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Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Advocatus on 13.01.12 20:10

Being very careful here, mods delete if appropriate

"Xx xx was convicted

[Ok the word is convicted!!!

So if CATS has been sanitised by an insider with access, figure out where xx xx was living on 2002 and figure out which local court would've convicted xx xx]

"for child sex abuses in 2002, althought the evidence has been hacked and emptied from the case file by someone who has access to the National Sex Offenders Register, namely Xxx xxx though the Xxxx mainframe connected to every police station crime files in the UK, the reference for this conviction still exists in the judiscial reference files

[An FOI to them?]

"and confiemes that xx xx was placed on the Child Sex Offenders Register following conviction in court, and is still on that register today! ."


FOI to the cold sex offenders register.

Although if a career/pension has been put on the line to hack one system, may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb...

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"One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't." - Gerry McCann: Police CATS (Case Administration and Tracking System) Number 19309 - NB: The 19309 number is still on the Police database, but all data within the file appears to have been ERASED...

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by jd on 13.01.12 21:07


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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Pershing36 on 14.01.12 1:07

@Advocatus wrote:
That simple check could take their investigations in an entirely different direction if gerry's file was created before 3 may 07.



I'm on a train getting jostled a bit, so hard to research, but it would be a good excersise surely for the MF to submit 2 FOI requests

For 19308 and 19310

See what dates of creation/filing, if any, are discovered?


It is alleged at quality wristbands that child abuses were recorded on 19309 on 2002

Where was GM working/studying back then

This is the way to some idea of dates. If you could get 19307 to 19311 and they relate to the same police 'operation' then it would be very unusual for this to just slip in randomly.

Maybe then it could trigger an investigation if it looks like the file has been lost.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Guest on 14.01.12 8:06

Stewie wrote:
@jd wrote:Ive read somewhere a few times that this file was created in 2002

there is more info and links here:

http://goodqualitywristbands.blogspot.com/2012/01/did-jim-gamble-sanitize-gerry-mccanns.html

The registration number itself could provide a clue for anyone with access to the system. If the numbers are assigned automatically then the created date of the files with registration numbers either side of gerry's one would give you an approximate creation date for gerry's file. If SY had the will I'm sure they would be authorised to have access to the system...

That simple check could take their investigations in an entirely different direction if gerry's file was created before 3 may 07.


Exactly Pershing.. That's what I think - the batch of case files surrounding gerry's could reveal a lot of information - particularly the creation dates.... I suspect due to the sensitive nature of their contents, they couldn't be revealed via an FOI request so would probably only be revealed to police with the relevant powers and authorisation - SY perhaps??

Whilst they're at it, it might prove useful to look at Gerry's credit card purchasing history....I'm sure they'd have the power to do that aswell..

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Pershing36 on 14.01.12 12:04


I see that person Sines has commented on this article copying a pasting the background check. Does Sines have more information than us? He mentioned the word 'Argus', other than the newspaper and a German company that made parts for the V1 bomb I have no idea what he/she is referring too.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by jd on 14.01.12 12:54

@Pershing36 wrote:

I see that person Sines has commented on this article copying a pasting the background check. Does Sines have more information than us? He mentioned the word 'Argus', other than the newspaper and a German company that made parts for the V1 bomb I have no idea what he/she is referring too.

I read this too. I think that Sines meant 'Argos' and misspelt it to Argus. This operation was called Task Force Argos

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by uppatoffee on 14.01.12 13:04

Taskforce Argos appears to be part of Queensland Police Dept that specialises in tracking down child abuse online and prosecuting. They apparently have strong links with other forces worldwide. The article below mentions the case of abuse of one Leicestershire teenager.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/News+and+Alerts/Media+Releases/2011/02/Taskforce+Argos+recognised+internationally+for+its+contribution+to+making+the+internet+a+safer+place.htm

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Advocatus on 14.01.12 13:25

@jd wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:

I see that person Sines has commented on this article copying a pasting the background check. Does Sines have more information than us? He mentioned the word 'Argus', other than the newspaper and a German company that made parts for the V1 bomb I have no idea what he/she is referring too.

