The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Page 5 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by April28th on 08.05.16 17:12

@Realist wrote:4. Whatever happened to her happened after the McCanns returned with Madeleine to their apartment after 6pm that evening


That is also my opinion.

7. 'Smithman' was a genuine sighting but she can't be sure if it was Gerry McCann or perhaps someone else carrying Madeleine, and

Whether the Smiths did, or did not see a person carrying a child at around the 10 pm. mark, in my humble opinion is entirely irrelevant, because I am of the firm belief that the McCanns had disposed of their daughter's body prior to leaving for the Tapas bar.

Cadaverine takes 2 hours to start developing. Dogs are trained to pick up scent 3 hours old. It takes 2 minutes of exposure to an area to transmit cadaverine.

The body would've been moved at least 3 times in the apartment (including outside the window) before leaving it, and spent at least 2 minutes in each location (in studies they got this right 94% of the time when looking at a carpet square exposed for 2 minutes - rising to 98% for 10 minute exposure). The parents went to dinner at 2030.

That's 90 minutes. In your scenario cadaverine wasn't even beginning to develop at that point, nevermind moving around the apartment.

At the earliest, the alarm was raised around 2120 (according to the Millenium worker who went over around the same time), and at the latest 2200. It's hard enough to make cadaverine fit with these timelines, nevermind your 90 minute one.


So, am I right in assuming you don't believe in the dogs alerting?

April28th

Posts : 292
Reputation : 201
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 08.05.16 17:35

@April28th wrote:


So, am I right in assuming you don't believe in the dogs alerting?
I'll answer this question with a couple of my own, April. The first being, do you believe that the McCanns  confided with the Warner camp staff that something fatal had occurred with their daughter and they required their assistance to create the allusion that she had been alive on the days preceding the 3rd. inst. May 2007?

The second being, do you believe that Gerry McCann would have taken the chance of openly carrying his dead daughter around the streets of Praia da Luz at around 10 pm for the world and his wife to witness amidst the confusion of his wife proclaiming to her acquaintances, 'They've taken her.'? If this indeed is what occurred, according to the Smiths, the man they saw was heading for the beach, which would presumably have been where he intended to dispose of the body. In which case, why wasn't it discovered by the Portuguese police, whom I understand conducted extensive searches of the immediate surrounding area.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by April28th on 08.05.16 17:41

Your questions are extraneous, as I haven't put forward what I think, or made an argument, I just gave you the data. The two questions you asked don't address what I asked you. Your username being 'Realist' I assume you're also an empiricist. Given what is scientifically known about cadaverine, your theory rules out the dogs. Or if the dogs are right, your theory needs to be adjusted. No two ways about it. Which is it?

April28th

Posts : 292
Reputation : 201
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 08.05.16 18:02

My questions are not extraneous, April, they are in fact relevant to what you are intimating, which is(please correct me if I am wrong) that the dog's indications are at best sacrosanct and at worst not to be discounted.

I thank you for the highly pertinent information regarding the time a body requires to reside in an area for the dogs to detect the scent of cadaverine, I was going to enquire on this matter. In vein of the times you have presented, if one is to rely on their findings, then Madeleine would have to have been dead some considerable time prior to 6 pm, or not removed until after the McCanns left for the Tapas bar which is precisely why I asked you whether you are of the belief that the McCanns entered into a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice with members of the Warner camp staff, or that Gerry was openly carrying around his dead daughter's body sometime after 10 pm.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by April28th on 08.05.16 18:37

I wasn't intimating anything, just wondering whether you believe the dogs or not, because as demonstrated their evidence doesn't work with what you said about it being before 2030.

Glad the information has been of use - and happy that see you are open to new information.

Technically speaking I don't believe either of the things you mentioned, but I don't want to divert the thread too much with what I think.

April28th

Posts : 292
Reputation : 201
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.05.16 20:33

@Realist wrote:3. Madeleine was at a high tea between 4.45pm and 6.00pm on 3 May as per the evidence of the McCanns and Catriona Baker

I would have to agree on this point for the same reason as given in no. 1..

