The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Mm11

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Mm11

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Regist10

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Page 16 of 20 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Equity 19.10.16 16:31

The problem I have with the 'conclusions' the police have drawn is that the so called 'evidence' has many other explanations.

Ben could have easily discarded his toy (if it was actually his toy) in the rubble near the farmhouse that morning or the day before and it was scooped up and transported to the other site - or the toy could have got stuck in the digger tracks and been moved that way.

It is ludicrous to jump to the conclusion that the most likely possible scenario is that the digger driver ran Ben over accidentally and then covered his death up. He hadn't done anything wrong, such as allowing Ben to ride on his digger for example, to have a motive to cover up an accident.

The people responsible would have been the grandparents for not supervising Ben whilst the digger was moving rubble.

But then again the grandparents told Kerry (she wrote it in her book) that Ben was still with them after the digger finished work for the day so it couldn't possibly have happened anyway.

I'm not saying this is a whitewash or part of a conspiracy theory, it just simply shows a complete lack of critical thinking - something that is becoming more and more commonplace unfortunately.
avatar
Equity

Posts : 70
Activity : 183
Likes received : 113
Join date : 2016-05-24

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by MRNOODLES 19.10.16 20:29

To be perfectly blunt here.

Dear Coppers, how the hell do you know that the body wasn't dumped in an already dug hole.  Partially covering it with rubbish waiting for the innocent workmen to pitch up later and fill the hole back in?

Or 'a person/s who were supposed to have been watching Ben accidentally let him fall down a hole. And then let the innocent workmen bury him.
MRNOODLES
MRNOODLES

Posts : 751
Activity : 1059
Likes received : 298
Join date : 2013-07-04

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 19.10.16 20:44

ChippyM wrote:
Verdi wrote:
ChippyM wrote:

I suppose the police believe that witness account that lead them to a toy belonging to Ben buried in rubble from 20 years ago counts as evidence. it's not the same as no evidence.
With respect ChippyM, unearthing a child's toy during the excavation equates to zero - other than unearthing a child's toy.  It cannot be counted as evidence that Ben Needham was crushed to death and buried by an earth-mover, it doesn't even signify that he was playing in and/or outside the derelict farmhouse when he allegedly disappeared.

If that's what DI Cousins of South Yorkshire police expects us to believe then it's even worse than I thought!

  The toy car does not equate to 'zero' evidence. You may not be satisfied by it but it is evidence. It was found in another site searched which apparently the mystery witness lead them to. These things together with the age of the rubble do actual count for something. It's like how in murder cases such as Claudia Lawrence, there is no direct evidence of a murder but the fact that items were missing and she didn't turn up for work leads the police to a conclusion.  I know people here are sceptical about the police (me included) but if you don't take this evidence at face value, the only conclusion is they planted it, i don't feel they needed to do this because what would they be covering up?

 I feel like many here actually want this case to be a cover-up so it can fit with the McCann case, it's not the same.  A child was playing on a building site and probably got crushed by a JCB that was actually there ....the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.
Evidence of what exactly ChippyM?  A toy could belong to any child, it could have been buried or laying around for minutes to years - who's to say?  Over a period of time it could have been shifted around any number of times without notice.  As I originally said, it can't be counted as evidence that Ben Needham was crushed to death and buried by an earth mover, it doesn't even signify that he was playing in and/or outside the derelict farmhouse.

Sorry but where did you get the information that "a child was playing on a building site and probably got crushed by a JCB that was actually there ....the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt"?


____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 19.10.16 20:50

Equity wrote:The problem I have with the 'conclusions' the police have drawn is that the so called 'evidence' has many other explanations.

Ben could have easily discarded his toy (if it was actually his toy) in the rubble near the farmhouse that morning or the day before and it was scooped up and transported to the other site - or the toy could have got stuck in the digger tracks and been moved that way.

It is ludicrous to jump to the conclusion that the most likely possible scenario is that the digger driver ran Ben over accidentally and then covered his death up. He hadn't done anything wrong, such as allowing Ben to ride on his digger for example, to have a motive to cover up an accident.

The people responsible would have been the grandparents for not supervising Ben whilst the digger was moving rubble.