I read this too. I think that Sines meant 'Argos' and misspelt it to Argus. This operation was called Task Force Argos
I would imagine that there are a lot of coppers (and by default, major Fleet St editors) who know all about 19309 and the abuse allegations/convictions, and why all data on that still existing file is no longer there. Sooner or later it will come out, probably published in another country, to begin with. CRuck are like a latterday King Canute commanding the (internet) to go back! Short of a Draconian Internet II (which TPTB are desperate to get in ASAP), it won't be happening soon... :O)

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"One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't." - Gerry McCann: Police CATS (Case Administration and Tracking System) Number 19309 - NB: The 19309 number is still on the Police database, but all data within the file appears to have been ERASED...

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by sharonl on 14.01.12 14:54

This may be of very little relevance at the moment but we should keep it for possible future reference

http://www.amsosa.com/ore.htm

Mastercard and American Express customers, plus other major credit card providers, have projected that the total number of British people accessing child porn sites exceeds 250,000.

Paying to view child pornography on the Net carries a maximum sentence of five years imprisonment. Why are the sentences so short? Viewing child pornography is not a victimless crime!

Maybe, sometimes it just pays to have your wallet pinched winkwink


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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by jd on 14.01.12 15:33

@sharonl wrote:This may be of very little relevance at the moment but we should keep it for possible future reference

http://www.amsosa.com/ore.htm

Mastercard and American Express customers, plus other major credit card providers, have projected that the total number of British people accessing child porn sites exceeds 250,000.

Paying to view child pornography on the Net carries a maximum sentence of five years imprisonment. Why are the sentences so short? Viewing child pornography is not a victimless crime!

Maybe, sometimes it just pays to have your wallet pinched winkwink


Yes gerry (or an American) blogged about his credit cards being stolen but returned 2 days later when a' friend' brought them over to PDL. Yet the PJ files state he had no credit cards!!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS9_FINANCIAL.htm

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by rainbow-fairy on 14.01.12 17:17

@russiandoll wrote:I must have not communicated my thoughts very well as you and I are thinking along similar lines! I have read a few posts on other forums regarding this issue, from people thinking it is perfectly understandable that a file would be created for parents who admitted freely to leaving children unattended then one came to harm, [did not admit it, as that implies they were asked a question.... they actively brought "neglect" to everyone's attention].
I was saying here that there would be no reason to delete anything if this was standard social services procedure. I should have stated also that it is not a social services system but a police system for child protection [ isn't it? hope I am correct here]
I do not see how it could have been related to a social services visit that I believe was requested by the McCanns on their return to UK as has been suggested elsewhere.
Bottom line is, I never did believe this file was created for any reason to do with possible neglect in May 07. I too believe it was in existence before that date, maybe a long time before.
Wondering what you thought I was saying....but I was not disagreeing with people who find this file and deletion of contents suspicious....my post was titled DODGY after all !!
russiandoll, I agree with all your conclusions, bar one. I have to say I unequivocally believe that in no shape or form did the McCanns request the Social Services visit. They just had to go along with what would be an automatic referral. I believe that 'we asked for a Social Services visit' is pure desperate spin, and in the same vein as Robert Murat+Arguido='Suspect', Kate/Gerry McCann+Arguido='Persons of Interest'.
No, I think Kate's alleged reaction to the Social Worker (was her name Yvonne somebody?) In PdL tells you all you need to know. She wasn't welcome and I'd bet my bottom dollar the ones who visited weren't, either. We are told, by Kate and Gerry (natch!) That the visiting social workers were 'obviously embarrassed to be having to scrutinising them' and that their conclusion was all was well (how could it be? One child missing allegedly as a result of neglect!?!) The thing is, family courts and social services are done so secretly we'd have no way of verifying this. Sean and Amelie could be on a child protection register for all we know. Also, who is to say that the 'Ward of Court' wasn't ordered by family court? Of course the version we are told is that WOC gives greater powers to aid a search etc, yet to my knowledge Ben Needham wasn't made a Ward?
TBH, I don't believe a word either of the McCanns say. If either of them said I was alive I'd feel my pulse to check...

