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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted?

82% 82% 
[ 127 ]
17% 17% 
[ 26 ]
1% 1% 
[ 2 ]
 
Total Votes : 155

Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.10.16 22:56

@BlueBag wrote:As bad as Donald Trump is, the Clintons are worse.
@ BlueBag

Very possible, see e.g. here:

------------------

From The Intercept, an article below by Greenwald titled: "The unrelenting pundit-led effort to delegitimize all negative reporting about Hillary Clinton,



[ltr][Comment by Jerry Coyne:  Greenwald is no fan of Trump, and clearly thinks Hillary is the far superior choice for President. I agree. But he also thinks, and I also agree, that the liberal media has gone overboard in trying to dismiss all criticism of Clinton, either out of some misguided form of Democrat worship, or - as we've I've seen from some readers - out of fear that criticising Clinton could cause her to fall in the polls. (I hope you realize that the latter is no longer an issue.) He especially excoriates Paul Krugman for an unrelenting defense of Hillary (I've noticed that too, and wonder if Krugman isn't angling for some Cabinet or government position), and takes the liberal media to task for the same behavior. I'll give a few excerpts.[/ltr]




That American journalists have dispensed with muted tones and fake neutrality when reporting on Trump is a positive development. He and his rhetoric pose genuine threats, and the U.S. media would be irresponsible if it failed to make that clear. But aggressive investigative journalism against Trump is not enough for Democratic partisans whose voice is dominant in U.S. media discourse. They also want a cessation of any news coverage that reflects negatively on Hillary Clinton. Most, of course, won’t say this explicitly (though some do), but — as the wildly adored Krugman column from [Sept. 5] reflects — they will just reflexively dismiss any such coverage as illegitimate and invalid.



[ltr]. . . . it would be journalistic malpractice of the highest order if the billions of dollars received by the Clintons — both personally and though their various entities — were not rigorously scrutinized and exposed in detail by reporters. That’s exactly what they ought to be doing. The fact that quid pro quos cannot be definitively proven does not remotely negate the urgency of this journalism. That’s because quid pro quos by their nature elude such proof (can anyone prove that Republicans steadfastly support Israel and low taxes because of the millions they get from Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers, or that the Florida attorney general decided not to prosecute Trump because his foundation and his daughter donated to her?). Beyond quid quo pros, the Clintons’ constant, pioneering merger of massive private wealth and political power and influence is itself highly problematic. Nobody forced them to take millions of dollars from the Saudis and Goldman Sachs tycoons and corporations with vested interests in the State Department; having chosen to do so with great personal benefit, they are now confronting the consequences in how the public views such behavior.[/ltr]






[ltr]That Donald Trump is an uber-nationalist, bigotry-exploiting demagogue and unstable extremist does not remotely entitle Hillary Clinton to waltz into the Oval Office free of aggressive journalistic scrutiny. Nor does Trump’s extremism constitute a defense to anything that she’s done. It is absolutely true that Trump has at least as many troublesome financial transactions and entangling relationships as the Clintons do: These donations to the Florida attorney general are among the most corrupt-appearing transactions yet documented. Even worse, Trump has shielded himself from much needed scrutiny by inexcusably refusing to release his tax returns, while much of the reporting about the Clintons is possible only because they have released theirs. All of that is important and should be highlighted.[/ltr]






[ltr]But none of it suggests that anything other than a bright journalistic light is appropriate for examining the Clintons’ conduct...[/ltr]





[ltr]...The reality is that large, pro-Clinton liberal media platforms — such as Vox, and the Huffington Post, and prime-time MSNBC programs, and the columnists and editorialists of the New York Times and the Washington Post, and most major New York-based weekly magazines — have been openly campaigning for Hillary Clinton. I don’t personally see anything wrong with that — I’m glad when journalists shed their faux objectivity; I believe the danger of Trump’s candidacy warrants that; and I hope this candor continues past the November election — but the everyone-is-against-us self-pity from Clinton partisans is just a joke. They are the dominant voices in elite media discourse, and it’s a big reason why Clinton is highly likely to win.[/ltr]






[ltr]That’s all the more reason why journalists should be subjecting Clinton’s financial relationships, associations, and secret communications to as much scrutiny as Donald Trump’s. That certainly does not mean that journalists should treat their various sins and transgressions as equivalent: Nothing in the campaign compares to Trump’s deport-11-million-people or ban-all-Muslim policies, or his attacks on a judge for his Mexican ethnicity, etc. But this emerging narrative that Clinton should not only enjoy the support of a virtually united elite class but also a scrutiny-free march into the White House is itself quite dangerous. Clinton partisans in the media — including those who regard themselves as journalists — will continue to reflexively attack all reporting that reflects negatively on her, but that reporting should nonetheless continue with unrestrained aggression.[/ltr]



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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 24.10.16 8:19

 Donald Trump is an uber-nationalist, bigotry-exploiting demagogue and unstable extremist



Typical of the US Clinton biased media

Donald Trump wants to:


  • Increase  border control
  • Stop illegal immigration
  • Deport illegal immigrants
  • Protect America from enemies foreign and domestic
  • Reinstate the American constitution
  • Show Islam for what it is
  • Get along with Russia.