4. Whatever happened to her happened after the McCanns returned with Madeleine to their apartment after 6pm that evening


That is also my opinion.

5. They all panicked and dreamt up the abduction hoax that evening

I agree with this, with the proviso that by all, she means the McCanns.  Unless whatever happened to their daughter was premeditated, any plan would, by default, had to have been concocted after her demise, on the evening of the 3rd inst. May 2007.

6. They got rid of the body that evening

It doesn't take the brains of David Lloyd George, or for that matter the mathematical genius of Albert Einstein to configure this out.
Let's just see how many problems there are with your hypothesis.

Your hypothesis is based on a full acceptance that the accounts of the ‘high tea’ on Thursday 3 May 2007 (despite the many contradictions) given by the McCanns and Catriona Baker are truthful. It follows from that, that Madeline was at the high tea from 4.45pm to 6.00pm, and that a few minutes after that, Madeleine was back in the McCanns’ apartment. According to the ‘official’ account of this in Kate McCann’s ‘madeleine’, Madeleine was ‘tired, worn out and pale’ and Kate had to carry her back to the apartment. Gerry McCann, we are told, went to the front door, letting Kate and Madeleine in by the patio door.

For your hypothesis to work, and you concede that they were all at the dinner table at about 8.30pm, all the following must have happened:

1. Madeleine died and suffered a fatal accident

2. It must be presumed that the twins were also in the apartment when this sad event took place

3. The McCanns decided to hide Madeleine’s body

4. They managed to think up a place to hide it

5. One of them hid it in a place that has yet to be discovered – and then returned to the apartment in time to dress for dinner

6. One of the following two things must have happened regarding the Tapas 7:

EITHER (A) The McCanns contacted each one of them before 8.30pm and said something like: “Look, Madeleine’s dead. The circumstances are such that we can’t risk an autopsy. So will you help us pretend she was abducted? You will? – great!”

OR (B) The Tapas 7 had no idea whatsoever that Madeleine was dead or missing until about 10.00pm when Kate McCann raised the alarm – but that since then they have meekly gone along with the official story.

We know that Eddie was impatient at the odour of human cadaverine in the McCanns’ apartment before he even entered it. He then alerted strongly to cadaver scent in the living room, in the wardrobe in the master bedroom, on the veranda, and less strongly in the garden. Therefore, as per your hypothesis, all of the scent of cadaver arose between 6pm and whatever time you say the body was removed from the apartment.

(it seems that you have gone with (B))

During all this time, as Madeleine lay dead in the apartment, and her body was then removed, the twins were easily dealt with and calmly put to sleep so that they could all enjoy food and wine at the Tapas restaurant at 8.30pm.

-------------------

You have come on this forum with the username 'Realist', though I think you have been here under different names a time or two before. 

I really think the username 'Fantasist' would be much more appropriate  

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13971
Reputation : 2146
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.05.16 22:12

@Joss wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:I am not really familiar with PB's theory on what she thinks happened to MBM?...Btw, do you know where the theory of PB's about that could be found, if you could post a link please, would be interested to read it. TIA.
This is actually quite an important question, since this thread is actually discussing Pat Brown's theory.

I think I can summarise it from what excerpts I've seen from her book, and from other places where she has written about her theory.

These are the key elements: [SNIPPED]
Thankyou very much Tony for posting up all that information, much appreciated.
Further to the above, Pat Brown has sent me this e-mail this evening:

++++++++++++++++++

FROM PAT BROWN

Hi Tony,

Just for the sake of accuracy since some on your board are claiming I believe Maddie is in England due to a post I made concerning the concept of following all possible leads until they are found to have validity or not, please share a link to this post:

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/03/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-find.html

My top theory ever since my trip to Portugal as to where Maddie's body may be is Monte do Jose Mestre, a large desolate area just to the west of Praia da Luz where Gerry's phone pinged. I also believe that Gerry is most likely to have moved and buried Maddie's body on his own. 

