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Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by G-Unit on 23.10.16 8:24

@skyrocket wrote:@suzyjohnson - actually, if the cctv times are correct, the women didn't leave until around 6.40pm. Grace was still sitting in a high chair at the Paraiso at 6.36pm. Both her and Scarlet had to be put in to their prams and then had to be carried down the steps from the restaurant, before the group could set off back up to the tennis courts/tapas - a walk of at least 1/2 km which with small children would probably take at least 15 minutes.

Fiona, Dianne and Jane all say in their 4 May statements that they left the restaurant around 6.15pm, which is clearly false.
Can anyone with better eyesight than me see the two older [walking] girls at the Paraiso after the men left? Also where is the third pushchair?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by sandancer on 23.10.16 11:28

This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Roxyroo on 23.10.16 11:50

@G-Unit wrote:
@Doug D wrote:‘I collected Ella from the Ocean Club before she went up to tea at the Tapas Bar’
 
Giving Russell the benefit of the doubt here, it depends how you interpret it.
    
I took it to be he had collected her early, otherwise she would have gone to the Tapas, as usual, for her tea.
That's so. There are various mentions of Russell's dash to get Ella before she was taken to high tea. He was sailing until at least 4.15pm, then pelted up the hill to collect and sign out his daughter at 5pm. The only problem arising is that he didn't sign her out at 5pm. Catriona Baker did that at 4.30pm. Still, who clock-watches on holiday?

On this occasion we were on the beach and as it got towards five o’clock I, I pelted up the hill to collect Ella before they were taken up to the main complex.....I got in early enough to get Ella out before the end of, well, you know, arrived just before they actually left to go up,....I picked Ella up at five....The Nannies would have taken them up to tea at the Tapas had I not’, well ‘would have taken Ella had I not got in there and signed her out and brought her down to the beach’.....this was, I would imagine would be, you know, quarter past four, half four time, erm, when we probably finished sailing. 
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm


Re. Cat Baker signing her out- if I forget to sign my wee boy out of nursery ( he doesnt like to be interupted in the middle of playing to go home!) the nursery worker does it for me, so this could be the explanation. But seeing as the creche records are such a shambles I don't know what to believe!

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by skyrocket on 23.10.16 12:47

@G-Unit - I agree, Lily and Ella aren't on any of the cctv images after the men have left. I wondered wether the men had actually taken the 2 back up to the apartments with them, to make things easier for the women, but why not just say this? If you look at image 18.36pm, I think there is a third pram between the first 2 tables on the right of the image?

The men's arrival times are:

Matthew 17.36pm
David 17.46pm
Russell between 17.47pm and 17.52pm

Also, Ella is in a coloured t-shirt (peach?) with what looks like a large face on the front, whereas all the other children seem to be wearing long sleeved, plain white tops. Grace is in the high chair with her back to the camera. I think Lily is in the second high chair? Scarlet seems to be on either David's or Fiona's knees. Ella is on Russell's knee and wandering. Jane has a child (or different children) on her knee (and possibly by her side) - Evie? What does anyone think about the child standing, at 17.47pm? It's not Ella. Bear in mind Evie was 19/20 months old (very similar in age to Grace who is on Matthews knee in the same shot). I would say this child looks close to Ella's age. Is she part of the group? Is it Lily?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by kaz on 23.10.16 12:49

First of all I'd like to point out that I don't have a static theory about this case and am open to any other contributor's ideas. I agree that there is a good case for something happening to Madeleine before Thursday but I am not totally convinced. As 'Roxyroo' points out the crèche records were indeed a shambles. Now if these records were just an attempt at a cover up and whatever befell Madeleine happened early in that week, wouldn't a better job have been made of it? There would have been plenty of time. Also I just can't get my head around so many people having to be liars and part of the big deception if Madeleine really did go missing at the beginning of  that week. That something happened early on Thursday evening makes so much more sense to me but I do appreciate  that lots of other members think differently  .Until  I am totally convinced, I am sitting on the fence with this one.

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 23.10.16 13:08

@sandancer wrote:This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !
Classic Freudian slip!

Apropos of your comments up-page about the absence of group togetherness throughout the week, the most extraordinary incident in my view is the Thursday afternoon trip to the beach, leaving the McCann family ostracized - bit mean isn't it?  My guess, it was orchestrated to divert attention away from the McCann family and whatever they were up to.  Bit of a co-incidence that it was the only occasion where CCTV footage can confirm where they were but not where the McCanns were.

