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Robert Murat.

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We saw you - Oh no you didn't - Oh yes we did

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.10 12:33

@kathyBelle wrote:Regarding Robert Murat, I wasn't in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared, so I have to rely on information that I have read on the net, or hear various people say in media interviews and discussions on radio programmes.

As I have previously said, I heard Robert Murat's lawyer say he requested he was made an arguido, because of the times he was questioned over this incident. It appears that Robert Murat's lawyer, was telling lies when he made that statement outside of Mr Murat's home.

I read and heard that Robert Murat, was taken in for questioning, within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, because of the female journalist's suspicions around him. I also read and heard he was taken in for questioning several times, before he was made an arguido. It appears that what I read and heard, isn't true.

I read and heard, that the P.J. were more thorough when they investigated Robert Murat, than they were when they investigated the McCanns. It appears that what I have read and heard is also untrue...

...I've given myself a ticking off.
kathyBelle, the information I derive when posting re Robert Murat is mainly a combination of the police witness statements and also the English translation of Amaral's book.

One detail that Amaral includes, for example, is what happened when the three 'Tapas' group members confronted Robert Murat on 11 July 2007.

Jane Tanner, on 13 May, said she was adamant that Robert Murat was the person she had allegedly seen carrying a child 10 days earlier. Then the three 'Tapas' members joined in, over the next two days, telling police they were 'sure' they had seen Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club in the late evening of 3 May, the day Madeleine was reported missing. Murat vehemently denied this.

Amaral and his men wanted to see who was telling the truth, so he had the four of them in a room on 11 July in Portimao, basically the 'Tapas 3' saying: 'We saw you", Murat saying: "Oh no you didn't" and the 'Tapas 3' saying: "Oh yes we did".

If you read between the lines of Amaral's chapter on thiese matters, it seems clear that Amaral believed Murat but not the 'Tapas 3'.

Undoubtedly KathyBelle this has been a very very cunning story from the McCanns and their friends and much remains hidden.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by saloongirl on 10.11.10 12:42

Which member of the Tapas Team is it that Murat resembles? Is it David Payne? I often wondered if David Payne was seen somewhere he shouldn't have been, and the Tapas Team were trying to make out it was really Murat.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Cheshire Cat on 10.11.10 13:04

Kathybelle

If Robert Murat has nothing to hide, why does he not re-open the process?

Surely this would be the best way of allowing him to explain the contradicitons in his account of events, whilst clearing his name in the public areana for once and for all? If he had no part in the cover-up what-so-ever this would be revealed as the investigation progressed, assuming the investigation was not hindered by political forces. For example proper questioning of David Payne and Jayne Tanner may bring to light new evidence that the original enquiry failed to glean.

I have found that since I opened my mind to the role of Murat and the fact that Madeleine may have met her demise sometime before 3 May 2007 I have become satisfied that the McCann's would have had access to enough local knowledge and sufficient time to make it feasible for them too have covered up the death and hide the body.

I fear that those who refuse to accept Murat's role as being no more than a helpful soul who volunteered his services as a translator will never solve this crime.

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Fiona - did you see Murat, or your husband?

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.10 13:05

@saloongirl wrote:Which member of the Tapas Team is it that Murat resembles? Is it David Payne? I often wondered if David Payne was seen somewhere he shouldn't have been, and the Tapas Team were trying to make out it was really Murat.
Yes, David Payne. It was also said that Murat looked like one of the Symingtons.

You said: "I often wondered if David Payne was seen somewhere he shouldn't have been, and the Tapas Team were trying to make out it was really Murat".

REPLY: No, I don't think that theory stands up. David Payne would have been seen in and around the Ocean Club after 10.00pm on 3 May; he participated (after a fashion) in the search for Madeleine.

There was what appeared to be a Mitchell-co-ordinated attempt around about the beginning of 2008 to develop stories around Murat looking like Payne and Symington. Photos of them looking similar were most helpfully provided to the media...by someone. This was part of what I suggest was a deliberate process of removing suspicions against Murat, after he and Brian Kennedy had struck a deal at their crucial meeting on Tuesday 13 November at the Eveleighs' villa on the Algarve.

