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Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Mike on 30.08.13 8:11

@Seek truth wrote:
@susible wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:So they ate at 5.30,
Then again went to eat at 8.30?? I'd be too full, I'd have to eat much later then!
Sounds like too much eating.
No, I don't think the adults were eating, I think it was mainly for the kids, get them fed and back to the apartment, baths, stories, milk, bed  yada yada, then off to the tapas to enjoy "their" holiday
Tearful at the moment because;

It breaks my heart to know that they could have eaten together there at 5.30 with the children! Instead of later. Then meet up for a quick drink instead, spending less time out.  But no, they had to eat without them.sad1 

boohoo
I can't see the problem with not eating with the kids. I always feed my kids at 5.30 so I, or hubby, can get them bathed and ready for bed at 7, while I, or hubby, cooks the evening meal ready for peaceful chomping at 8pm. Is that wrong? i don\'t know

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Seek truth on 30.08.13 8:30

  chris wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:
@susible wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:So they ate at 5.30,
Then again went to eat at 8.30?? I'd be too full, I'd have to eat much later then!
Sounds like too much eating.
No, I don't think the adults were eating, I think it was mainly for the kids, get them fed and back to the apartment, baths, stories, milk, bed  yada yada, then off to the tapas to enjoy "their" holiday
Tearful at the moment because;

It breaks my heart to know that they could have eaten together there at 5.30 with the children! Instead of later. Then meet up for a quick drink instead, spending less time out.  But no, they had to eat without them.sad1 

boohoo
I can't see the problem with not eating with the kids. I always feed my kids at 5.30 so I, or hubby, can get them bathed and ready for bed at 7, while I, or hubby, cooks the evening meal ready for peaceful chomping at 8pm. Is that wrong? i don\'t know
What YOU do is not wrong, you're right.

But the thought, of them leaving them alone all those days, without eating TOGETHER, when they were actually at the table! on holiday, really breaks my heart.

Well that's MY heart. Not everybody's the same obviously.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 9:36

I fail to see what difference it would make whether JT left the table or not.

I stand corrected, but wasn't she late going to join the rest for dinner and it was while on the way there that she saw the swarthy chap with a leg dangling child.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Penfold on 30.08.13 9:45

K in her book says " Jane arrived first, at about 8.40, followed a few minutes later by Rachel and Matt" ... then ROB, Fiona, David and Dianne.
JT supposedly saw swarthy man at 9.15 on her way to make her first check on her children.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 10:12

OK, other way round. Thanks.


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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Guest on 30.08.13 10:18

@Penfold wrote:K in her book says " Jane arrived first, at about 8.40, followed a few minutes later by Rachel and Matt" ... then ROB, Fiona, David and Dianne.
JT supposedly saw swarthy man at 9.15 on her way to make her first check on her children.
 
In the first reports, Jane Tanner was alleged to have seen the abductor on the way to the tapas restaurant for dinner (note it also says she saw him by the open window).........
 
 
 
A friend of Madeleine's parents saw girl being carried away Timesonline
 
 
 
David Brown in Praia da Luz

May 27, 2007



A family friend of Gerry and Kate McCann has told police she saw a blonde-haired girl being carried away from an Algarve holiday apartment wrapped in a blanket at the time Madeleine is believed to have been snatched from her room.


The key witness, who is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's.

 
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Guest on 30.08.13 10:21

Also here in the Daily Mirror.........



I saw man carrying Maddie Daily Mirror (online article now removed)

 

McCann friend's guilt at 'not noticing' abduction

 

Vanessa Allen In Praia Da Luz 

28/05/2007



 The witness was on her way to join Gerry and Kate McCann for dinner near their apartment in Praia da Luz at about 9.30pm on May 3 when she saw the suspect.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Monty Heck on 30.08.13 10:43

@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:book
Having arranged for Gerry to meet the children, I opted to go for a run along the beach, where I spotted the rest of our holiday group. They saw me and shouted some words of encouragement. At least, I think that’s what they were shouting! I remember feeling fleetingly disappointed that we hadn’t known they were all heading for the beach, as it might have been nice to have joined them, especially for the kids. I wondered whether Madeleine had been OK about staying behind at Mini Club when Russ or Jane had collected Ella. I wasn’t to know at that stage that in fact they had only just arrived when I ran by. It’s hard work being a mum sometimes, fretting about the possible effects of the smallest of incidents on your children. I’m sure a lot of these worries are unfounded but it doesn’t stop us having them, and we’ll probably go on having them for the rest of our lives.
far too much detail, yet again.  Wondering about Madeleine - hard work being a Mum (You really couldn't make that up !)
Even though she'd not known before, surely when she spotted them it wasn't  too late to take her children to join them since she was concerned about Maddie missing out.  Why think about it and not do something about it ?

