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Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Cherry on 15.08.10 19:21

Hi kololi, I would say yes the majority of parents are loving and caring to their children, we are talking about a minority of parents who harm their children. However I have to say that the lengths that some who do abuse their children will go to would for many be unbelievable but sadly it is a reality, just as some parents sadly have children for the sole purpose of being able to abuse those children (and worse).

It is one we will have to certainly disagree on kololi and yes I do hope very much that I am wrong.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Cherry on 15.08.10 19:32

Rainbow perhaps if any parents did do anything to their child being on holiday would be the perfect cover, with your friends around you, people who you can rely on to coverup for you, perhaps lie for you, - if they were all involved in the same kind of activity they would go along with them, also the number of people who came riding to their rescue from the goverment and various agencies, I would say they were sent to control any problems which may arise, we are told that some of the British officials who went out originally and who did suspect them were replaced by people who would tow the party line, any dissenters were given the chop so to speak, they were surrounded by people all singing from the same hymn sheet. Look how quickly DP stepped in when the social worker attempted to speak to Kate. Again just theorising here, not saying this did happen, just saying it could have happened. I dont know any more than anyone else, can only judge on what I have seen and heard and when do we ever get unprecedented coverups, think of Operation Ore, Jersey, North Wales Care Homes, Kendal House etc., a few examples of when the Press is suppressed, when people searching to expose the truth are hounded, harrassed, all kinds of accusations thrown at them etc., it is all imo an all too familiar story.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 15.08.10 21:57

@ufercoffy wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:I am thinking :
If they planned to kill her why go on holiday in group to do?
How did they expect to get away with it?
How did they know their friends were going to cooperate?
If its about sedation, wouldnt it be easier to plan that at home......

I prefer to think its accidental as premeditation involving bringing friends along is mad brazennes, and fearless of the law beyond belief.

They have got away with it and their friends did cooperate and they are all fearless of the law.

Yes,to all the above in sentence, how does that prove premed....?

So...why can't it have been planned?

Maybe sedation at home wouldn't have resulted in a Fund (which was set up remarkably quickly, along with people giving up their jobs).

Ha...of course silly, I hadnt taken in the Windfall 'fund'!
But, hey there are some fools, some vulnerables, and some good hearted who are ever ready to part with their money they thought for good cause especially when a young child is involved.
Even if this took place in Chez mccanns, if they coluld sell the abudction theory, people would still donate.
Only difference is they wont be able to get away from the crime.....because their abduction story is so full of holes .....
Maybe Madeleine had been abused at home and was starting to talk about it.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 15.08.10 22:03

@Judge Mental wrote:Permission is granted to all those who would wish to agree with Kolioli, so long as there is not too much of it

We're all standing to attention, Monsieur one-click away!

LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT!

@ aiyoyo

Like you, one thought the use of the word murder was quite stark or startling

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 15.08.10 22:18

@Cherry wrote:kololi unfortunately the sad fact is that some parents ARE that coldblooded, some parents DO plan the murder of their children, just as some parents abuse their children, some parents let their friends and family members abuse their children, some parents take money to let strangers abuse their children, that is sadly the world that we live in. That is not to say that has happened in this case (we don't know as yet) but it is not so unbelievable, when children go missing it more often than not involves one or other or both of the parents (that does not mean every case), the most disgusting and heinous crimes are commited against children by their own parents so it is not so unbelievable imo to dismiss out of hand. You may feel this has not happened in this case, that is your opinion, just as many others may feel this has not happened (equally some will feel this HAS happened in this case), but Police officers who work in child protection, people who work with victims of abuse,survivors of childhood abuse - will tell you it is not in any way unusual for parents to be perpetrators in crimes against children. Many of these crimes are preplanned.


Ah,......nodoubt about it..perpetrator of child neglect, abuse, trafficking, or other criminal act against child is usually carried out by parent, family member, or someone known to the child.