As one astute observer pointed out when the press was in full cry saying the 'Tapas 3' mistook Payne for Murat, one of the three 'Tapas 3' who had up until then loudly proclaimed 'I saw Murat outside the Ocean Club' was Fiona Payne, wife of Dr David Payne.

The same observer commented: "You would think a wife would be able to tell whether she saw her husband or not".

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Robert Murat moves, bit by bit, out of the frame

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.10 13:16

EXTRACT FROM MY ARTICLE ON ROBERT MURAT

Here's some extracts from my article on Robert Murat which address some of the issues raised in this thread:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We’ll now look at some curious statements by the McCann Team about whether or not they still believed Murat to be the abductor.

By 16 November, Jane Tanner seemed to be deliberately preparing the ground for Robert Murat no longer to be identified by her and three of the other ‘Tapas 9’ friends as the suspected abductor.

A Daily Mail article on Sunday 16 November 2007 began: “The woman [Jane Tanner] who believes she saw Madeleine McCann being abducted revealed yesterday that she has never named Robert Murat to police as the man she saw. Instead, she thinks he was ‘Mediterranean- looking’. She admitted: ‘I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not. I would say the man I saw was more local or Mediterranean looking, rather than British. He had dark, almost black, long hair and had swarthy skin. He was dressed in that sort of smart casual way European people dress”.

As we have already seen, the claim that she’d ‘never pointed a finger at Robert Murat’ was untrue as she had of course positively identified him from that police van back in May. The story appeared to be a clear and deliberate shift by the McCann camp in possible moves to lift the finger of suspicion away from Murat. The timing of this Mail article just two or three days after Brian Kennedy met Murat in Portugal (see below) is of great interest.

We’ll pause just for a moment to look at a series of particularly significant events that seem to have taken place around this time. Here’s a brief timeline of them:

Friday 7 & Saturday 8 November: Several newspapers in Portugal and then England carry news that two (or one in one report) members of the ‘Tapas 9’ wanted to change their statements. The source appears to be the Portuguese lawyer for one of the ‘Tapas 9’. Other reports did not say the person was a member of the ‘Tapas 9’ but simply described the couple who wanted to change their statement as ‘friends of the McCanns’.

Tuesday 13 November: Brian Kennedy and his in-house lawyer Edward Smethurst have meetings with Robert Murat, Metodo 3 and the Portuguese Police in Praia da Luz and Portimão. (Below we discuss this very significant set of meetings in more detail). We know the meeting with the Portuguese Police took place in Portimão on Tuesday 13 November, and Kennedy’s meeting with Murat may have been that day or one day either side of it. There has been much speculation about what kind of understanding might have been reached between that Kennedy, Smethurst and Murat at that meeting. None of those involved are keen to say what was discussed.
Wednesday 14 November: Portuguese Police source quoted as saying that they have over 100 questions to ask the McCanns and their ‘Tapas 9’ friends but are being subject to unreasonable delays by the British authorities.

Friday 16 November: Daily Mail carries an article featuring Jane Tanner saying she has never pointed the finger of suspicion at Robert Murat.

Saturday 17 November: The ‘Tapas 9’ group met all day at the Rothley Court Hotel, Leicestershire, along with representatives of Metodo 3, and no doubt various lawyers and other advisers. News of this secret meeting did not leak out to British newspapers until 11 December.

Sunday 18 November: Dr Gerald McCann quoted as saying that they believed a ‘predator’ had been stalking the apartment in the days before Madeleine was reported missing.

Monday 19 November: Hour-long BBC Panorama programme on the Madeleine McCann case by reporter Richard Bilton. There’s little original in the documentary and it reinforces the abduction line.

Monday 19 November: The METRO free paper boldly wrote: “A witness spotted Murat's German girlfriend, Michaela Walczuk, in a car with Maddie, on 5 May, in central Portugal”, while on the same day, the Daily Mail published a similar story: “According to a source, a new witness identified Michaela Walczuk as the woman seen with the missing child, in central Portugal, 160 kilometres [100 miles] from where she disappeared on May 3rd”.

Tuesday 20 November: Jane Tanner quoted by the Daily Mirror insisting that she really did see ‘Maddie’s abductor’.