Too much details that do not make any sense at all.  All very contrived.   An over think from trying to imagine best way to retrofit to a false situation/scenario and spoiling it by over explained - a typical sign of something to hide.  Lying her way out.
I remember feeling fleetingly disappointed that we hadn’t known they were all heading for the beach, as it might have been nice to have joined them, especially for the kids. I wondered whether Madeleine had been OK about staying behind at Mini Club when Russ or Jane had collected Ella. I wasn’t to know at that stage that in fact they had only just arrived when I ran by.

If really concerned about the children's enjoyment in joining the rest of the group, it would have been easily ascertained that the others had only just arrived by jogging up to the restaurant and asking how long they had been there.  The Paraiso restaurant is located actually on the beach and the veranda where the Tapas sat looked out on to the beach so the jog need not have been interrupted to do so.  Instead as KMcC explains, she did nothing to find out whether it could be feasible for her children to join the group opting instead to feel fleetingly disappointed, her jog and G's tennis taking priority it would seem.  The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Penfold on 30.08.13 11:45

I think she's all 3, Monty

Witless -proved time and time again with her remarks; selfish undoubtedly. She should have felt ashamed, not disappointed, that the kids had been parked for the umpteenth time while they went off doing their own thing - whatever their own thing was that afternoon. Even if it was only a run along the beach, although I, like you, suspect another agenda.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 16:30

Because they deviate from the norm on the 3rd, breaking away from their friends and group activities, it must set alarm bell ringing for the investigators.
Anything unusual activities breaking away from routine raises suspicions. Doubtless the Police would have figured out when Madeleine was last seen alive by independent witness.

Not that many alibis for Kate and Gerry on day time of the 3rd actually. Apart from taking the children to creche (all three allegedly) and taking them to the swimming pool in the afternoon (last photo), during the interim hours Gerry was playing tennis randomly with different people throughout the morning and afternoon (so two alibis at most) and again MEN's Tennis in the evening with his travel buddies (cant rely on this lot of alibis).
Kate's movement on the 3rd might be bit more difficult to verify as there is no alibi when she spent time in the apt doing washing .....?

You would have thought that generally people have plan for family day and hence the reason for breaking away from group activities.
If it wasnt to spend time with children bringing them out for family day, then it begs the question why the Mccanns need the day to themselves.
They kept the children routine on the 3rd, left them in the Creche, that is not changed.
It just does not make sense that the couple had the day to themselves, away from friends and children, and yet went separate way mostly and did their own things.

Gerry had back-to-back Tennis morning and afternoon, if that is believable, while Kate drifted from doing one thing to the other independent of Gerry.
She had private time out during the day then went jogging in the evening having instructed Gerry to collect the children (believable?)
yet she states she was concerned about Maddie missing out ?
You have to wonder why she was not pro-active. Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.
She'd all day. Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.


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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by PeterMac on 30.08.13 17:18

Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
This is beginning to crystallise nicely.
Overemphasis on being seen in places she would not normally be seen - the beach.  You can't run on that beach, you can barely walk.  The sand is incredibly fine and your foot gains no purchase. even the wet bit by the sea is soft. It is also a long way from the apartment, so you would have to jog down through the town on a very twisty route to get there, rather than along the more natural routes they took in the months that followed.  Runners do not like going round corners, which is why they choose main roads. Sharp corners mean slowing down and then accelerating, and is punishing on the joints
So - if we assume she was on the beach - what was her purpose ? To be able to establish that no one else was at Tea ?
Tea, No witnesses, stated and then stated again for emphasis - why ?
Signing out of the creche - by Kate  !  Conveniently forgotten, possible a mess up in the master plan.
Last photo - to prove M was alive at lunch time, but this photo was only released a fortnight later. why not on the night, when we got the very old photo on the A5 poster.
Contrived visit by DP to the apartment for no noticeable purpose, contradictory reports of details from KM and DP  -   very possibly completely untrue.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Penfold on 30.08.13 17:34