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Advocatus on 14.01.12 17:35

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:I must have not communicated my thoughts very well as you and I are thinking along similar lines! I have read a few posts on other forums regarding this issue, from people thinking it is perfectly understandable that a file would be created for parents who admitted freely to leaving children unattended then one came to harm, [did not admit it, as that implies they were asked a question.... they actively brought "neglect" to everyone's attention].
I was saying here that there would be no reason to delete anything if this was standard social services procedure. I should have stated also that it is not a social services system but a police system for child protection [ isn't it? hope I am correct here]
I do not see how it could have been related to a social services visit that I believe was requested by the McCanns on their return to UK as has been suggested elsewhere.
Bottom line is, I never did believe this file was created for any reason to do with possible neglect in May 07. I too believe it was in existence before that date, maybe a long time before.
Wondering what you thought I was saying....but I was not disagreeing with people who find this file and deletion of contents suspicious....my post was titled DODGY after all !!
russiandoll, I agree with all your conclusions, bar one. I have to say I unequivocally believe that in no shape or form did the McCanns request the Social Services visit. They just had to go along with what would be an automatic referral. I believe that 'we asked for a Social Services visit' is pure desperate spin, and in the same vein as Robert Murat+Arguido='Suspect', Kate/Gerry McCann+Arguido='Persons of Interest'.
No, I think Kate's alleged reaction to the Social Worker (was her name Yvonne somebody?) In PdL tells you all you need to know. She wasn't welcome and I'd bet my bottom dollar the ones who visited weren't, either. We are told, by Kate and Gerry (natch!) That the visiting social workers were 'obviously embarrassed to be having to scrutinising them' and that their conclusion was all was well (how could it be? One child missing allegedly as a result of neglect!?!) The thing is, family courts and social services are done so secretly we'd have no way of verifying this. Sean and Amelie could be on a child protection register for all we know. Also, who is to say that the 'Ward of Court' wasn't ordered by family court? Of course the version we are told is that WOC gives greater powers to aid a search etc, yet to my knowledge Ben Needham wasn't made a Ward?
TBH, I don't believe a word either of the McCanns say. If either of them said I was alive I'd feel my pulse to check...

Spot-on rainbow-fairy. More later on the 'stolen' wallet fairytale!!!

____________________
"One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't." - Gerry McCann: Police CATS (Case Administration and Tracking System) Number 19309 - NB: The 19309 number is still on the Police database, but all data within the file appears to have been ERASED...

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by rainbow-fairy on 14.01.12 18:23

@Advocatus wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:I must have not communicated my thoughts very well as you and I are thinking along similar lines! I have read a few posts on other forums regarding this issue, from people thinking it is perfectly understandable that a file would be created for parents who admitted freely to leaving children unattended then one came to harm, [did not admit it, as that implies they were asked a question.... they actively brought "neglect" to everyone's attention].
I was saying here that there would be no reason to delete anything if this was standard social services procedure. I should have stated also that it is not a social services system but a police system for child protection [ isn't it? hope I am correct here]
I do not see how it could have been related to a social services visit that I believe was requested by the McCanns on their return to UK as has been suggested elsewhere.
Bottom line is, I never did believe this file was created for any reason to do with possible neglect in May 07. I too believe it was in existence before that date, maybe a long time before.
Wondering what you thought I was saying....but I was not disagreeing with people who find this file and deletion of contents suspicious....my post was titled DODGY after all !!
russiandoll, I agree with all your conclusions, bar one. I have to say I unequivocally believe that in no shape or form did the McCanns request the Social Services visit. They just had to go along with what would be an automatic referral. I believe that 'we asked for a Social Services visit' is pure desperate spin, and in the same vein as Robert Murat+Arguido='Suspect', Kate/Gerry McCann+Arguido='Persons of Interest'.
No, I think Kate's alleged reaction to the Social Worker (was her name Yvonne somebody?) In PdL tells you all you need to know. She wasn't welcome and I'd bet my bottom dollar the ones who visited weren't, either. We are told, by Kate and Gerry (natch!) That the visiting social workers were 'obviously embarrassed to be having to scrutinising them' and that their conclusion was all was well (how could it be? One child missing allegedly as a result of neglect!?!) The thing is, family courts and social services are done so secretly we'd have no way of verifying this. Sean and Amelie could be on a child protection register for all we know. Also, who is to say that the 'Ward of Court' wasn't ordered by family court? Of course the version we are told is that WOC gives greater powers to aid a search etc, yet to my knowledge Ben Needham wasn't made a Ward?
TBH, I don't believe a word either of the McCanns say. If either of them said I was alive I'd feel my pulse to check...

