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Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 15.05.16 22:56

@whodunit wrote:@Verdi--"All for one and one for all - if the McCanns go down the mind boggles as to who they take with them.  Can anyone see the likes of Gerry McCann being meekly dumped in the meat wagon en-route for the slaughter house?  Nah - no chance."

I'm just saying--the cemeteries of the world are full of people who were determined not to go down alone.

If they know what's good for them, meek is a good stance to take. [I wouldn't bet on it though, which is why there is trouble ahead for TM]
I've no idea about cemeteries of the world being full of people determine not to go down alone.

Trouble ahead for TM (presuming TM is team McCann)?  Do you have inside information?

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 15.05.16 23:23

@whodunit wrote:@Verdi---"
Ah - but it's too late for denial.  It's all there black and white in the PJ files, early press reports, the words of Clarence Mitchell and of course the McCanns themselves."

they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist.
You're ducking and diving here I think.

You said earlier this evening..

"According to the Met, the media, and most of the public the establishment do not exist in this case, now or ever. They will be ghosts, 'spooks' wafting around in the background, whose presence is felt but never confirmed."

On reflexion,  I don't recall ever seeing anything that can even vaguely verify your first sentence - not even sure what you're suggesting.  There can be no denying that the establishment has been deeply involved with this case, information in the public domain confirms that very fact.  The second sentence I will leave to ghost busters, where it belongs.

Within minutes you then say..

"they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist."

Your applied logic has shifted dramatically from the establishment being in denial to the McCanns and Operation Grange being in denial.

I am totally aware of the fact that the McCanns and Operation Grange have purposely ignored the most important evidence and/or intelligence harvested during the official PJ investigation, indeed I've repeatedly said such.  The establishment however is another issue altogether - the power behind the McCanns defence, always was and always will be.  This is not a figment of the imagination, it's documentation indelibly recorded for eternity - they can't deny it nor erase it.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 15.05.16 23:44

@April28th wrote:
@whodunit wrote:@Verdi---"
Ah - but it's too late for denial.  It's all there black and white in the PJ files, early press reports, the words of Clarence Mitchell and of course the McCanns themselves."

they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist.

Precisely why I made the nonspecific FOI I did...

'The inspector at the Dog Training Establishment has said he has no examples of where a VRD hindered an investigation.'
The Portuguese police did and still do hold primacy in this case.  The specialist dogs Eddie and Keela were deployed to assist with the investigation, the action was not an Operation Grange initiative.

I don't recall the PJ nor the Metropolitan Police nor Operation Grange per se, ever stating that the deployment of Eddie and Keela 'hindered' the investigation.  The McCanns themselves had a good old grumble about their track record for obvious reasons I think but their word accounts for nothing.  I therefore really can't understand what you hoped to achieve by this random FOI, nor can I see how it fits in with Operation Grange's refusal to acknowledge the dogs alerts - unless I've missed something.

If one cares to question why, between Portugal and the UK's prestigious Forensic Science Service that was, the alerts made by Eddie and Keela amounted to zero, despite their reputation, that is something to really get the teeth into.  Having said that, the ex-FSS was part of the British establishment so we're back to square one!!!

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by April28th on 16.05.16 0:07

Yes, in a court cadaverine means zero in Portugal. That doesn't = irrelevant though, so now it's my turn not to follow you completely. 

If you'll note the wording of my question, I asked if an alert ever hindered (an investigation). One would think that such a high profile case would be a great example of hindrance if it were so.

The inference is obvious, lo siento

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 16.05.16 0:52

@April28th wrote:Yes, in a court cadaverine means zero in Portugal. That doesn't = irrelevant though, so now it's my turn not to follow you completely. 

If you'll note the wording of my question, I asked if an alert ever hindered (an investigation). One would think that such a high profile case would be a great example of hindrance if it were so.

The inference is obvious, lo siento
I make no reference to cadavarine in a a Portuguese court - how did you come to that conclusion?

I note the wording of your question - "I asked if an alert ever hindered (an investigation)"  but I'm none the wiser.  What connection is there between a high profile case and a great example of a hindrance in the context of your FOI?  I don't even understand what you're getting at.

The inference (?) might be obvious to you but it's not obvious to me - I don't even know what the inference is.  In the interest of clarity, care to explain?