@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
This is beginning to crystallise nicely.
Overemphasis on being seen in places she would not normally be seen - the beach.  You can't run on that beach, you can barely walk.  The sand is incredibly fine and your foot gains no purchase. even the wet bit by the sea is soft. It is also a long way from the apartment, so you would have to jog down through the town on a very twisty route to get there, rather than along the more natural routes they took in the months that followed.  Runners do not like going round corners, which is why they choose main roads. Sharp corners mean slowing down and then accelerating, and is punishing on the joints
So - if we assume she was on the beach - what was her purpose ? To be able to establish that no one else was at Tea ?
Tea, No witnesses, stated and then stated again for emphasis - why ?
Signing out of the creche - by Kate  !  Conveniently forgotten, possible a mess up in the master plan.
Last photo - to prove M was alive at lunch time, but this photo was only released a fortnight later. why not on the night, when we got the very old photo on the A5 poster.
Contrived visit by DP to the apartment for no noticeable purpose, contradictory reports of details from KM and DP  -   very possibly completely untrue.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Was that one of the watches that they didn't have with them, according to Clarence?

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 17:42

@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
This is beginning to crystallise nicely.
Overemphasis on being seen in places she would not normally be seen - the beach.  You can't run on that beach, you can barely walk.  The sand is incredibly fine and your foot gains no purchase. even the wet bit by the sea is soft. It is also a long way from the apartment, so you would have to jog down through the town on a very twisty route to get there, rather than along the more natural routes they took in the months that followed.  Runners do not like going round corners, which is why they choose main roads. Sharp corners mean slowing down and then accelerating, and is punishing on the joints
So - if we assume she was on the beach - what was her purpose ? To be able to establish that no one else was at Tea ?
Tea, No witnesses, stated and then stated again for emphasis - why ?
Signing out of the creche - by Kate  !  Conveniently forgotten, possible a mess up in the master plan.
Last photo - to prove M was alive at lunch time, but this photo was only released a fortnight later. why not on the night, when we got the very old photo on the A5 poster.
Contrived visit by DP to the apartment for no noticeable purpose, contradictory reports of details from KM and DP  -   very possibly completely untrue.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Agree, Definitely worth more work.

Believe the PJ knew it too back then.

What ever happened to Madeleine happened earlier than reported and that precipitates Mccanns solo activities on the 3rd.

The Yard couldnt have missed the obvious that sticks out like a sore thumb.


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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Monty Heck on 30.08.13 17:49

@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Overemphasis indeed and too many time details all of which adds up to one rather bizarre day.  Children in creche all day long, husband playing tennis like a man possessed and K moaning about people leaving her childen out of the fun, when she herself admits she did nothing at all for their benefit that day.  When she did spot the group together, still nothing but continues a jog which, as PM points out would be quite an unpleasant one.  Most people who jog in PDL do so along the promenade and along the cliff path leading out to Burgau, but these aren't most people.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 18:34

@Monty Heck wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Overemphasis indeed and too many time details all of which adds up to one rather bizarre day.  Children in creche all day long, husband playing tennis like a man possessed and K moaning about people leaving her childen out of the fun, when she herself admits she did nothing at all for their benefit that day.  When she did spot the group together, still nothing but continues a jog which, as PM points out would be quite an unpleasant one.  Most people who jog in PDL do so along the promenade and along the cliff path leading out to Burgau, but these aren't most people.
What's saying the jog is as fictional as the Payne's visit ? Just another fabrication to create alibi. No independent witness saw Kate at the beach jogging or otherwise.

Did the group friends really see her JOGGING ? at the BEACH ?  

IIRC one of the nannies reports seeing Kate in her track suits around the the Tapas Bar area, assuming she'd come in from a jog.
Assuming is not the same as witnessing her doing the activity  AnywayTapas Bar is not the Beach.  

So WAS she truly at the beach ?

I think the overemphasis and unnecessary details about her running thoughts are just invention to fit an agenda.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Hicks on 30.08.13 19:36

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Overemphasis indeed and too many time details all of which adds up to one rather bizarre day.  Children in creche all day long, husband playing tennis like a man possessed and K moaning about people leaving her childen out of the fun, when she herself admits she did nothing at all for their benefit that day.  When she did spot the group together, still nothing but continues a jog which, as PM points out would be quite an unpleasant one.  Most people who jog in PDL do so along the promenade and along the cliff path leading out to Burgau, but these aren't most people.
What's saying the jog is as fictional as the Payne's visit ? Just another fabrication to create alibi. No independent witness saw Kate at the beach jogging or otherwise.

Did the group friends really see her JOGGING ? at the BEACH ?  