Spot-on rainbow-fairy. More later on the 'stolen' wallet fairytale!!!
Uh-huh. I think somebody googled the wrong keyword, pressed the wrong button and then accidentally-on-purpose put in their card details before realising it was the 'wrong' site - I don't think so! Methinks someone has been a very naughty boy. I wasn't born yesterday nor am I as dim as I sometimes sound Wink

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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social services visit

Post by russiandoll on 14.01.12 18:46

Rainbow Fairy I need to do some more research on this. [ I don't think you ever sound dim btw far from it!]

I have only read about this visit to Rothley from unreliable sources [the McCanns ] and as you say it will be near impossible to verify. What I did think might have happened was that they were desperate to get the people onside at a time when the tide was starting to turn [ press reporting the PJ suspicions and the like], having returned to the UK almost as soon as they had been made arguidos], so much beginning to look really negative...and to improve their image they wanted to be seen to be welcoming SS so as to convey the impression of they really had nothing to hide, why would we invite this ?

On reflection, it would under the circumstances have been inconceivable for them not to have had a visiter from SS as a matter of procedure, but part of me still wonders as much as they dreaded it,knowing it probably would be coming, they might have wished to pre-empt it to make a favourable impression. I found it hard to swallow that a barrister who went to PDL told them their parenting was within the bounds of responsibility and I am certain that Social Services did not take this stand.
What I strongly suspect and was my main point, whoever initiated that SS visit, the file created had nothing to do with it, it was already in existence. On balance you are probably correct, it is just that I am so very cynical about how the McCanns have behaved, I thought they might have asked for a visit simply image management reasons.
Its' a right old tangled web aint it

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Advocatus on 14.01.12 19:27

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@Advocatus wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:I must have not communicated my thoughts very well as you and I are thinking along similar lines! I have read a few posts on other forums regarding this issue, from people thinking it is perfectly understandable that a file would be created for parents who admitted freely to leaving children unattended then one came to harm, [did not admit it, as that implies they were asked a question.... they actively brought "neglect" to everyone's attention].
I was saying here that there would be no reason to delete anything if this was standard social services procedure. I should have stated also that it is not a social services system but a police system for child protection [ isn't it? hope I am correct here]
I do not see how it could have been related to a social services visit that I believe was requested by the McCanns on their return to UK as has been suggested elsewhere.
Bottom line is, I never did believe this file was created for any reason to do with possible neglect in May 07. I too believe it was in existence before that date, maybe a long time before.
Wondering what you thought I was saying....but I was not disagreeing with people who find this file and deletion of contents suspicious....my post was titled DODGY after all !!
russiandoll, I agree with all your conclusions, bar one. I have to say I unequivocally believe that in no shape or form did the McCanns request the Social Services visit. They just had to go along with what would be an automatic referral. I believe that 'we asked for a Social Services visit' is pure desperate spin, and in the same vein as Robert Murat+Arguido='Suspect', Kate/Gerry McCann+Arguido='Persons of Interest'.
No, I think Kate's alleged reaction to the Social Worker (was her name Yvonne somebody?) In PdL tells you all you need to know. She wasn't welcome and I'd bet my bottom dollar the ones who visited weren't, either. We are told, by Kate and Gerry (natch!) That the visiting social workers were 'obviously embarrassed to be having to scrutinising them' and that their conclusion was all was well (how could it be? One child missing allegedly as a result of neglect!?!) The thing is, family courts and social services are done so secretly we'd have no way of verifying this. Sean and Amelie could be on a child protection register for all we know. Also, who is to say that the 'Ward of Court' wasn't ordered by family court? Of course the version we are told is that WOC gives greater powers to aid a search etc, yet to my knowledge Ben Needham wasn't made a Ward?
TBH, I don't believe a word either of the McCanns say. If either of them said I was alive I'd feel my pulse to check...

