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*** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

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*** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.06.16 14:57

A CMOMM member, distrustful of both European and British politicians, and recalling the experience of the Irish after their referendum vote against the Lisbon Treaty, has sent me a 'pm' suggesting that prressure should be put on the British government to begin the process of separation without delay.

This is the proposed form of words:

To ask the Prime Minister......"to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as practicable".

I need to have the e-mail addresses of FIVE supporters to get this launched.

I am on ajsbennett@btinternet.com

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Portia on 26.06.16 16:00

@Tony Bennett wrote:A CMOMM member, distrustful of both European and British politicians, and recalling the experience of the Irish after their referendum vote against the Lisbon Treaty, has sent me a 'pm' suggesting that prressure should be put on the British government to begin the process of separation without delay.

This is the proposed form of words:

To ask the Prime Minister......"to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as practicable".

I need to have the e-mail addresses of FIVE supporters to get this launched.

I am on ajsbennett@btinternet.com

Hello Mr Bennett,
Not necessary. The process starts next Tuesday when DC addresses the other leaders of the EU in Brussels. 
That is considered to be due notification as mentioned in art 50 Lisbon treaty

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.06.16 19:07

@Portia wrote:
Hello Mr Bennett,
Not necessary. The process starts next Tuesday when DC addresses the other leaders of the EU in Brussels. 
That is considered to be due notification as mentioned in art 50 Lisbon treaty
I do not think you are correct.

But I will be happy if either events or you can prove me wrong.

The following report from UK Column is interesting, though I think they are wrong and a bit paranoid about some things they say. The relevant bits are in red:

QUOTE

EU Referendum: The Psyop Continues

Following the result on Friday morning, and the UK Column's coverage of that result on the lunchtime news, we came under a certain amount of criticism. "I was happy about the result until I saw your programme and now I'm really down", was one comment, and "you're a bunch of fearmongers" another.

We are not "fearmongers". We can't live our lives in a dream, hoping that what we see around us is one thing, when in fact its another. We must be willing to face reality and act accordingly, without fear.

Friday's result has changed nothing, and it has changed everything. It offers us a chance to see the battlefield with clarity, but only if we choose to see it.

Here's the nothing: We are still in!

We have not left, we are not going to leave. Article 50 has not been invoked. Even if it is at some point in the future, what will the political environment be at the end of the Article 50 process, at best two years later? How many MPs will respect the vote of a non-binding referendum which took place at least two years previously?

And here's the everything: as we said several times on the news programme leading up to the referendum, the referendum has been used to change the political landscape completely. Cameron has resigned, Boris is a likely shoe-in, Corbyn is in crisis. Whatever emerges from this mess is not going to be pleasant: with Corbyn out of the way, the "left" is likely to be back on a war footing.

One thing is absolutely clear, though. Any notion of a divided Tory party is no more than a PR narrative, inflamed by the media. There is no real division there, and they will unite behind their new leader.

In the meantime, politicians and the media are stoking up as much anger and division as possible amongst the general population. The aim: to generate as much noise as possible while under the surface the policy agenda continues.

Remember: this referendum was never a simple "in/out" decision, because the "in" decision was based on Cameron's famous "renegotiation". Yet the terms of the renegotiation were not discussed during the course of the campaign, by either side, nor by any media outlet except the UK Column.

So let's end with a couple of questions as examples. Should Article 50 be invoked at some point after the new Prime Minister is selected, will negotiations on TTIP stop on that day? Will EU military integration stop on that day? If the answer to these questions is "no" as we believe it to be, or if government refuses to say either way, then everything we are experiencing is a lie, and the #EUReferendumPsyop continues.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 19:44

Guardian Comment On Boris Johnson’s Position After EU Referendum Vote Is Pretty Amazing
The post reads:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/guardian-comment-boris-johnson_uk_576faf9be4b0d2571149c8b9?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ttg%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D473493

Will the Gravy Train continue to trundle on, regardless of what the great unwashed voted for?

 “If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”     ― Mark Twain

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sharonl on 26.06.16 19:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:A CMOMM member, distrustful of both European and British politicians, and recalling the experience of the Irish after their referendum vote against the Lisbon Treaty, has sent me a 'pm' suggesting that prressure should be put on the British government to begin the process of separation without delay.

This is the proposed form of words:

To ask the Prime Minister......"to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as practicable".

I need to have the e-mail addresses of FIVE supporters to get this launched.