ETA:  Just realised I previously referred to the dog alerts between Portugal and the FSS.  I meant en-route between Portugal and the FSS, in short how the dog alerts, although taken seriously by the PJ, lost all significance once they arrived in the UK.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by whodunit on 16.05.16 0:58

@Verdi wrote:
@whodunit wrote:@Verdi---"
Ah - but it's too late for denial.  It's all there black and white in the PJ files, early press reports, the words of Clarence Mitchell and of course the McCanns themselves."

they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist.
You're ducking and diving here I think.

You said earlier this evening..

"According to the Met, the media, and most of the public the establishment do not exist in this case, now or ever. They will be ghosts, 'spooks' wafting around in the background, whose presence is felt but never confirmed."

On reflexion,  I don't recall ever seeing anything that can even vaguely verify your first sentence - not even sure what you're suggesting.  There can be no denying that the establishment has been deeply involved with this case, information in the public domain confirms that very fact.  The second sentence I will leave to ghost busters, where it belongs.

Within minutes you then say..

"they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist."

Your applied logic has shifted dramatically from the establishment being in denial to the McCanns and Operation Grange being in denial.


I am totally aware of the fact that the McCanns and Operation Grange have purposely ignored the most important evidence and/or intelligence harvested during the official PJ investigation, indeed I've repeatedly said such.  The establishment however is another issue altogether - the power behind the McCanns defence, always was and always will be.  This is not a figment of the imagination, it's documentation indelibly recorded for eternity - they can't deny it nor erase it.

I've not contradicted myself in the least. I SAID the Met would front any limited hangout and go on pretending, as they always have done, that members of the establishment do not exist in this case. [as suspects] The ESTABLISHMENT, per se, do not have to do anything, least of all be 'in denial' of something they've not been officially accused of.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by whodunit on 16.05.16 1:01

@Verdi wrote:
@whodunit wrote:@Verdi--"All for one and one for all - if the McCanns go down the mind boggles as to who they take with them.  Can anyone see the likes of Gerry McCann being meekly dumped in the meat wagon en-route for the slaughter house?  Nah - no chance."

I'm just saying--the cemeteries of the world are full of people who were determined not to go down alone.

If they know what's good for them, meek is a good stance to take.

I've no idea about cemeteries of the world being full of people determine not to go down alone.

Trouble ahead for TM (presuming TM is team McCann)?  Do you have inside information?


I have the same information as everybody else:  the media narrative on this case has taken a subtle yet distinctive shift since Dr. Amaral's recent court victory. In my opinion, this signals trouble ahead for TM. What form that trouble takes is anybody's guess.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 16.05.16 1:02

@whodunit wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@whodunit wrote:@Verdi---"
Ah - but it's too late for denial.  It's all there black and white in the PJ files, early press reports, the words of Clarence Mitchell and of course the McCanns themselves."

they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist.
You're ducking and diving here I think.

You said earlier this evening..

"According to the Met, the media, and most of the public the establishment do not exist in this case, now or ever. They will be ghosts, 'spooks' wafting around in the background, whose presence is felt but never confirmed."

On reflexion,  I don't recall ever seeing anything that can even vaguely verify your first sentence - not even sure what you're suggesting.  There can be no denying that the establishment has been deeply involved with this case, information in the public domain confirms that very fact.  The second sentence I will leave to ghost busters, where it belongs.

Within minutes you then say..

"they've denied the existence of everything else in the files that hasn't suited them up to now. Has OG ever mentioned the EVRD dogs findings? Their very remit pretends it doesn't exist."

Your applied logic has shifted dramatically from the establishment being in denial to the McCanns and Operation Grange being in denial.


I am totally aware of the fact that the McCanns and Operation Grange have purposely ignored the most important evidence and/or intelligence harvested during the official PJ investigation, indeed I've repeatedly said such.  The establishment however is another issue altogether - the power behind the McCanns defence, always was and always will be.  This is not a figment of the imagination, it's documentation indelibly recorded for eternity - they can't deny it nor erase it.

I've not contradicted myself in the least. I SAID the Met would front any limited hangout and go on pretending, as they always have done, that the establishment do not exist in this case. [as suspects] The ESTABLISMENT, per se, do not have to do anything, least of all be 'in denial' of something they've not been officially accused of.
OK, now you've totally lost me - I haven't a clue what you're talking about.  Tomorrow is another day!

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by April28th on 16.05.16 10:11

@Verdi The point is, people are worried OG will not look at anything other than abduction, and that the dog evidence will be completely ignored (and let's be clear, enough people have reminded them of that evidence that ignorance is impossible). I just got verification that the MET has no examples of where a dog hindered an investigation with bad alerts. Ergo, the alerts made in Praia Da Luz haven't gone into an 'unreliable' pile.