Now we move on to consider another twist. As 2008 began, the Daily Mail, on 1 January 2008, carried a prominent story featuring Dr Kate McCann’s claim that she still believed that Robert Murat was involved in Madeleine’s disappearance. It had all the hallmarks of another story crafted by Clarence Mitchell and drip-fed to a friendly newspaper in order to promote the latest line from the McCann Team. Extracts from the report, written by Vanessa Allen, included the following:

QUOTE

“Kate McCann is suspicious about Robert Murat's alibi for the night her daughter Madeleine vanished, it was revealed yesterday. The mother of three has confided to friends that she believes there are questions about the British expat that need to be answered. Mrs McCann's doubts emerged after the Daily Mail reported that seven witnesses claim to have seen Mr Murat near the McCanns' holiday apartment on the night of May 3rd.

“He has always insisted he was at home all night at the villa he shares with his elderly mother in Praia da Luz, near the Mark Warner holiday complex. A friend of Kate and her husband Gerry said: ‘Kate has always felt there are questions concerning Murat and a body of evidence contrary to what he is saying. Gerry doesn't know whether he is involved but Kate has always been suspicious’.

“Mrs McCann, 39, has avoided publicly voicing suspicions about Mr Murat. She and Gerry, also 39, even called for calm after he was made an official suspect on May 14 and appealed for him to be treated fairly.

“Mr Murat, a property consultant, insists he did not learn about Madeleine's disappearance until the next morning and was not aware of the massive search going on less than 100 yards from his villa, Casa Liliana. But a source close to Mrs McCann said: ‘We now have a number of people who have come forward quite independently of us and volunteered information directly in contradiction to what he has said’. Three friends of the McCanns, Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, told police in July [NOTE: That should of course be May] that they saw Mr Murat near the Ocean Club holiday complex while they were searching for Madeleine. They are said to have given statements to Portuguese police saying he introduced himself to them [that night] and said: ‘I am Robert. Can I help in the search?’


“Charlotte Pennington, 20, a nanny at the Mark Warner complex, has said she saw Mr Murat on May 4, when he was working as a police translator, and recognised him as a man she had seen near the Ocean Club at midnight. The Mail told yesterday [31 December] how holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, 54, also recognised the 34-year-old as a man she saw smoking a cigarette on the street corner opposite the McCanns' apartment.

An unnamed British barrister who was on holiday in Praia da Luz at the time is understood to have corroborated what Mrs Jensen said, but not made a formal statement. Two other tourists also called the hotline operated by the McCanns' private detective agency, Metodo 3, to report similar sightings. Mr Murat, who has a young daughter from a failed marriage, vehemently denies any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance. His mother Jennifer, 71, has accused Metodo 3 of bribing witnesses to change their evidence. But a source close to the McCanns said: ‘He is her son and most mothers would protect their children. Either she knows something or she is mistaken’.”

UNQUOTE

So by 1 January, Murat was back in the frame, at least according to Dr Kate McCann and the Daily Mail, with Dr Kate McCann strongly hinting at ‘questions which need to be answered’ and ‘doubts’.

Extraordinarily, just one week later, the Daily Mail ran a story which said exactly the reverse. One could be forgiven for thinking that those responsible for the McCanns’ public relations were not happy with the 1 January article and wished to change it.

So here’s what Vanessa Allen wrote in the Mail just one week later:

QUOTE

Madeleine witnesses ‘may have mistaken this friend of the McCanns for Murat’ on night she disappeared Daily Mail

“Doubt was cast on the evidence of several key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann disappearance last night. Those who said they saw suspect Robert Murat outside the family's holiday apartment on the night she vanished may have named the wrong man, it was revealed.

“Detectives believe the witnesses who said they saw the British expat could have confused him with a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, David Payne, who was out searching for the missing three-year-old…

“A series of witnesses have given statements claiming to have seen him around the Ocean Club apartment complex in the hours after Mrs McCann, 39, raised the alarm. They include three friends of the McCanns, Russell O'Brien, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield, who later confronted Mr Murat at a police station after he was made a suspect and said he offered to help them search that night. Mark Warner nanny Charlotte Pennington said she saw him hanging around outside the Ocean Club's reception at about 10pm. British holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, an unnamed British barrister and two unidentified British tourists all claim to have seen him around the complex that night.