But then again the grandparents told Kerry (she wrote it in her book) that Ben was still with them after the digger finished work for the day so it couldn't possibly have happened anyway.

I'm not saying this is a whitewash or part of a conspiracy theory, it just simply shows a complete lack of critical thinking - something that is becoming more and more commonplace unfortunately.
I agree with everything you say but if I can just add - even if a little preoccupied or overcome by the heat, who in their right mind would allow a little child to play around where a ruddy great earthmover is working?  The mere notion is flying in the face of all reason.

It's too riidiculous to even contemplate.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Tony Bennett 19.10.16 21:53

ChippyM wrote:
I feel like many here actually want this case to be a cover-up so it can fit with the McCann case, it's not the same.  A child was playing on a building site and probably got crushed by a JCB that was actually there...the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.
I am absolutely sure that not one person on this forum wants the Ben Needham case to be a cover-up - and the politest response I can think of to that suggestion is to describe it as 'unfortunate'.   

You have spoken about 'evidence', and that is correct.

I personally think that the most significant evidence we have is:

* Ben was fascinated with Stephen's motor-bike
* He desperately wanted to ride on it
* He had been sitting on it with his Uncle Stephen
* Ben disappeared at the very same time as Stephen was heard to roar off on his motor-bike
* On investigation by the police, they found that Stephen's motorbike had been damaged very recently - and he came up with an unconvincing explanation for what had happened
* Under hypnosis, he had 'flashbacks' of Ben having been killed in an accident and him burying him
* Kerry and Stephen Needham used solicitors to suppress the full findings of the hypnotist
* There was no other rational explanation or evidence for anything else having happened.

Now if we look at the events of the past 4 weeks, we see - I suggest - one improbability multiplied by another, such as:

* Ben was walking/playing near a working digger without any adult apparently noticing this
* Also the digger driver didn't notice him
* The digger driver wasn't there anyway. Like most people on Kos he would have started early and then gone home at midday and had lunch and a siesta
* He was run over/crushed by a digger. Has there ever been a similar case?
* The digger driver decided to cover up the accident and bury him
* He kept this to himself for over 24 years (1991-2015)
* On his very 'death-bed' he told his 'friend' of his guilty secret
* The friend did nothing about this but only did so after seeing a TV appeal
* The police make a dramatic announcement that Kerry Needham needs to 'prepare for the worst'
* We get new snippets of information about the digger driver every day
* Cameras are invited close-up to beam back pictures of diggers in action
* 800 tons of rubble are removed and before they an be properly examined, the police close the case and say: 'The digger driver done it'
* Kerry Needham agrees in advance to appear in front of a TV camera when the 'news' about Ben is finally broken to her, and  
* The widow of the digger driver is in despair over what seems a desperate attempt to smear her deceased husband.

@ ChippyM           We all here base our judgments on what we see, what we observe, what we know - and then we try and put 2 and 2 together and see where we get. That is what has gone on, on CMOMM, for the past 7 years. We don't start off with preconceived ideas, but we look at the evidence and make our judgments.

It's legitimate to say you prefer the evidence that points to a death-bed confession by a now-dead digger driver.

But with respect it's not legitimate to say that those who take a very different view of the balance of the evidence 'want there to be a cover-up'

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 16906
Activity : 24770
Likes received : 3749
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 76
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Equity 19.10.16 23:00

Sadly, I suspect that DI Cousins really believed that his latest 'intel' WAS the most likely scenario in the death/disappearance of young Ben. He truly believed that they would sift tons of rubble and find traces of his remains. The family were brought over and were told to expect the worst. The police found absolutely nothing of any significance and to save face put forward a spurious scenario presented as fact.

Following a different theory should have led them to look for, and investigate (ideally many years ago) other possible burial sites between the farmhouse and the caravan.

Sadly, I suspect DCI Redwood really believed, whilst swooping over PDL in his helicopter that he would find where the burglars/drug dealers had disposed of MBM following their botched robbery/abduction. I don't believe it was some sort of charade, as it is obvious that if you put that much time, money and effort in to an elaborate charade you would have found more than absolutely nada - not even anything as 'conclusive' as a discarded toy.