I am on ajsbennett@btinternet.com

Ok Tony - I am with you on this. thumbsup

But, when is "practicable"?  I would have said, "immediately" or at least "at the earliest opportunity"

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by aquila on 26.06.16 20:02

I'm afraid I can't support it because there is too much (predictable) domestic political turmoil at present.

I'm going to wait and let the political dust settle.

More haste less speed.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 20:10

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take

What are we to make of this?

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by aquila on 26.06.16 20:26

@sallypelt wrote:When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take

What are we to make of this?
Well exactly sallypelt, and however much we don't trust politicians we have to allow them in full view of the British public a little time to sort things out. Three months of Cameron remaining in situ is a fair amount of time don't you think?

Some will argue that Cameron has bailed out and pooped on his enemy. I don't believe that. I believe Cameron really had no choice but to resign for various reasons.

Three months (13 weeks) is a short amount of time to allow things to settle down a bit.

I can only hope within the next three months there is stability within the currently elected UK government to take a new leader and invoke Article 50 at that point. It's then and only then will we see the true nature of our government.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Verdi on 26.06.16 20:55

No can do - I think it's wrong! 

The world is in uproar as a result of this referendum, I doubt if even a fraction of voters realised the likely repercussions of opting out of the EU.  Leave it until such times as the media hype quietens and a more realistic perspective evolves.  Getting whipped into a frenzy doesn't help anything, the populace are in no position to dictate how this transition proceeds - it is but mass hysteria fueled by the ever ravenous media.

If the CMoMM member is so passionate about the subject for personal reasons, I'm surprised whoever didn't take the initiative to approach the PM without the need to use this forum as a medium.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by aquila on 26.06.16 20:57

@Verdi wrote:No can do - I think it's wrong! 

The world is in uproar as a result of this referendum, I doubt if even a fraction of voters realised the likely repercussions of opting out of the EU.  Leave it until such times as the media hype quietens and a more realistic perspective evolves.  Getting whipped into a frenzy doesn't help anything, the populace are in no position to dictate how this transition proceeds - it is but mass hysteria fueled by the ever ravenous media.

If the CMoMM member is so passionate about the subject for personal reasons, I'm surprised whoever didn't take the initiative to approach the PM without the need to use this forum as a medium.
I agree wholeheartedly Verdi.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 21:26

I am going to try and explain what the problem is with invoking Article 50. Let's start with the Scots. I know that tensions are running high in Scotland, because N Sturgeon is now calling for a SECOND referendum, because the situation has now changed, to what it was in 2014. Sturgeon, on behalf of the Scots, is arguing that because Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, the UK government has no case to refuse Scotland a new referendum. The UK is under no obligation to grand that second referendum, but many Scots have said, that they will turn the UK into another NI if they are refused another referendum.

The problem is, that Northern Ireland TOO, voted to remain, so NI can also call to break away from the UK so they too, can remain in the EU. However, if, and until Article 50 is invoked, the situation hasn't changed in regards to Scotland and their demand for another referendum, so the British government can refuse to grant one, because Sturgeon doesn't have a case. NI is in a similar position.

So, the UK government has a HUGE problem on its hand. As soon as it invokes Article 50, Scotland and NI will probably demand to go independent, so they can remain in the EU. If that happens, there will only be England and Wales  left in the Union. This is why some commentators are saying that Article 50 will NEVER be invoked, because no British government is going to allow the splintering of the UK.

So, there is the problem.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Claire25 on 26.06.16 21:38

Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 21:39

@Claire25 wrote:Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading

Nicola Sturgeon is determined to get independence, and then to give it away to the EU. The British government is between a rock and a hard place. They are quite within the law to refuse, but tensions are running high in Scotland.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by BlueBag on 26.06.16 21:42

@Claire25 wrote:Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading
Let them join the EU.

I'm sure France and Germany will love to financially support them.

Because they'll take more out than they put in.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Verdi on 26.06.16 21:47

@sallypelt wrote:
@Claire25 wrote:Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading

Nicola Sturgeon is determined to get independence, and then to give it away to the EU. The British government is between a rock and a hard place. They are quite within the law to refuse, but tensions are running high in Scotland.
Isn't that a trifle contradictory?  It's a bit like someone claiming to be a libertarian but at the same time believing the UK should remain in the EU.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 21:48

@BlueBag wrote:
@Claire25 wrote:Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading
Let them join the EU.

I'm sure France and Germany will love to financially support them.