Due to the fact I have discussed this case dozens and dozens of times over the years, anyone can read my posts for free and get a pretty good idea of my analysis of the case without buying my book.


Thanks, Tony!

Pat

Pat Brown
Investigative Criminal Profiler
www.patbrownprofiling.com
profilerpatbrown@gmail.com
301-633-1151

The Murder of Cleopatra
How to Save Your Daughter's Life
Only the Truth
Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The Profiler: My Life Hunting Serial Killers and Psychopaths
Killing for Sport: Inside the Lives of Serial Killers

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13971
Reputation : 2146
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 08.05.16 22:18

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Realist wrote:3. Madeleine was at a high tea between 4.45pm and 6.00pm on 3 May as per the evidence of the McCanns and Catriona Baker

I would have to agree on this point for the same reason as given in no. 1..

4. Whatever happened to her happened after the McCanns returned with Madeleine to their apartment after 6pm that evening


That is also my opinion.

5. They all panicked and dreamt up the abduction hoax that evening

I agree with this, with the proviso that by all, she means the McCanns.  Unless whatever happened to their daughter was premeditated, any plan would, by default, had to have been concocted after her demise, on the evening of the 3rd inst. May 2007.

6. They got rid of the body that evening

It doesn't take the brains of David Lloyd George, or for that matter the mathematical genius of Albert Einstein to configure this out.
Let's just see how many problems there are with your hypothesis.

Your hypothesis is based on a full acceptance that the accounts of the ‘high tea’ on Thursday 3 May 2007 (despite the many contradictions) given by the McCanns and Catriona Baker are truthful. It follows from that, that Madeline was at the high tea from 4.45pm to 6.00pm, and that a few minutes after that, Madeleine was back in the McCanns’ apartment. According to the ‘official’ account of this in Kate McCann’s ‘madeleine’, Madeleine was ‘tired, worn out and pale’ and Kate had to carry her back to the apartment. Gerry McCann, we are told, went to the front door, letting Kate and Madeleine in by the patio door.

For your hypothesis to work, and you concede that they were all at the dinner table at about 8.30pm, all the following must have happened:

1. Madeleine died and suffered a fatal accident

2. It must be presumed that the twins were also in the apartment when this sad event took place

3. The McCanns decided to hide Madeleine’s body

4. They managed to think up a place to hide it

5. One of them hid it in a place that has yet to be discovered – and then returned to the apartment in time to dress for dinner

6. One of the following two things must have happened regarding the Tapas 7:

EITHER (A) The McCanns contacted each one of them before 8.30pm and said something like: “Look, Madeleine’s dead. The circumstances are such that we can’t risk an autopsy. So will you help us pretend she was abducted? You will? – great!”

OR (B) The Tapas 7 had no idea whatsoever that Madeleine was dead or missing until about 10.00pm when Kate McCann raised the alarm – but that since then they have meekly gone along with the official story.

We know that Eddie was impatient at the odour of human cadaverine in the McCanns’ apartment before he even entered it. He then alerted strongly to cadaver scent in the living room, in the wardrobe in the master bedroom, on the veranda, and less strongly in the garden. Therefore, as per your hypothesis, all of the scent of cadaver arose between 6pm and whatever time you say the body was removed from the apartment.

(it seems that you have gone with (B))

During all this time, as Madeleine lay dead in the apartment, and her body was then removed, the twins were easily dealt with and calmly put to sleep so that they could all enjoy food and wine at the Tapas restaurant at 8.30pm.

-------------------

You have come on this forum with the username 'Realist', though I think you have been here under different names a time or two before. 

I really think the username 'Fantasist' would be much more appropriate  
I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight, even granting half an hour discrepancy either end is a matter that has always bothered me. The problem being, that to think otherwise would be to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt that there was some form of kidnapping which transpired between 9 pm and 10 pm.

For the purpose of this posting, I'm going to focus on your alternative theory. To do so, I am going to have to read between the lines, because for obvious legal reasons, you are not going to divulge your true sentiments on this forum. What I am going to write in no way is intended to detract from your being a nuisance value to the McCanns.