According to the groups witness statements the holiday started in great detail, the following days are glossed over until Thursday 3rd when another flurry of contradictory information is forthcoming - the very day prepared for action ?!?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by G-Unit on 23.10.16 14:27

@Verdi wrote:
@sandancer wrote:This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !
Classic Freudian slip!

Apropos of your comments up-page about the absence of group togetherness throughout the week, the most extraordinary incident in my view is the Thursday afternoon trip to the beach, leaving the McCann family ostracized - bit mean isn't it?  My guess, it was orchestrated to divert attention away from the McCann family and whatever they were up to.  Bit of a co-incidence that it was the only occasion where CCTV footage can confirm where they were but not where the McCanns were.

According to the groups witness statements the holiday started in great detail, the following days are glossed over until Thursday 3rd when another flurry of contradictory information is forthcoming - the very day prepared for action ?!?
Jeremy Wilkins saw Gerry on Thursday but his diagram is a bit difficult to make out. It may be up near the Millenium. No time given;


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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by sandancer on 23.10.16 16:54

@Verdi wrote:
@sandancer wrote:This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !
Classic Freudian slip!

Apropos of your comments up-page about the absence of group togetherness throughout the week, the most extraordinary incident in my view is the Thursday afternoon trip to the beach, leaving the McCann family ostracized - bit mean isn't it?  My guess, it was orchestrated to divert attention away from the McCann family and whatever they were up to.  Bit of a co-incidence that it was the only occasion where CCTV footage can confirm where they were but not where the McCanns were.

According to the groups witness statements the holiday started in great detail, the following days are glossed over until Thursday 3rd when another flurry of contradictory information is forthcoming - the very day prepared for action ?!?
"Bit mean " as in "well they haven't bothered with us all week , so tough !" Or as you say orchestrated to divert attention away from them ?
Doesn't Kate say something in her "bewk " about waving to them and hoping they waved back , but that's all in her work of fiction ! CCTV would be the last thing they wanted imho  bignono

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 23.10.16 20:41

@sandancer wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@sandancer wrote:This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !
Classic Freudian slip!

Apropos of your comments up-page about the absence of group togetherness throughout the week, the most extraordinary incident in my view is the Thursday afternoon trip to the beach, leaving the McCann family ostracized - bit mean isn't it?  My guess, it was orchestrated to divert attention away from the McCann family and whatever they were up to.  Bit of a co-incidence that it was the only occasion where CCTV footage can confirm where they were but not where the McCanns were.

According to the groups witness statements the holiday started in great detail, the following days are glossed over until Thursday 3rd when another flurry of contradictory information is forthcoming - the very day prepared for action ?!?
"Bit mean " as in "well they haven't bothered with us all week , so tough !" Or as you say orchestrated to divert attention away from them ?
Doesn't Kate say something in her "bewk " about waving to them and hoping they waved back , but that's all in her work of fiction ! CCTV would be the last thing they wanted imho  bignono
According to the PJ files, the CCTV footage from the Paradiso beach restaurant showing the Tapas group minus the McCanns, was said to be the period between 17:31H and 18:36H.  According to Kate McCann's account in her book, she finished her run by 5:30 pm (17:30H) and caught up with Gerry and the children at the Tapas restaurant, so how could she have been seen running past by the rest of the group when they were at the Paradiso? Someone is telling porky pies.

To my mind, it's impossible trying to make any sense of the groups movements during the week - so many contradictions and such gibberish recorded during the rogatory interviews.  I don't expect anyone to have a perfect memory as regards timings etc. but Kate McCann ties her return in with the children's high tea at the Tapas restaurant, so whichever way you look at it she couldn't possibly have been running past the Paradiso restaurant between 17:31H and 18:36H.

It's all designed to place specific people at specific places at specific times - the question is why an alibi!  Why was it necessary to place the McCann family in and around the Ocean Club on Thursday 3rd May as opposed to any other day of the week after Sunday 29th April?  Was it a lead-up to the grand finale scheduled for 10:00 pm on the night of the 3rd May just a few hours before the groups scheduled return to England?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 23.10.16 20:49

@G-Unit wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@sandancer wrote:This bit really caught my attention 
" But you know at the time we also made the comment that you know you were more likely to, to sort of be harmed by someone you know rather than , rather than some random stranger and it's ridiculous " .
Hmm !
Classic Freudian slip!