“But none of them knew the 34-year-old property consultant before that night. Police are examining the theory that they could have confused him with Dr David Payne. The medical researcher, who is 41, was searching around the complex that night and - in a street lit by orange streetlights - could easily have been mistaken for Mr Murat. Mr Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete told the Daily Mail: ‘Robert has always said the witnesses were mistaken. He was not there that night’.

“A source close to the inquiry said: ‘The similarity between the two has rendered many witness accounts virtually worthless’. But he added: ‘What is baffling is that Mr Payne's wife and two of his friends are among those who claim to have seen Mr Murat outside the McCanns' apartment that night. You'd think a wife would recognise her own husband’.”

UNQUOTE

The story had changed dramatically, within a week, from ‘Eight people saw Robert Murat that night’ to ‘They all probably mistook him for Dr David Payne’. At least the Daily Mail told its readers at the end of the article how utterly absurd it was to suggest that she might have mistaken Robert Murat for her own husband. It was another story that had the imprint of media manipulator Clarence Mitchell all over it.

Then, very soon after, we had another media...

SNIPPED

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Cheshire Cat on 10.11.10 13:18

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@saloongirl wrote:Which member of the Tapas Team is it that Murat resembles? Is it David Payne? I often wondered if David Payne was seen somewhere he shouldn't have been, and the Tapas Team were trying to make out it was really Murat.
Yes, David Payne. It was also said that Murat looked like one of the Symingtons.

You said: "I often wondered if David Payne was seen somewhere he shouldn't have been, and the Tapas Team were trying to make out it was really Murat".

REPLY: No, I don't think that theory stands up. David Payne would have been seen in and around the Ocean Club after 10.00pm on 3 May; he participated (after a fashion) in the search for Madeleine.

There was what appeared to be a Mitchell-co-ordinated attempt around about the beginning of 2008 to develop stories around Murat looking like Payne and Symington. Photos of them looking similar were most helpfully provided to the media...by someone. This was part of what I suggest was a deliberate process of removing suspicions against Murat, after he and Brian Kennedy had struck a deal at their crucial meeting on Tuesday 13 November at the Eveleighs' villa on the Algarve.

As one astute observer pointed out when the press was in full cry saying the 'Tapas 3' mistook Payne for Murat, one of the three 'Tapas 3' who had up until then loudly proclaimed 'I saw Murat outside the Ocean Club' was Fiona Payne, wife of Dr David Payne.

The same observer commented: "You would think a wife would be able to tell whether she saw her husband or not".

I suppose Payne is the most Murat looking of the Tapas males but there is hardly a striking resemblance!

Payne is older than Murat and has very little hair - Murat has a thick curly mop.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by soulthief on 10.11.10 13:20

@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Guest on 10.11.10 13:22

@Cheshire Cat wrote:Kathybelle

If Robert Murat has nothing to hide, why does he not re-open the process?

Surely this would be the best way of allowing him to explain the contradicitons in his account of events, whilst clearing his name in the public areana for once and for all? If he had no part in the cover-up what-so-ever this would be revealed as the investigation progressed, assuming the investigation was not hindered by political forces. For example proper questioning of David Payne and Jayne Tanner may bring to light new evidence that the original enquiry failed to glean.

I have found that since I opened my mind to the role of Murat and the fact that Madeleine may have met her demise sometime before 3 May 2007 I have become satisfied that the McCann's would have had access to enough local knowledge and sufficient time to make it feasible for them too have covered up the death and hide the body.

I fear that those who refuse to accept Murat's role as being no more than a helpful soul who volunteered his services as a translator will never solve this crime.


But then how do you account for the Smith sighting on 3rd May, in which M SMith is 60/80 per cent sure it was GM?

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by saloongirl on 10.11.10 13:25

Thank you Mr Bennett. Sometimes my posts don't always come across properly, I didn't mean to imply that anyone (including Fiona) genuinely mistook Payne for Murat, rather that they deliberately led people (perhaps potential eye witnesses ) to believe that they had seen Murat when it was actually Payne they had seen. I always used to believe that Murat was not involved in any way but reading other people's interesting posts I am now in two minds about that. I shall be interested to see how this thread develops.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Guest on 10.11.10 13:26

@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong


Aw soulthief, nobody ignores you. It's not cliquey as you put it. Very often when I post no one responds, or other posts go up and yours is missed. Don't take it to heart big grin

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Cheshire Cat on 10.11.10 13:34

candyfloss wrote:
@Cheshire Cat wrote:Kathybelle

If Robert Murat has nothing to hide, why does he not re-open the process?

