hindering the search for their daughter and adding to their anguish. Simon Hare has been investigating.

Simon Hare: Well, it’s a Saturday afternoon and most people are busy enjoying their weekend, but somewhere here in Nottingham a group of people have got together to discuss the Madeleine McCann case.
(cuts into Simon answering mobile phone...Hello, Simon...)

Simon Hare (voice over) : Secrecy surrounds what’s been billed as the annual conference of the self appointed Madeleine Foundation. They said I can attend, but I have to wait for news of the location. I’m told to make my way to a hotel with conference facilities, but this proves to be just the meeting place. I’m then taken to the real venue .... a room in this village hall in Nuttall.

A member takes some photos, including one of me. Chairman Grenville Green from Nottingham is also happy to be pictured and the organisations’ secretary and co-founder, Tony Bennett, is keen to promote his new book made up of selected extracts from the case files.

There were 19 people at the meeting and I was told that they’d come from all over the country and that one couple had even come from Northern France. Er, they didn’t want camera’s to come in, but they did allow me to sit there and take notes, they discussed many aspects of the McCann case and they also sold me a copy of their new book (“The Madeleine McCann Case Files – Volume 1”)

But at the moment I still don’t feel I’m any nearer to understanding exactly what the Madeleine Foundation is about.

Cuts into an old interview: Well among those reporters was Simon Hare for East Midlands Today, he’s with us now from Portugal...(fades out)

Simon Hare: But I do know something about the Madeleine McCann case. I was part of the East Midlands Today team that covered the events in Portugal. I interviewed the McCanns in Praia da Luz.

Cuts into old footage of Kate McCann: It really does give you great strength really to see everybody in the village, you know, giving us their support and love and everything

Simon Hare: 3 months later I was in Portamao when they were made official suspects

Cuts into footage of Simon Hare at Portamao: The crowd of onlookers, hundreds of people turned out, many booed Kate McCann as she arrived here. (fades out)

Simon Hare: A development largely thanks to this man (shows footage of Goncalo Amaral arriving at the courts) the Portuguese detective, Goncalo Amaral. But he was taken off the case and in 2008, the McCanns had their suspect status removed.

Cuts into film footage of Kate McCann: We welcome the news today although it’s no cause for celebration ...(fades out)

Simon Hare: And won libel damages from some of the more lurid press coverage they’d received.
A year later, front page news of a different kind, thanks to the Madeleine Foundation.

Cuts into footage: people living in Madeleine McCanns home village say that they are sickened that they’re now being targeted by a campaign to reopen a case against her parents.

Male: A group claiming to want justice for Madeleine says it believes she wasn’t abducted. It’s been sending hundreds of leaflets around the area calling for support.

Simon Hare: It delivered a 150 leaflets to the homes in the McCanns own neighbourhood, repeating the now discredited Amaral theory that Madeleine had died in her parents holiday apartment and they’d covered it up.
Cuts into a female journalist holding a leaflet: And the people here in Rothley who spoke to us today say they’re horrified.

Man in street: It’s absolutely repugnant I think personally.

Woman in street: I just think it’s sad and sick that people have got nothing else better to do with their time.
(Note, the documentary failed to interview those from Rothley who thought the leaflet was informative and joined the Madeleine Foundation after searching out more details.)

Simon Hare: I would meet all of the four people who delivered the leaflets that day. Among them, Debbie Butler the Foundations former Chairman and co-founder who appeared on the BBC to justify their actions.
Cut into footage of Debbie Butler: It’s a Nationwide campaign, we need to put the leaflet into as many doors as possible ...(fades out)

Simon Hare: She’s since fallen out with Tony Bennett and is no longer a member of the Foundation, but she agreed to meet me near her home in Kent.

Debbie Butler: Mr Bennett decided that we would go to that area. I’d never been there, he’d been there before, I found out that he had been there before, erm, he knew where we were going, I drove, we had Grenville Green with us and Helene Davies, his wife. We visited the farm that Kate had taken the children to and had some lunch there. Mr Bennett leafleted there alone and instructed me to go and leaflet in the immediate area where the McCanns live, erm, which I did with Helene and then he told me I must leaflet their road, which I did...I was doing it with Helene but Helene...Helene’s legs just went to jelly and she wouldn’t do it, so I did. I didn’t leaflet their own home at all.

Simon Hare: Tony Bennett denies he told Debbie Butler what to do that day but both were subsequently pursued by the McCanns lawyers and in the November last year, Mr Bennett assured the High Court he wouldn’t distribute any more of the leaflets or he could lose £50,000 and even go to prison for contempt of court.