Firstly, I'll deal with the Smith's sighting with which you don't appear to hold much faith . I'm sure you'll correct me if I am wrong. You also quite rightly, patently dismiss the Tanner sighting. From this I deduct that you don't believe that Gerry McCann was swanning around Praia da Luz at around 10 pm openly carrying the dead body of his daughter en route to inter her on the beach. If I'm wrong in this deduction, please feel at liberty to correct me.

In the vein that you have deemed it appropriate to designate me as a 'fantasist,' you clearly don't believe that whatever befell Madeleine occurred between 6 pm and 8 30 pm. So, by the process of elimination, you must believe that the aforementioned occurred earlier, probably much earlier. This of course would not only allow more time for planning and preparation, it would fit in with the dog's indications, maybe even accommodate the McCann's acquaintances in a grandiose scale conspiracy. Something perhaps upon the lines of an Ealing comedy production a la 'Carry on doctors.' But there's a problem and its a whopper, because to buy into this theory, one would have to believe that the McCanns confided in at least three Warner Camp employees that Madeleine was dead, but not only was she dead, they would be required to create the allusion that she was still alive up until 6,pm on Thurs. 3rd. inst. May 2007. There may well be a school of thought which would subscribe to this being classified as conspiracy to pervert the course of justice at best and conspiracy to commit murder at worst.

Now, we're not referring here to hardened criminals who grew up together on the mean streets of South London, or that matter, particularly intelligent people, what we have here are menial workers with no criminal experience whatsoever being expected to withstand police pressure in a high profile kidnapping case with absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.. Perhaps they didn't relate to them they were going to dispose of the body and concoct a kidnapping fable and that's what persuaded them to come along for the ride, a sort of Boy's Own adventure, eh! Or maybe it was those high ranking spooks sent over by Bell Pottinger who persuaded them.

I asked you on another thread if you would put your trust in such people in a serious criminal venture, as yet, I haven't received a reply.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.05.16 22:51

@Realist wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Realist wrote:3. Madeleine was at a high tea between 4.45pm and 6.00pm on 3 May as per the evidence of the McCanns and Catriona Baker

I would have to agree on this point for the same reason as given in no. 1..

4. Whatever happened to her happened after the McCanns returned with Madeleine to their apartment after 6pm that evening


That is also my opinion.

5. They all panicked and dreamt up the abduction hoax that evening

I agree with this, with the proviso that by all, she means the McCanns.  Unless whatever happened to their daughter was premeditated, any plan would, by default, had to have been concocted after her demise, on the evening of the 3rd inst. May 2007.

6. They got rid of the body that evening

It doesn't take the brains of David Lloyd George, or for that matter the mathematical genius of Albert Einstein to configure this out.
Let's just see how many problems there are with your hypothesis.

Your hypothesis is based on  [SNIPPED] -------------------

You have come on this forum with the username 'Realist', though I think you have been here under different names a time or two before. 

I really think the username 'Fantasist' would be much more appropriate  
I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight, even granting half an hour discrepancy either end is a matter that has always bothered me. The problem being, that to think otherwise would be to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt that there was some form of kidnapping which transpired between 9 pm and 10 pm.

For the purpose of this posting, I'm going to focus on your alternative theory. To do so, I am going to have to read between the lines, because for obvious legal reasons, you are not going to divulge your true sentiments on this forum. What I am going to write in no way is intended to detract from your being a nuisance value to the McCanns.

Firstly, I'll deal with the Smith's sighting with which you don't appear to hold much faith . I'm sure you'll correct me if I am wrong. You also quite rightly, patently dismiss the Tanner sighting. From this I deduct that you don't believe that Gerry McCann was swanning around Praia da Luz at around 10 pm openly carrying the dead body of his daughter en route to inter her on the beach. If I'm wrong in this deduction, please feel at liberty to correct me.