Surely this would be the best way of allowing him to explain the contradicitons in his account of events, whilst clearing his name in the public areana for once and for all? If he had no part in the cover-up what-so-ever this would be revealed as the investigation progressed, assuming the investigation was not hindered by political forces. For example proper questioning of David Payne and Jayne Tanner may bring to light new evidence that the original enquiry failed to glean.

I have found that since I opened my mind to the role of Murat and the fact that Madeleine may have met her demise sometime before 3 May 2007 I have become satisfied that the McCann's would have had access to enough local knowledge and sufficient time to make it feasible for them too have covered up the death and hide the body.

I fear that those who refuse to accept Murat's role as being no more than a helpful soul who volunteered his services as a translator will never solve this crime.


But then how do you account for the Smith sighting on 3rd May, in which M SMith is 60/80 per cent sure it was GM?

I think the fact that Mr Smith was 60/80 percent sure is partly why Amaral wanted to bring him in for a reconstruction. Mr Smith was not 100% sure although he did have a "flash back" moment when he saw GM descend the stairs of the aircraft. What is not in doubt is that the Smith family saw a man with a small child. Perhaps a "staged abduction" that was neither GM or MM?

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 10.11.10 13:46

@Tony Bennett wrote:As one astute observer pointed out when the press was in full cry saying the 'Tapas 3' mistook Payne for Murat, one of the three 'Tapas 3' who had up until then loudly proclaimed 'I saw Murat outside the Ocean Club' was Fiona Payne, wife of Dr David Payne.

The same observer commented: "You would think a wife would be able to tell whether she saw her husband or not".

Would that be the same Fiona Payne who didn't know her own age? Didn't know if she was 30 or 35?

Quote from her rogatory interview:

"Erm, erm, I’m thirty, I’ll work that out actually, I’m thirty-five years old. I work as an Anaesthetist at Leicester and Leicester Registrar. I’m married to David Payne."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic40.html

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 10.11.10 13:51

@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong

Definitelty not cliquey here soulthief, it's just that we see you as part of the furniture now!

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by soulthief on 10.11.10 16:42

candyfloss wrote:
@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong


Aw soulthief, nobody ignores you. It's not cliquey as you put it. Very often when I post no one responds, or other posts go up and yours is missed. Don't take it to heart big grin
I dont take it to heart, twas an observation that is all. I would however beg to differ on the clique, I have seen posts where there are several just saying thank you to for example Mr Bennett yet ignore what could lead to an interesting debate..

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by kathyBelle on 10.11.10 16:55

@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong

soulthief, sorry I misread your post. I thought you were giving me a gentle reminder that I should have said "in my opinion" when you posted lmao. I now know what lmao means.

I hope I haven't offended you and I've given myself another ticking off.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Autumn on 10.11.10 16:59

@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:I have read certain posts, where I get the feeling that some posters think that Robert Murat, is involved with Madeleine's disappearance. I always thought that he wasn't involved and I thought the Portuguese police came to the same conclusion, after he was questioned several times. I don't know how many times Mr Murat's mum's house and garden were searched, but it was at least twice to my knowledge.

The police were a lot more thorough when they investigated Robert Murat, than they were with the McCanns. There was no proof that Robert Murat, was involved with Madeleine's disappearance and if it wasn't for that reporter who was suspicious of him, because he was in her words "hanging around" the police, he probably would never have been questioned.

The police on the other hand, had proof that the McCanns were involved, by at least neglect, but they were treated with kid gloves and allowed to go wherever they pleased.

If anyone does believe, that Robert Murat is involved with Madeleine's disappearance, can they please tell me why? I might have missed some information, that would have made me think the same.
I believe he was involved, probably after the fact, as in conspiracy after the fact and perverting the course of justice, I haven't read any of the other posts so dont know what others think, wanted to answer then see what others views are.
Firstly there is the Exeter link..he has connections to there and very close to one of the Tapas crew who I cant recall, think maybe it was O'Brien..then there is the Michaela thing, didn't her husband clean the MW pool and have keys? Wasn't it said she wasn 't at the Jehovah's meeting she claimed to be at? I know later these discrepancies were cleared up but were they? Or was it more cover from unknown protectors? Then there is the calls to Malinka...the cleaning of the hard drives of the pc,s the dispute between him and Murat as to when they spoke and about what. Most damning of all for me is the fact that Murat has never spoken publicly about his ordeal nor has he sought to press charges against any of the Tapas crew, the McCanns or the P.J.
thats my take on Murat, I believe he helped dispose of the body and he helped distract the P.J.