Cuts into BBC footage of Tony Bennett setting up placards “What really happened to Madeleine McCann” and handing out leaflets to members of the public as they passed.

Interesting the background song to this clip “I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t care what the people may say about me...”

Simon Hare: But by this summer Tony Bennett was distributing a new leaflet. He’s come to Bristol to what’s billed as the Goncalo Amaral Awareness Day. He’s accompanied by another Madeleine Foundation member who’s a little camera shy.

Cuts into film footage of the member hiding behind a post. Simon joking tells her he’s going around this side of the pillar

Tony Bennett: People think we are representing the McCanns in some way....

Simon Hare: Doesn’t that worry you?

Tony Bennett: Erm, not really no because it’s a chance to explain to people erm what we’re about and that there is a big mystery at the heart of this.

Cuts into film clip of woman on the street: I wouldn’t dare say what I thought – Id’ be sued! (laughs)

Cuts into film clip an elderly couple

Tony Bennett: People will no doubt be reading that leaflet as they pass around the town. Not one person’s come back to me to complain at all and say this is outrageous

Simon Hare: But in the afternoon there are a number of hostile reactions

Cuts into film footage of a group of children (you’ll have to watch the video to get the gist of what the children are saying)

Cuts into film footage of a young male adult: I think it’s a bit disrespectful

Cuts into film footage of a woman on the street: I have a two year old daughter you know, if I’d, If I’d lost my daughter like that woman has I wouldn’t want to think someone was out saying that in the street.

Simon Hare: A few days later after hundreds of copies have been handed out, he (Tony Bennett) agrees to the McCanns lawyers’ demands not to distribute this latest leaflet.

They (the McCanns) didn’t want to talk to us about Tony Bennett’s campaign, but on the third anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance, Kate and Gerry McCann seemed to allude to the Foundation.

GMTV presenter: You know to this day there are people convinced you had something to do with it, how on earth do you deal with that?

Kate: Well, erm...well I think it’s changed erm, certainly we don’t get the same level of criticism that we did and even then to be fair it was the minority really, I think most people...even if, you know, they don’t agree with...with..., you know, what we did, then they wouldn’t feel it right or fair to add to our suffering.

Gerry begins to talk: I think...

Kate cuts in: But having said that I think it’s just a small minority now and you know there’s a certain group there how, this is their job really, is to pick on a vulnerable family and I’m sure after us they’ll move onto another family.

Cuts into BBC footage of Tony Bennett.

Simon Hare: I think she meant you

Tony Bennett: Er, I didn’t hear that. I don’t know whether she meant us or not but erm we are focused on this particular case, I...my focused on the truth so are the members and supporters of the Madeleine Foundation exactly the same. I haven’t got any history of persuing any individuals

Simon Hare: Tony Bennett previously tried and failed to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for child neglect.

In 2006 he attempted to mount a prosecution of Michael Barrymore in relation to the night Stuart Lubbock died at the TV entertainers’ home. Another high profile case at the centre of a media frenzy. Tony Bennett first came into prominence by taking direct action over the metrification of signs.

Tony Bennett: A lot of people don’t want to see metres and kilometres on our roadsigns

Simon Hare: A course which won a lot of support. He then began removing road signs to campaign for the introduction of old county boundaries

Tony Bennett: I think the majority of the public would like to see these signs ‘Welcome to Lancashire’ on the correct Lancashire boarder.

Simon Hare: Unlike some of his Madeleine Foundation colleagues, he appears to quite like the camera’s notoriety. Last year he could be clearly seen sat behind Gerry McCann as he gave evidence to a Parliamentary subcommittee on the Press and Privacy. Tony Bennett later posted on the internet:
“It was to send out a quiet message. We are looking over his shoulder, checking out what he and his team are saying. Watching.”

Tony Bennett: If it is certain she was abducted then we are (can’t work out what this word is) to their anguish

Simon Hare: And does, does that not bother you? I mean you’re a father, a grandfather.

Tony Bennett: Erm, I’m persuaded that there are still questions to be answered and, and er, as I say I’ve got to be careful what I say, but then I do question their version of events and whether in fact Madeleine was abducted as do many other people.

Simon Hare: but you don’t know what happened; I don’t know what happened...

Tony Bennett: No I don’t...

Simon Hare: And only those responsible truly know

Tony Bennett: I agree. I agree. We don’t know what happened so why can’t we say erm you know, why can’t we ... I mean after all if I’m making bad points, if we’re making points on our website er they can be challenged and refuted easily can’t they.