I can't begin to speculate why these police officers felt they had to blatantly ignore well documented circumstantial evidence - that if investigated properly could actually provide answers.

Are they really that incapable of critical thinking? Maybe instead of a 'cover up conspiracy' we could be looking at good old fashioned incompetence exacerbated by political and media pressure to not go anywhere 'uncomfortable'.
avatar
Equity

Posts : 70
Activity : 183
Likes received : 113
Join date : 2016-05-24

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Doug D 19.10.16 23:29

TB:

800 tons of rubble are removed and before they can be properly examined, the police close the case and say: 'The digger driver done it'

If you look at DI Cousins closing statement, whilst he insinuates that this is the case, he doesn't actually say it.

Fairly random thought. Statute of limitations has now passed in Greece for any prosecution, so how about, 'we know he's dead and really need to close this case off, we'll have a good dig around to see if we can come up with a body, but either way we'll blame it on the dead digger driver and look no further'.

Remind me where have we seen a limited investigative remit before?
avatar
Doug D

Posts : 3716
Activity : 5283
Likes received : 1299
Join date : 2013-12-03

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 19.10.16 23:54

Equity wrote:Sadly, I suspect that DI Cousins really believed that his latest 'intel' WAS the most likely scenario in the death/disappearance of young Ben. He truly believed that they would sift tons of rubble and find traces of his remains.

Sadly, I suspect DCI Redwood really believed, whilst swooping over PDL in his helicopter that he would find where the burglars/drug dealers had disposed of MBM following their botched robbery/abduction.
If DI Cousins and ex-DCI Andy Redwood, truly believed they were going to find useful evidence of any description then my worst suspicions are confirmed - they are a couple of incompetent buffoons.

End of!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 20.10.16 0:15

Doug D wrote:

If you look at DI Cousins closing statement, whilst he insinuates that this is the case, he doesn't actually say it.

What a pity the video footage cut off at the point when the press started asking questions. 

"Jon, can I just confirm what this significant item...." - CUT!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Doug D 20.10.16 11:24

Was this ever verified or is it a forum myth?
 
‘Kerry Needham's lawyers took out an injunction against the TV company - and the hypnotist - ever revealing exactly what Stephen said whilst under hypnosis.’
   
In the book KN says she never saw the full hypnosis sessions that were done for the ‘Somebody knows’ documentary and also that the solicitor stepped in to stop filming at some point.
avatar
Doug D

Posts : 3716
Activity : 5283
Likes received : 1299
Join date : 2013-12-03

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by jeanmonroe 20.10.16 14:48



Don't know if this 'helps'.

But no 'mention' of 'digger' or 'driver'.

Stephen said 'he didn't take Ben on motorbike' (8:42) and then 'changed' to 'he DID use to take Ben on motorbike', confirmed by the grandfather. (8 mins 57secs)

Not 'sure' what to make of Stephen at 9:51-10:07. (Facial 'expressions' 'grin'? nervous 'smile'?)

Longer, 'full version'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-JIpz1WzUo

From the 'film maker':  'There have been NO other instances, that i am aware, where a white western European child has been abducted in this way FROM the island of Kos. Not in twenty five years, to date, since Ben's disappearance.'

Remind me: How MANY other white western European 'children' have been 'abducted' from PDL, Portugal, SINCE Madeleine 'disappeared', in 2007?

Rhetorical.

Which i find 'odd' since PDL is 'swarming with ne'er do wells', on almost every street corner, according to various media 'outlets'

GM: 'There's an abductor/kidnapper/perpetrator/predator out there, laughing, (he/she/they) just waiting, to strike again'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-libel-trial-kate-3828366

Strangely then, Ge££y, isn't it, that the 'laughing' erm, 'abductor/perpetrator/kidnapper/predator' (him/her/or they) has NOT 'struck again' in PDL since May 2007?

Weird, huh?