Because they'll take more out than they put in.
Scotland cannot join the EU while they are still part of the UK.  That is why the are calling for a second referendum, so they can break away, become independent, and remain in the EU. However, Scotland has been told, even if they become independent, they will still have to reapply to join.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 21:49

@Verdi wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:
@Claire25 wrote:Are Scotland and NI even sustainable without the rest of the UK to go into the EU alone?
Will the EU accept them on special terms now or will they have to go it alone first?
Will the Scottish and NI people feel any differently about remaining in the EU a)without the rest of the UK when given all the facts and figures once discussions with Brussels explains b)if the Frexit/Swexit talks go further / now there are rumblings that Junker should go.. the ripples are spreading

Nicola Sturgeon is determined to get independence, and then to give it away to the EU. The British government is between a rock and a hard place. They are quite within the law to refuse, but tensions are running high in Scotland.
Isn't that a trifle contradictory?  It's a bit like someone claiming to be a libertarian but at the same time believing the UK should remain in the EU.

Verdi, it's not a case of them being contradictory. The situation is problematic. Extremely problematic.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.06.16 21:49

@sallypelt wrote:Guardian Comment On Boris Johnson’s Position After EU Referendum Vote Is Pretty Amazing
The post reads:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/guardian-comment-boris-johnson_uk_576faf9be4b0d2571149c8b9?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ttg%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D473493
Left-wing, internationalist spin from the Guardian and the HuffPost.

Both Cameron and Corbyn have said that "The will of the people must be given effect".

I am confident that whatever team Boris Johnson and Michael Gove (assuming they will be in charge) put together can sort out all those problems listed in the Guardian comment piece above.

I think however that the piece above proves 'Portia' wrong in saying that Article 50 will be automatically triggered when Cameron goes to Brussels, so for now I think I shall pursue this proposed petition, but maybe change the wording so that it reads>>>

"trigger Article 50 without further delay". 

The EU want things to be sorted out sooner rather than later. So let's put our Article 50 application to leave now - surely the main elements of settlement can be reached within 2 years?


P.S. I have four e-mail addresses so far, just need one more

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Claire25 on 26.06.16 21:51

Surely if Article 50 is invoked and they are allowed an independence referendum, that during their campaign period and by the time their votes come around, the uncertainty in the EU will be so great that they won't want go through with independence anyway.  Particularly if other countries start considering referendums.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 22:44




A 'Dash to seal Brexit deal' is the subject of the Daily Express' splash with the warning the EU exit deal for the UK could be scuppered if there is too much delay

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by sallypelt on 26.06.16 22:51

Boris Johnson says UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with EU following referendum result


Johnson vows EU cooperation after vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by MayMuse on 27.06.16 1:39

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:Guardian Comment On Boris Johnson’s Position After EU Referendum Vote Is Pretty Amazing
The post reads:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/guardian-comment-boris-johnson_uk_576faf9be4b0d2571149c8b9?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ttg%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D473493
Left-wing, internationalist spin from the Guardian and the HuffPost.

Both Cameron and Corbyn have said that "The will of the people must be given effect".

I am confident that whatever team Boris Johnson and Michael Gove (assuming they will be in charge) put together can sort out all those problems listed in the Guardian comment piece above.

I think however that the piece above proves 'Portia' wrong in saying that Article 50 will be automatically triggered when Cameron goes to Brussels, so for now I think I shall pursue this proposed petition, but maybe change the wording so that it reads>>>

"trigger Article 50 without further delay". 

The EU want things to be sorted out sooner rather than later. So let's put our Article 50 application to leave now - surely the main elements of settlement can be reached within 2 years?


P.S. I have four e-mail addresses so far, just need one more
Happy to support Tony, so count me in  nod

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by plebgate on 27.06.16 1:53

I heard/read yesterday that Spain has already said they woud veto any Scottish attempt to rejoin the EU.

With five other countries already demanding referendums does Sturgeon really think the people of Europe are in the mood to start supporting yet another country?

The people of Scotland need to think long and hard imo before signing up to any of this as one reporter has already asked where they would get the massive "joining" fee?

She is making it sound easy but it will be fraught with difficulties and the Scottish people need to remember that once they are out of UK there will be no going back.

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Re: *** NEW - Article 50 Petition ACCEPTED - Open for signatures *** (was: CMOMM member proposes urgent post-BREXIT petition to the Prime Minister)

Post by Claire25 on 27.06.16 7:46

I think the thing is, Scotland in the whole voted for the UK to remain in the EU, not Scotland.  They should get their referendum again when the time is right with new and up to date information to reconsider their position. I don't personally see how that time is now though, let the dust settle first and see what deal the UK goes away with.

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