But in the discussion of this case, some people and I are saying we dont particularly believe she was brought abroad especially with group friends for the express purpose of vapourishing her to another planet. If they went only as family and no other friends......maybe still possible ? But with friends? I doubt the premed...?

Maybe the abuse borders on a level of violent fit of anger, and temporary insanity hatred, against a recalcitrant child hence a subliminal wish to get rid of her but that is still not equal to cold blooded intent. Former = manslaughter, and later = deliberate homicide (best avoid the stark word)

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Judge Mental on 15.08.10 22:19


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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 15.08.10 22:24

@Rainbow wrote:Why would they have wanted to get rid of her though?

aiya....the answer is so facile!

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Cherry on 15.08.10 22:32

The abuse could have been a violent fit of anger, it could have been an accident where madeleine woke and went to look for her parents and got out the appartment and fell down the steps, remember there was an early report that she died of a broken neck! That was whoosed away never to be heard of again!
It could have been she was being abused and during the course of that had her neck broken. One of the reasons why I think premed could be a possibility is the suppression of the press, the threats and harrassment against those trying to get to the truth, even trying to shut down forums asking pertinent and relevant questions, all this kind of behaviour is common by the media, by the government when they are trying to cover up for example elite paedophile rings. There are a lot of possibilities and differing views around, lets just hope one day we all find out the truth.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 16.08.10 8:22

I still think death is accidental be it self caused or caused by third party.

And cover up is all about self perservation because quite a few professionals work and live are at stake. The need to hide her instead of reporting the accident could only mean evidence sur son cadavre will incriminating them.

They were incredibly lucky so far..........

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 16.08.10 8:59

If Maddie's death had been accidental, or if she had been abducted by a paedophile, then I don't understand how her parents could look like this:






I don't buy abduction or accidental death.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by littlepixie on 16.08.10 10:42

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1313921_jailed_for_life_mum_who_murdered_her_threeyearold_daughter_with_a_cuddly_toy

This woman who murdered her daughter has got life and will serve 8 years.

The comments below from her friends show how people will defend a child murderer. I am sure if the McCanns had held their hands up in the beginning there would have been many who would have sympathized with them if one of them had been suffering from mental illness and momentarily "lost it".

If they did freeze their little girls body and move her weeks after death and denied her a proper burial then there is no sympathy.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Mariita on 17.04.12 1:00

I don´t think that Christian Lüdke is wrong. Something that struck me when I began reading about this case was that IF it had been an accident,- they would never have looked so relaxed (almost happy) in so many pictures. Because an accident is an accident, - which means no planning -and therefore a TRAGEDY. The cover up had to be constructed and carried out(hiding the body) in a relative short timesequence. This is maybe not impossible, but how likely when one takes everything else in consideration? Lüdke mentions the McCanns behaviour after the discovery that Madeleine was missing. Plus the statistics in "abduction" cases...not in the McCanns favor. The more I watch the body language, listen to strange answers (or avoiding answering at all) in interviews,the more convinced I get about their part in this! So....
Abduction? NO WAY!
Accident? Maybe, but far to many signs that indicate the worse scenario (going on with regular activities in a relaxed manner, smiling on photos etc etc) Every other strange things, like unwilling to answer questions, refusing to use lie detectors, discredit the dogs, goes along with death by accident and a followed cover up. Both are lies. And to make big money out of those lies...well the English language is not my natural every-day language,- if it was I would probably have written the ugliest word there is - to describe what I feel about it

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by tigger on 17.04.12 8:50

Exactly Mariita, I'm with Dr. Ludke every step of the way. He said early on that this had to be planned and they must have spoken about it with each other.

Whichever scenario you try out, abduction, accident, murder - there was no grief. Not even time to grieve and this normal human reaction cannot be denied. You have no choice in the matter - grief cannot be postponed or covered with a smile. It is immediate and overpowering.