Obviously, the PDL 'abductors' are not being paid 'piece work'!
avatar
jeanmonroe

Posts : 5818
Activity : 7756
Likes received : 1674
Join date : 2013-02-07

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 20.10.16 15:47

It's the double standards that rear their ugly heads whenever a missing child case is compared to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann that get my goat.  In the case of Ben Needham it was/is Kerry Needham who has frequently made comparisons between the two, with particular reference to police and UK government support so one can't be fairly criticised for doing the same.

Take this for example.  The McCanns have been criticised over and over again for using the twins to further their campaign for Madeleine awareness and add colouring to their tales of woe.  Well, Kerry Needham's now grown up daughter Leighanna, wasn't even born when her brother disappeared, yet she has been raised with the constant awareness of her brother - what sort of life is that?  I came across this ..

'One of Leighanna's first memories is taking part in a TV reconstruction of Ben's last moments when she was 22 months old - the same age Ben was when he went missing. With her hair especially cut in the same crop as her brother, and wearing boys clothes, she was the living image of Ben."I was very young, but I can remember that day," Leighanna says, "There was a man walking in front of me holding a yellow toy duck so that I'd follow him. In a strange way it has made me feel like I was there the day Ben went missing.'

Who's right and who's wrong - I know what I think.   Can't reasonably have one rule for one and another rule for another..  bignono

Goncalo Amaral was very anxious to know more about the McCanns and their background - perhaps the police should have adopted the same criteria to the case of Ben Needham.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by MayMuse 20.10.16 22:26

The Verdi wrote:Much obliged for your time Doug D howdy .

A report from the Mirror, the intelligent tabloid, who claimed to have supported the Needham family throughout their ordeal.  Much of the report is attributed to direct quotes from Ben Neeham's father.

Please note date of publication and the specific text snipped ..

'I secretly watched police dig for my son's body': Missing Ben Needham’s dad breaks silence on his torment

2nd January 2013



***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Search%20for%20Ben%20Needham
Serch: South Yorkshire police team dig into a mound at the farm house
  
The latest operation was launched after a tip-off that Ben may have been buried in building work being carried out on the day he disappeared.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-ben-needham-dad-simon-1514006

I'm not thinking that the child's father was responsible or involved in the child's disappearance but I do think their relationship was unstable which is an indication of the Needham family's general disposition.  I always considered it strange that Kerry Needham decided to take off with such a young child to live in a caravan with her parents.  No job no work prospects no schooling for the child no money nowhere to live - seems like she was running away from something without thinking it through - but then again, she was very young.
Kerry and Ben and Steven lived in a flat not in the caravan, she got a job in a hotel.

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
avatar
MayMuse

Posts : 2033
Activity : 3472
Likes received : 1413
Join date : 2016-04-15

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 20.10.16 22:47

MayMuse wrote:
Kerry and Ben and Steven lived in a flat not in the caravan, she got a job in a hotel.
Not when she first went out there.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 20.10.16 23:16

Stephen Needham's hypnosis sessions and aftermath are covered extensively in this video which lays itself open to individual interpretation - if someone would please do the honours for me..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo

Parts 2 and 3 - approximately 30 minutes onwards.

Here's the rub.  The Needhams, Kerry Needham in particular, have moaned and whined about the lack of police and government support - frequently comparing their own situation with that of the McCanns.  This documentary filmed ten years after Ben Needham's disappearance is clearly a professional production hosted by Carlton Television, otherwise known as ITV - somebody sponsored this documentary production.

Christine and Eddie Needham were not traveling around at their own expense, this expedition was organized and financed independently but by whom I would very much like to know.  The whole production is staged without any apparent connection to the Ben Needham's disappearance - it focuses on abduction by gypsies which is about as far fetched as Madeleine McCann being abducted by gypsies.  The grandparents are not detectives, they have no powers to investigate a missing child - indeed, if you're going to undertake your own 'search' because no official body is 'proactively searching', would you waste time, energy and money chasing gypsies who wouldn't tell you anything even if they knew?  Nobody is going to abduct a child and then admit they have done so.