Simon Hare: The internet is awash with forums and message boards about Madeleine. Some of these sites have seen threats of violence made towards the McCanns and their family home here at Rothley. Inside Out understands that the police have become involved in the past. People who post on these forums describe themselves as ‘Pro’ and ‘Anti’ McCann. Those connected with the Madeleine Foundation have also been subject to threats.

Debbie Butler: Half past twelve one night my phone rang and er I was told I’d be stabbed in front of my son straight through my heart. I phoned the police...erm...I’ve had other threats

Cuts into footage of Tony Bennett with a Madeleine Foundation member walking through the streets.

Simon Hare: The Madeleine Foundation has come to London. They’re delivering more letters to both the Portuguese and British Governments.

Tony Bennett and three members stand outside 10 Downing Street for photos.

Tony Bennett: So what happens? We knock on the door and someone comes and receives it? Okay.

Simon Hare: The latest leaflet that they’d agreed to stop distributing has made a comeback.

Tony Bennett: Well we’ve had a rethink on that and we see no reason why we shouldn’t distribute it. We weren’t threatened with any libel action or anything like that. We erm, we took a decision three months ago not to distribute it but we’ve reconsidered and see no reason why shouldn’t distribute it, especially on Goncalo Amaral’s birthday.

Simon Hare: But in July the McCanns lawyers, Carter Ruck, had threatened to take Tony Bennett back to the High Court. They’re letter felt that the former solicitor had failed to grasp how libel laws work. And it said that they’d also pursue any other members of the Foundation who delivered the leaflets.

The two remaining Rothley leafleters didn’t go to London. Grenville Green and his wife Helene Davies-Green have stepped down from the Foundation Committee after she was described by the Sun as a ‘Sicko’ who distributes vile leaflets.

Cuts into BBC filming of Helene in the kitchen preparing wild mushrooms.

Simon Hare: She was back in the public eye when she stood as a UKIP candidate in the general election.

Helene Davies-Green: Apparently throwing out the odd insult isn’t breaking their code of conduct.
Cuts into film footage of Grenville Green in Portugal

Simon Hare: It’s an example of free speech that her husband doesn’t like. At the beginning of the year, Grenville Green went to Portugal to attend a court hearing about Goncalo Amaral’s controversial book (The Truth in the Lie)

Grenville Green talking to Sky cameras:
Why am I here? It’s freedom of speech isn’t it. If someone has a difference of opinion to someone else er you shouldn’t have lots of money to close you down and shut you up and keep you quiet if you’ve got a difference of opinion, this is why we’re here. It’s freedom of speech; freedom of expression.

Film footage of Journalist
asks Goncalo a question as he leaves the Portuguese courts: Is your book hurting the McCanns sir?

Goncalo speaks in Portuguese (presumably "pardon?")

Journalist repeats his question: Is your book hurting the McCanns?

Goncalo Amaral then says the words which have become a controversial subject of whether he swore or said something in his native tongue. Sky News correspondent, Martin Brunt, clears this mystery on his blog 'Life of Crime': “Fala com McCanns” which means “Ask the McCanns”.

Grenville Green: This man is a folk hero, a sort of modern day Robin Hood if you will. It’s like a David and Goliath fight. If something’s right, you know it’s right. If something’s wrong, you know it’s wrong.

Cuts into BBC filming of Tony Bennet: There are always going to be those who entirely believe the McCanns account and who regard me as evil and perverted for what I’m doing. On the other hand there are those who have got legitimate questions and fully support what we’re doing.

Cuts into film footage of McCanns posing for the cameras

Simon Hare: Earlier this month, the McCanns launched an online petition calling for an investigation into their daughter’s disappearance to be independently reviewed (Note: The McCanns have NOT requested an investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine; they merely want a review of the case.)

Cuts into video footage of Gerry and Kate McCann.

Gerry Mccann:
there’s absolutely no evidence that Madeleine has been seriously harmed so without her we’ve got to believe we can still find her. Erm, it’s difficult, we know that and that’s why we’re asking for help, we need assistance and the authorities need to do more.

Cuts into film footage of Simon Hare: Last week the McCanns revealed that they are now writing their own book. In a statement on their website Kate McCann said “My reason for writing is simple, to give an account of the truth.” Just like that GMTV interview, I can’t help but feel that that was partly aimed at the Madeleine Foundation.
ENDS

http://littlemorsals.blogspot.com/2010/11/transcript-for-bbc-inside-out.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LittleMorsals+%28Little+Morsals%29

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A few comments on the 'Inside Out' programme

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.11.10 7:53

Nonentity wrote:I'll tell you what I think. I've just watched the video (and btw thank you ufercoffy for putting it up). It came across as unsympathetic to the Madeleine Foundation. It may have flagged up to people previously unaware of the organisation that it exists, but the byline was glaringly obvious that people should beware, these guys are a bunch of nutters.