In the vein that you have deemed it appropriate to designate me as a 'fantasist,' you clearly don't believe that whatever befell Madeleine occurred between 6 pm and 8 30 pm. So, by the process of elimination, you must believe that the aforementioned occurred earlier, probably much earlier. This of course would not only allow more time for planning and preparation, it would fit in with the dog's indications, maybe even accommodate the McCann's acquaintances in a grandiose scale conspiracy. Something perhaps upon the lines of an Ealing comedy production a la 'Carry on doctors.' But there's a problem and its a whopper, because to buy into this theory, one would have to believe that the McCanns confided in at least three Warner Camp employees that Madeleine was dead, but not only was she dead, they would be required to create the allusion that she was still alive up until 6,pm on Thurs. 3rd. inst. May 2007. There may well be a school of thought which would subscribe to this being classified as conspiracy to pervert the course of justice at best and conspiracy to commit murder at worst.

Now, we're not referring here to hardened criminals who grew up together on the mean streets of South London, or that matter, particularly intelligent people, what we have here are menial workers with no criminal experience whatsoever being expected to withstand police pressure in a high profile kidnapping case with absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.. Perhaps they didn't relate to them they were going to dispose of the body and concoct a kidnapping fable and that's what persuaded them to come along for the ride, a sort of Boy's Own adventure, eh! Or maybe it was those high ranking spooks sent over by Bell Pottinger who persuaded them.

I asked you on another thread if you would put your trust in such people in a serious criminal venture, as yet, I haven't received a reply.
You make some points which require an answer.

However, I am not going to respond because of this point you made which is I'm afraid quite correct:

"For the purpose of this posting, I'm going to focus on your alternative theory. To do so, I am going to have to read between the lines, because for obvious legal reasons, you are not going to divulge your true sentiments on this forum".

I am however grateful for your clear admission, namely:

"I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight".

The only remaining point I will make is to suggest to you, with all due respect etc., that to fit in Madeleine's sudden demise, deciding to hide the body, finding a place to hide the body, returning to the apartment having hidden the body, settling the twins, planning the abduction hoax, getting dressed for dinner etc., all within a framework of two hours, is not merely 'tight' but utterly impossible. And that's without even thinking about the implications of the cadaver dog evidence.

I will upset some people by saying this, but I think it's a point to which Goncalo Amaral should have given a lot more thought before he wrote his book. 

His hypothesis, as he states unequivocally in his book, is that the McCanns and Catriona Baker were all telling God's own truth about that 'high tea' on 3 May 2007.        

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13971
Reputation : 2146
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 08.05.16 23:36

Tony Benett wrote:

His hypothesis, as he states unequivocally in his book, is that the McCanns and Catriona Baker were all telling God's own truth about that 'high tea' on 3 May 2007.        
But it isn't only Cat Baker who would need to be recruited, Tony, you yourself have stated that it would have taken two or three others. I would opine this would be a conservative estimate.

Yes, of course an earlier absence would make for far more practical possibilities and if you can persuade me that the McCanns were prepared to take the risk of confiding in even one of the Warner staff, I might be tempted to accept your line of thought. Another pitfall of this theory is that not only would these people have been subjected to severe police pressure, there was always the temptation of mega media money from selling their stories to resist.

T'would appear that both our hypothesis' are fraught with difficulties. Let's be careful not to eradicate all the possibilities, because that may lead to thinking the unthinkable.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Verdi on 08.05.16 23:57

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@Verdi wrote: It's all very well to bang on about the McCanns behaviour, apparent guilt but without evidence to lead to a prosecution any official investigation is stymied.  Public opinion has no bearing on the law - unfortunately!
Too much water under the bridge for my liking - I hope I'm wrong.

I suspect you are not wrong.  The only silver lining is that provided the SC agree with the Appeal Court, Amaral is then free to publish his book, appear on TV, make documentaries, write new books.  

OG will then have been a waste of time, and the last words will continue to be with a newly-vindicated Amaral. As a result, in the Court of Public Opinion (the one that in some ways counts MORE to the McCanns!) the McCanns are likely to go down in history as guilty.