All good I think.

But obviously not to the globalist media.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 24.10.16 9:32

Brilliant 6 minutes of TRUTH from Trump.



This is why the media are attacking him and not the corrupt Clintons.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by plebgate on 24.10.16 10:53

Yes the media are attacking him because he speaks the truth and they will dig anything up.

I wish someone in UK would stand up and speak up for the British people as Trump has in that video.   

Americans were promised change with Obama but nothing has happened.

Same in UK every election we hear that things will change.   NO they wont until we get someone like Trump who will stand and take insults and give them back.  Not like our lot who think they can please us all with their fake smiles and their nonsense talk and cave in once the papers start criticising them.

I was thinking the other day when Blair told the Nation to put on an extra jumper and turn down the heating and how it would help with global warming blah blah blah.

Little did we know then that the MPs were able to claim all their heating expenses.   I wonder how many of them turned down theirs down and donned an extra jumper whilst living it up in their homes funded by the taxpayer.      

Oh how we need someone here who will truly change things, but it wont happen.

If I were an American I woud vote Trump over Clinton.   He has many faults but I would give him a chance and see if he really will change things.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 28.10.16 8:41

Nigel finds May stance curious and wants us to GET ON WITH IT!



He should still be leader of UKIP and kicking and screaming.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 02.11.16 17:00

I just heard a great quote from Peter Hitchens.

"Before Brexit we were only half in Europe. Now we are half out."

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 7:58

This far from dead.

BBC today...

Article 50 author Lord Kerr says Brexit not inevitable

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37852628

"In a BBC interview, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard said the UK could choose to stay in the EU even after exit negotiations had begun.
He has also renewed calls for either parliament or the public to be given a chance to stop Brexit"


He must be a friend of war criminal Tony Blair.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 10:25

BREAKING NEWS


Government loses Article 50 court fight
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785


What a shock.

Not.

We are not leaving.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.11.16 10:51

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-latest-loses-verdict-theresa-may-article-50-parliament-approval-uk-eu-high-a7394856.html

So the High Court has decided that Parliament must trigger Article 50.

Of course, the decision wil be appealed all the way to (1) the Court of Appeal and (2) finally to the Supreme Court.

I personally will predict that the Supreme Court will NOT agree that Parliament needs to trigger Brexit.

Before the vote, David Cameron warned us specifically that "If you vote to leave, I will trigger Article 50 the very next day".

I would point out again here that if you look up the dictionary definition of a 'Referendum', it runs like this:

A decision referred by Parliament for the people to decide.

I think also I'm right in suggesting that out of 650 MPs, some 440 or more - nearly three quarters - voted REMAIN, proving that on this issue at least they are out of touch with the people, 52% of whom voted LEAVE.

If I am wrong and the Supreme Court does not comprehensively overturn this decision, then we must trust that enough MPs will vote through the triggering of Article 50.   

I still have enough faith that if I am wrong about the Supreme Court, the MPs will vote to trigger Article 50.

If they don't, it would surely be a mortal blow to British democracy



ETA:  From The Guardian, 26 June 2016 (three days after the referendum vote);

QUOTE

When David Cameron delivered his resignation speech outside No 10 on Friday, he said he would leave the task of triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty – the untested procedure governing how an EU member state leaves the bloc – to his successor.

This has prompted much speculation – and a glimmer of hope for those who want Britain to remain in the European Union. Cameron, they argue, had repeatedly said during the campaign that article 50 would be triggered immediately if Vote Leave were to win the Brexit referendum.           

By not doing so, the theory is, and by bequeathing the responsibility to whoever succeeds him, Cameron has handed the next prime minister a poisoned chalice. Given the dramatic reaction to Brexit – on world stock markets, on the foreign exchanges, in Scotland, across Europe – and with the enormity of the consequences of leaving the EU now plain, who will dare pull the trigger?

UNQUOTE


One further thought. We voted LEAVE. This extended Court battle to defy our expressed wishes to LEAVE is simply putting shedloads of cash into the pockets of lawyers who will probably make millions of taxpayers' money over what is a naked attempt to subvert the democratic will of the people.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 11:02

@Tony Bennett wrote:
If I am wrong and the Supreme Court does not comprehensively overturn this decision, then we must trust that enough MPs will vote through the triggering of Article 50.   
No way will they vote leave Tony.

No way.

These people are bought and paid for.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by April28th on 03.11.16 11:39

Debating the conditions of exit is one thing. Effectively handing a mainly biased group of MP's the ability to circumvent the referendum and veto triggering Article 50 indefinitely - or until they force 'by necessity' another referendum, is beyond the pale.

It will be the death of the facade of democracy in the UK.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Verdi on 03.11.16 12:10

There was always going to be a convenient loophole to fall back on - there always is, if it doesn't exist already then create it.