Apropos of your comments up-page about the absence of group togetherness throughout the week, the most extraordinary incident in my view is the Thursday afternoon trip to the beach, leaving the McCann family ostracized - bit mean isn't it?  My guess, it was orchestrated to divert attention away from the McCann family and whatever they were up to.  Bit of a co-incidence that it was the only occasion where CCTV footage can confirm where they were but not where the McCanns were.

According to the groups witness statements the holiday started in great detail, the following days are glossed over until Thursday 3rd when another flurry of contradictory information is forthcoming - the very day prepared for action ?!?
Jeremy Wilkins saw Gerry on Thursday but his diagram is a bit difficult to make out. It may be up near the Millenium. No time given;

Doesn't that incident relate to the encounter outside apartment 5a when Gerry McCann went to check on the children - as recorded during Jeremy Wilkins deposition of 7th May 2007?





ETA:  Snipped from Jeremy Wilkin's witness statement of 7th May 2007..

I have drawn a map of the complex and marked an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday evening ' JW 1. I have also produced a map, from the holiday brochure also with an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday ' JW 2.'

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.10.16 21:25

@kaz wrote:First of all I'd like to point out that I don't have a static theory about this case and am open to any other contributor's ideas. I agree that there is a good case for something happening to Madeleine before Thursday but I am not totally convinced.

REPLY: Thank you for explaining. We are all here for the truth. I think the solution to becoming convinced that a major incident occurred much earlier in the week is to read and re-read the major contributions made by long-term researchers like PeterMac (date of Last Photo) and HideHo (lack of credible sightings after Sunday) and of course the very detailed arguments put forward in Richard Hall's third film. And without mentioning any particular CMOMM member by name, you will no doubt have seen many other posters on here who agree with their views.

Another point to bear in mind is the illusionist's trick which is "Look over there, don't look here".

Take the killing of Stuart Lubbock. Even today, people speak of him as 'the boy who drowned in Michael Barrymore's swimming pool".  That's because his killers deliberately created a false scenario, by opening up the outdoor swimming pool after Stuart was killed, and taking his body out to the side of the swimming pool, and - just before the ambulance and police were called, throwing some buckets of water over him and forcing water down the dead boy's throat to make it look as though he had drowned. So successful was this strategy that despite overwhelming evidence by three of the country's top pathologists that Stuart had been asphyxiated and had died from heart failure due to a vicious, violent sexual attack whilst his nose and mouth were covered, still today the media refer to him as the boy who drowned in Barrymore's pool. It's all written up in my book on the case.

Similarly with the killing of Lee Balkwell, who was murdered in a violent attack just after 12 midnight on 17/18 July 2002. He was then placed half-way into a concrete mixer which the murderers then switched on to mask his appalling injuries.  The murderers - and the corrupt police who have supported them throughout - were able to plausibly claim that this was a 'tragic accident' whilst Lee and another, so it was claimed, been working on the lorry all evening until 1.03am, when the ambulance was called. This was despite every single line of evidence (CCTV and a tachograph for example) showing that work on the lorry had stopped at 9.15pm, four hours earlier. 

In this case, we were being asked to look at 1.03am at the time of his death, when in fact it was an hour earlier.

In this case, we might ask: are we being asked to look at 6pm to 10pm as the time when everything happened to Madeleine, when in fact there was a major incident at a wholly different time.           

As 'Roxyroo' points out the crèche records were indeed a shambles. Now if these records were just an attempt at a cover up and whatever befell Madeleine happened early in that week, wouldn't a better job have been made of it? There would have been plenty of time.

REPLY: One thing to bear in mind at all times is that Cat Baker was in sole charge of the 'Lobsters' (Madeleine's) group that week. Suppose just for one moment that there had been a major incident that week on the Sunday. We have evidence that she may already have known the McCanns. She would be in a very good position to facilitate false entries being made for the rest of the week.     

Also I just can't get my head around so many people having to be liars and part of the big deception if Madeleine really did go missing at the beginning of  that week. 

REPLY: I am not sure that very many people would have to be involved. Suppose for the sake of argument that Cat Baker was actually hired to 'babysit' the children on the Sunday night - and suppose that (to quote Russell O'Brien) 'something terrible' or 'something tragic' happened to Madeleine on her watch. I have no evidence for this, by the way, though there is one blogger (I forget who) who tries to assert as a fact that Cat Baker really was minding the children that night.

In such a scenario, probably the only people who would need to know about and be involved in an elaborate cover-up would be Cat Baker, one very senior member of the Ocean Club (possibly the Manager) or Mark Warner - and of course the Tapas 9. Hardly anybody else would need to know, except that we do have some clear of evidence of preparation by others, Nuno Lourenco's fabricated allegation against Wojchiech Krokowski being a prime example.
    