Team McCann will then be condemned to a lifetime of releasing spurious stories about "sightings", "new leads" or "sinister abductors" - whilst continuing the farce of "searching" with whatever cash remains in the fund, and regretting the day they decided to sue Amaral all those years ago.

All of which shows why the Appeal was so important.  And why any influence that the McCanns or the UK authorities still have will now be brought to bear on the SC to overturn the decision.


 

...  and the case will never be solved, the perpetrators will continue to roam free, the case will be all but forgotten, the remnants of public opinion will fade into obscurity and Madeleine McCann will never be awarded the justice she so richly deserves.

Cue - Fat Lady!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

Verdi

Posts : 3547
Reputation : 2064
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by plebgate on 09.05.16 3:56

Tony please be careful .  You do not need to persuade anyone about anything.

Realist thinks s/he is clever but I don't think so.  I can remember reading several posts in the past along same lines.

I think some may be upset because of Rocky's interview and your letter.   do not be baited is all I can say.

Reading Realists last post it is clear to me that your "every word" is being followed present and past.  

Realist is entitled to an opinion.  It is not for you or any poster to try and persuade or change that opinion and the poster knows it.  (IMO) of course.

plebgate

Posts : 5444
Reputation : 1159
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 09.05.16 9:30

@plebgate wrote:
I think some may be upset because of Rocky's interview and your letter.   do not be baited is all I can say.

I haven't listened to Rocky's interview , but I have read Tony's letter(I presume you are referring to  the one relating to the petition.) My opinion of the aforementioned is that its a well thought out and well constructed letter. I probably couldn't have done much better myself.

Reading Realists last post it is clear to me that your "every word" is being followed present and past. 

There are some contributors I follow, others I don't, some for their intellectual content, others for their humour. There's no sinister reason why I should remember any particular contributor's input, I just happen to have a good memory retention.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Joss on 09.05.16 10:41

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:I am not really familiar with PB's theory on what she thinks happened to MBM?...Btw, do you know where the theory of PB's about that could be found, if you could post a link please, would be interested to read it. TIA.
This is actually quite an important question, since this thread is actually discussing Pat Brown's theory.

I think I can summarise it from what excerpts I've seen from her book, and from other places where she has written about her theory.

These are the key elements: [SNIPPED]
Thankyou very much Tony for posting up all that information, much appreciated.
Further to the above, Pat Brown has sent me this e-mail this evening:

++++++++++++++++++

FROM PAT BROWN

Hi Tony,

Just for the sake of accuracy since some on your board are claiming I believe Maddie is in England due to a post I made concerning the concept of following all possible leads until they are found to have validity or not, please share a link to this post:

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/03/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-find.html

My top theory ever since my trip to Portugal as to where Maddie's body may be is Monte do Jose Mestre, a large desolate area just to the west of Praia da Luz where Gerry's phone pinged. I also believe that Gerry is most likely to have moved and buried Maddie's body on his own. 

Due to the fact I have discussed this case dozens and dozens of times over the years, anyone can read my posts for free and get a pretty good idea of my analysis of the case without buying my book.


Thanks, Tony!

Pat

Pat Brown
Investigative Criminal Profiler
www.patbrownprofiling.com
profilerpatbrown@gmail.com
301-633-1151

The Murder of Cleopatra
How to Save Your Daughter's Life
Only the Truth
Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The Profiler: My Life Hunting Serial Killers and Psychopaths
Killing for Sport: Inside the Lives of Serial Killers
Thanks Tony for sharing Pat Brown's email. Her theory sounds interesting and i will read further on the link you posted.

____________________

Joss

Posts : 1899
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Joss on 09.05.16 10:50

@Tony Bennett wrote:


You make some points which require an answer.

However, I am not going to respond because of this point you made which is I'm afraid quite correct:

"For the purpose of this posting, I'm going to focus on your alternative theory. To do so, I am going to have to read between the lines, because for obvious legal reasons, you are not going to divulge your true sentiments on this forum".

