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Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

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Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.07.16 18:09

Just two weeks ago, we woke up, with a bit of a start, to news of 'Brexit'.

Since then, the Prime Minister has given notice of resignation, the front runner for the next Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has pulled out of the race, most of the Shadow Cabinet has resigned, 4.12 million have signed a petition basically calling for a re-run of the referendum, and there have been a variety of reactions and statements...
...from a spate of hate incidents to a rise in the stock market...
...from a 'March for Europe' supported by tens of thousands to Theresa May's 'Brexit means Brexit'...
...and from calls by Andrea Leadsom and many E.U. leaders to trigger Article 50 now, to people like Tony Blair and Dominic Grieve urging people to challenge the result, and the words of David Lammy, Labour MP for Tottenham, whose reaction was:

"We can stop this madness and bring this nightmare to an end through a vote in Parliament. Our sovereign Parliament needs to now vote on whether we should exit the EU. The referendum was an advisory, non-binding referendum. The Leave campaign's platform has already unravelled and some people wish they hadn't voted to Leave. Parliament now needs to decide whether we should go forward with Brexit, and there should be a vote in Parliament next week. Let us not destroy our economy on the basis of lies and the hubris of Boris Johnson".

So I thought I would open this thread so that we can all monitor what is happening and what people are doing and saying by way of reaction to Brexit. 

------------------------- 

Of course, I am going to open with some positive news. Here is the movement in the Stock Exchange over the past month, ending yesterday (source: BBC):




From this chart, we can see the following:

1. About a month ago (12 June), the stock market was down at about 5,900 points
2. Since then, it has been generally rising
3. Sharp fall on 24 & 27 June after the Brexit result was announced   
4. Sharp recovery the four days afterwards (Tues 28th to Fri 1st July)
5. Stock market continuing at around 6,500 points...and...

Today it's gone up another 100 or so points to around 6,600.

You'd think it was something the BBC would tell us about, wouldn't you?

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by kaz on 08.07.16 18:38

I've just been watching some old Question Time episodes ( including the unbelievable Izzard one ) that touch on the referendum and it's really brought home to me what a shock the establishment must have received with the Brexit vote. It's an eye opening exercise , believe me.   How very dare the hoi polloi think for themselves . I'm just so  apprehensive that our demand for freedom from the EU shackles will be supposedly respected in word but not in deed.  I pray it won't be just another 'stitch up.' How can an unelected , unaccountable , money wasting 'government' ( in all but name) be to our benefit ? How can 'one size fits all' laws be to our advantage? How can 28 leaders around a table all agree when each one is  actually trying to get a good deal for his  own country? There can't be many leaders like Blair who just gives it away for the greater good. ( our money, not his! )

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.07.16 19:34

@kaz wrote:I've just been watching some old Question Time episodes ( including the unbelievable Izzard one ) that touch on the referendum and it's really brought home to me what a shock the establishment must have received with the Brexit vote. It's an eye opening exercise , believe me.   How very dare the hoi polloi think for themselves . I'm just so  apprehensive that our demand for freedom from the EU shackles will be supposedly respected in word but not in deed.  I pray it won't be just another 'stitch up.' How can an unelected , unaccountable , money wasting 'government' ( in all but name) be to our benefit ? How can 'one size fits all' laws be to our advantage? How can 28 leaders around a table all agree when each one is  actually trying to get a good deal for his  own country? There can't be many leaders like Blair who just gives it away for the greater good. ( our money, not his! )
Thank you @ Kaz for those IMO very accurate observations.

The establishment is indeed in a state of shock.

Cameron had prepared a speech in 2015 in case he lost the General Election. He never needed it. He never prepared a speech for if he lost the referdume though. Over-confidence. Hubris.

Meanwhile, in 'Camp Leave', Boris Johnson and Michael Gove went early to bed and slept, missing all the early morning excitement for those of us who stayed up and watched agog, while after the first two results (Gibraltar and a Scottish count) Nigel Farage said: "I fear we have lost, but at least we came close.

P.S.   Within the past few minutes I have just been sent this from a well-known journalist:

"...as I have been trying to explain...since 2012, invoking Article 50 is the ONLY legal way in which we can leave the EU...I am told on good authority that Mrs May has no intention of wanting to leave, but is hoping for just another version of Cameron's bogus re-negotiation which will leave us in the EU while it moves on to a restructuring which will leave us in an even more hopeless position than we are in already..."