Reverting to Stephen Needham, his attitude is strange considering the severity of the situation.  Apart from anything else, he agrees to hypnosis and later insists that what his sub-conscience revealed was a result of rigorous police interrogation - he knows that's not what happened!?!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by jeanmonroe 20.10.16 23:20

avatar
jeanmonroe

Posts : 5818
Activity : 7756
Likes received : 1674
Join date : 2013-02-07

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 20.10.16 23:26

jeanmonroe wrote:@Verdi

thumbsup

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Doug D 21.10.16 8:43

Verdi:
 
‘Christine and Eddie Needham were not traveling around at their own expense’
 
As you say, for the production it would have been financed by someone, but generally there seemed to be plenty of cash floating around, (just send cash in envelope to KN, Sheffield touch maybe?).
 
Around 2003 from memory, they had £22k in cash stolen (plus £4k from Stephen) from their house by Danny’s ex-fiancée iirc.
 
There must have been a bank account for the Find Ben Fund, so why even keep so much cash?
 
   
At least with the Mc’s there were some type of accounts to vaguely see the comings and goings.

eta link to newspaper report:

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/missing-boys-uncle-police-inquiry-2942078
avatar
Doug D

Posts : 3716
Activity : 5283
Likes received : 1299
Join date : 2013-12-03

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by sallypelt 21.10.16 11:04

Who goes away for the weekend leaving "£22,000 under the bed"? Why wasn't this money in a bank account?
avatar
sallypelt

Posts : 4004
Activity : 5319
Likes received : 961
Join date : 2012-11-10

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by jeanmonroe 21.10.16 11:26

What are the 'implications' going to be for the Needham family, going forward, if they 'accept' the SYP's 'conclusion'?

No more 'search fund' donations?

No more 'events'? (TV, 'appeals')

No more 'merchandising' with regards to Ben?

I did 'notice' that the sister has said she 'does not' accept the SYP's 'conclusion'

So no 'change' with the Ben 'campaign'?
avatar
jeanmonroe

Posts : 5818
Activity : 7756
Likes received : 1674
Join date : 2013-02-07

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Equity 21.10.16 12:22

One easy conclusion to draw from watching the documentary again is that Ben almost certainly wasn't run over by 'diggerman'.

Seeing the grandparents recount their initial search for Ben and the surrounding area makes one realise how unbelievable the decision to stop searching because 'he must have gone with Steven on his bike' sounds.

The Grandmother intimates it was quite a frantic search as she says she ran up and down the lane. The Grandfather points out the large area of grass is still as long as it was when Ben disappeared - how could they possibly know Ben wasn't somewhere in the long grass in stifling mid day temperatures.

Reading the extracts from the book Tony has posted on the other thread makes the initial search sound even more desperate.

Would anyone in those circumstance truly shrug their shoulders and say 'no sign of him so he must have gone with Steven'? Without any confirmation he had? Just after you've spent some time frantically searching?

No mention in the documentary the digger was operating at the time - almost certainly because it wasn't! In the book, Christine says it was so peaceful and quiet "There were no other human sounds, just the wind and the animals puncturing the silence" and "No one had heard any other vehicles."

Massive discrepancy when the grandparents say that the obvious conclusion of finding no sign of Ben was that he must have gone on Steven's bike yet Steven says he had NEVER taken Ben on his bike in the past so why would that be an obvious conclusion?

It always amazes me that the gullible public and the MSM are quite happy when it is suggested it was the 'swarthy foreigner what done it' yet if the suggestion is made the answer could lie closer to home they become incandescent with rage that one could even suggest such a thing. 'Swarthy foreigners' despite being fathers, brothers, grandfathers themselves are somehow different when it comes to the things they may be capable of and obviously have different values to us - must be the heat?

There are certainly parallels with the McCann case - look anywhere else apart from the bleeding obvious as the bleeding obvious could prove to be a unpalatable.
avatar
Equity

Posts : 70
Activity : 183
Likes received : 113
Join date : 2016-05-24

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by ChippyM 21.10.16 14:03

Tony Bennett wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
I feel like many here actually want this case to be a cover-up so it can fit with the McCann case, it's not the same.  A child was playing on a building site and probably got crushed by a JCB that was actually there...the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.
I am absolutely sure that not one person on this forum wants the Ben Needham case to be a cover-up - and the politest response I can think of to that suggestion is to describe it as 'unfortunate'.   