IIRC one of the nannies reports seeing Kate in her track suits around the the Tapas Bar area, assuming she'd come in from a jog.
Assuming is not the same as witnessing her doing the activity  AnywayTapas Bar is not the Beach.  

So WAS she truly at the beach ?

I think the overemphasis and unnecessary details about her running thoughts are just invention to fit an agenda.
IIRC JT says in her statement, 4rd May, that the group saw KM at 5.15 jogging along the beach.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 19:47

@Hicks wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Quote from two posts ago - The question is, is this someone who is witless/selfish or was there another reason for keeping her distance from the group that afternoon.
@aiyoyo wrote:  You have to wonder why she was not pro-active.  Why wait for friends to include her when she could have taken her children out herself.  
She'd all day.  Unless she was too BUSY doing something very crucial.
Overemphasis and too many time details in the movements, exact times 5:30, 6pm. 6:30, then 7, then 9;04 BY HIS WATCH    (Real witnesses rarely do this. They can time things by the end of the Match, or the beginning of Star trek, or shortly after the rain started, but mostly no closer than this, and on holiday it is most unlikely)

And essentially too much Stuff crammed in to one parent's day, and too little in the other.
Worth some more work I think.
Overemphasis indeed and too many time details all of which adds up to one rather bizarre day.  Children in creche all day long, husband playing tennis like a man possessed and K moaning about people leaving her childen out of the fun, when she herself admits she did nothing at all for their benefit that day.  When she did spot the group together, still nothing but continues a jog which, as PM points out would be quite an unpleasant one.  Most people who jog in PDL do so along the promenade and along the cliff path leading out to Burgau, but these aren't most people.
What's saying the jog is as fictional as the Payne's visit ? Just another fabrication to create alibi. No independent witness saw Kate at the beach jogging or otherwise.

Did the group friends really see her JOGGING ? at the BEACH ?  

IIRC one of the nannies reports seeing Kate in her track suits around the the Tapas Bar area, assuming she'd come in from a jog.
Assuming is not the same as witnessing her doing the activity  AnywayTapas Bar is not the Beach.  

So WAS she truly at the beach ?

I think the overemphasis and unnecessary details about her running thoughts are just invention to fit an agenda.
IIRC JT says in her statement, 4rd May, that the group saw KM at 5.15 jogging along the beach.
There is no independent witness outside the group though !

There is JT to corroborate her jogging story, and Payne to corroborate the visit ie witnessing that Maddie was alive and well ...

All witnessing seems to be within the Group. That's going to be work for the Police....

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Guest on 30.08.13 20:27

I think the PJ sussed it out from the beginning. They just didn't have solid proof. With present developments, they may have ....

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by windchime on 30.08.13 20:47

If the waiter claims he saw GM playing with MBM at 5pm on the beach then perhaps he did as the playground is out of shot from the cameras?  The 'family' eating could have been the friends eating or booking a table and getting organised and he got confused.  If you look closely at the cctv images on the McCann Files at 17:31:44 both FP & DW are looking outside and most of the group are missing therefore one could assume they are watching everyone playing on the beach.  What really got me is looking at 17:38:08 and also 17:46:07 there is a woman outside of the restaurant on the beach who could be anyone but looks suspiciously like someone we all know - what are your thoughts?

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by aiyoyo on 30.08.13 20:53

Châtelaine wrote:I think the PJ sussed it out from the beginning. They just didn't have solid proof. With present developments, they may have ....
My thoughts too.

The PJ sussed it out back then but could not progress further because of non cooperation of main players.
I believe with the involvement of the Yard the discontinued process has move forward and still progressing with developments that PJ and Yard can realise their common goal. If they are working carefully in unity there can only be one collective outcome.




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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Hicks on 30.08.13 21:20

@windchime wrote:If the waiter claims he saw GM playing with MBM at 5pm on the beach then perhaps he did as the playground is out of shot from the cameras?  The 'family' eating could have been the friends eating or booking a table and getting organised and he got confused.  If you look closely at the cctv images on the McCann Files at 17:31:44 both FP & DW are looking outside and most of the group are missing therefore one could assume they are watching everyone playing on the beach.  What really got me is looking at 17:38:08 and also 17:46:07 there is a woman outside of the restaurant on the beach who could be anyone but looks suspiciously like someone we all know - what are your thoughts?
Yes, quite possibly, well spotted!

What about 17:59 : 50? Could that be the twins on the beach?

