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*** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by plebgate on Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:59 pm

An MP has just been tweeted in the Commons to say that one of her constituents has been told to Go Home.    Racism.

How very convenient it should happen just before this MP was called by the Speaker to ask a question.   She sat down before her question was asked!!!!!

Camerun will look into it.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Research_Reader on Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:44 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote: its 'single market' is inward-looking, it can't reach trade deals quickly because all 28 countries have to be consulted, and it imposes unfair tariffs on third world countries. 

This is a very important point. One could make the case that, in this regard the EU is acting in a manner akin to racist.

In a world of free-trade why should African business be unfairly locked-out of Europe? Surely the best way to promote racial equality and fairness in the world is to trade with nations like the countries of Africa and let them improve their own lives with dignity?

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by listener on Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:46 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@listener wrote:
Hello Mr. Bennett - thanks for your polite, well-reasoned response.

I believe that the very narrow win for the Brexit referendum was the cause of the equally narrow minds of racists and those who don't understand immigration.

I believe that the people of England have quite-wrongly blamed the EU for their woes. They should have been looking much closer to home.
I don't wish to start an argument, I hear your views about Westminster, but on the two points you've raised above:

1. I believe the vast majority of both English and Welsh people don't have a racist bone in their body, are basically welcoming and tolerant to all peoples and communities who want to 'fit in' and live harmoniously with us, and we fully appreciate that all countries need immigration. The issues we have are I think fourfold - A. the pace of immigration B. the quantity of immigration C. the pressures on e.g. housing, education, health etc. facilities and D. the problems one particular culture has brought in its wake

2. An exit poll showed that for Leave voters, the lack of democratically elected government of the EU was the main reason for voting 'Leave' for 49% of voters, with only 33% citing immigration first. For me and so many others, we don't think the EU (or immigrants) are to blame for all our ills. We voted why we did because A. the EU is fundamentally undemocratic B. its bureaucracy and ever-increasing regulation slows down business C. it is most certainly bent on increasing its powers (EU army, EU justice system etc.) D. it costs us, net, around £9 billion a year and E. its 'single market' is inward-looking, it can't reach trade deals quickly because all 28 countries have to be consulted, and it imposes unfair tariffs on third world countries. 

Whatever else may be laid at the door of the English, at least when your James VI became our King in 1603 and then again when our two nations united in 1707, we had the good sense not to interfere with the Scottish legal system.

I rather like your 'not proven' verdict, for example.

I feel sad sad when it gets to English and Scots people having a go at each other. We have done so very much successfully together for 400 years
I too, have no wish to start a keyboard argument, especially as my one-finger typing is so incredibly slow, but would just like to point to your final sentence and say that, for me, any future break-up of the UK is due to Scotland having a big problem with westminster, NOT an English/Scottish or Scottish/English race issue.
I would also mention that in Scotland it has been our 'south of the border' controlled media (once again) that played the immigration card, daily (and wrongly), to such an extent that it turned-off so many from voting 'out'. Had they not done so, the result of the referendum would not have been so slim (IMO). 'Out' would have been much stronger than 52%.
Did they shoot themselves in the foot?

But I also think that one of the main reasons the map I posted above showing every Scottish constituency voting 'IN' was due to many finding it completely impossible to side with boris, gove or duncan-smith! Again - media led propaganda?

Did the MMU mess-up?

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by pennylane on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:02 pm

@BlueBag wrote:
@plebgate wrote:We do not know who put those posters up and until we do why should we automatically think it was a Leaver - it could well be the dirty tricks brigade.   Is that a possibility?
Always.

It's an old trick.
Five news after showing the racist poster, then interviewed a couple of fishermen one said "I voted leave to teach them a lesson' the other said 'we don't want them here, can I say it again, we don't want them here!'   I wonder how many were interviewed to get to those two men? Then 5 News reported that racist crimes were drastically up! Any other time the police/government would insure such statistics were covered up.  It's abundantly clear what the agenda is here!

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Update

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:46 pm

I had more than 5 supporters contact me, thanks all. They have just been sent a link by the Petitions Committee and when all 5 have signed, my proposed petition will be urgently considered by the Petitions Committee.

MEANWHILE

A 'Brexiteer' has informed me that the Petitions Committee is considering another petition which basically asks the Prime Minister to confirm that there will be NO second referendum and NO going back, here is the link to that - it's not been approved yet

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/140246/sponsors/JzLgR1ZOxwq3Nmau0


P.S.  David Cameron did say in the Commons today very clearly that there would be no second referendum, no going back, and that the will of the British people must be carried out.