That is my belief also Soulthief, and it is puzzling why he has never pressed charges against those you mention and also Clarence who likened him to Ian Huntley. Wasn't there also something about Murat lending Gerry his car or was that never proven - I'l have another read of Murat's statements as he was questioned about this but need to refresh my memory.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.10 17:19

@soulthief wrote:I believe he was involved, probably after the fact, as in conspiracy after the fact and perverting the course of justice, I haven't read any of the other posts so don't know what others think, wanted to answer then see what others views are.

REPLY: His sudden flight to Faro in the early hours of Tuesday 1 May cries out for explanation. Murat's explanation is unconvincing. Had something already happened to Madeleine by then?

Firstly there is the Exeter link...he has connections to there and very close to one of the Tapas crew who I can't recall, think maybe it was O'Brien...

REPLY: I'm not sure there is any evidence of a previous link between Dr Russell O'Brien and Murat. Do you have a source?

...then there is the Michaela thing, didn't her husband clean the MW pool and have keys?

REPLY: Not sure. I think Luis Antonio's house key was found at Murat's house, I may be wrong.

Wasn't it said she wasn't at the Jehovah's meeting she claimed to be at?

REPLY: Yes. Have covered this in my article on Murat.

I know later these discrepancies were cleared up, but were they? Or was it more cover from unknown protectors? Then there is the calls to Malinka...the cleaning of the hard drives of the pc's, the dispute between him and Murat as to when they spoke and about what.

REPLY: Many many questions remain about Murat's role.

Most damning of all for me is the fact that Murat has never spoken publicly about his ordeal nor has he sought to press charges against any of the Tapas crew, the McCanns or the P.J.

REPLY: These are highly relevant considerations when we consider Murat's role. But then 600 grand buys silence.

Thats my take on Murat, I believe he helped dispose of the body and he helped distract the P.J.

REPLY: He appears to have known Dr Gerald McCann before the holiday. His mobile and Dr Gerald McCann's were both switched off for the exact same period for 30 hours (within 6 minutes) on 2 and 3 May. Murat lied 17 times about his movements between 1 and 4 May, including lying about visiting certain properties. These are all pieces of the jigsaw.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FROM CHAPTER I OF 'ROBERT MURAT -FROM ARGUIDO TO APPLAUSE'

I. A summary of Murat’s 17 changes of story about what he did on 1, 2, 3 and 4 May

You may by now have lost count of the number of changes in Robert Murat’s story about what he was doing between 1 and 4 May, so here’s a convenient summary of his new account of events, and how these contradicted his earlier account of events:

1. Remembers that on 1 May he tried to contact Jorge da Silva.

2. Remembers that on 2 May he didn’t leave home at 10.30am but instead had a meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista Supermarket.

3. He had in fact taken Michaela and Malinka back to his mother’s house in Praia da Luz for a further discussion, something he’d omitted to tell the police in the first interview.

4. He now remembered visiting his bank and paying in 287.51 euros.

5. He now remembered he’d called at the home of Francisco Pagarete, his lawyer, that morning.

6. He now remembers that he had met Francisco Pagarete that afternoon.

7. He now remembers that another of Jorge’s sons was present at their meeting in the café in the afternoon.

8. The meeting in the café went on much longer than he had said previously.

9. He thinks that Michaela Walczuk’s husband Luis Antonio may not have been present at Michaela’s house that evening, contrary to what he had previously said.

10. On 3 May, he had not woken at 9.00am as previously stated, but at 8.00am.

11. He had not driven to Michaela’s house that morning after 10.00am as previously stated; instead he had left home at 8.45am for a 9.30am meeting with the owner of the business tourist complex called ‘Gold Bunker’ in the Espiche district and her father-in-law.