There was nothing that I could identify in the film that could be said to be to the Foundation's credit, but very much acting to its discredit. Just off the top of my head:- the mention (perfectly understandably IMO) of Tony Bennett's past campaigns against Michael Barrymore and road sign metrification, Debbie Butler's "Tony Told Me To Do It" denunciation of the leafletting of Rothley which apparently was so controversial at the time that Helene Green-Davies buckled at the knees, the clip of Grenville Green "roping in" (for that is how it will be seen) his Downs Syndrome son on a cold wet day in Lisbon to show solidarity with Goncalo Amaral whose theories according to the film have since been "discredited", and Tony Bennett agreeing not to distribute further leaflets and then going back on his word. And if that were not enough to be going on with, coming perilously close to re-transmitting the clip of Goncalo Amaral saying (as I understand it though there have been various interpretations) "Fala con McCanns" (Talk to the McCanns) and leaving it to the viewer to remind themselves that BBC East Midlands, the very same people who produced this piece, reported his comment as "F**k the McCanns. You will remember that to this day, and despite being put right, they have left the record uncorrected.

Just my opinion, and I stand to be contradicted if I must be, but on the whole I felt the film was unedifying.
Sharon Lawrence and myself committed weeks ago to attend the launch of the new safermedia organisation in the House of Commons yesterday afternoon (www.safermedia.org.uk) on behalf of The Madeleine Foundation. We stayed beghind to network with some of those attending and therefore missed the porogramme, besides which I don't have a TV anyway. I have however seen some breach-of-copyright clips posted on YouTube by McCann-believers so by now have a rough idea of what was shown [I am also just aware of 'Little Morsals' having made a transcription, thank you to her and to ufercoffy for posting, I will look at it later].

I shall be posting here in a few days a report of our attendance at the safermedia launch, which was basically to start a new and more urgent campaign to deal with the rising tide of adult and child pornography available in various media - and now of course including the internet. The afternoon's proceedings began with an address by U.S. journalist Pamela Paul, author of 'Pornified'. We were able to talk to several people about the work of The Madeleine Foundation, not least Sharon who was able to visit her M.P. Huw Irranca-Davies in his office and chat about the work of The Madeleine Foundation.

Turning to what I know of the programme, I think Nonentity that most of the points you make are unfortunately correct. We were always aware that we would not get positive coverage, but we did believe that the BBC's duty to be fair, impartial and balanced would mean that we would get a reasonable opportunity to explain our case to viewers. To some extent at least, that appears to have been allowed.

However, both the BBC and ourselves were restrained by the straitjacket of U.K. libel laws. The parts of my interviews with Simon Hare where I gave a brief and cautious explanation of our reasons for doubting the McCanns' abduction claim appear not to have been used.

Turning to some specific points:

Debbie Butler's claims

Ms Butler made these claims in her short interview:

* That we deliberately chose to visit a place where Dr Kate McCann had once taken Madeleine for a pony ride
* That some of us leafletted there
* That she was 'told' to leaflet in Rothley
* That she only leafletted The Crescent, where the McCanns lived, because Helene Davies-Green's legs turned to jelly.

Just to place this on the record, all four of those claims were wholly false. Moreover, Simon Hare knew full well Ms Butler's propensity for lying. He knew all about the false accusations against me by Ms Butler; indeed, he was actually in my home the day DCI Roe of Essex Police telephoned to tell me that Essex Police had decided to terminate their investigation into me without charging me. He also knew that Ms Butler had lied, lied and lied again about her claimed 'walk across Spain'. On top of that, although Simon Hare did put many points to me for reply, at no time did he give me an opportunity to respond to the above false claims by Ms Butler. We may well deal with that aspect by letter to BBC TV East Midlands.

The claims that Amaral himself and 'his theory' were both 'discredited' are also claims that in our opinion go beyond the known facts. Clearly the BBC was in no mood whatsoever to publicly concede that there was any real doubt whatsoever that Madeleine was abducted just as the McCanns said she was.

I will return in due course to publish some of the initial reactions to the programme. The very first we have received was this one:

Tony,

I want to send a Christmas present to Dr. Amaral, i.e. to send him some money for him, his wife and his children, is their any possibility that you can give me a) his address, or b) his account number? I would of course prefer a) so that I can also send him a card with our best wishes for the future.