You have spoken about 'evidence', and that is correct.

I personally think that the most significant evidence we have is:

.........snipped...........

@ ChippyM           We all here base our judgments on what we see, what we observe, what we know - and then we try and put 2 and 2 together and see where we get. That is what has gone on, on CMOMM, for the past 7 years. We don't start off with preconceived ideas, but we look at the evidence and make our judgments.

It's legitimate to say you prefer the evidence that points to a death-bed confession by a now-dead digger driver.

But with respect it's not legitimate to say that those who take a very different view of the balance of the evidence 'want there to be a cover-up'

You keep referring to a 'deathbed confession' this has not been confirmed, there are accounts that the witness saw Barkas visibly upset after the time Ben went missing....then he contaced police after a Tv appeal recently. That has not been confirmed 100 % either but to me makes more sense.  So no, I am not basing things on a death bed confession.

You also think it would be hard for someone to keep something so terrible to themselves for years? Isn't that what most people here believe the McCanns are doing?

 There was also apparently a witness in a nearby house, who saw Ben still playing after his uncle left on his motorbike, that's just one of the reasons I don't belive it was Ben's uncle.

We don't have all the witness statements and reports to pore through on this case which is what makes it different from the McCann case. I think many people, myself included are basing judgements about what happened on media info. It is not ideal. The police, who no doubt have more detailed accounts and statements have come to a plausible explanation, I don't see how anyone can refute that. they haven't closed the case, apparently investigation and analysis is ongoing, so maybe more detail will clarify things.

Lastly I am not accusing everyone who disagrees with my view as wanting a cover-up, it's just a feeling I got that some people are super sceptical of anything the police will find. everyone is biased to some degree, everyone.  The human brain has more going on subconciously than conciously and we are not always as neutral as we think, it's not an insult, or intended as one.
avatar
ChippyM

Posts : 1334
Activity : 1817
Likes received : 467
Join date : 2013-06-15

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by ChippyM 21.10.16 14:19

Doug D wrote:ChippyM:
 
‘...the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.’
 
JCB was there, but it can’t drive itself!

Why do people keep saying he wasn't there? It seems to be a presumption based on it being a hot day so people finished early.

Barkas's own words ( The Mirror 2012) 


Speaking for the first time, Mr Barkas, 61, also revealed he has given a statement to police.
“Yes, I was the man with the JCB that day,” Mr Barkas said.
“Loads of earth were being taken to clear the ground for the new house down the road. Cutting that much ground from the hill was a big job.
“I think people were misled in thinking the child was abducted."
avatar
ChippyM

Posts : 1334
Activity : 1817
Likes received : 467
Join date : 2013-06-15

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 21.10.16 15:41

sallypelt wrote:Who goes away for the weekend leaving "£22,000 under the bed"? Why wasn't this money in a bank account?
According to the link posted by Doug D ..

'The cash was being kept by Ben's grandparents, Eddie and Christine Needham, so they could fly to the Greek holiday island of Kos to search for their grandson. Ben was just two when he vanished on the island in 1991.'

Surely the days of paying with cash for anything grand are long gone.  I wouldn't keep £2,000 quid in the house let alone £22,000 - did they intend to fly out with pockets bulging with the remaining cash to pay for food and accommodation?

Not that I have any faith in press reports but too frequently there is little or nothing else to go on.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 16 Empty Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Post by Verdi 21.10.16 15:57

ChippyM wrote:
 There was also apparently a witness in a nearby house, who saw Ben still playing after his uncle left on his motorbike, that's just one of the reasons I don't belive it was Ben's uncle.

Who was this witness in a nearby house you refer to? 

Reference is made in the 'Somebody Knows' documentary posted upthread, that an elderly couple living close by kept chickens.  'The woman was sitting outside on the day Ben Needham went missing and she saw Stephen Needham leave on his bike - but she didn't see anyone else.'  It is possible that a 21 month old child could have been sitting in front of the driver and not be seen by someone viewing from an elevated position (see video @ 34:20 minutes)

Is it one and the same witness?

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex forum manager
ex forum manager

Posts : 35069
Activity : 42327
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Page 16 of 20 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum