The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by kangdang on 14.09.10 23:27




Reporter Sandra Feligueras for RTP television asks the McCann's whether they gave the children something to help them sleep. Gerry denies it.

David wrote me and asked me to take a look at the above short video- and it is a good one!

There is something we always say when looking for deception- CLUSTERS one "hotspot" does not make a liar, but when we see three or more things that do not match what is being said we have a good idea that there is deception.

Gerry states that he is not going to comment then proceeds to comment- there are limits to what he is willing to say. Why is he placing limits on what he is willing to say?

Whenever someone uses words like "absolutely" when denying something we are put on guard. When someone feels the need to "pump up" their denial they are not confident in what they are saying. A honest person could simply say no....

When answering he is not looking directly at the interviewer and actually turns his head away, but notice the eye dart to the interviewer- people will do this to check how their lies are being accepted. When lying we need to gauge if we need to be more on guard, or if confrontation is likely, or if we are getting away with the lie...

Then he touches his ear. I have seen this many times when someone is saying something -or hearing something- they do not like to hear. He doesn't like hearing his answer.

His wife is also not acting confident, or outraged by the question... she is guarded.

Another body language analysis on this short video clip

Sedative Interview

Interviewer question

“On that evening did you give to your kids something like calpol to help them sleep?”

 

Gerry McCann -

“(swallow, els&dr)(Intake of breath) you know we’re not gonna (head back) comment, on anything (ec) but you know there is absolutely (head back). No way we use any sedative drugs (head down, ec, head shake, scratch behind l earlobe, looks back at I, slight smile) or anything like that en (ldr, rhb) you know we’ll we have (ldr) co-operated with the police (ldr) we’ll answer any queries ermm (ldr)…any tests that they want to do en.”



First cluster – Swallow, eyes look sideways & down right, intake of breath

Firstly, the Adam’s apple is emotionally responsive (i.e. it reflects visceral or gut feelings). Acting through the vagus nerve (cranial X) emotional tension from the brain’s limbic system causes unconscious muscular contractions of the sternothyroid, thyrohyoid and associated inferior pharyngeal constrictor muscles of the Adam’s apple. This movement is evident as the muscles contract to swallow, to throat-clear or to vocalize an objection that may be left unsaid. This swallowing movement indicates feelings of anxiety or embarrassment.

I find it hard to imagine why Gerry would become anxious or embarrassed by this question (angry, hurt, yes), unless of course these feeling were stimulated at the prospect of having to lie in which case it would indicate that either he, or someone else, had given the children calpol or other sedatives to help them sleep on that night.

Secondly, eye movements are largely controlled by the midbrains Oculomotor, Trochlear and Abducens nerves (cranial III, IV & VI). According to neurological research, eye movement both laterally and vertically seems to be associated with activating different parts of the brain. Generally, when eyes look right it is indicative of the brain working at constructing, up right eye movements indicate construction of visual images, sideways right eye movements indicates construction of audio. When eyes look left it is indicative of the brain recalling or accessing memory. Up left eye movements, indicate recalling of visual images, sideways left eye movements indicate recalling of audio. When eyes look down left it indicates internal dialogue and down right indicates that a person is thinking about the question as they recall smell, feelings or taste.

In the video clip, we see Gerry look sideways right and down right. He looks sideways right first. This indicates that he might be constructing something auditory. This might include for example constructing what he will say or could say to the question., or he may be assembling the question in his mind due to the fact that he has not heard it before. We also see this movement directly followed by a right down eye movement. This motion indicates that Gerry is thinking about the question and his feelings. I am uncertain as to whether officials, or anyone else to that matter, had asked Gerry about the use of sedatives before this interview took place; hence, suggestions of Gerry constructing a lie must be posited with caution.

Still, the answer to the question should be easy, either a yes or no. Moreover, when taking into account the media coverage of the sedative use issue I would think that the answer should be well known to Gerry McCann, surely someone must have alerted him to the “ludicrous” suggestions being made in the media!; thus, the answer should be in his near term memory, this would not require him to search for an answer (in this case eye movements would be barely be visible).