I will put it on the Leadsom v. May thread as well

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Verdi on 08.07.16 21:35

I take little or no notice of the stock exchange.  There only need be an earth tremor in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and the world stock market go into melt down.  Immediately following the referendum results, the millions of UK nationals abroad for whatever reason at the time, couldn't access foreign currency - such is the generally unstable nature of the worlds financial market.  Anyone with a few quid invested will know return on their capital has been abysmal since the last financial crisis and that hasn't changed despite the fluctuating market. 

The realistic effects of Brexit will of course not be known until it happens,  if ever -  right now I have my doubts.  I maintain the view that it's a political issue pure and simple and has no bearing on public opinion.

Cynic of Tunbridge Wells.

ETA:  Stockbrokers - whizz kid gamblers always with the country estate and Ferrari in mind.

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Richard IV on 08.07.16 22:00

I really shouldn`t listen to the BBC  no

I`ve just turned Any Questions off in a rage again - that b***** Jonathan Dimbleby allowed an audience member to ask the question "Is it alright to exaggerate or tell lies on one`s CV?"  Obviously a dig at Andrea Leadsom which Dimbleby proceeded to reinforce to the panel as if it was a fact that AL had lied.  At least 2 panel members, thankfully, said they did not know if AL had in fact lied.

Anyway this is AL on the World At One yesterday explaining - and Dimbleby should have been aware of this.

From 13.00 mins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p040qdk6#play

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by kaz on 08.07.16 22:21

@Richard IV wrote:I really shouldn`t listen to the BBC  no

I`ve just turned Any Questions off in a rage again - that b***** Jonathan Dimbleby allowed an audience member to ask the question "Is it alright to exaggerate or tell lies on one`s CV?"  Obviously a dig at Andrea Leadsom which Dimbleby proceeded to reinforce to the panel as if it was a fact that AL had lied.  At least 2 panel members, thankfully, said they did not know if AL had in fact lied.

Anyway this is AL on the World At One yesterday explaining - and Dimbleby should have been aware of this.

From 13.00 mins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p040qdk6#play
The BBC should be renamed TFE. The Fourth Estate in action. I too loathe the BBC and find my blood pressure going sky high when I listen to its blatant manipulative propaganda. The good news is very few people have any respect for the rubbish it churns out these days.  The British Bull **** Company  indeed!

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by whatsupdoc on 09.07.16 19:44

The government has rejected a petition signed by more than 4.1 million people calling for a second EU referendum.
An email to those who signed the petition said the prime minister and government had "been clear that this was a once in a generation vote".
It said the decision "must be respected", adding: "We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU".
The UK voted to leave the EU by 52% to 48% in last month's referendum.

'Going to stick'

It comes as US President Barack Obama said he believed the UK would quit the European Union despite speculation the vote for Brexit could somehow be reversed.
"I think we have to assume that a referendum having been passed with a lot of attention, a lengthy campaign and relatively high participation rates is going to stick," he told a news conference at the end of a Nato summit in Warsaw.
The online petition gained more signatures than any other on the parliamentary website in the wake of the vote on 23 June.
It stated it was set up by William Oliver Healey and called for the government to hold a second referendum because less than 60% of the vote was in favour of Brexit and the turnout was below 75%.
In its official response to signatories, the Foreign Office said the law which set the rules for the referendum did not specify minimum conditions on turnout or margin of victory.

'Press the government'

It added that the referendum was "one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say".
The email said the petition would be considered for a debate by the Petitions Committee because it had received more than 100,000 signatures.
The committee is made up of 11 cross-party MPs and "almost always" debates petitions which reach 100,000 signatures.
It previously investigated the petition for fraud, removing 77,000 signatures which were found to be false.
The referendum saw 17.4 million (51.9%) votes cast to leave the EU, compared with 16.1 million (48.1%) for remain, with a turnout of 72.2%, according to the Electoral Commission.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36754376

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Verdi on 09.07.16 21:43

This is scaremongering propaganda on an industrial scale..

The millennials with the most to lose from Brexit

Many Europeans living and working in the UK are now facing uncertain career paths, thanks to Brexit. But young people stand to lose out the most, writes Renuka Rayasam.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20160707-the-millennials-with-the-most-to-lose-from-brexit

ACHTUNG !!!

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"BREXIT may not happen" - Italian Foreign Minister:

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.07.16 23:17

"BREXIT may not happen" - Italian Foreign Minister:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36753697

He says there have been 'many examples over the past 20 years' where peoples or governments in the E.U. have 'changed their minds' after a referendum result

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by whatsupdoc on 10.07.16 6:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:"BREXIT may not happen" - Italian Foreign Minister:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36753697

He says there have been 'many examples over the past 20 years' where peoples or governments in the E.U. have 'changed their minds' after a referendum result

I saw this yesterday and I think this clip is another example of sensationalism. The interviewer pushing the interviewee who then says in other countries a referendum result has been changed by another referendum or otherwise. He did say it was not up to him or Italy.