Sincerely

[withheld] and family

My final brief comment is that the media coverage in the U.K. in the Madeleine McCann case can be likened to a supertanker. A supertanker cannot be turned round in minutes. So far as I'm aware, this is the first time that as McCann-sceptics we have been allowed our say within a programme. I would like to think that this might be followed by other British mainstream media having a critical look at the evidence against the abduction claim as as well as the evidence for it.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by soulthief on 23.11.10 7:55

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Nonentity wrote:I'll tell you what I think. I've just watched the video (and btw thank you ufercoffy for putting it up). It came across as unsympathetic to the Madeleine Foundation. It may have flagged up to people previously unaware of the organisation that it exists, but the byline was glaringly obvious that people should beware, these guys are a bunch of nutters.

There was nothing that I could identify in the film that could be said to be to the Foundation's credit, but very much acting to its discredit. Just off the top of my head:- the mention (perfectly understandably IMO) of Tony Bennett's past campaigns against Michael Barrymore and road sign metrification, Debbie Butler's "Tony Told Me To Do It" denunciation of the leafletting of Rothley which apparently was so controversial at the time that Helene Green-Davies buckled at the knees, the clip of Grenville Green "roping in" (for that is how it will be seen) his Downs Syndrome son on a cold wet day in Lisbon to show solidarity with Goncalo Amaral whose theories according to the film have since been "discredited", and Tony Bennett agreeing not to distribute further leaflets and then going back on his word. And if that were not enough to be going on with, coming perilously close to re-transmitting the clip of Goncalo Amaral saying (as I understand it though there have been various interpretations) "Fala con McCanns" (Talk to the McCanns) and leaving it to the viewer to remind themselves that BBC East Midlands, the very same people who produced this piece, reported his comment as "F**k the McCanns. You will remember that to this day, and despite being put right, they have left the record uncorrected.

Just my opinion, and I stand to be contradicted if I must be, but on the whole I felt the film was unedifying.
Sharon Lawrence and myself committed weeks ago to attend the launch of the new safermedia organisation in the House of Commons yesterday afternoon (www.safermedia.org.uk) on behalf of The Madeleine Foundation. We stayed beghind to network with some of those attending and therefore missed the porogramme, besides which I don't have a TV anyway. I have however seen some breach-of-copyright clips posted on YouTube by McCann-believers so by now have a rough idea of what was shown [I am also just aware of 'Little Morsals' having made a transcription, thank you to her and to ufercoffy for posting, I will look at it later].

I shall be posting here in a few days a report of our attendance at the safermedia launch, which was basically to start a new and more urgent campaign to deal with the rising tide of adult and child pornography available in various media - and now of course including the internet. The afternoon's proceedings began with an address by U.S. journalist Pamela Paul, author of 'Pornified'. We were able to talk to several people about the work of The Madeleine Foundation, not least Sharon who was able to visit her M.P. Huw Irranca-Davies in his office and chat about the work of The Madeleine Foundation.

Turning to what I know of the programme, I think Nonentity that most of the points you make are unfortunately correct. We were always aware that we would not get positive coverage, but we did believe that the BBC's duty to be fair, impartial and balanced would mean that we would get a reasonable opportunity to explain our case to viewers. To some extent at least, that appears to have been allowed.

However, both the BBC and ourselves were restrained by the straitjacket of U.K. libel laws. The parts of my interviews with Simon Hare where I gave a brief and cautious explanation of our reasons for doubting the McCanns' abduction claim appear not to have been used.

Turning to some specific points:

Debbie Butler's claims

Ms Butler made these claims in her short interview:

* That we deliberately chose to visit a place where Dr Kate McCann had once taken Madeleine for a pony ride
* That some of us leafletted there
* That she was 'told' to leaflet in Rothley
* That she only leafletted The Crescent, where the McCanns lived, because Helene Davies-Green's legs turned to jelly.

Just to place this on the record, all four of those claims were wholly false. Moreover, Simon Hare knew full well Ms Butler's propensity for lying. He knew all about the false accusations against me by Ms Butler; indeed, he was actually in my home the day DCI Roe of Essex Police telephoned to tell me that Essex Police had decided to terminate their investigation into me without charging me. He also knew that Ms Butler had lied, lied and lied again about her claimed 'walk across Spain'. On top of that, although Simon Hare did put many points to me for reply, at no time did he give me an opportunity to respond to the above false claims by Ms Butler. We may well deal with that aspect by letter to BBC TV East Midlands.

The claims that Amaral himself and 'his theory' were both 'discredited' are also claims that in our opinion go beyond the known facts. Clearly the BBC was in no mood whatsoever to publicly concede that there was any real doubt whatsoever that Madeleine was abducted just as the McCanns said she was.