Spot-on rainbow-fairy. More later on the 'stolen' wallet fairytale!!!
Uh-huh. I think somebody googled the wrong keyword, pressed the wrong button and then accidentally-on-purpose put in their card details before realising it was the 'wrong' site - I don't think so! Methinks someone has been a very naughty boy. I wasn't born yesterday nor am I as dim as I sometimes sound Wink


I used to be a very senior credit card troubleshooter/systems analyst/fraud analyst and so on for one of top 3 players in the biz, Gerry's fairytale does not add up whatsoever. More when I get on a proper laptop. This credit card loss bullmerde is one of the biggest red flags I have ever seen.

But even preceded by THAT hokum, the Leicester Police refused to provide detailed credt/debit card transaction history, bank history et cetera.

That in itself is a scandal in a potential homicide inquiry.

____________________
"One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't." - Gerry McCann: Police CATS (Case Administration and Tracking System) Number 19309 - NB: The 19309 number is still on the Police database, but all data within the file appears to have been ERASED...

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by rainbow-fairy on 14.01.12 20:49

@russiandoll wrote:Rainbow Fairy I need to do some more research on this. [ I don't think you ever sound dim btw far from it!]

I have only read about this visit to Rothley from unreliable sources [the McCanns ] and as you say it will be near impossible to verify. What I did think might have happened was that they were desperate to get the people onside at a time when the tide was starting to turn [ press reporting the PJ suspicions and the like], having returned to the UK almost as soon as they had been made arguidos], so much beginning to look really negative...and to improve their image they wanted to be seen to be welcoming SS so as to convey the impression of they really had nothing to hide, why would we invite this ?

On reflection, it would under the circumstances have been inconceivable for them not to have had a visiter from SS as a matter of procedure, but part of me still wonders as much as they dreaded it,knowing it probably would be coming, they might have wished to pre-empt it to make a favourable impression. I found it hard to swallow that a barrister who went to PDL told them their parenting was within the bounds of responsibility and I am certain that Social Services did not take this stand.
What I strongly suspect and was my main point, whoever initiated that SS visit, the file created had nothing to do with it, it was already in existence. On balance you are probably correct, it is just that I am so very cynical about how the McCanns have behaved, I thought they might have asked for a visit simply image management reasons.
Its' a right old tangled web aint it
It certainly is! I think we are both right on this, indeed its a tad similar to earlier when someone misunderstood your post, was it tigger? Yes, I think its highly possible the McCanns 'asked' for the visit, knowing it was coming anyway. What is that if not 'spin' to say "We asked them round (what we're not telling you is they would've come anyway and there's not a thing we could do about it. This way makes us look much better - responsible, even!)" Re-reading my post, I hadn't made it very clear but I meant the same as you, their 'announcement' was plain PR, plain and simple.
I also agree the CATS file was not concerned with what happened in PdL that spring. I think it was long-standing and serious, and far from the 'empty file reference' we've been led to 'believe' Wink

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Newintown on 14.01.12 21:25

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:Rainbow Fairy I need to do some more research on this. [ I don't think you ever sound dim btw far from it!]

I have only read about this visit to Rothley from unreliable sources [the McCanns ] and as you say it will be near impossible to verify. What I did think might have happened was that they were desperate to get the people onside at a time when the tide was starting to turn [ press reporting the PJ suspicions and the like], having returned to the UK almost as soon as they had been made arguidos], so much beginning to look really negative...and to improve their image they wanted to be seen to be welcoming SS so as to convey the impression of they really had nothing to hide, why would we invite this ?