Short of a cosmic disaster, Brexit should go ahead without petitions for a second referendum clouding the issue.

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.07.16 8:47

Over the weekend there have been TWO major articles, one in the Observer, and one in the Guardian, setting out a powerful case that we should reverse the referendum 'BREXIT' vote.

The first, in the Observer, is headlined:

 "LET THE PEOPLE SPEAK AGAIN: IF THE U.K. HAD A 'DO-OVER', BRITAIN WOULD REMAIN"

http://observer.com/2016/07/let-the-people-speak-again-if-uk-had-a-do-over-britain-would-remain/

It basically recites various opinion polls conducted in the two weeks since the Referendum and argues that the opinion poll surveys 'trump' the ACTUAL vote!  Another highly undemocratic argument from the defeated 'Remain' side.

The second article is by Lady Williams - who in 1981, when Labour lurched sharply to the left under left-winger Michael Foot, helped to form the short-lived Social Democratic Party, which eventually merged with the Liberal Party to form the Liberal Democrat Party, which was nearly wiped out in the General Election last year. I'll reproduce the whole article, which basically says that if Andrea Leadsom wins the Conservative leadership, a new party of 'moderate', 'pro-E.U.' Labour and Conservative MPs should be formed:

QUOTE

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/shirley-williams

Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed.

Senior players in the parties have discussed founding a new centrist grouping in the mould of the Social Democratic party (SDP) should the two main parties polarise, according to the minister. Talks should be taken seriously, though they are still at an early stage, according to the source.

“There have been talks between Labour and Tory MPs about a new party,” the minister said. “A number of my colleagues would not feel comfortable in a party led by Andrea Leadsom.”

It is understood that MPs in both parties who campaigned to remain in the European Union believe there is an opportunity to build on the newly founded relationships between centrist MPs in both parties made before the EU referendum.

A Tory party source said Labour and Conservative MPs who campaigned in favour had become closer during the campaign and increasingly come to regard themselves as “a tribe”.

“Nothing will happen until the Tory leadership election, but people are talking about this in the tearooms [in parliament],” the source said.

A senior Labour party source confirmed that at least one Conservative minister and one of the shadow cabinet ministers who resigned last week had been involved in discussions about such a reshaping of British politics.

“There is a feeling that there might have to be a new party at the centre of British politics,” he said. “It’s early days, but the conversations are at a pretty high level.”

The suggestion comes as the Liberal Democrat peer Shirley Williams demands a central role for all pro-EU parties at Westminster in shaping the UK’s relationship with the EU. She warns that, without a cross-party consensus on the final deal, the country could fall apart in bitter post-Brexit division and acrimony.

Williams, who was one of the Labour “gang of four” who broke away from Labour in 1981 to form the SDP, says that Labour under Corbyn is in disarray and unable to provide effective opposition as the UK plans for Brexit – the biggest, most far-reaching challenge for the country and Europe in a generation.

In an article in the Observer that has strong echoes of an open letter she wrote to the Guardian 35 years ago, about the Labour party’s desperate plight after it voted to quit the European Community in 1981, she calls for all those on the pro-EU centre-left at Westminster to join forces with the SNP and pro-EU Tories to stamp their mark on any Brexit deal.

Their joint mission, she argues, must be to ensure that the 48.1% who voted to remain on 23 June have their share of input into the eventual deal after what was a knife-edge referendum result.

If there is not a willingness on both sides to compromise, she suggests the union with Scotland will be at an end and a rump UK will be left disunited and scarred.

Over the next two years the consequences of our departure from the EU will become clear and disturbing

Shirley Williams

Her comments reflect a growing view at Westminster that, following the 50.9% [er, 51.9% - T..B.] to 48.1% vote for Leave – after a campaign in which the Out camp made promises, many of which they now admit will be difficult to deliver the views of those on the Remain side must be respected when the future of the country is determined.

Williams says the answer is for a cross-party committee to be established in parliament involving Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems, the Greens and pro-EU Tories, which would have to approve any final deal negotiated on the UK’s future EU relationship [No mention here of UKIP which got 4 million votes at the last election - T.B.] .

She writes: “With Labour in such disarray, how do we ensure that our future, long-term relationship with the European Union truly reflects the range of disparate opinion in this country, in a way that will avoid the referendum result leaving an appalling legacy of division? Over the next two years the consequences of our departure from the EU will become clear and disturbing.