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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by PeterMac on 17.04.12 10:07

@tigger wrote:
Whichever scenario you try out, abduction, accident, murder - there was no grief. Not even time to grieve and this normal human reaction cannot be denied. You have no choice in the matter - grief cannot be postponed or covered with a smile. It is immediate and overpowering.
Quite.
But with one caveat.
With a certainty of death, whether by natural causes, by accident or by design, there is a point at which the world starts to come together again, even though in a different form from before. This is why elaborate funerals, remembrance services, visiting graves, visiting the site of the accident, visiting battle grounds, throwing wreaths into the sea, leaving flowers, garrotting teddy bears with piano wire on lampposts, and all the other things people do are so important.
These actions allow what people call 'closure'.

With an abduction by a predatory Pae***** there could never be that point.

Not even if she were returned alive, since she would / will be psychologically and physically damaged beyond recognition and probably beyond recovery.
Death is the only outcome which permits people eventually to relax into a form of normality.
And an extension of that is that they must know (know) that she is dead.


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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 17.04.12 12:30

@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Whichever scenario you try out, abduction, accident, murder - there was no grief. Not even time to grieve and this normal human reaction cannot be denied. You have no choice in the matter - grief cannot be postponed or covered with a smile. It is immediate and overpowering.
Quite.
But with one caveat.
With a certainty of death, whether by natural causes, by accident or by design, there is a point at which the world starts to come together again, even though in a different form from before. This is why elaborate funerals, remembrance services, visiting graves, visiting the site of the accident, visiting battle grounds, throwing wreaths into the sea, leaving flowers, garrotting teddy bears with piano wire on lampposts, and all the other things people do are so important.
These actions allow what people call 'closure'.

With an abduction by a predatory Pae***** there could never be that point.

Not even if she were returned alive, since she would / will be psychologically and physically damaged beyond recognition and probably beyond recovery.
Death is the only outcome which permits people eventually to relax into a form of normality.
And an extension of that is that they must know (know) that she is dead.


Precisely!
Death is the only outcome that explains why they didn't bother to join the search party, and their relaxing into normality at break neck speed that chills the blood.

Usually a period of time is needed for people to come to terms with a death no matter the cause of the death because after all it is a tragic lost of a precious life. In a sense, Dr Ludke probably hit the nail on the head when he said Madeleine's death was planned, and the mccanns had discussed it beforehand. Otherwise how to explain their blood chilling behavior of coming to term with it so quickly, literally the moment they disposed of her, so to speak. The cold-blooded behavior is akin to stranger murder without emotional attachment to the victim.

The reason they feel a compulsive need to come onto National TV to lie and to pretend they were looking for their lost child is a mental sickness. It's their underlying problem all the while and this root cause is the very reason why Maddie met her fate under their hands.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by PeterMac on 17.04.12 13:38

@aiyoyo wrote:Dr Ludke probably hit the nail on the head when he said Madeleine's death was planned, and the mccanns had discussed it beforehand. Otherwise how to explain their blood chilling behavior of coming to term with it so quickly, literally the moment they disposed of her, so to speak. The cold-blooded behavior is akin to stranger murder without emotional attachment to the victim.
That I doubt, frankly.
For me what we saw, and are seeing is
"Thank God they still haven't discovered.... thank God they are looking in completely the wrong direction... thank God everyone has agreed to remain silent..."
Hence the full faced grin involved the cheek muscles and the eyes, rather than a forced 'mouth only' smile.
It is a relaxation and a release from tension.
Again, for me, this is what I think we are seeing in those interviews.
They start with the C-R approved sad face, and must be fearing a difficult question, or the revelation of some knowledge which they thought they alone possessed,
and when the interview becomes anodyne, or the interviewer starts asking about "Sightings' or other things which they know (know), are nonsense, that elation at having got past that particular hurdle forces them into Gerry's grinning and Kate's gurning as she fights to stop herself smiling or laughing.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by aiyoyo on 17.04.12 15:04