Thirdly, the intake of breath that we hear Gerry making may be nothing more than pre-speech in-breath. Interestingly though, the pre-speech in-breath is often used by an array of professionals to add an air of authority and credibility to the qualifying subsequent spoken words. It is also a typical expression of ordinary conscious anxiety and tensions reflected in other kinesic behaviours including the aforesaid.

From this cluster I think it would be fair to say that the question “On that evening did you give to your kids something like calpol to help them sleep?” aroused emotion, albeit anxiety, embarrassment or stress, or a combination of the three. If Gerry did not administer calpol or sedatives to the children that evening (or knows with certainty that no one else had) then I see no reason for the arousal of emotions witnessed.

Second Cluster- Head down, eyes closed, head shake, scratch left ear lobe, looks back at Interviewer but does not raise head, slight smile, look down right, left hand brush away from body.
Observed during “No way we use any sedative drugs”
 
The head down motion is an automatic escape movement designed to remove a body part or parts from danger. It underlies many negative and submissive nonverbal signs (e.g., feelings of guilt or shame or cues of fear or submissiveness). It is suggested that bending motions of the head (and trunk) are neurologically “simple” as NVC signs. As they are unaffected, unintended, and unconscious; thus, they are among the most reliable indicators of mood. Gerry’s eyes also gaze down in conjunction with the head down motion. Gaze-down often reflects guilt, shame, submissiveness or deception. These feelings pass from the limbic system and basal ganglia to the midbrain’s oculomotor (cranial III) and other cranial nerves. Acting in concert, the eye muscles pull together in a downward or sideward eye movement, depending on the mood.

Gerry’s words “No way we use any sedative drugs” appear to arouse feelings of guilt, shame and/or deception. (Note – I rule submissiveness out firstly, as Gerry’s baseline demeanour does not suggest that he is submissive; secondly, as a result of my findings in the first cluster; thirdly, he hardly submits to answering the question does he?) If he is feeling guilty or shameful then the question “what about” must be asked. If he is telling the truth, then he has no reason to feel ashamed or guilty; the answer is simple, he is lying.

However, how big is the lie? Look at the question again, “On that evening did you give to your kids something like calpol to help them sleep?” We should note that he does not anywhere in his answer state that they did not give the children sedative drugs that night, nor does he deny the use of calpol. In fact, what he says is “there is absolutely no way we use any sedative drugs or anything like that”!

Gerry also closes his eyes when he uses the head and eye down motion. When this cue is used during or shortly after a verbal denial, it usually shows that the speaker does not believe his or her own remarks. As true statements are normally given with a confident, face to face or level gaze, which might be held for longer than three seconds. In addition, Gerry also shakes his head in conjunction with the aforementioned NVC signs. Interestingly, the headshake is associated with cognitive dissonance and this is where feelings of uncomfortable tension arise because of holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. It should be noted that dissonance is often strong when we believe something about ourselves and then do something against that belief. The headshake is also linked to uncertainty and is gut reactive; thus, this motion originates from the limbic system, which stimulates the special visceral accessory nerve (cranial XL).

The scratching of the ear lobe is a self-touch cue aimed at relieving stress and/or providing comfort. It reflects arousal of the SNS’s flight or fight response. Ear lobe (and nose) scratching results from blood vessel engorgement whilst in this state; thus, this cue is indicative of increased anxiety and may signal deception, disagreement, fear or uncertainty.

We also see Gerry glance back at the interviewer without raising his head; this method is often used in the act of deception to gauge the response of those being addressed. (I.e. it is used to see if the listener is swallowing the lie.)

Gerry also appears to produce a slight smirk, almost a look of amusement. In NVC, smirking is a sign of contempt for the gullibility of the person(s) who are being duped. Smirking is also indicative of someone having something further to share. For example, when Susan Smith stated that wherever her children were she hoped they were ok, she smirked then smiled…she knew where they were and what state they were in; she knew they were dead – she had something further to share.