On reflection, it would under the circumstances have been inconceivable for them not to have had a visiter from SS as a matter of procedure, but part of me still wonders as much as they dreaded it,knowing it probably would be coming, they might have wished to pre-empt it to make a favourable impression. I found it hard to swallow that a barrister who went to PDL told them their parenting was within the bounds of responsibility and I am certain that Social Services did not take this stand.
What I strongly suspect and was my main point, whoever initiated that SS visit, the file created had nothing to do with it, it was already in existence. On balance you are probably correct, it is just that I am so very cynical about how the McCanns have behaved, I thought they might have asked for a visit simply image management reasons.
Its' a right old tangled web aint it
It certainly is! I think we are both right on this, indeed its a tad similar to earlier when someone misunderstood your post, was it tigger? Yes, I think its highly possible the McCanns 'asked' for the visit, knowing it was coming anyway. What is that if not 'spin' to say "We asked them round (what we're not telling you is they would've come anyway and there's not a thing we could do about it. This way makes us look much better - responsible, even!)" Re-reading my post, I hadn't made it very clear but I meant the same as you, their 'announcement' was plain PR, plain and simple.
I also agree the CATS file was not concerned with what happened in PdL that spring. I think it was long-standing and serious, and far from the 'empty file reference' we've been led to 'believe' Wink

I've had a feeling for a long time that Madeleine did not actually live at home with K & G and the twins, hence the scarce (family) photos of her and those that did exist had her looking timid, or nervous, as if she didn't really know the people taking her photo (i.e. K & G if she didn't live with them full time). It would also answer why K & G didn't seem like loving, caring parents towards her, she was just an accessory to be brought out when relatives/friends visited on bank holidays etc.

If that is the case, would it answer why one of the questions thrown at KM by the PJ was "were you thinking of giving Madeleine to a relative", it would also answer why Madeleine was made a WOC (she would not automatically be handed over to her parents if she was found), it may also answer why K & G have a CATS file, if she was put with another family (say a foster family) if she was not being properly looked after at home.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by jd on 14.01.12 23:45

I don't know if this has been mentioned before on this topic but on the morning of 4th May 2007, the mccanns were questioned by Yvonne Martin who had been working for 25 years as a child protector. The aggression towards her and in particular david payne watching & then butting in telling her where to go is very suspicious. I tend to think they were worried by who she was and what she would/could find out about them which is the only explanation for their behaviour towards her. david payne seemed to be the one who 'needed' to be in the control of the situation so maybe he too has a 'number' hidden away and info deleted off the files somewhere? This also suggests gerrys CATS number was pre May 2007

You can read all Yvone's statements here and they are interesting with what she says http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic53.html

However, the third individual overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.
This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help—an action that appeared quite strange to her.
But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.
She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

What is also interesting is that 'holiday' in Majorca in sept 2005 re Gaspar statement. Like the holiday in PDL, this Majorca holiday was also organised by david payne and most will be familiar with him and the men only bathing the kids and the remarks he made about Maddie. Why would any 'man' (let alone a woman) want to be bathing their friends kids!!!! A strong picture is forming here

On a separate note, would it be just 'coincidental' if these holidays both organised by david payne just happened to be at resorts where 2 directors of Madeleine Foundation alledgely happen to have property interests....Food for thought

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by aquila on 15.01.12 0:06

@jd wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned before on this topic but on the morning of 4th May 2007, the mccanns were questioned by Yvonne Martin who had been working for 25 years as a child protector. The aggression towards her and in particular david payne watching & then butting in telling her where to go is very suspicious. I tend to think they were worried by who she was and what she would/could find out about them which is the only explanation for their behaviour towards her. david payne seemed to be the one who 'needed' to be in the control of the situation so maybe he too has a 'number' hidden away and info deleted off the files somewhere? This also suggests gerrys CATS number was pre May 2007

You can read all Yvone's statements here and they are interesting with what she says http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic53.html

However, the third individual overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.
This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help—an action that appeared quite strange to her.
But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.
She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

What is also interesting is that 'holiday' in Majorca in sept 2005 re Gaspar statement. Like the holiday in PDL, this Majorca holiday was also organised by david payne and most will be familiar with him and the men only bathing the kids and the remarks he made about Maddie. Why would any 'man' (let alone a woman) want to be bathing their friends kids!!!! A strong picture is forming here