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by tigger on 31.08.13 10:53

[url=/t5062-the-events-from-9pm-3rd-may-to-end-of-4th-may-as-told-by-the-main-witnesses#110032]The events from 9pm 3RD MAY to end of 4TH MAY as told by the main witnesses[/url]
  [url=/u4]Tony Bennett[/url] on Mon May 21, 2012 8:57 am


This excellent analysis of the key witness statements about events from 9pm on 3 May until the end of 4 May was compiled in, I think, early 2009 by Kazlux, astro and Joana Morais, and can be found still, I believe, on Joana Morais' blog. It may well be on the mccannfiles site as well. I reproduce it here as a research tool for this forum. In doing so, I make no comment on it, fearing that any comment which does not unequivocally back the McCanns' account of events could be deemed libelllous and a contempt of court. So the information below (in several parts) can be used by McCann-sceptics and McCann-believers alike to support their respective understandings of these events:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

21H20, Executive Chef A. E. G. F. P. heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;

Property manager B. J. J. W. heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

Dinner finished at around 21H45 and some minutes passed where waiter R. A.E D. L. O. looked towards the table but saw no one—his colleague told him that all the guests of that table left rapidly and abruptly. He remembers having heard shouts in the direction of the McCann apartment;

Between 21.30 and 22: Fitness instructor/Waiter J. R. S. went over to the table and joked with (Diane Webster): “They’ve left you alone?” She responded more of less with these words: “No, they went to see if the little girl was there.” I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleine’s father, running to the pool and to the children’s play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Monty Heck on 31.08.13 12:53

@PeterMac wrote:book
Having arranged for Gerry to meet the children, I opted to go for a run along the beach, where I spotted the rest of our holiday group. They saw me and shouted some words of encouragement. At least, I think that’s what they were shouting! I remember feeling fleetingly disappointed that we hadn’t known they were all heading for the beach, as it might have been nice to have joined them, especially for the kids. I wondered whether Madeleine had been OK about staying behind at Mini Club when Russ or Jane had collected Ella. I wasn’t to know at that stage that in fact they had only just arrived when I ran by. It’s hard work being a mum sometimes, fretting about the possible effects of the smallest of incidents on your children. I’m sure a lot of these worries are unfounded but it doesn’t stop us having them, and we’ll probably go on having them for the rest of our lives.
far too much detail, yet again.  Wondering about Madeleine - hard work being a Mum (You really couldn't make that up !)
As others have said, interesting that the only corroboration for this incident comes from within the T9.  As ever it's unclear where KMcC was and where the group were when the words of encouragement were shouted but distance apart is implied.  Had this taken place when the group were at the Paraiso (as the timing seems to suggest) would there not be corroboration from the CCTV?  The group shouting encouragement across a fair distance would have caused quite a disturbance which other diners/restaurant staff would not have failed to notice, yet there is nothing in the files to support that this incident happened.  KMcC therefore has no disinterested corroboration for her statement that she was at the beach at the time she claimed to have been.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by Sceneset on 31.08.13 13:05

I haven't seen those statements before Tigger, thank you so much. 

So there are three independent witnesses who state that they saw a commotion/ people searching re a child being missing up to 40 minutes before Kate said she did her last check. 

Scotland Yard must surely now have to question the whole group based on this alone as it is a huge time discrepancy, especially as there is an admittance of a watch amongst the group as Gerry was so certain that one timing was at 9.04 'by his watch'.

On this alone the groups' statements alongside these make me incredulous to think that the groups timings have been accepted as common knowledge so readily.

I feel more hope  for the future outcome now than I have ever had in the past.

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Re: Jane Tanner didn't leave the table that night - Joseph Moura

Post by tigger on 31.08.13 13:36

@Sceneset wrote:I haven't seen those statements before Tigger, thank you so much. 

So there are three independent witnesses who state that they saw a commotion/ people searching re a child being missing up to 40 minutes before Kate said she did her last check. 

Scotland Yard must surely now have to question the whole group based on this alone as it is a huge time discrepancy, especially as there is an admittance of a watch amongst the group as Gerry was so certain that one timing was at 9.04 'by his watch'.

On this alone the groups' statements alongside these make me incredulous to think that the groups timings have been accepted as common knowledge so readily.

I feel more hope  for the future outcome now than I have ever had in the past.
Have a look at the topic, I hope the URL works in the link above as it's very frustrating that I seem to be unable to copy web addresses. Otherwise just put the title in the search box.
Glad you're optimistic!

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