He also said that the Conservative leadership campaign would be speeded up so that it would be completed within 10 weeks, i.e. by 2nd September. That is also good news as the new man/woman needs to get a full team cracking on enacting BREXIT ASAP

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by aquila on Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:52 pm

@Research_Reader wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote: its 'single market' is inward-looking, it can't reach trade deals quickly because all 28 countries have to be consulted, and it imposes unfair tariffs on third world countries. 

This is a very important point. One could make the case that, in this regard the EU is acting in a manner akin to racist.

In a world of free-trade why should African business be unfairly locked-out of Europe? Surely the best way to promote racial equality and fairness in the world is to trade with nations like the countries of Africa and let them improve their own lives with dignity?
Isn't it much easier to send a shedload of taxpayers' money in some pseudo humanitarian gesture to poor old Africa and then let Sir Robert of Gobfordshire scream Feed the World?

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:58 pm

And let's remind ourselves about CAP (Common Agricultural Policy):



The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) is the agricultural policy of the European Union. It implements a system of agricultural subsidies and other programmes. It was introduced in 1962 and has undergone several changes since then to reduce the cost (from 71% of the EU budget in 1984 to 39% in 2013) and to also consider rural development in its aims.

has been repeatedly criticised for its cost (€57.8 billion in 2014)[1] and its environmental and humanitarian effects, including raising food prices and stalling development in poorer countries by preventing them from exporting food to the EU

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:04 pm

Just received from the Petition office:

Dear Anthony John Stuart Bennett,

Your petition is nearly ready to go.

[redacted by TB]  supported your petition – “PM to write now to the EU under Art. 50 Lisbon Treaty, to start withdrawal talks”.

5 people have supported your petition so far. We’re checking your petition to make sure it meets the petition standards. If it does, we’ll publish it. This usually takes a week or less.

Find out how we check petitions before we publish them:


https://petition.parliament.uk/help#standards

Thanks,
 

The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

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The BBC's take on Article 50:

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:32 pm

The BBC's take on Article 50:





The claim: The UK does not have to start the formal process of leaving the EU until a time of its choosing.

Reality Check verdict: There is no legal limit on how long the UK can wait before it invokes the article. The article states that the exit negotiations would take up to two years but can be extended if all the EU countries agree unanimously that they need more time.

In his first public statement since the referendum result, Chancellor George Osborne said "Only the UK can trigger Article 50. We should only do that when there is a clear view about what new arrangements we are seeking with our European neighbours."

However, European leaders have been quick to ask the UK to invoke it quickly. Martin Schultz, the president of the European Parliament, told German newspaper Bild am Sonntag: "We expect the British government to deliver now".

"The summit on Tuesday is the appropriate moment to do so."

But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal.

"It shouldn't take forever, that's right, but I would not fight for a short timeframe," she said.

So is there any obligation on the UK government to trigger it quickly?

Article 50 is an article of the Treaty of Lisbon which came into force on 1 December 2009. The Lisbon treaty amended the previous two big European treaties, the Treaty of Rome and the Maastricht Treaty.

It sets out, for the first time in the history of EU integration, the process by which member states could leave the EU.
The article states that the negotiations would take two years, but they can be extended if all the EU countries agree unanimously that they need more time.

The final exit deal has to be approved by the European Parliament and by the other EU leaders - excluding the UK - using a 'reinforced' qualified majority.

That means it has to be agreed by "at least 72% of the members of the Council representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States.

EU leaders have indicated that Article 50 will start a two-year negotiation period once the UK government informs the EU in writing or in person that it wishes to invoke it.

But there is no legal limit on how long the UK can wait before it invokes the article. There are some suggestions that regardless of how long the UK waits, the other 27 EU countries would start the exit deal talks between themselves sooner rather than later. They would then present the result of those negotiations to the UK once it invokes Article 50.

In January 2016 the director of Vote Leave, Dominic Cummings, told the Economist magazine the UK would not have to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty immediately after a leave vote and the final terms of Brexit could be put to voters in a second referendum. But the idea of a second referendum has been widely dismissed by politicians so far.

If Article 50 is invoked, the European Commission would recommend, and the Council (representing member states) adopt, a decision authorising the opening of negotiations. With such a complex and unprecedented matter at hand, both the EU and the UK government would nominate a negotiating team and its head. How big the UK and the EU teams would be and what roles there would be within the teams is all yet unknown.