It's so easy for the establishment to bend the rules to fit the agenda.

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HIGH COURT RULES MAY CANNOT TRIGGER ARTICLE 50????

Post by MayMuse on 03.11.16 12:50


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No Brexit nowTheresa

Post by willowthewisp on 03.11.16 13:53

Well isn't this the"Democratic"process at it's finest,17.44 Million voters out voted by 650 MP's,perhaps Guy fawkes was right all along on what a cesspit these Two buildings stand for,"To usurp,power from the people into the hands of a Westminster bubble clique"backed up by a "Bigger Clique?
Captain Pugwash, theme tune plays,Da,Da,"Hoist the flag **sterbates,s**manstaines can't see which way we're going"With Boris playing lead Seaman,how on Earth did he make the foreign Secretary position?

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by kaz on 03.11.16 14:02

Unbelievable. Who DO these people think they are? What do they imagine their job description is I wonder  ? The more I see and hear of our  politicians the more they stink.
They are just a bunch of money grabbing,  ignorant degenerates. There's not one I would trust an inch. Even David Davies who I used to have some respect for managed to back Vaz and my initial doubts about May are rapidly  resurfacing. They might do well to remember the origins of celebrating  November 5th . Nigel, come back. You're job isn't done yet.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 14:29

The way I see it playing out is they will not vote for trigger of Article 50 but will claim "the deal isn't right".

So they will say they are not ignoring the referendum, they just want the right deal.

Same thing in the end because the only deal they will approve is a non-deal worthless compromise that still allows open borders and free movement of immigrants... oh and Britain still coughing up billions and being told what to do.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Verdi on 03.11.16 15:57

There appears to be some confusion in the corridors of power, as to the true meaning of the word 'referendum'.  Generally, at least in the UK, it's thought to be a particular system of voting for a single issue of political policy - if you like for citizens to make political decisions through said voting system.   When you think about it - what UK government is ever likely to allow this to happen?

Looking further into the true definition of the word, although shrouded in controversy and further complicated by differing interpertations from one country to another, when it suits any one UK government a 'referendum' is only intended to gauge public opinion, therefore in no way is it binding on the government to act accordingly.

I think the UK electorate has been conned - AGAIN!

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by kaz on 03.11.16 16:20

How ironic is it that this should all take place in the very month we wear our poppies to honour those who fought and died
for democracy. Makes me feel like wearing the white poppy of surrender .For a very brief moment I saw a very bright future for the UK. Seems we   are no different than any other second rate European state.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by sallypelt on 03.11.16 16:25

Keep voting until the Powers that Be get the result they want. Who can forget Ireland?

Democracy? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 17:10

@sallypelt wrote:Who can forget Ireland?
It was predicted that they would take the UK down the same route.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 17:44

As usual, the BBC News "Have Your Say" is not allowing comments on their top news story.

You can comment on unimportant news stuff though.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by sallypelt on 03.11.16 19:18

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage 8h8 hours ago

"I now fear every attempt will be made to block or delay triggering Article 50. They have no idea level of public anger they will provoke".



Mike_Fabricant



421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies voted to Leave.



Heaven help any MP who chooses to defy their electorate on this.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by BlueBag on 03.11.16 19:26

@sallypelt wrote:Heaven help any MP who chooses to defy their electorate on this.
Doesn't matter what the electorate think.

The sheep will mostly vote along traditional lines and the parties will put the yes-men in for election.

Asking people to vote a simple in/out is one thing.

Asking traditional Labour/Scumservative voters to vote UKIP or something else is another thing.

They know this.

Unless the appeal overturns the verdict (which I doubt) then it's business as usual.

Maybe you were talking about a revolution though?

We'd need guns for that.

We're not allowed guns since WWI.

Americans are allowed guns... for now.

I firmly believe we have an element of free speech in Europe because Americans have it. As soon as their guns are taken away the rest will follow. And that is bad news for the "free" world.

A government should fear its people and not the other way around.

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by sallypelt on 03.11.16 19:46

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage 6m6 minutes ago

After today's judgement I'm really beginning to question the independence of our judiciary




Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel 25m25 minutes ago

I usually try to contain my anger, but it's been very hard indeed today. I'm seething. Seething. Tories had better get a grip. #Article50

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Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by sallypelt on 03.11.16 21:08

Brexit: Ministers vow to fight Article 50 court ruling

government has said it will fight a High Court ruling that could frustrate its timetable for Brexit, claiming that voters want them to "get on with it".
Three judges ruled that Parliament, not the government alone, can trigger the formal process of leaving the EU.
Brexit Secretary David Davis said 17.4 million Leave voters had given the government "the biggest mandate in history" to leave the EU.
The Supreme Court is expected to hear the government's appeal next month.
In the landmark ruling, the High Court judges said the government could not trigger the Article 50 process of formally leaving the European Union alone - they must have the approval of Parliament.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37866411

We have become so tangled up in bureaucracy of the EU that it is strangling the life out of our way of life, and we just can't seem to get out of it. What the hell have we done?

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