Which means one of three things, either that;

 - The top handler/detective in the country isn't aware of the alerts in the MBM case and the point is moot
 - Dog evidence is completely ruled out because it doesn't fit abduction hypothesis
 - Dog alerts will have to be taken into account when OG comes to a close

Given the third possibility means making a death/abduction by burglars last 2-3 hours, it is not going to stand up, especially if the 3rd timeline is the only thing being observed.

So if we get told it was likely 3 burglars, then as I said to 'Realist' a couple weeks ago on here, they're either saying their theory is right and the dogs were wrong, or they're saying the dogs were right but overlooking them to reach a desired conclusion.

The official position on dogs' accuracy, and failure to mention 5A as an example of inaccuracy (or Haut de la Garenne interestingly), means whatever conclusion is reached must address this (unless you're saying they only take notice of their own dogs' findings).

Not sure if we had crossed wires there or I just didn't explain it well, hope this clarified my logic some.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 16.05.16 12:26

This point is overlooked time and time again.  The UK police have no authority to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the case is outside their parameters - it's a case for the Portuguese not the UK.  The archival process in Portugal makes no difference, they still retain primacy.

That aside, disregarding your FOI application if I may, the dog alerts were/are important intelligence - not evidence.  Without positive forensic evidence to back-up the dog alerts,  although still of importance to the investigation, they have no value in terms of conclusive evidence - hence my previous comment about the samples harvested by the PJ somehow losing their value between Portugal and the UK.

This simple technicality puts Operation Grange in the insidious position of being able to ignore the dog alerts - now and in the future.   It's not a matter of the dogs being considered unreliable as you suggest, the fact remains there is no forensic evidence to support the alerts, your three points therefore hold no water.  In essence, Operation Grange could come up with some wacky but quasi plausible theory about long since dead bungling burglars that accidently killed a child and carted the body off in a swag bag (the missing sports bag?), dragging poor old innocent Eddie and Keela into the foray - but now I'm being totally ridiculous.

Your third point is an interesting observation..

"Dog alerts will have to be taken into account when OG comes to a close"

Why so and by whom?

In short, there is no requirement for Operation Grange, or anyone else for that matter, to justify their stance as regards the dog alerts.  That important intelligence was nicely wrapped up in John Lowe's forensic reports and since the FSS is no more, fat chance of a second opinion - so to speak.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 16.05.16 12:47

@ whodunnit wrote:  I've not contradicted myself in the least. I SAID the Met would front any limited hangout and go on pretending, as they always have done, that the establishment do not exist in this case. [as suspects] The ESTABLISMENT, per se, do not have to do anything, least of all be 'in denial' of something they've not been officially accused of.

The establishment according to my interpretation, is the entire matrix of officialdom.  For that reason alone, you cannot suspect or accuse that officialdom of anything - surely that would equate to accusing oneself?

Evidence of the establishment is stamped all over this case, right from the very beginning - or some might say even before 3rd May 2007.  All this information has been documented by a seemingly endless list e.g.  the McCanns, Clarence Mitchell, the media, the CEOP, the government, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the police, the law - in fact largely officialdom itself - they've all played a part.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by HelenMeg on 16.05.16 15:04

@Verdi wrote:
@April28th wrote:Yes, in a court cadaverine means zero in Portugal. That doesn't = irrelevant though, so now it's my turn not to follow you completely. 

If you'll note the wording of my question, I asked if an alert ever hindered (an investigation). One would think that such a high profile case would be a great example of hindrance if it were so.

The inference is obvious, lo siento
I make no reference to cadavarine in a a Portuguese court - how did you come to that conclusion?

I note the wording of your question - "I asked if an alert ever hindered (an investigation)"  but I'm none the wiser.  What connection is there between a high profile case and a great example of a hindrance in the context of your FOI?  I don't even understand what you're getting at.

The inference (?) might be obvious to you but it's not obvious to me - I don't even know what the inference is.  In the interest of clarity, care to explain?