Once the teams are in place, the negotiations would start. They are likely to be complex and could take a lot longer than two years, especially if the UK wanted to ensure that it retains a full access to the Single Market. However, if there is no unanimous agreement to extend the negotiations, the negotiations would stop and the UK would cease to be a member of the EU.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:16 pm

No negotiations with the UK, formally or informally, until Article 50 is invoked:

EU leaders reject informal talks with UK

The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel hosted talks with French President Francois Hollande and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Berlin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by MayMuse on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:05 am

@sallypelt wrote:No negotiations with the UK, formally or informally, until Article 50 is invoked:

EU leaders reject informal talks with UK

The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel hosted talks with French President Francois Hollande and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Berlin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211
Of course there isn't, still showing whose boss! 
Do I detect some bruised "egos".

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:58 am

PETITION ACCEPTED



Actually, it's not our petition here, but another one by one Thomas Renshaw that crept in just ahead of mine. Thank you to all those who supported my petition application.

It has an almost identical wording. i.e. for the government to trigger Article 50 NOW.

The Petitions Committee for obvious reasons does not allow near-identical petitions to run.

Theresa May said in her speech yesterday that there was no need to trigger Article 50 until 'the end of the year'. That is six months away, who knows what could happen in that time?

By the time I was made aware of the petition, at 11.35am, it had gained 473 signatures.  

At 11.39, it had 489 signatures.

At 11.42 it had 519 signatures.

At 11.58 it had 619 signatures.

I think a lot of people will sign it.

Thomas Renshaw's petition was accepted late yesterday and this is the link to sign it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618


 

Here are the details of Thomas Renshaw's petition:

To ask the Prime Minister to  Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.

The British people have spoken. We have voted to leave the EU. We want article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to be invoked immediately. We still have two years to discuss our exit from the EU, but we do not wish to delay it any further.

Thomas Renshaw
--------------------

This is the letter I got from the Petitions Committee this morning:

QUOTE 

Dear Anthony John Stuart Bennett,

We rejected the petition you created – “PM to write now to the EU under Art. 50 Lisbon Treaty, to start withdrawal talks”.

There’s already a petition about this issue. We cannot accept a new petition when we already have one about a very similar issue.

You are more likely to get action on this issue if you sign and share a single petition.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618

Click this link to see your rejected petition:
View your rejected petition


We only reject petitions that don’t meet the petition standards:
https://petition.parliament.uk/help#standards


If you want to try again, click here to start a petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check


Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament


-------------


ETA:    1,421 signatures by 1.54pm

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by roy rovers on Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:36 pm

Sorry Tony it's unlikely ever to be triggered. Given what we know now there will be a second referendum or a general election first and then its curtains for the little Englanders.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:57 pm

Looking good, these were the top three trending petitions on the PM's website a few minutes ago:


Make Eid a National Holiday  676 signatures in the last hour


EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum   619 signatures in the last hour


Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.    609 signatures in the last hour

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Claire25 on Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:22 pm

Well done and thank you Tony, I have signed.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Fallollop on Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:58 pm

What has this got to do with Madeleine McCann? You've done great work on her behalf, Tony. However, it is likely that at least 48% of the visitors to this site do not support your political view on this.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Claire25 on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:15 pm

Fallollop wrote:What has this got to do with Madeleine McCann? You've done great work on her behalf, Tony. However, it is likely that at least 48% of the visitors to this site do not support your political view on this.
Nobody is forcing anyone to sign, simply circulating the petition link! Petitions wouldn't be very successful if nobody was told about them.

It is nothing to do with MM, it naturally follows on from previous decision re the referendum in the Off Topic section.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by BlueBag on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:19 pm

Fallollop wrote:What has this got to do with Madeleine McCann? You've done great work on her behalf, Tony. However, it is likely that at least 48% of the visitors to this site do not support your political view on this.
the poll suggests otherwise

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:52 pm

Fallollop wrote:What has this got to do with Madeleine McCann? You've done great work on her behalf, Tony. However, it is likely that at least 48% of the visitors to this site do not support your political view on this.
Thank you for your very kind comment, I do what I can to get to the truth about Madeleine.

The forum-owner has always - over the past six-and-a-half years that the forum has been going - allowed and encouraged other sections of the forum for information and debate.

Since we have just had the highest number ever in this country come out and vote on a very divisive issue (33.5 million), it's hardly surprising that quite a few members here have been keen to discuss the E.U. Referendum.