On a separate note, would it be just 'coincidental' if these holidays both organised by david payne just happened to be at resorts where 2 directors of Madeleine Foundation alledgely happen to have property interests....Food for thought

I ask myself why would GM ask DP to go and check that Kate would be ok bathing the children whilst he was playing tennis. I ask myself why the holiday in Majorca was declared as the men bathing the kids. I ask myself why it's this 'all in together, holiday, happy friends together stuff'

I ask myself so many questions as to what is normal. I still come to the same conclusion even if it's not the one I'd hoped for.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by rainbow-fairy on 15.01.12 1:05

@jd wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned before on this topic but on the morning of 4th May 2007, the mccanns were questioned by Yvonne Martin who had been working for 25 years as a child protector. The aggression towards her and in particular david payne watching & then butting in telling her where to go is very suspicious. I tend to think they were worried by who she was and what she would/could find out about them which is the only explanation for their behaviour towards her. david payne seemed to be the one who 'needed' to be in the control of the situation so maybe he too has a 'number' hidden away and info deleted off the files somewhere? This also suggests gerrys CATS number was pre May 2007

You can read all Yvone's statements here and they are interesting with what she says http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic53.html

However, the third individual overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.
This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help—an action that appeared quite strange to her.
But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.
She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

What is also interesting is that 'holiday' in Majorca in sept 2005 re Gaspar statement. Like the holiday in PDL, this Majorca holiday was also organised by david payne and most will be familiar with him and the men only bathing the kids and the remarks he made about Maddie. Why would any 'man' (let alone a woman) want to be bathing their friends kids!!!! A strong picture is forming here

On a separate note, would it be just 'coincidental' if these holidays both organised by david payne just happened to be at resorts where 2 directors of Madeleine Foundation alledgely happen to have property interests....Food for thought
jd, thank you! Yvonne Martin. Yes I mentioned her and their reactions to her back on p6 I think. Just I couldn't recall her surname - I'd got it in my head it was Woods, for some reason.
I don't know if I come from a family of Neanderthal males, but they would NEVER bath the kids, not in a million years, not even their own... I totally agree that a strong picture is emerging, one that begins with 'P' and ends with 'A'...
Not so long back I read one of those 'abuse survivor' books. It was truly heartbreaking. The girls step-father was the one, and she told very graphically what 'bath times' were like... I can't remember the title, as I have 1000+ books its hard to keep track Wink Worth a read though, shows how low abusers will go, and how invariably they are usually seen as 'pillars of the community', locking the abused in a cycle of silence.
I hope there is an extra specially fiery place in hell for all those who abuse children in whatever form that takes, I really do...

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by jd on 15.01.12 1:36

Could this be the reason jane tanner & co all tried to frame Murat with their 'sightings' of him, to deflect away from david payne?




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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by tigger on 15.01.12 8:35

JD and Russian Doll

Just posted on the 'extra bed' topic and mentioned what JD did here, BK had property in Majorca. A villa?
The McCann didn't go on the Greek holiday which was also MW, so when no McCanns no BK? Who also has property in PdL? Is that right?

Re the 'being well within the bounds of responsible parenting' I think that was within days of 3/5 and it was some outfit like the Family Law Association, a fairly new invention I believe. Because they were 'lawyers' (my, my, doctors and lawyers, can it get more reputable?) this was supposed to be true. I'm pretty sure it has no legal validity.
We don't hear much more about this 'firm', should look at it because I recall it was very recently set up. Not long before 05/07 imo.
The visit from the social services was after they returned to the UK - by then their protection was so solid, if they'd been Shipman and Gengis Khan rolled into one, they'd have been let off.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by tigger on 15.01.12 8:55

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic497.html

this gives a list of the main players and how and where they met.

2002 - Gerry and MO worked together in Leicester?

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by rainbow-fairy on 15.01.12 9:14

@jd wrote:Could this be the reason jane tanner & co all tried to frame Murat with their 'sightings' of him, to deflect away from david payne?



All I can say is I'll bet DP would kill to have as much hair as RM...

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 9:19

DP reminds me of one of those naughty Gremlins, who have an unusual fluffy bit on their heads, exactly where he does. sarcastic

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