ETA:  Just realised I previously referred to the dog alerts between Portugal and the FSS.  I meant en-route between Portugal and the FSS, in short how the dog alerts, although taken seriously by the PJ, lost all significance once they arrived in the UK.
I remember when DCI Redwood suddenly came to a conclusion that the investigation thought that Madeleine may have been dead when she left the apartment. I think (but not certain) it was around the time of the 'Crimewatch 2013 October' . I remember many of us were elated as it looked as though Op Grange was steering things towards 'death' at last...   I thought at last they were taking notice of the dogs' findings.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Verdi on 16.05.16 20:50

I think the tell-tale sign HelenMeg, is that Madeleine has not been seen or heard of since the holiday in PdL.  It's difficult, even for Operation Grange, to maintain the illusion that she is still alive and findable.  Irrespective of any change in her appearance over the years, unless she was concealed from public view for a year or so following her disappearance, surely someone somewhere in the world would have seen her?

I think ex-DCI Redwood was hedging his bets at the time - it never led to anywhere did it?  An off the cuff remark akin to saying something to the effect of..

'well, of one thing we can be sure - she is either dead or she is alive'

duh

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by MaryB on 16.05.16 21:09

I can't think of any cases of when children have disappeared for years the police have taken the stand that they will turn up alive and well.  Usually when a small child is missing even for 24 hours they are talking of the worse possible news. But here we are nine years on and they're still talking as if they are expecting Madeleine McCann to walk back into her bedroom and open her nine years worth of presents.  It's mad.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by pennylane on 16.05.16 21:28

Everything Op Grange has said and done has been farcical. Happy retirement Andy!

A for public consumption, simulated investigation that dare not glimpse sideways at the McCanns, for once scrutinised their bizarre story and implausible timelines collapses immediately, and gives further credence to the blood and cadaver dog alerts.  The HO tunnel visioned remit is steeped in corruption (imo).

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Columbo on 17.05.16 2:20

@whodunit wrote:
I've said it before: A limited hangout* seems to be in the works. Establishment may have done a cost/benefit analysis and come to the conclusion that the benefits of throwing TM under the bus outweigh the cost of allowing them to continue milking this story for cash.

*Adopting Amaral's theory presented in TTotL, though it may not reflect his current thinking, would constitute a limited hangout: Parents and parents alone are responsible for an 'accident' occurring on May 3 but may have received help from some of the Tapas to hide her corpse.
Surely the problem with this - and also a problem for OG - is the fund. The moment you say that GM and KM knew that Maddie was dead (or even just "not findable") then their actions become demonstrably fraudulent. And if senior investigators knew the same and yet continued to allow the fund to operate and claim public donations, this poses serious questions too. And tricky issues about the fund can't be pushed onto "sardine munchers".

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by aiyoyo on 17.05.16 3:11

Exactly.
And there is indication they knew knew she was dead
(1) when Kate said the Portuguese didn't want a murder on their hands.  
(2) when she told PJ (during Gerry absence) of her dream
(3) wish she could push a button and they would all be together
(4) when they sent for the South Africa with the special corpse detection device to come and comb the beach
(5) when Gerry said "find and body and prove we did it"
etc

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by whodunit on 17.05.16 3:44

@Columbo wrote:
@whodunit wrote:
I've said it before: A limited hangout* seems to be in the works. Establishment may have done a cost/benefit analysis and come to the conclusion that the benefits of throwing TM under the bus outweigh the cost of allowing them to continue milking this story for cash.

*Adopting Amaral's theory presented in TTotL, though it may not reflect his current thinking, would constitute a limited hangout: Parents and parents alone are responsible for an 'accident' occurring on May 3 but may have received help from some of the Tapas to hide her corpse.
Surely the problem with this - and also a problem for OG - is the fund. The moment you say that GM and KM knew that Maddie was dead (or even just "not findable") then their actions become demonstrably fraudulent. And if senior investigators knew the same and yet continued to allow the fund to operate and claim public donations, this poses serious questions too. And tricky issues about the fund can't be pushed onto "sardine munchers".

I didn't say it wouldn't be problematic but after all, when it's all said and done, the fund and what the McCanns knew when they set it up, how they spent it, and who they sued with it is ultimately their problem. Not OG's problem and not the donors' problem. Basically everyone involved with the fund EXCEPT the Mcs have a semblance of plausible deniability and believe me they will clutch onto it and hang on for dear life.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 17.05.16 7:22

Police do not take dogs to a scabby bit off scrubland and start searching it for a "live, findable" child seven or eight years on,

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Doug D on 18.05.16 18:40

Update slipped through for the headlines yesterday but no apology to GA.
 
The link to the page still says ‘wrote book claiming McCanns killed daughter Madeleine’ though!
 
Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns covered up Madeleine's death - and even British police donated
 
    Judges ordered Goncalo Amaral to pay McCanns £395,000 damages 
    Group of Britons gave cash to a web fund to help retired officer, 57
    £1,000 claimed to be from a ‘very large’ group of Met police officers
    Last month Portuguese judges decided to overturn the payout order 
     
By TOM KELLY and INDERDEEP BAINS FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 22:01, 13 May 2016 | UPDATED: 16:58, 17 May 2016
 
More than £50,000 was raised by Britons – including an apparent group of police – in support of a Portuguese detective who claimed Madeleine McCann's parents covered up her death.   
The group, some of whom admit they are internet ‘trolls’, gave cash to a web fund for Goncalo Amaral, 57.
Judges had ordered Amaral to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £395,000 in libel damages after he wrote a book claiming that Madeleine died in an accident and the parents covered it up.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3589566/Web-trolls-raise-50-000-Portuguese-policeman-wrote-book-claiming-McCanns-killed-daughter-Madeleine.html
 
……………………………………………………
 
When the ‘doorstepping’ allegations first started, I e-mailed the following to Tom Kelly at the Daily Mail on 28th April @ 06.04pm:
 
I understand you have today been contacting people who donated to the Goncalo Amaral legal defence fund, started by Leanne Baulch last year on a ‘Go Fund Me’ site.
 
Following the tragic demise of Brenda Leyland in 2014, and the regular abuse received on-line by many 'normal' people who have followed the McCann case and are simply not prepared to accept the discrepancies and inconsistencies in stories from both family and friends, there is quite naturally some concern as to where you are going with this story and whether it will lead to even more abuse and repercussions from the McCann support team.
 
As it would appear likely that any article is to be based around Amaral and his book, followed by the court cases and then the subsequent appeal, (the fund to which we contributed), before you go to print, I hope that you will have read the transcript of the one hour TV special, broadcast in Portugal last Saturday, in which he clarified a number of the claims made and expressed his concerns as to where the case is now going, as well as asking further questions of the investigating teams.
 
A full English transcript of this broadcast can be found at:
 
http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/cm-special-maddie-mystery.html?m=1
 
Additionally, I trust you are very familiar with the archived PJ investigation files released back in 2008 and subsequent statements and reportings.
 
In the last week we have also had conflicting reports from both DCS Mick Duthie and Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, as to the future direction of Operation Grange, culminating in todays ludicrous article in the Daily Star by Jerry Lawton where he reverts back to suggesting the blame lies with the three burglars who came to prominence in the press at least eighteen months ago.
 
As a member of the CMOMM forum, (http://jillhavern.forumotion.net ) I do not claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann that week in 2007, other than a belief that the suggested 'abduction' was a virtual impossibility, of which no evidence can be found and that the 'evidence' of the blood and cadaver dogs clearly leads down a different path. The vast number of inconsistencies in the statements etc speak for themselves.
 
There have been, of course, many theories and often completely fanciful ideas suggested, both on our forum and other forum and facebook sites.
 
What I am clear on however, is that there are serious shortcomings in the ‘official’ line given and based on the archived and subsequently released PJ files, the regular briefings, leaks and spin from Operation Grange under DCI Redwood were clearly little more than window dressing to feed the MSM’s insatiable appetite for Maddie stories.
 
Quite how OG has been allowed to continue for so long at such a cost is frankly nonsensical, but it has always been felt that it could not conclude until after the Amaral case was resolved, to try and avoid a potentially even more damaging ‘egg on face’ resolution for the Met.
 
It would make a welcome change to see some honest and ‘un-spun’ investigative reporting on this case and in the wake of the Hillsborough revelations of police lies and cover-ups, honesty and decency may yet come to the fore and we may see a more honest and open investigation, culminating in some believable ‘truths’ being revealed,
but unfortunately I won’t hold my breath.
 
 


I received no response or acknowledgment to this and following publication of the article last Friday, I sent a follow up yesterday (17th) at 11.49am:
 
I refer to my (unacknowledged) e-mail to you dated 28th April (6.04pm) brought about by allegations of ‘doorstepping’ by members of the Daily Mail staff in respect of donations to the Goncalo Amaral fund, with some pointers for background information for any article regarding the fund, the court cases and the investigation in general.
 
Your article duly appeared in the paper on 13th May and whilst if you care to read the numerous comments, many of these points have been covered, I feel it worthwhile to follow up my earlier e-mail, highlighting inaccuracies in the article just from the bare headlines.
 
No doubt the DM employ ‘headline writers’ and you will distance your article from these actual 'dramatic headlines', but you must surely have some responsibility for anything written under your name, especially when potentially libelous.
 
a/. ‘Web trolls’ – What precisely is a ‘web troll’? I would suggest an appropriate definition is someone who is purely out to disrupt, spread mis-information and cause problems on social media, which is certainly not the case in respect of this fund. The reason people accepted the ‘troll’ description was that the whole of the MSM labeled all of us that donated as trolls and as it is a pointless fight it, it was easier to just accept it as some sort of ‘badge of honour’ in this respect.
 
b/. ‘wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine’
 
If you care to read Amaral’s book, which can be found on-line at:
 
http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk
 
you will see that this was not his claim (although you do manage to get the claim correct in the body of your article)
 
‘The conclusion my team and I have arrived at are the following:
 
1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;
 
2. There was simulation of abduction.
 
3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter’s body.
 
4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident.
 
5. The evidence proves the parents’ negligence concerning the care and safety of the children.’
 
I would suggest this headline is in fact libelous and certainly worthy of a written correction and an apology.
 
If you do not have time to read the full book, an abbreviated summary can be found at:
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
 
c/. In the initial on-line publication at 22.01, Madeleine was mis-spelt although this was promptly pointed out and corrected. How on earth can this even happen? Doesn't anybody check anything any more?
 
d/. ‘Judges ordered Goncalo Amaral to pay McCanns £395,000 damages’
 
I think you will find that this was a judge, not judges.
 
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v01.htm
 
e/. ‘GA 57’
 
Goncalo Amaral was born on October 2, 1959 and is therefore 56, not 57.
 
f/. ‘Last month Portuguese judges decided to overturn the payout order’
 
Again, if you read the relevant parts of the judgment in full, a translation of which can be found at:
 
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/translation-of-conclusions-of-appellate.html?m=1
 
this is very much an understatement (although not incorrect as such) and the judges went a lot further than just ‘overturn(ing) the payout order.’
 
Whilst the overall ‘feel’ of the article is far less ‘pro-McCann’ than we have become accustomed to from the MSM in general over the last few years, I am at a bit of a loss as to quite why this story has been recycled now, when the fund was started in April 2015 and closed on 28th October 2015 as it was considered that enough had been raised to fund the appeal. Numerous articles reported on the ‘troll’ fund at that time, so why try and recreate an old story again now?
 
If you care to investigate the case thoroughly, going back to May 2007, right up to the present, including the seemingly shambolic and nonsensically expensive Met’s ‘Operation Grange’, I am certain that you will find many, potentially award winning, stories to be had, capable of putting your name out there with the likes of Woodward and Bernstein as an investigative journalist, but with the editorial constraints that the MSM seem to be under for some unknown reason, no doubt this is just wishful thinking.
 
 
Surprise, surprise, I have received no response or acknowledgment to this either, but I suppose at least the Mail have realized that the original headline, which can be found for posterity on page 1 of this thread, is libelous, hence the change.
 
WHERE IS THE APOLOGY THOUGH???????

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by aiyoyo on 18.05.16 19:46

Well done Doug D.

They won't apologise because the request to retract has to come from Dr Amaral himself,
If Dr Amaral had written to them they would be obliged to remove the libelous bit.

They write headlines to capture attention, aware that -

a/ Dr Amaral likely never will read the foreign (English) new publications .
b/ the headline is a projection of the press opinion of the Mcs.
knowing that Kate and Gerry won't react to it, as they can't do anything about it.
Kate & Gerry can hardly come out to protest saying headline is wrong - that they didn't kill her or that Dr Amaral never said that, else that would be inviting unwanted attention onto them selves.

Headlines are meant to sensationalize and to attract attention.



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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by dottyaussie on 18.05.16 19:49

thumbsup Well done Doug. Here's hoping you do get a reply.

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Re: Daily Mail - article MUST READ: Web trolls raise £50,000 for the Portuguese detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine - and even British police donated

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 18.05.16 20:00

@aiyoyo wrote:Well done Doug D.

They won't apologise because the request to retract has to come from Dr Amaral himself,
If Dr Amaral had written to them they would be obliged to remove the libelous bit.



Tony managed to get a retraction for Dr Amaral - he is also aware of the headlines http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t12218-goncalo-amaral-did-not-lie-about-madeleine-today-7-dec-2015-daily-express-publishes-on-page-21-an-offical-correction-to-its-29-apr-2015-headline

Yes, very well done Doug roses

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