That something happened early on Thursday evening makes so much more sense to me...

REPLY: But not to many very experienced Madeleine McCann researchers

...but I do appreciate  that lots of other members think differently. Until  I am totally convinced, I am sitting on the fence with this one.

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by G-Unit on 23.10.16 21:27

Russell says he went to check the McCann children on Sunday 29th, using the unlocked patio door. He rather spoils it by saying he checked Matt's daughter using the front door keys. Of course Matt was allegedly in his apartment on Sunday night, so no check was needed. He doesn't make it clear, but things seem to have changed as the week went on. As always, you have to read between the lines. I have bolded and also added a comment in brackets;

It says ‘I checked the McCANN’s apartment’, erm, kind of implies I may have gone in.  I think that I made a check to the apartments at that point, which would have been in, certainly by this point, it was generally a listen outside with the others and a check on your own”......but I think by this part of the week, certainly on my, from my, my own, [point of view?] when I went back I generally went into our apartment and then we’d just have a listen at the shutters on the others”......Certainly I didn’t end up, you know, after that first Sunday night, I don’t  really recall going into the other people’s apartments with any, at all really, I think it was largely a listen to make sure all was quiet and a check on your own.  And everyone was doing this, with a listen outside.  So there were fairly regular listens and then slightly less regular visits inside by people, you know, individual, erm, parents. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by BlueBag on 23.10.16 21:38

@G-Unit wrote:Russell says he went to check the McCann children on Sunday 29th, using the unlocked patio door.
In complete contradiction of other statements where they said they didn't check other people's children until May 3rd.

What's that?


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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by worriedmum on 23.10.16 21:44

Very 'erm' indeed...

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.10.16 22:23

@BlueBag wrote:
@G-Unit wrote:Russell says he went to check the McCann children on Sunday 29th, using the unlocked patio door.
In complete contradiction of other statements where they said they didn't check other people's children until May 3rd.
A Freudian slip to end all Freudian slips!

I don't think PeterMac, HideHo, Richard Hall, Jill, sharonl, hentie, Tania Cadogan and Verdi, to mention but a few, will be too surprised to be reminded of that! It's one more obvious pointer to Sunday 29th April as the date we should be really interested in - moreover the same date as that most mysterious booking of the Tapas restaurant for the rest of the week...

...By Rachael Oldfield, was it? Or a 'tall, thin man'?

Bit like the confusion about who took the Tennis Balls Photo

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 23.10.16 23:09

@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when.  

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.10.16 23:21

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when?  
Yes. Not forgetting what happened (allegedly) after the controversial 'high tea'.

Kate McCann  maintains in her book 'madeleine' that that Madeleine was 'pale, worn out and exhausted' (a claim not recorded by any of the other alleged witnesses, Gerry McCann, Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington) and elsewhere says that she alone carried her 2-to-3 stone daughter whilst Gerry went along with the twins and opened the from door so that she could come in the back door.

Yet one more example of how the McCanns appear to have contrived never to be together with the twins after Sunday - because if they were seen with just the twins, sooner or later someone would have said: 'Where is Madeleine?'

(Just as little Amelie did a few days later when she saw Mummy and Daddy holding up 'Maddie's jammies' )

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 23.10.16 23:41

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when?  
Yes. Not forgetting what happened (allegedly) after the controversial 'high tea'.

Kate McCann  maintains in her book 'madeleine' that that Madeleine was 'pale, worn out and exhausted' (a claim not recorded by any of the other alleged witnesses, Gerry McCann, Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington) and elsewhere says that she alone carried her 2-to-3 stone daughter whilst Gerry went along with the twins and opened the from door so that she could come in the back door.

Yet one more example of how the McCanns appear to have contrived never to be together with the twins after Sunday - because if they were seen with just the twins, sooner or later someone would have said: 'Where is Madeleine?'

(Just as little Amelie did a few days later when she saw Mummy and Daddy holding up 'Maddie's jammies' )
Quite so - and still no independent witness, or even friend, to verify Madeleine's presence at high-tea. 

One taking the twins to their daycare and the other taking Madeleine to her daycare, no apparent routine, just haphazard and very early on by a shortcut suggested by one of the group of friends.  So Kate McCann leaves the apartment by the patio door with the children, Gerry McCann leaves the apartment by the front door and somewhere around the block they meet up to take the children to their respective daycare via a shortcut?

It makes no sense.

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Nina on 24.10.16 0:15

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when?  
Yes. Not forgetting what happened (allegedly) after the controversial 'high tea'.

Kate McCann  maintains in her book 'madeleine' that that Madeleine was 'pale, worn out and exhausted' (a claim not recorded by any of the other alleged witnesses, Gerry McCann, Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington) and elsewhere says that she alone carried her 2-to-3 stone daughter whilst Gerry went along with the twins and opened the from door so that she could come in the back door.

Yet one more example of how the McCanns appear to have contrived never to be together with the twins after Sunday - because if they were seen with just the twins, sooner or later someone would have said: 'Where is Madeleine?'

(Just as little Amelie did a few days later when she saw Mummy and Daddy holding up 'Maddie's jammies' )
Quite so - and still no independent witness, or even friend, to verify Madeleine's presence at high-tea. 

One taking the twins to their daycare and the other taking Madeleine to her daycare, no apparent routine, just haphazard and very early on by a shortcut suggested by one of the group of friends.  So Kate McCann leaves the apartment by the patio door with the children, Gerry McCann leaves the apartment by the front door and somewhere around the block they meet up to take the children to their respective daycare via a shortcut?

It makes no sense.
So Kate, alone, manages 2 small toddlers and a slightly older child over that deathly baby gate, down those stairs? If so she is wonder woman.

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 24.10.16 1:01

@Nina wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when?  
Yes. Not forgetting what happened (allegedly) after the controversial 'high tea'.

Kate McCann  maintains in her book 'madeleine' that that Madeleine was 'pale, worn out and exhausted' (a claim not recorded by any of the other alleged witnesses, Gerry McCann, Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington) and elsewhere says that she alone carried her 2-to-3 stone daughter whilst Gerry went along with the twins and opened the from door so that she could come in the back door.

Yet one more example of how the McCanns appear to have contrived never to be together with the twins after Sunday - because if they were seen with just the twins, sooner or later someone would have said: 'Where is Madeleine?'

(Just as little Amelie did a few days later when she saw Mummy and Daddy holding up 'Maddie's jammies' )
Quite so - and still no independent witness, or even friend, to verify Madeleine's presence at high-tea. 

One taking the twins to their daycare and the other taking Madeleine to her daycare, no apparent routine, just haphazard and very early on by a shortcut suggested by one of the group of friends.  So Kate McCann leaves the apartment by the patio door with the children, Gerry McCann leaves the apartment by the front door and somewhere around the block they meet up to take the children to their respective daycare via a shortcut?

It makes no sense.
So Kate, alone, manages 2 small toddlers and a slightly older child over that deathly baby gate, down those stairs? If so she is wonder woman.
It didn't escape my notice thumbsup .

Taking the obvious route to leave the apartment i.e. the front door, not only is the interior stairway less hazardous than the narrow exterior stone stairway but there was also what appears to be a lift..

         

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by skyrocket on 24.10.16 9:27

@Verdi - the photo you have posted is of the foyer at the 'front' of block 5. The O'Brien's and Oldfield's ground floor apartments are accessed from this area. Up the stairs/lift on the first floor is 5H (Payne's apartment - so we are told, but may have been the McCann's). The McCann's apartment (?) 5A is situated on the ground floor and is accessed by a short dead end walkway, left of the foyer if you are looking at the building from the car park. There are no stairs/lift to access the main front door (5A) from the car park side, the only stairs are the ones to the back/patio entrance (as the apartment site is sloping). Far easier for any parent with 3 small children to walk round the building to the front door as there would be no stairs at all to negotiate.

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by bobbin on 24.10.16 9:32

@Verdi wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
And there's another very relevant point; there seems to be no credible sighting of the five together after Sunday. The witness statements seem to suggest that the McCanns left and returned to the apartment separately, a fact consistent with just one parent taking the twins to and from the crèche, but Madeleine being absent. It's yet another line of evidence that points us to Sunday as the day something momentous may have happened.

Add to that, the extraordinary claim made by Gerry McCann that during the daytime, his wife left with the children by the patio door whilst he remained in the apartment, locked the patio door from the inside and then left by the front door.

Why on earth would they do that unless to create a false impression of who was where and when - or rather who was not where and when?  
Yes. Not forgetting what happened (allegedly) after the controversial 'high tea'.

Kate McCann  maintains in her book 'madeleine' that that Madeleine was 'pale, worn out and exhausted' (a claim not recorded by any of the other alleged witnesses, Gerry McCann, Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington) and elsewhere says that she alone carried her 2-to-3 stone daughter whilst Gerry went along with the twins and opened the from door so that she could come in the back door.