I will return in due course to publish some of the initial reactions to the programme. The very first we have received was this one:

Tony,

I want to send a Christmas present to Dr. Amaral, i.e. to send him some money for him, his wife and his children, is their any possibility that you can give me a) his address, or b) his account number? I would of course prefer a) so that I can also send him a card with our best wishes for the future.


Sincerely

[withheld] and family

My final brief comment is that the media coverage in the U.K. in the Madeleine McCann case can be likened to a supertanker. A supertanker cannot be turned round in minutes. So far as I'm aware, this is the first time that as McCann-sceptics we have been allowed our say within a programme. I would like to think that this might be followed by other British mainstream media having a critical look at the evidence against the abduction claim as as well as the evidence for it.
muratfan has the video of the programme on his site

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.11.10 8:31

I think I had better just add this for the record, as one or two may still be inclined to believe some or all of Ms Butler's claims about 12 August 2009.

We arrived in Mountsorrel around lunch-time that day, having earlier visited a possible venue in south Derbyshire for our February annual conference. As there was a sign to a 'Tea Room and Restaurant' in the middle of Mountsorrel, we parked there and had lunch. It was only after we got there that Ms Butler exclaimed: "This is the place where Kate took Madeleine riding on a pony!".

Absolutely no MF leaflets were distributed at those premises.

Afterwards, Ms Butler and the Greens leafleted part of Rothley. During the leafleting of The Crescent, Helene had to give strong advice to Ms Butler to refrain from her intention of posting a leaflet through the McCanns' home letter-box. Furthermore, there is a public footpath that runs along the back of the McCanns' home. Ms Butler wanted to walk down it. Helene once again strongly advised her (successfully) to refrain from doing so.

These are the facts. I am very sorry that the BBC chose to play that clip of Ms Butler without putting to us what she was claiming - and after they were fully aware of her propensity for lying.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Cheshire Cat on 23.11.10 8:38

@Cheshire Cat wrote:I have read the transcript of the programme and there is balance in the sense that MF members are allowed to comment and make points.

However, this sentence is one to be challenged:

"Simon Hare: It delivered a 150 leaflets to the homes in the McCanns own neighbourhood, repeating the now discredited Amaral theory that Madeleine had died in her parents holiday apartment and they’d covered it up."

On the contrary Simon, as you well know! This is a theory that was backed up by British and Portuguese Police. Actually it started out as a British Police theory!

But is this the only way the UK media are able to refer to the death in the appartment scenario, by calling it a "discredited Amaral theory"?

Tony

As I said earlier I enjoyed the programme but there was one point that I thought was very misleading (reproduced above).

I do think that you did the right thing participating in the programme.

All the Foundation members came accross as both thoughtful and decent.

And you actually remind me of a bespectacled Roald Dahl (of course the Big Friendly Giant is a Dahl tale from which the McCanns must have drawn inspiration for their own fantasy - young children snatched from there beds while sleeping!)

Here's hoping for much interest in the good work you do!

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.11.10 8:53

@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@Cheshire Cat wrote:I have read the transcript of the programme and there is balance in the sense that MF members are allowed to comment and make points.However, this sentence is one to be challenged:

"Simon Hare: It delivered a 150 leaflets to the homes in the McCanns own neighbourhood, repeating the now discredited Amaral theory that Madeleine had died in her parents holiday apartment and they’d covered it up."
Tony

As I said earlier I enjoyed the programme but there was one point that I thought was very misleading (reproduced above).
Yes. The words 'now discredited' should have been omitted. This has to be coupled with Simon Hare not adhering to his clear undertaking to include a reference to Amaral's book now being unbanned in Portugal. I daresay that nervous editors and producers may have decided to exclude that at the last minute for fear of repercussions. During all the recorded discussions with Simon Hare I had one hand metaphorically tied behind my back as I could not explain our reasons for our scepticism about the McCanns' claims.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by aiyoyo on 23.11.10 9:10

I agree with you kangdang, Mr hare betrayed MF.
He said DB wasn’t to be included – he lied. Not only that, he didn’t even bother to verify her story with TB. It’s too late to undo the damage.[/si
He also said he intended to mention book ban overturned, but he did not do it. Of course he could always claim it was edited out, but who’s to know the truth because if he can lie about DB inclusion he can lie about this.

]He failed miserable to portray the work of MF properly which I thought was the sole purpose of this Inside Out investigation. He leaves a bad taste in the mouth – it’s as if a much talked about and anticipated event when the reel unrolled people couldn’t grasp the plot because there wasn’t any.[/size]

Was it pro-mccanns – not totally – very measured and very wary of mccanns’ xpress libel came across loud and clear. Was it unbiased and fair to MF – not totally either. Why mentioned leaflet drop in the negative way, especially the DB bit.