“Two things are crucial. First, we must see the committed involvement of those representing all sides of the debate in the UK in the renegotiation of our long-term relationship with the EU.

“That means, secondly, that all parties represented in parliament should take part in a monitoring committee to oversee the negotiations as they proceed.

“Parties that supported staying in the EU must be part of this committee, including Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the Greens, as well as the pro-Remain element of the Conservative party.”

The impact of the decision to leave is only just dawning, Williams says, noting: “With every passing day, the problems confronting the new prime minister multiply.”

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by plebgate on 10.07.16 9:18

They can print all the articles they want and go and form another party we have voted out and out means out.

Do the remainers who might form another party really think that the people outside of London will vote for them.   Dream on, dream on.

They cannot get it into their heads that nobody cares about them or their views outside of their own little bubble.

Angela Eagle, who would vote for her?   IMO she is to the ordinary voter the female equivalent of Michael Foot and we all know how unelectable he was.

Dream on.

I read last night that Ireland are asking for another referendum.

Why dont the remainers just go and live in any country of their choice in Europe and stop taking our money on the gravy train?

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by bobbin on 10.07.16 10:22

@Richard IV wrote:I really shouldn`t listen to the BBC  no

I`ve just turned Any Questions off in a rage again - that b***** Jonathan Dimbleby allowed an audience member to ask the question "Is it alright to exaggerate or tell lies on one`s CV?"  Obviously a dig at Andrea Leadsom which Dimbleby proceeded to reinforce to the panel as if it was a fact that AL had lied.  At least 2 panel members, thankfully, said they did not know if AL had in fact lied.

Anyway this is AL on the World At One yesterday explaining - and Dimbleby should have been aware of this.

From 13.00 mins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p040qdk6#play
Very impressed. Andrea Leadsom speaks frankly, honestly and doesn't let the interviewer get the upper hand. Perhaps this is why the only way to chop her down is in the papers, or in heavily redacted interviews. At last some 'refreshing' politics in the above clip.

Regarding Mrs. May. She was firmly behind the 'Remain' vote and in my mind would not be rigorous in carrying out the UK referendum vote to Leave.

This is all clearly a great shock for the governments, and I say it in the plural, because so much of the Labour camp has shown itself to be as deeply entrenched in the same Conservative belief which I think is more 'World Government' than 'Representation of the People' and it is forgotten and overlooked, with increasing laws put into (unchallenged) place, that a government, in a democracy, is elected into power, to represent the people and not to feather the nests of the elite/elected, at the misery and cost of the electorate.

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by whatsupdoc on 10.07.16 12:13

Here's a straight-talking favourite of mine...Pat Condell...

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by plebgate on 10.07.16 12:36


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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by MayMuse on 10.07.16 12:41

@whatsupdoc wrote:Here's a straight-talking favourite of mine...Pat Condell...

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM
Brilliantly put, thanks

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by whatsupdoc on 13.07.16 8:36

@whatsupdoc wrote:Here's a straight-talking favourite of mine...Pat Condell...

https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM
I've just noticed this...coincidence or were they reading CMOMM? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36780715

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by sallypelt on 03.09.16 18:33

Thousands of pro-Europe protesters have been marching in London, calling for the UK to strengthen its ties to the continent following the Brexit vote.

The March for Europe aimed to put pressure on the government to delay activating the formal process of leaving the EU.
Pro-Brexit demonstrators also gathered in the capital to form a counter-protest along the marching route.
Rallies are taking place across the UK including in Edinburgh and Birmingham.
A sea of blue EU flags filled Parliament square shortly after 13:00 BST, where protesters sang along to The Beatles' hit Hey Jude, replacing the title words instead with "EU".

Demonstrators were calling for the government to make tight economic, cultural, and social ties with the rest of Europe.


Link to full article below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

Isn't it a sad day when those on the LOSING side can't accept a democratic vote?



Edited to add this snippet from the above article:

"The Met Police said a 26-year-old man "from a group of around four men who attempted to demonstrate against the march" had been arrested".

So, there you have it. Those who attempted to demonstrate AGAINST the march were, according to this article, VERY thin on the ground.

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Re: Positive and negative reactions to BREXIT

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 0:18

No problem - Tony Blair retains faith in the democratic system..

It is possible that Brexit may never happen if public opinion turns against it, former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair has said.


Mr Blair, who campaigned for a vote to stay in the EU, said such an outcome was unlikely but that "the debate continues" despite June's Leave vote.
He told French radio station Europe 1: "Who made the rule that we have to stop the debate now?"


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37248855

What would the UK do without such a stalwart?  Is he in any position to speak publicly about anything?  bignono

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