12. He now remembered that he and Michaela had visited two apartments for about 30 minutes, probably on the afternoon of 3 May.

13. He and Michaela had lunch with the owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex and her father-in-law, a fact he had not disclosed to police before.

14. Michaela’s daughter C______ was not with them that day, contrary to his previous story.

15. They went to the Palmares Golf Club in the afternoon, another fact Murat had failed to disclose.

16. He now admitted to making two telephone calls, to Sergei Malinka and Michaela, at 11.39pm and 11.40pm that night.

17. He previously said he had woken at 9.00am on Friday 4 May. He now admitted he had telephoned Michaela at 8.27am and must have got up earlier.
A possible interpretation of these changes of story could be along these lines; namely that during his first statement, Murat did not want to admit to:


  • meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista supermarket on 2 May at around 10.00am
  • he and Michaela being in the Espiche/Almádena area at around 9.30am on 3 May
  • his meeting with the owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex
  • he, Michaela and the da Silvas being at the Palmares Golf Club on the afternoon of 3 May
  • that he had visited two apartments on the afternoon of 3 May.


We make no other comment on the large number of changes of story but leave the reader to form his or her own judgment as to why there were so many changes. We will however add this discussion by a poster on the ‘maddiecasefiles’ internet forum, who analysed these discrepancies in Murat’s account of those few days:

“Jorge Miguel Rocha da Silva tells us that even on the day Murat returned from Exeter (1 May), he tried to get in touch da Silva at the children’s clothing shop that he runs with his wife. He couldn’t, as it was a public holiday. On the following two days (2 & 3 May) he insisted that that da Silva meet him at short notice. A few days later, three days before Murat was made an arguido, Michaela Walczuk was still inviting him to get-togethers at her apartment.

“The official line from Murat is that he was talking to da Silva to persuade him to invest in his and Michaela’s venture: ‘Romigen’. Yet to this day, Romigen appears to be no more than a ‘shell’ company, just a paper idea for selling property via the internet. It doesn’t seem as though the company required any significant cash injection. And if we look at da Silva’s statements, if Murat had any intention of buying land to make money out of it, this was never made apparent to da Silva even after several hours of apparently unprofitable conversation - or rather, so it's been said, of long and puzzling silences.

“On his first full day back in Praia da Luz (2 May), Murat did manage to get in touch with da Silva at the shop. He took da Silva and his two sons to a café bar for the first round of talking. We know that Murat rang his lawyer no less than four times that day. In addition, in da Silva’s first statement to the PJ, he said that: 'They did some talking in Mrs Murat’s VW Transporter'. He says rather vaguely that the discussion was ‘to develop some details of the intended business’.


“The following day (3 May), Murat, Michaela, Jorge da Silva and his sons met again for a long session on 3 May, at the Palmares Golf Club. It is hard to understand from Jorge da Silva’s account what all these meetings were really about”.

So what could they have been about? Was the true content of these discussions being concealed?

We know that Murat came back to Portugal in apparent haste on 1 May.

His own account says that he booked his ticket on that very day. He seems to have booked his flight ticket at between midnight and 2.00am. His sister Samantha took him to the airport to catch the 7.00am flight. Murat must have been up and about at not long after 4.00am that morning to get up, travel by car to the airport and check in etc.

There seems to be, without doubt, a significant degree of urgency about Murat’s movements on 1 May. In his statement he said that he met only his mother (who fetched him from Faro airport) and Michaela that day, but since then we’ve learnt that he called at Jorge da Silva’s shop. Why did da Silva have these long discussions with Murat? Was it really just about Romigen?


Was his sudden early morning flight from Exeter to Praia da Luz just in order to get ‘Romigen’ moving, or to finalise his divorce as he claimed on another occasion? Did he really need to meet urgently with a top local lawyer for that reason? Two years later, Romigen appears to be still only a ‘shell’ company, or at most a ‘front’ for something else.

So we pose this question: did something significant happen on Monday 30 April which required him to jet out to Portugal immediately and confer with a number of powerful and well-connected people in Praia da Luz?

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The lawyers exchange signed copies of the contract

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.10 17:34

@Autumn wrote:...it is puzzling why he has never pressed charges against those you mention and also Clarence who likened him to Ian Huntley.
The solution to this puzzle lies I think in what was discussed between Brian Kennedy and his lawyer and Robert Murat and his lawyer at the Portugal meeting on Tuesday 13 November 2007.