I am however grateful for your clear admission, namely:

"I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight".

The only remaining point I will make is to suggest to you, with all due respect etc., that to fit in Madeleine's sudden demise, deciding to hide the body, finding a place to hide the body, returning to the apartment having hidden the body, settling the twins, planning the abduction hoax, getting dressed for dinner etc., all within a framework of two hours, is not merely 'tight' but utterly impossible. And that's without even thinking about the implications of the cadaver dog evidence.

I will upset some people by saying this, but I think it's a point to which Goncalo Amaral should have given a lot more thought before he wrote his book. 

His hypothesis, as he states unequivocally in his book, is that the McCanns and Catriona Baker were all telling God's own truth about that 'high tea' on 3 May 2007.        
 BBM,  Perhaps Goncalo Amaral has an alternative theory nowadays so many years later and thinking further on Madeleine's case? 

____________________

Joss

Posts : 1899
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by MayMuse on 09.05.16 15:06

@Joss wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:


You make some points which require an answer.

However, I am not going to respond because of this point you made which is I'm afraid quite correct:

"For the purpose of this posting, I'm going to focus on your alternative theory. To do so, I am going to have to read between the lines, because for obvious legal reasons, you are not going to divulge your true sentiments on this forum".

I am however grateful for your clear admission, namely:

"I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight".

The only remaining point I will make is to suggest to you, with all due respect etc., that to fit in Madeleine's sudden demise, deciding to hide the body, finding a place to hide the body, returning to the apartment having hidden the body, settling the twins, planning the abduction hoax, getting dressed for dinner etc., all within a framework of two hours, is not merely 'tight' but utterly impossible. And that's without even thinking about the implications of the cadaver dog evidence.

I will upset some people by saying this, but I think it's a point to which Goncalo Amaral should have given a lot more thought before he wrote his book. 

His hypothesis, as he states unequivocally in his book, is that the McCanns and Catriona Baker were all telling God's own truth about that 'high tea' on 3 May 2007.        
 BBM,  Perhaps Goncalo Amaral has an alternative theory nowadays so many years later and thinking further on Madeleine's case? 
Indeed, GA could only go on the evidence provided up to the time he was so rudely "removed" from the case, I tend to have similar thoughts he may now have more "knowledge", not just from what has transpired since, but perhaps there are some things which have not been shared, yet!? IMO

MayMuse

Posts : 1108
Reputation : 828
Join date : 2016-04-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 09.05.16 15:25

@Joss wrote:


       
 BBM,  Perhaps Goncalo Amaral has an alternative theory nowadays so many years later and thinking further on Madeleine's case? 
I would have thought that Goncala's  best shot would have been when he was actually assigned to the case, Joss, when his mind would have been fresh and he had direct access to the evidence and parties involved. With the disclosure of the PJ files and the passing of time, I wouldn't have thought he was in any different position now than to those of us looking in from afar.

Disregarding the media garbage, this case is probably unique in respect to the proletariat being party to more or less, the same evidence that was available to the original investigation. I wouldn't have thought that the British police had much more evidence availed to them than we have, the only difference being,  they chose to ignore it.

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Verdi on 09.05.16 15:39

@Joss wrote:  Perhaps Goncalo Amaral has an alternative theory nowadays so many years later and thinking further on Madeleine's case?


In fairness to Dr. Amaral, he was stymied from the start wasn't he?  Extraordinary case by any standards, a three year old child disappearing from a tourist complex in sleepy off-season PdL after only 5 days stay - foreign voices ringing in his colleagues ears;  chaos everywhere;  shouts of forced entry, paedophile; tramping around the crime scene;  at the same time the mass crowd ignoring essential advice given by the GNR/PJ.

No sooner had the GNR/PJ caught there breath and PdL was invaded by ambassadors... lawyers... UK police...  representatives of the UK's CEOP...  UK family liaison representatives... and to top it all - a dodgy eyed local resident arrives on the scene to act as translator.