What I disliked most about it was his continual referral to Amaral as discredited. Discredited by who? By ballless journalists precisely like his kind who conferred the adjective on Amaral for what purpose I haven’t a clue. To please the mccanns -- hence to imply that his theory was not credible? What exactly was their purpose when they chose that to call him that fails me because had they used ex-detective how can that be libellous.

]He could have used the opportunity to pose question to the mccanns, as in if they really want to find out what happened to Madeleine why not join in the campaign with MF and lobby for a reopening of the case. If they were really innocent and have nothing to fear whatsoever, then what better way to prove their innocence by joining the campaigners at MF. An outside organization representing them can also be seen as a support group for them lobbying for their much desired review if not reopening. Why didn’t Mr Hare ask them why they objected to MF? If the facts in the PJ files were untrue, what better way to convince their skeptics by joining them? Let’s put it this way, any innocent with nothing to hide would be grateful to any organization who lobbies for the truth for their missing child.

I also didn’t understand the anti-climax ending where Hare mentioned the mccann’s book…free advertisement for them ? Or did he have a subtle message…read between the lines of their pages?

I wonder whether TB felt he was used by Simon Hare for his own agenda? No doubt TB will have certain contentious issue to settle with Simon Hare...but be prepared for more patronisation fromSimon Hare. More excuses and lies.......hidden behind a veneer before. Now let's see whether his mask comes off in his reply.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by soulthief on 23.11.10 9:32

@Tony Bennett wrote:I think I had better just add this for the record, as one or two may still be inclined to believe some or all of Ms Butler's claims about 12 August 2009.

We arrived in Mountsorrel around lunch-time that day, having earlier visited a possible venue in south Derbyshire for our February annual conference. As there was a sign to a 'Tea Room and Restaurant' in the middle of Mountsorrel, we parked there and had lunch. It was only after we got there that Ms Butler exclaimed: "This is the place where Kate took Madeleine riding on a pony!".

Absolutely no MF leaflets were distributed at those premises.

Afterwards, Ms Butler and the Greens leafleted part of Rothley. During the leafleting of The Crescent, Helene had to give strong advice to Ms Butler to refrain from her intention of posting a leaflet through the McCanns' home letter-box. Furthermore, there is a public footpath that runs along the back of the McCanns' home. Ms Butler wanted to walk down it. Helene once again strongly advised her (successfully) to refrain from doing so.

These are the facts. I am very sorry that the BBC chose to play that clip of Ms Butler without putting to us what she was claiming - and after they were fully aware of her propensity for lying.
I've asked this before, so now I ask again, did Debbie Butler create the foundation? If she did not, who did?

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.11.10 10:13

@soulthief wrote:I've asked this before, so now I ask again, did Debbie Butler create the Foundation? If she did not, who did?
I've answered this many times before, but am happy to do so again.

Debbie approached me following my attempt to summons the McCanns for child neglect in November 2007 and suggested a group be formed.

We met by arrangement at Bluewater Shopping Centre I think in early December, discussed the possible formation of an organisation, and agreed to open a bank account, devise a constitution for a membership organisation, and hold an intial meeting, which we did in Harlow in January 2008. At that meeting Debbie was elected Chairman and myself Secretary.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by Guest on 23.11.10 10:27

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2010/11/bbc-whitewashing-death-of-madeleine.html

BBC Whitewashing the death of Madeleine



http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.com/


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

Many thanks to Nigel Moore for the video of last nights BBC Farce.


Did we expect any less than complete propaganda from the BBC. This time they even produced the un bleeped version of where Dr.Amaral they claim said'Fuck the McCanns' also implying Amaral was the only officer involved in the case and he made the McCanns suspects all by himself. Profiler Lee Rainbow left out of the equation . Biased reporting on the Madeleine Foundation was expected and implying there are only nineteen people who do not believe the McCanns 'story' of abduction is farcical. It was unfortunate that a member chose to hind behind a concrete block which gave the 'reporter' and I use the term lightly ,a chance to take the piss. Young girls chosen to be interviewed and chew bubblegum for a living, have no knowledge of the police files or even how to use a computer by the looks of them, a mouse is to be fed cheese...no interest in Madeleine or what became of her .. Debbie Butler, was rather spiteful I thought and knowing this was important to the cause could maybe have not thrown Tony Bennet to the wolves at this juncture but have swallowed her pride all for the sake of Madeleine. But she is a woman .I am not going to say scorned but sadly this is the impression she gave.