Kennedy: "We want you to play the role of innocent victim, agree not to sue anyone like Mitchell or Tanner, and make one final speech at the Cambridge Student Union saying how beastly the press were to you and saying that the priority is to find Madeleine who was taken by a wicked abductor. How much do you want?"

Murat: "No less than six hundred grand".

Kennedy: "Done".

The pair shake hands.

The lawyers exchange signed copies of the contract.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by soulthief on 10.11.10 18:15

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong

Definitelty not cliquey here soulthief, it's just that we see you as part of the furniture now!
LoL shall take that as a compliment...I hope this is a rather fancy chesterfield sofa furniture item!

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by soulthief on 10.11.10 18:16

@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:
@soulthief wrote:lmao.


I've given myself a ticking off.

Not sure of what you mean? I was loling that its so cliquey it doesnt matter what I write no one answers or responds...guess you proved me wrong

soulthief, sorry I misread your post. I thought you were giving me a gentle reminder that I should have said "in my opinion" when you posted lmao. I now know what lmao means.

I hope I haven't offended you and I've given myself another ticking off.
No course you haven't. Crossed wires. thumbsup

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by ufercoffy on 11.11.10 18:03

• L******, the neighbour already mentioned, told him that Robert had tried to have sexual relations with her mother’s cat. The animal responded by scratching him on various parts of his body. These injuries were seen by the by the deponent given that he [Robert] had visited the Castelejo beach in Vila do Bispo on various occasions. On one of these occasions, he saw Robert scratching at excoriations. He was told by L****** that Robert had killed the cat out of spite. He also states that he witnessed a macabre episode perpetrated by Robert. He saw him once again trying to have relations, this time with the family dog,

muratfan is a fan of Robert Murat who likes to try to shag dogs and cats?



-------

eta



muratfan....doggyshag lover lol!

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Judge Mental on 11.11.10 18:38

soulthief. We are definitely not cliquey here, so please continue with your postings and do not think you are being ignored.

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Magichands on 11.11.10 21:16

candyfloss wrote:

But then how do you account for the Smith sighting on 3rd May, in which M SMith is 60/80 per cent sure it was GM?

Sorry O/T however I just wanted to add that originally (prior to BK's visit) MS didn't appear to have any doubts;

Processos, Volume XI
2871 to 2875—Smith Family Memorandum regarding contact with PJ after McCanns return home

From: DC Hughes
Sent: Thursday, 20th September, 2007 15:42
CC: Prior Stuart
Re: FW: Smith Family

This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann. For your information.

DC John Hughes

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Guest on 11.11.10 21:22

@Magichands wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

But then how do you account for the Smith sighting on 3rd May, in which M SMith is 60/80 per cent sure it was GM?

Sorry O/T however I just wanted to add that originally (prior to BK's visit) MS didn't appear to have any doubts;

Processos, Volume XI
2871 to 2875—Smith Family Memorandum regarding contact with PJ after McCanns return home

From: DC Hughes
Sent: Thursday, 20th September, 2007 15:42
CC: Prior Stuart
Re: FW: Smith Family

This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann. For your information.

DC John Hughes

Thank you Magichands, and welcome thumbsup

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Re: Robert Murat.

Post by Cheshire Cat on 11.11.10 21:26

@Magichands wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

But then how do you account for the Smith sighting on 3rd May, in which M SMith is 60/80 per cent sure it was GM?

Sorry O/T however I just wanted to add that originally (prior to BK's visit) MS didn't appear to have any doubts;

Processos, Volume XI
2871 to 2875—Smith Family Memorandum regarding contact with PJ after McCanns return home

From: DC Hughes
Sent: Thursday, 20th September, 2007 15:42
CC: Prior Stuart
Re: FW: Smith Family

This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann. For your information.


DC John Hughes



I do not believe Kennedy actually visited Martin Smith - he attempted to contact him but Mr Smith was not interested.

What Mr Smith saw was something that needed following up - as GA planned to do.

The person the Smith's saw was wearing beige trousers - beige slacks seemed to be all the rage in Praia Da Luz in May 2007!

"He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut."

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