Really I ask - what chance did they ever have of conducting an fruitful investigation.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

Verdi

Posts : 3547
Reputation : 2064
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by pennylane on 09.05.16 15:46

Goncalo Amaral recently stated he would be translating the Truth of The Lie into English, as there were misinterpretations out there on the internet.  A tiny error in translation can alter the context of a sentence, and perhaps we will learn significant details from GA's own translation.  It will be interesting to read and put alongside his soon to be published timeline book!

pennylane

Posts : 2529
Reputation : 1189
Join date : 2009-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Columbo on 09.05.16 16:53


I am however grateful for your clear admission, namely:

"I have to admit that the timeline between 6 pm and 8 pm is tight".

The only remaining point I will make is to suggest to you, with all due respect etc., that to fit in Madeleine's sudden demise, deciding to hide the body, finding a place to hide the body, returning to the apartment having hidden the body, settling the twins, planning the abduction hoax, getting dressed for dinner etc., all within a framework of two hours, is not merely 'tight' but utterly impossible. And that's without even thinking about the implications of the cadaver dog evidence.
     

Let's also remember that somewhere near the start of this timeline is an alleged visit to Apt 5A by DP, which took either 30 seconds or 30 minutes and KM may or may not have had a bath around that time too. This visit either happened at all or it didn't. Either it took 30 seconds and DP didn't enter, or DP did enter, spent half-an-hour and saw MBM and the twins. Both accounts cannot be right. One or both must be wrong - wrong well beyond any normal inconsistencies found in witness statements.

Where both parties do agree is that there was a visit. If it didn't happen at all, there must be a reason for its subsequent creation.

Columbo

Posts : 41
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2016-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by whodunit on 09.05.16 17:12

@Columbo---"Where both parties do agree is that there was a visit. If it didn't happen at all, there must be a reason for its subsequent creation."

Somebody had to 'see' MBM on the night besides the McCanns.

whodunit

Posts : 467
Reputation : 442
Join date : 2015-02-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by MayMuse on 09.05.16 17:26

The "visit" we have to take DP & KM word; although it was not in KM's original statement? ( unable to remember if it was in DP's) 
Now why would that be? 

IMO, there was no visit.

MayMuse

Posts : 1108
Reputation : 828
Join date : 2016-04-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Realist on 09.05.16 17:30

@whodunit wrote:

Somebody had to 'see' MBM on the night besides the McCanns.

But they already had an independent witness in the form of Cat Baker an hour previously. Whether one is of the opinion that she is an honest or dishonest witness is immaterial. Why would the McCanns require further confirmation she was alive at around that time.?

Realist

Posts : 421
Reputation : 179
Join date : 2014-11-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by MayMuse on 09.05.16 17:36

@Realist wrote:
@whodunit wrote:

Somebody had to 'see' MBM on the night besides the McCanns.

But they already had an independent witness in the form of Cat Baker an hour previously. Whether one is of the opinion that she is an honest or dishonest witness is immaterial. Why would the McCanns require further confirmation she was alive at around that time.?
I wasn't aware that CB visited the apartment that evening? Or do you mean at "high tea"? 
Why would they require any "confirmation" at all? 
To prove & provide an "independent" witness that Madeleine was fit & well on the 3rd 
IMHO

MayMuse

Posts : 1108
Reputation : 828
Join date : 2016-04-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: If the Scotland Yard Review is Legitimate, Then the McCanns are Likely Innocent

Post by Columbo on 09.05.16 17:40

@Realist wrote:
@whodunit wrote:

Somebody had to 'see' MBM on the night besides the McCanns.

But they already had an independent witness in the form of Cat Baker an hour previously. Whether one is of the opinion that she is an honest or dishonest witness is immaterial. Why would the McCanns require further confirmation she was alive at around that time.?

And then we have MO who checked the room during the evening, only he didn't actually "check" anything... let alone see MBM.

Can someone please remind me if anyone else apart from MO claimed - in a written statement - to have even been to Apt 5A during the alleged "regular checks" on 3 May? (Aside from KM and GM)

Columbo

Posts : 41
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2016-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum