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Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.07.16 13:20

Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Cmaryholmes on 15.07.16 13:34

This has to be a wind up.....tea and coffee?

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.07.16 14:05

"Topics will be agreed before hand by all those involved."
----------------------------------------

Well, if that dosen't sound like a Pinky 'list of specific 'questions' ONLY'........ i don't know what does!

Having said that, I will go!

I'm pretty sure though, the 'pros' will find 'something' to 'bar' ME! laugh

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Hobs on 15.07.16 14:12

@jeanmonroe wrote:Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!
Person not little girl?
Again with the distancing language

aaagh

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.07.16 15:01

Hobs: you think 'that's distancing'?

UR4: "What evidence do you have that there was an abduction? Can I ask this question because you say that Amaral doesn't have..."

KM: "Because I know. I was there, I found my daughter gone. I know more than you do. I know what I saw."

UR4: "I'm not saying that... I don't know anything, I'm just standing from a point of view where I don't know who to believe; I just want evidence, like you say".

GM: "Where... where, you know... where is... where... where is... where is... where is the child? We're looking for that evidence. Where is the child? What OTHER explanation can explain how she's not here"
------------------------------

The 'loving' father can't even bring himself to say 'Madeleine'

"where is the CHILD?"
"how SHE'S not here"

The "SHE/CHILD" is called Madeleine, Mr McCann..........MADELEINE!

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Nina on 15.07.16 18:31

@Hobs wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!
Person not little girl?
Again with the distancing language

aaagh
They think it sounds posh.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements on 15.07.16 19:38

@Nina wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!
Person not little girl?
Again with the distancing language

aaagh
They think it sounds posh.
Sounds like they were writing a reference for her for a job.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Verdi on 15.07.16 20:46

@Hobs wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!
Person not little girl?
Again with the distancing language

aaagh
Isn't that just a term of phrase?  I think I prefer the expression life-enriching little person to life enriching little girl.  Little girl is impersonal whilst little person is like calling a son little man - not unusual.

As I said before, in everyday conversation I use expressions that could put me behind bars if a forensic linguist analyzed my words.

prisoner

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.07.16 21:00

@Verdi

"As I said before, in everyday conversation I use expressions that could put me behind bars if a forensic linguist analyzed my words."
--------------------------

"GO TO JAIL: Go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200." notme

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Hobs on 15.07.16 23:18

@jeanmonroe wrote:Hobs: you think 'that's distancing'?

UR4: "What evidence do you have that there was an abduction? Can I ask this question because you say that Amaral doesn't have..."

KM: "Because I know. I was there, I found my daughter gone. I know more than you do. I know what I saw."

UR4: "I'm not saying that... I don't know anything, I'm just standing from a point of view where I don't know who to believe; I just want evidence, like you say".

GM: "Where... where, you know... where is... where... where is... where is... where is the child? We're looking for that evidence. Where is the child? What OTHER explanation can explain how she's not here"
------------------------------

The 'loving' father can't even bring himself to say 'Madeleine'

"where is the CHILD?"
"how SHE'S not here"

The "SHE/CHILD" is called Madeleine, Mr McCann..........MADELEINE!
So much sensitivity regarding where Maddie is and so much distancing.

Maddie never stood a chance

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Hobs on 15.07.16 23:26

@Verdi wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Another little 'gem' from Mc OFB 'page'

"Madeleine is a warm, life-enriching little person and will never fail we're sure, to bring joy into the life of anyone she may encounter."
--------------------------------------------------

So Madeleine is 'bringing joy' into 'the life' of the paedo/burglator who she 'encountered' and who 'abducted' her, (and hasn't 'harmed') is she, Mr&Mrs McCan't?

'That' must be 'good to know', for you, G£K!
Person not little girl?
Again with the distancing language

aaagh
Isn't that just a term of phrase?  I think I prefer the expression life-enriching little person to life enriching little girl.  Little girl is impersonal whilst little person is like calling a son little man - not unusual.

As I said before, in everyday conversation I use expressions that could put me behind bars if a forensic linguist analyzed my words.

prisoner
The expected given the case is that they would use up close language such as little girl, my daughter, Maddie.

Instead they do not even give her the honor of a gender, she is a little person, genderless and nameless.
This is unexpected in any normal case let alone in a missing child case.
The maternal bond being naturally strong in a normal mother would  have her using close and personal language, this is her missing daughter being discussed.

Instead we have the unexpected and concerning language of referring to Maddie as a little person.

This isn't even a one off, it is all part of a pattern from both parents where they minimize the family bond as a unit and distance themselves from being related to Maddie using terms such as  person, the child and so on.

The family dynamics in relation to Maddie and her parents is shockingly poor to non existent.
It explains their language and their behavior, the non searching, the money grabbing, the demeaning of her by her parents and extended family.
It explains why no one wanted her.
It provides for a motive, she wasn't wanted and none of the family wanted her either it seems, so they got rid of her.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Verdi on 15.07.16 23:34

@jeanmonroe wrote:@Verdi

"As I said before, in everyday conversation I use expressions that could put me behind bars if a forensic linguist analyzed my words."
--------------------------

"GO TO JAIL: Go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200." notme

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Verdi on 15.07.16 23:44

@Hobs

I take your point but I find it difficult to differentiate between phraseology used in everyday language being unquestionable and/or acceptable, yet the same being incriminating in particular situations where speech analysis is required.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by bobbin on 16.07.16 8:16

@Verdi wrote:@Hobs

I take your point but I find it difficult to differentiate between phraseology used in everyday language being unquestionable and/or acceptable, yet the same being incriminating in particular situations where speech analysis is required.
It's all in the 'nuances' Verdi.
The same words can be used in many different ways, just ask Pinkie or any politician for that matter.
It's the context that matters, just like the comedey act, 'It's all over Charles'.
What is all over Charles? The spilt icecream? the game is up? I'm finished with you, you weak feeble-minded weed? Take your pick. big grin

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Verdi on 16.07.16 12:36

@bobbin wrote:
@Verdi wrote:@Hobs

I take your point but I find it difficult to differentiate between phraseology used in everyday language being unquestionable and/or acceptable, yet the same being incriminating in particular situations where speech analysis is required.
It's all in the 'nuances' Verdi.
The same words can be used in many different ways, just ask Pinkie or any politician for that matter.
It's the context that matters, just like the comedey act, 'It's all over Charles'.
What is all over Charles? The spilt icecream? the game is up? I'm finished with you, you weak feeble-minded weed? Take your pick. big grin
Crickey, I wouldn't like to be in Charlie's shoes with all those nuances - they'd have him convicted ten times over - or not, depending on who is interpreting.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Hobs on 16.07.16 13:53

@Verdi wrote:@Hobs

I take your point but I find it difficult to differentiate between phraseology used in everyday language being unquestionable and/or acceptable, yet the same being incriminating in particular situations where speech analysis is required.
When analyzing a statement, the analyst first learns what is normal for the subject.
This is from asking them non sensitive questions and letting them speak without interruption.
once the analyst has learned what is normal for the subject such as use of pronouns and tenses (a common one is seen not saw)
The analyst is also looking for the expected  in that given situation, however it may be phrased.
In a missing child case, the expected would be concern for the child.
The maternal/paternal bond although the maternal bond is usually stronger.
The tenses used and whether they are appropriate given the passage of time (bearing in mind that mothers tend to believe/hope their child is still alive far longer than the father or others)
Calling out to the missing child.
Talking about the child in a positive manner.
Telling us what they are like, what they like to do, their character etc.

The unexpected would be referring to them using distancing language such as child/person.
Not referring to them by name or nickname.
Subtle demeaning implying perhaps they deserved what happened to them.
Not calling out to the child.
Not taking ownership of the child with pronouns such as my/we/our.
Use of past tense especially early on such as a couple of days or weeks even, especially from the mother who is usually the last to accept the death of a child.
Parentification of a child such as they prepare their own food, look after younger siblings indication perhaps the child has learned to do such through need especially if the parents are substance abusers and tend to neglect their children.This is often praised by the parents as in look how clever and grown up my child is, she makes breakfast for herself and her siblings.
Also things like they will go to anyone for a cuddle , showing a lack of stranger awareness which is unexpected in young children who normally tend to be shy with non family members.

We always assume the subject is speaking the truth, this way anything unexpected will stand out and we can probe deeper.

If you look at the language used by parents of a genuinely missing child and then compare it to the language used by a guilty parents in relation to their missing child, you will see obvious differences.

There will be sensitivity in their language as they seek to avoid incriminating themselves, there will be minimization, omission, temporal lacuna, self editing, stuttering even.
Ther language will show deception by form, a long buld up to what happened, the actual event, and a longer post event.
Usually a truthful statement will be along the lines of 25% pre event, 50% event, 25% post event.
An untruthful statement could be along the lines of 50% pre event, 20% event,30% post event.

Just because someone uses a word or phrase that could imply guilt or guilty knowledge, t doesn't mean they are guilty.
We flag it for further investigation.
It could be that it is due to the passage of time, it could be that LE have given them cause to believe something has happened such as a missing child being dead.
Statistics would show the likelihood of death.
Months or years could cause them to believe their child is dead.
Evidence found.
Suspicious language or behavior of someone perhaps known to the parents.

Guilt is not decided based on a single word or action, is is learned  from a pattern of language and behavior that is unexpected.
further investigation of areas shown to be sensitive to the subject will reveal a clearer picture of guilt or innocence.

The subject wants to speak the truth since deception is stressful and the brain doesn't like stress.
The analyst wants the subject to speak the truth.
Let the subject speak freely.
Do not ask compound questions.
Do not introduce new language.
Use only the subject's own words.
Listen carefully to what they say rather than what you think they are saying.
Sensitivity can also be caused by guilt or guilty knowledge of something else not related to the subject of the interview such as infidelity, money problems, substance abuse.
The analyst will learn why there is sensitivity and if it is relevant to the interview or not.

The truth will always out.
If you are guilty you will tell us.
If you are innocent you will tell us.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by Verdi on 16.07.16 15:27

@Hobs

Again thank you for finding the time to reply with such detail - very interesting as always.

As regards the McCanns behaviour, even a layperson must be able to see the glaring peculiarities exhibited by a mother and father who are said to have lost a child.  They must be every professionals dream study - a complete project.

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Re: Pro's versus anti's to battle it out online ?

Post by sandancer on 16.07.16 17:11

We really know very little about Madeleine, her likes and dislikes favourite food or something she would not eat !
Favourite story/book/TV programme ( sorry don't believe the Dr Who ,Harry Potter stuff , at 3 years old ?)
Her first word, first step funny little things they all come out with the ones you remind them of when they grow up !
Best friends , favourite games toys , ( cuddlecat ? ) What made her happy , what made her sad did she like to hold hands , have cuddles ?
We know she had colic, was a screamer , could throw a tantrum had a sleep chart , but the real Madeleine the missing Madeleine they tell us nothing about ! All parents love to share these things about their children but from Kate and Gerry , nothing ! Not even in the book , but then that's not about Madeleine is it ?

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