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Dr Ludke probably hit the nail on the head when he said Madeleine's death was planned, and the mccanns had discussed it beforehand. Otherwise how to explain their blood chilling behavior of coming to term with it so quickly, literally the moment they disposed of her, so to speak. The cold-blooded behavior is akin to stranger murder without emotional attachment to the victim.
That I doubt, frankly.
For me what we saw, and are seeing is
"Thank God they still haven't discovered.... thank God they are looking in completely the wrong direction... thank God everyone has agreed to remain silent..."
Hence the full faced grin involved the cheek muscles and the eyes, rather than a forced 'mouth only' smile.
It is a relaxation and a release from tension.
Again, for me, this is what I think we are seeing in those interviews.
They start with the C-R approved sad face, and must be fearing a difficult question, or the revelation of some knowledge which they thought they alone possessed,
and when the interview becomes anodyne, or the interviewer starts asking about "Sightings' or other things which they know (know), are nonsense, that elation at having got past that particular hurdle forces them into Gerry's grinning and Kate's gurning as she fights to stop herself smiling or laughing.

I dont get it. Do you mean to say it was accidental death (not planned as Dr Ludke seems to purport) but the mccanns believe they got away with it (so far) and they are dead chuffed with themselves which causes the sudden adrenalin rush giving them a high, hence relief, and therefore the full relaxing grin from jawline to eyes?


So, IYO, do you think that each time they were asked about the "sightings" they were relieved because they truly believed "Thank God they still haven't discovered....Thank God they are looking at the wrong direction", or is their grin just self satisfaction that they got through this round of interview until the next. Or do they truly believe the Police are looking at the wrong direction? They cant be that naive!

Also, on Dr Ludke's point that Maddie's death may have been planned, do you think that is a possibility?
Personally I thought if it was premeditated they have made a complete mess of it, and if not for the media circus they created to shield them, their game would have been over right back in PdL.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Cristobell on 17.04.12 16:06

The availability of the old photo of Maddie in the red dress would lend weight to the premeditated theory, and it would be interesting to see if Dr. Ludka has changed or added to his original opinion.

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Mariita on 18.04.12 0:25

@Cristobell wrote:The availability of the old photo of Maddie in the red dress would lend weight to the premeditated theory, and it would be interesting to see if Dr. Ludka has changed or added to his original opinion.

In what way does the photo lend weight to the premediated theory? ( I don´t think I´ve seen it yet). About Dr. Lüdke´s opinion today, well my guess is that he might be even more certain of his statements nowadays. The charade has been going on since then. In the interview he described the McCanns behaviour with the same words he probably would use when describing psychopathic or narcissistic behaviour. And this explains of course why they seem so cold in many situations. It´s because they are cold. How else could you go through this circus? Just listen how they talk about Madeleine, it´s as if talking about a thing - an object.....not a human being...a child..their DAUGHTER. How can anyone not see the smirk, the evil grin of Gerry when he is asked about his feeling every time there is a sighting of a girl that could be their daughter??

All this is so very sad, at the same time I feel sooooo angry because it´s an example of how deep-down-rotten some in this world are. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by tigger on 18.04.12 6:29

Mariita, Christobel is talking about the famous poster photo.
Which was ready within hours of her disappearance.
Which is Maddie (aged about 2.5 yrs. old) at Christmas 2005.
Which had the coloboma added to her eye.

Why would you have such a photo - with a non existent feature - ready and with you on that same night?

There were about 30 to 40 copies of that photograph on high quality paper - which was not available in PdL.

Therefore the conclusion is that this photo was prepared, printed and ready well before 3/5/07. Therefore there was planning.


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Re: Dr Christian Ludke interview revisited - November 2007

Post by Mariita on 18.04.12 9:00

Tigger, I just read your reply and immediately an icecold shiver ran down my spine Shocked

That is something I missed...now I don´t get it at all...such a REMARKABLE fact and the police/authorities choose to close their eyes?!? What is it about this couple that they can get away with so much...? Right, manipulative behaviour is also on the psychopath´s checklist - but somehow I get the feeling there is much more going on in this case that is still hidden. Poor poor Madeleine. I want every new day to be the day when justice finally reaches her!

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