Until the Gaspar statement becomes public knowledge, little housewives like we saw in this farce from the BBC shall remain ignorant. Now ask a housewife to read Katerina Gaspars thoughts, and then ask what she feels about the McCanns and their buddies...it will be OMG, OMG I did not know this OMG...and that is the reaction you would have received on BBC TV..this of course would have been removed before going to air.

Just out of interest you may like to know most of my readers are from Singapore, Mexico, Russia,Germany and South Korea.

Cheer up Tony, I have left a link on the JonBenet case and they had a body but with political intervention the case was never solved....however Patsy, the mom is dead and the case has now been re-opened, all eyes are on JonBenets brother Burke and what he knows. Burke is being treated with kid gloves, he was there that night and he maybe knows something he was afraid to say at the time, he has been given a number if he ever wants to talk.

The BBC are fools and because of their witch-hunt tactics could not mention Operation Oreor report on the court hearing.

I wonder if Tony Bennett could have a chat with Louise Shorter, maybe she can find a way to get some reporting of the Police files into the press , it is a long shot but worth a try. Louise claims to believe in Justice, lets see if she will put her money where her mouth is. I understand the McCanns in the eyes of the law are innocent because they have not been charged. The Ramseys, also, but with a lot of political pressure...who the hell sits and writes a five page ramson note in the home ...many , many questions but political meddling shuts many mouths and money talks, it also buys silence.

http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.com/2010/11/resignation-letter-of-det.html

Letter of resignation, Americas Goncalo Amaral....

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by WOODWARD on 23.11.10 10:42

The word DISCREDITED was carefully chosen for legal reasons. In a recent inter view Snr Amaral describes himself as having been DISCREDITED by the mccanns. My own view is that it is a poor choice of word and a more accurate description would have been DEFAMED.
Sadly as soon as I saw the word in the synopsis I read it as a libel avoiding spin trick. Simon Hareand BBC East Midlands are very much in the thrall of kate and gerry ,he falls into the same category as the journalist who said he knew they were innocent because he had met them. Who are the nutters?

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by aiyoyo on 23.11.10 10:57

@Tony Bennett wrote:I think I had better just add this for the record, as one or two may still be inclined to believe some or all of Ms Butler's claims about 12 August 2009.

We arrived in Mountsorrel around lunch-time that day, having earlier visited a possible venue in south Derbyshire for our February annual conference. As there was a sign to a 'Tea Room and Restaurant' in the middle of Mountsorrel, we parked there and had lunch. It was only after we got there that Ms Butler exclaimed: "This is the place where Kate took Madeleine riding on a pony!".

Absolutely no MF leaflets were distributed at those premises.

Afterwards, Ms Butler and the Greens leafleted part of Rothley. During the leafleting of The Crescent, Helene had to give strong advice to Ms Butler to refrain from her intention of posting a leaflet through the McCanns' home letter-box. Furthermore, there is a public footpath that runs along the back of the McCanns' home. Ms Butler wanted to walk down it. Helene once again strongly advised her (successfully) to refrain from doing so.

These are the facts. I am very sorry that the BBC chose to play that clip of Ms Butler without putting to us what she was claiming - and after they were fully aware of her propensity for lying.

BBC is a disgrace, involving you from the outset about this program, yet at their whim and fancy included DB without regard for the true, when they know the history of the fallout.

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Re: Discussion on BBC Programme re MF - Inside Out 7.30 pm 22/11/10

Post by pennylane on 23.11.10 11:10

@WOODWARD wrote:The word DISCREDITED was carefully chosen for legal reasons. In a recent inter view Snr Amaral describes himself as having been DISCREDITED by the mccanns. My own view is that it is a poor choice of word and a more accurate description would have been DEFAMED.
Sadly as soon as I saw the word in the synopsis I read it as a libel avoiding spin trick. Simon Hareand BBC East Midlands are very much in the thrall of kate and gerry ,he falls into the same category as the journalist who said he knew they were innocent because he had met them. Who are the nutters?

I agree Woodward.

I feel this show was a disgrace...... the BBC has hit rock bottom with its sloppy, biased, manipulative journalism - that has totally omitted important facts - and even altered some to suit their agenda. The opportunity to tell the real story behind the push for justice by brave people that will not be intimidated into silence has been totally lost!

The BBC should change the name of this useless show from "Inside Out" to "Upside Down" because it's definitely not interested in the truth, or unbiased journalism that has integrity!

I would like to take this opportunity once again to thank Tony Bennett and TMF for doing such an amazing job in seeking justice for a missing child, and for their courageous stance that is second to none!

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