You are more than welcome to post your own views on the topic so long as they comply with forum rules e.g. keep it polite and don't abuse anyone. else.      

I have a slight quibble with your 48% figure though. Several post-Brexit polls have shown that more people regret voting 'Remain' than regret voting 'Leave'. The figure who disagree with my views may therefore be a tad lower than your 48% figure

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:57 pm

The petition to invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty immediately is going great guns at the moment.

Here are the latest stats from the Prime Minister's website:

PETITIONS SIGNED IN THE LAST HOUR


Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately. 1,965 signatures in the last hour

Make Eid a National Holiday 609 signatures in the last hour

EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum  586 signatures in the last hour



Click here to sign the petition >>> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Richard IV on Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:45 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:The BBC's take on Article 50:





The claim: The UK does not have to start the formal process of leaving the EU until a time of its choosing.

Reality Check verdict: There is no legal limit on how long the UK can wait before it invokes the article. The article states that the exit negotiations would take up to two years but can be extended if all the EU countries agree unanimously that they need more time.

In his first public statement since the referendum result, Chancellor George Osborne said "Only the UK can trigger Article 50. We should only do that when there is a clear view about what new arrangements we are seeking with our European neighbours."

However, European leaders have been quick to ask the UK to invoke it quickly. Martin Schultz, the president of the European Parliament, told German newspaper Bild am Sonntag: "We expect the British government to deliver now".

"The summit on Tuesday is the appropriate moment to do so."

But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal.

"It shouldn't take forever, that's right, but I would not fight for a short timeframe," she said.

So is there any obligation on the UK government to trigger it quickly?

Article 50 is an article of the Treaty of Lisbon which came into force on 1 December 2009. The Lisbon treaty amended the previous two big European treaties, the Treaty of Rome and the Maastricht Treaty.

It sets out, for the first time in the history of EU integration, the process by which member states could leave the EU.
The article states that the negotiations would take two years, but they can be extended if all the EU countries agree unanimously that they need more time.

The final exit deal has to be approved by the European Parliament and by the other EU leaders - excluding the UK - using a 'reinforced' qualified majority.

That means it has to be agreed by "at least 72% of the members of the Council representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States.

EU leaders have indicated that Article 50 will start a two-year negotiation period once the UK government informs the EU in writing or in person that it wishes to invoke it.

But there is no legal limit on how long the UK can wait before it invokes the article. There are some suggestions that regardless of how long the UK waits, the other 27 EU countries would start the exit deal talks between themselves sooner rather than later. They would then present the result of those negotiations to the UK once it invokes Article 50.

In January 2016 the director of Vote Leave, Dominic Cummings, told the Economist magazine the UK would not have to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty immediately after a leave vote and the final terms of Brexit could be put to voters in a second referendum. But the idea of a second referendum has been widely dismissed by politicians so far.

If Article 50 is invoked, the European Commission would recommend, and the Council (representing member states) adopt, a decision authorising the opening of negotiations. With such a complex and unprecedented matter at hand, both the EU and the UK government would nominate a negotiating team and its head. How big the UK and the EU teams would be and what roles there would be within the teams is all yet unknown.

Once the teams are in place, the negotiations would start. They are likely to be complex and could take a lot longer than two years, especially if the UK wanted to ensure that it retains a full access to the Single Market. However, if there is no unanimous agreement to extend the negotiations, the negotiations would stop and the UK would cease to be a member of the EU.

The BBC makes me sick and George Osborne makes me sick.

We can all imagine just what `new arrangements` he has in mind - barely a spoonful more than Cameron came away with after his negotiations that he worked so hard at   no


These snidey little hooray henrys think they`re so clever.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sharonl on Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:46 pm

This petition seems to have gone viral. We should hit 10,000 within the next few minutes

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Nina on Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:51 pm

@sharonl wrote:This petition seems to have gone viral. We should hit 10,000 within the next few minutes
And rightly so.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sharonl on Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:03 pm

@Nina wrote:
@sharonl wrote:This petition seems to have gone viral. We should hit 10,000 within the next few minutes
And rightly so.



The petition has just hit 10,000 signatures.  The Government will now at least respond to the petition. 
At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament
At this rate, it should take about 10 days

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*** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Fallollop on Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:54 am

I appreciate and respect your position, Tony. You'll have probably guessed that I was a remainer. Perhaps one good thing to come from this is that the Portuguese authorities will be less inclined to do the bidding of their British counterparts.

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