Gerry raises his left hand and makes a tight brush away motion from the body at neck height. What is interesting is that this motion signifies the brushing away or dismissing of a subject or the spoken words in the event of deception. Furthermore, the tighter the hand or arm movement is to the body the more indicative it is of deception. It should be also be noted that we do not ordinarily make conscious choices about the hand or arm gestures as we are usually too busy talking to notice or care.

This cluster is certainly indicative of deception as Gerry exhibits a combination of deceptive signals that are in agreement with each other: I cannot find one NVC signal that could cast significant doubt on this assertion.

My conclusion is that Gerry McCann fails to answer the question, choosing instead to skirt around the question in a somewhat defensive manner: Gerry McCann is engaging in the act of deception.

Question

“On that evening did you give to your kids something like calpol to help them sleep?”

Truthful answer

“No I (we) did not” or “Yes I (we) did”

Note – when we are truthful about something we tend to be direct and confident in our spoken word, our NVC mirrors this.

Yet Gerry McCann answers

“You know we’re not gonna comment on anything but you know there is absolutely . No way we use any sedative drugs or anything like that en you know we’ll we have co-operated with the police we’ll answer any queries ermm …any tests that they want to do en…”


Now an LVA 6.50 analysis of the sedative interview



It seems these three analysis were made by different persons at different times...can they all be so wrong?

Source
http://www.spyingforlying.com/2010/06/gerry-mccanns-denial-of-use-of-cold.html
http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/nvc-analysis-of-mccann-sedative-interview/

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.

kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 38
Location : Corona Mountain

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by Autumn on 15.09.10 16:46

Very interesting Kandang. One thing that has always puzzled me is why the McCanns weren't advised by their spokesman against doing interviews. Their body language, expressions, the way they talk and the general manner in which they have conducted themselves are, for many, strong signals that the McCanns are not telling the truth. The early interviews in particular are very revealing where you can see lots of ear scratching, furtive glances and odd gestures. In later interviews, it seemed that the McCanns had been coached or advised by others, they seemed more aware of their hand movements and their gestures looked deliberate and rehearsed. Kate, in particular, has had problems with her flailing arms when describing the 'abduction scenario' - nowadays, when interviewed, chances are she will be sat there like someone has shoved a ram-rod up her backside, grabbing on to Gerry's crotch for dear life. What they don't seem to realize is that they still come over as guilty as hell and that no amount of coaching will hide the truth from us.


Autumn

Posts : 2603
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2009-11-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by kangdang on 15.09.10 17:35

I agree regarding the coaching Autumn.

The difficulty with body language is that akin to the dogs, it is at best indicative and helps build up a picture of what may have happened, alas without hard evidence to back it up it is worth very little. Although both do provide detectives with leads to follow.

What is clear in the OP is that the issue of sedative use is a hot spot, Amaral may have been correct.

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.

kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 38
Location : Corona Mountain

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by sharonl on 15.09.10 18:03

Very interesting analysis there Kandang

but who was on the medication then?

In Portuguese sorry but watch the pics



Quick Summary:

Images of the McCanns second apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal. The Portuguese police searches the McCanns apartment and finds several sleeping medicaments, confidential CEOP manuals, books about murder like The Interpretation of Murder, and smell of corpse in the cuddle toy which belonged to Madeleine. Video released by Spanish Antena 3 TV. 10 September 2008

Translation of the videos to follow.

Antena3 Article: The McCanns kept numerous medicines which provoked sleepiness

New Exclusive Images of the Report
Madrid, Espejo Público [an Antena3 TV Show]

Given the repeated denial of the British police to send different reports about the married couple, the Portuguese police made a profile searching throughout the McCanns second house, in Praia da Luz.

This way, officers accompanied by two police psychologists, carry out a meticulous search in the main bedroom [the parents' bedroom].

In a case of abduction, the family circle is always investigated. The police were surprised on having seen the bedroom. Kate seems to be mourning. In her small bedside table are many photos of Maddy [sic] surrounded with rosaries and a Bible, which had bookmarked, with a picture a fragment of the Old Testament in which it could be read: " "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die" [2 Samuel 12:14]".