Yet one more example of how the McCanns appear to have contrived never to be together with the twins after Sunday - because if they were seen with just the twins, sooner or later someone would have said: 'Where is Madeleine?'

(Just as little Amelie did a few days later when she saw Mummy and Daddy holding up 'Maddie's jammies' )
Quite so - and still no independent witness, or even friend, to verify Madeleine's presence at high-tea. 

One taking the twins to their daycare and the other taking Madeleine to her daycare, no apparent routine, just haphazard and very early on by a shortcut suggested by one of the group of friends.  So Kate McCann leaves the apartment by the patio door with the children, Gerry McCann leaves the apartment by the front door and somewhere around the block they meet up to take the children to their respective daycare via a shortcut?

It makes no sense.
So Kate, alone, manages 2 small toddlers and a slightly older child over that deathly baby gate, down those stairs? If so she is wonder woman.
It didn't escape my notice thumbsup .

Taking the obvious route to leave the apartment i.e. the front door, not only is the interior stairway less hazardous than the narrow exterior stone stairway but there was also what appears to be a lift..

         
The door onto the car park (opposite side of the pool side) was at ground level. No need for negotiating narrow outside stairs or a child safety gate at all on this route. Just a little further to walk.

Kate, with all her energy to go running up the hill to the trig point, and Gerry keeping up with her, would not have minded the extra effort of a few more steps surely. As for the children, they are generally, at least first thing in the morning, full of energy, so would not have minded the longer walk either, would they ?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by Verdi on 24.10.16 12:48

@skyrocket wrote:The McCann's apartment 5A is situated on the ground floor and is accessed by a short dead end walkway
Yes, quite right - my mistake.  I must stop posting at such a late hour, having just read the cleaner's account of witnessing the McCanns leaving apartment 5a en-route for the stairs to an upper floor for lunch I got a bit confused.  Having never been to the Ocean Club and read so many accounts from people who claim they have, the complex seems more obscure than Hampton Court maze.

Whatever, even more reason to question why Kate McCann used the patio door to exit with the children via the hazardous stone steps and even more reason to question why "it felt so safe"!

Going off on a tangent, the shoes the cleaner remembers Madeleine wearing with flashing lights around the soles - I don't recall Kate McCann ever mentioning them along with the rest of Madeleine's holiday wardrobe.  There she is, pictured clearly clutching tennis balls, wearing sandals - wouldn't the trainers have been more suited for a tennis knock about?

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by sandancer on 24.10.16 13:31

So mum with two toddlers and one almost 4 goes out the patio doors on to the balcony, opens the safety gate and takes all 3 down a flight of stone steps ! Is there a hand rail ? The twins would have to be held by their hands negotiating these steps , possibly Madeleine as well, how many hands does Kate have ? 
Meanwhile dad goes happily alone out the front door and waits to meet them ! Give me a break what parents in their right minds would go through this ridiculous pantomime?
Then they allegedly repeat the process when coming back , yet they expect people to believe their charades  huh

The more I read the more I agree with something "terrible " "tragic " happening early on in the week and all the pantomime tales are part of the lead up to 10.00 on 3rd May .

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Re: Tapas 9 Russel O'Brien

Post by G-Unit on 24.10.16 14:15

@sandancer wrote:So mum with two toddlers and one almost 4 goes out the patio doors on to the balcony, opens the safety gate and takes all 3 down a flight of stone steps ! Is there a hand rail ? The twins would have to be held by their hands negotiating these steps , possibly Madeleine as well, how many hands does Kate have ? 
Meanwhile dad goes happily alone out the front door and waits to meet them ! Give me a break what parents in their right minds would go through this ridiculous pantomime?
Then they allegedly repeat the process when coming back , yet they expect people to believe their charades  huh

The more I read the more I agree with something "terrible " "tragic " happening early on in the week and all the pantomime tales are part of the lead up to 10.00 on 3rd May .

No handrail and a child gate opening towards you when going up the steps. I'd like to see one person bring three small children safely up and down these steps. If it were me I wouldn't even think of trying. Kate saw it all as perfectly safe though;

Though I envied David and Fiona their
sea view, being on the ground floor meant we didn’t
have to worry about the children’s safety on a
balcony. [Madeleine]

Look at the drop onto those steps, with handy patio furniture to climb on too, just beyond that railing. Nothing to worry about????


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