At the other side of the bed, on Gerry's bedside table the attention is given to, between other books, "The interpretation of Murder ". In the study [office space] where Gerry writes his blog and where he works at the campaign to find his daughter, another surprise: CEOP manuals, books with access restricted to police and governmental entities.

Before this discovery, Mark Harrison, the British police officer sent from the United Kingdom to coordinate the case, does not give credit. He wonders how many married couples had access to these manuals, which are exclusively reserved to police officers.

The Portuguese Officers confirm in this way their suspicions regarding the contacts which are provided to the McCanns, which for them is translated in a big political pressure that to their judgement, limits the investigation.

Also, the police find numerous medicines, which they examine in search of these sedatives that they fear that were given to the children by the McCanns on the night of the 3rd of May. They also register the side effects caused by the medicines that they find, and verify that the majority of them provoke sleepiness. They examine as well the drawers, closets, as well as the twins' room and that no longer sleep in cots but in beds.

The final report of the process, in contrast to the images included in the same report, state that independently of the curious and morbid conclusions, the only fact that one can determine, as such, is the disparate behavior of the couple at the time of facing Madeleine's disappearance.


____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron

sharonl


Posts : 3565
Reputation : 419
Join date : 2009-12-29

View user profile http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by littlepixie on 15.09.10 18:10

It has been said that the medication was Mr Healy's but was Mr Healy there that week? I presume the film above was filmed the day before Jon Corner filmed the Huelva footage. I don't remember seeing Kates parents in that footage.



littlepixie

Posts : 1340
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2009-11-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by sharonl on 15.09.10 18:25


____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron

sharonl


Posts : 3565
Reputation : 419
Join date : 2009-12-29

View user profile http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by Judge Mental on 15.09.10 19:30

If one were of a mind that did not willingly tell the truth, one could be sure one's speech and body language would eventually betray one's mind. It is pure folly for any human being to think they can control such things, as we are but mere animals under the skin.

Truth is bright and will out itself, even if it is deliberately kept hidden in the recesses of the darkest mind.


Judge Mental

Posts : 2764
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-17
Age : 79
Location : Chambers

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by aiyoyo on 16.09.10 3:32

Spying for Lying! Oh boy oh boy, what a title!

Where to start? From the outset?
'They've taken her'? or 'The shuttle was up' or 'we were only 50 yards away' oh the list is endless.....

They have lied with as many teeth in their mouth from the word 'GO'......ready, get set, go.......and havent stop since..........

'Doing interviews is taking their lies beyond human decency.
They deliberately court exposure to maintain their lies and in the process dug themselves a bigger hole.
The guilty body language can't be more self consciously obvious on display than after they were named suspects. Once their suspected involvement were made public, that must cause them certain uneasiness (human's involuntarily nature than anything else) playing their lair role knowing their no longer 'good name' is under close scrutiny by the public.
Nonetheless, that did not deter them from going onto limelight trips to display their questionable reputation by defending it with even more lies at the same time subjecting their body language to scrutiny.
Was that brazen beyond sense, stupid thinking they can fool people, evil euphoria (sp) or desperate need to self preserve because plenty at stake plus threat of losing liberty of movement urging them on, not forgetting fraud charges bringing it up from behind the rear that motivate their urge to continue to keep the charade? or was it a bigger conspiracy?

I have always felt that if it was a conspiracy there wouldnt be as much need for them to come onto the public arena to defend their rotten reputation, because their co-conspirators have plenty to fear and lose, even if not in equal measures as mccanns, they will nonetheless have things at stake with repercussion waiting round the corner..

If that being the case, then logic dictates no one sharing in the plot will lift the lids. There is not as much need on mccanns part to maintain their charade so ardently and fervently as they did so publicly because others in it with them are even more obliged to keep it under total darkness for obvious reason.
Therefore I am inclined to think there is no great conspiracy by the government per se, but that they'd got themselves caught up in the mccanns web like spiders, hence in the known because they were unwittingly sucked in by mccanns spins, or in other words - fooled by the mccanns so to speak.
It must be difficult and too late for those inadvertently drawn into that shites to unentangle from it without risking some repercussions.

Of course, views are divided as to what the government role were in the mccanns cover up or levels of cover up?
Mccanns were incredibly lucky with having connections, but once that connections can no longer be called upon at snap of fingers, would it be too late to unearth the truth well buried beneath piled to skyhigh layers of lies. Not easy task that is for sure.....unless something gives first. I am a firm believer no one's luck holds out forever.

Their body language behavourial difference cant be more glaringly contrasting pre and post arguidoed.
Before they were named suspects, they'd behaved so snugly believing they would never be found out and went round grinning like cheshire cat; ;megawatt smile in fact, as evident in the MBM 4th b/day walkabout - they behaved like celebrities there clutching flowers, well wishers' cards, and walking among the crowd totally bliss to receive all that attention; that one is compelled to ask was MBM's plight in their thought in all that? They'd relegated her to the back burners over themselves even at that early stage - so what can be glimpsed from that behaviour of theirs? Innocents? worried about MBM? Worried about being caught out? Expected to be adolated with pot of fund money waiting at the end of the rainbow? Their behaviour is so open to questions all not in a good way. Let's face it most parents would be devastated and broken particularly so since the crowd gestures have made it more poignantly sad and brought it home that MBM is no longer around to celebrate another b/day. But how did the pair react? Blissful collecting blessings.

Then the BBC rooftop interview, KM appeared in blissful hysterics as if high on substance or blissful from honeymoon. Their behaviour pre and post suspects status was as contrasting as day and night, and in most post arguidoed interviews they looked contrived; with KM looking perpetually rag-crinkly face in a false attempt at crocodile tears; accompanied by GM infamous 'tilt of the head' arrogant demeanour.
She wears a 'look how pitiful we are look' while he wears a 'dont you dare disbelieve us look'. Both puke inducing. Behaviour of innocents?
If it ever come to that (a trial), body language experts, psychologists and psychoanalysts, would have a field day.

I suppose if one were to say 'their lies can be spotted from the moon' it wouldnt be an understatement!






aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by kangdang on 16.09.10 7:31

If it ever come to that (a trial), body language experts, psychologists and psychoanalysts, would have a field day.

Shame none of have had the guts to have field in the past 3 years

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.

kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 38
Location : Corona Mountain

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by Autumn on 16.09.10 10:47

Well said aiyoyo, and straight from the heart clapping1 clapping1 clapping1
And lets not forget about the role of our wonderful press in all of this. Are they scared to publish the facts about this case for fear of being sued or have they too been succoured into the McCanns evil web of lies and deceipt?

Autumn

Posts : 2603
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2009-11-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by aiyoyo on 16.09.10 12:01

@kangdang wrote:
If it ever come to that (a trial), body language experts, psychologists and psychoanalysts, would have a field day.

Shame none of have had the guts to have field in the past 3 years

I believe a German psychiatrist did give an interview on their negative body language.

You're right, no one had the opportunity to do it in Court (yet?)

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by kangdang on 16.09.10 14:13

@kangdang wrote:
If it ever come to that (a trial), body language experts, psychologists and psychoanalysts, would have a field day.

Shame none of have had the guts to have field in the past 3 years


laugh laugh my goodness what a fine example of my brains functioning early in the morning, I can't even remember what I was attempting to write....No wonder I often burn toast and make cups of gravy instead of coffee.

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.

kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 38
Location : Corona Mountain

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Spying for Lying: Gerry McCann's denial of use of cold medicine

Post by kangdang on 16.09.10 14:14

@aiyoyo wrote:
@kangdang wrote:
If it ever come to that (a trial), body language experts, psychologists and psychoanalysts, would have a field day.

Shame none of have had the guts to have field in the past 3 years

I believe a German psychiatrist did give an interview on their negative body language.

You're right, no one had the opportunity to do it in Court (yet?)



clapping1 clapping1 for managing to reply to my early morning post, I don't know how you did it!

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.

kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 38
Location : Corona Mountain

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum