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*** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.16 7:09


Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - I, well, that's what I'm indicating, is that first of all we had to extinguish the possibilities that existed in terms of inquiry, I think some of those have been stopped and there is a line of inquiry I think is, well, everybody agrees, is worthwhile pursuing.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, really at the moment it will be the conclusion of this line of inquiry, unless something else comes up.

I am still optimistic.

Read carefully between Sir BHH lines.  
He isn't saying one line of inquiry remains.  
Actually he's saying they have been investigating only one line of inquiry all along (one which everyone agrees is the only one worthwhile pursuing), and will come to a resolve on this one line of inquiry soon.
  
Which one though - abduction or homicide?
Going by the digging, I know which one I believe it is.

He explained that at commencement logistics of manpower commensurates with volume of work - tonnes of documentations - translations had to be done, shifted through, looked at what the PJ had done, possibilities of inquiry looked at, some eliminated and then what's left is one line of inquiry everyone agrees is worthwhile pursuing which is coming to an end soon.

 


Nick Ferrari - So, you'd spend more money, again? Another 95,000 pound?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, if somebody comes to me, if somebody comes forward and gives good evidence we'll follow it.

I interpret it to mean, they won't deviate from the one line of inquiry (taken from the outset) they are working on, unless something new contrary to that comes up.


Nick Ferrari -  How come this one attracts so much attention and indeed funding?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - this was a decision of the government, that in this case they wanted to fund the Metropolitan Police to make this inquiry. So, we went, the Home Office, the government asked the Met to get involved....
Newspapers have got involved, private investigators got involved..

Implying this case is unique - excess publicity and pte investigator involvement - more than meet the eyes to this case in other words.



Nick Ferrari - So, you don't see any standing down in the near future of Operation Grange?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, I thought it was clear(?), which is first of all, the line of inquiry that is being pursued, that obviously is important, it's important in the coming months that is resolved and I think it will be, if something new comes forward of course we'll investigate it, but that line of inquiry probably is, at the moment, is the conclusion of this inquiry.

Re-emphasing the importance they resolve the important line of inquiry (only one they concentrate on from outset) within months, expressing his belief it will be. Meaning tying up ends. 

95K earmarked in a determination to resolve a line of inquiry that is going nowhere?
I shouldn't think so. 

Met Police's support of Amaral's fund is good indication where their line of inquiry lies.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 7:18

@aiyoyo wrote:
95K earmarked in a determination to resolve a line of inquiry that is going nowhere?
I shouldn't think so. 
£12 million chasing burglars?

95K is lunch money.


Met Police's support of Amaral's fund is good indication where their line of inquiry lies.
Anonymous members of the Met.

I don't share your optimism.

Bog standard policing should have been initiated 4 years ago and much less than £12 million would have been spent.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by lemony snicket on 27.04.16 7:26

Could it be that the MET/PJ/Amaral are just trying to force them into a corner so they confess?

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.16 7:30

@bluebag - in response to your post

The £12M figure spent has got to do with the initial manpower wages for 38 officers, preliminary costs for resources, translations, travel costs etc.

All the drifters, odd balls and what not had to be followed up - interviewed and eliminated - to make a water tight case. Not necessarily indication they were chasing burglars.  It may look that way.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.16 7:45

@lemony snicket wrote:Could it be that the MET/PJ/Amaral are just trying to force them into a corner so they confess?

Hell will freeze over first. They will never confess. 
They won't admit to it if/when arrested.

Going against the flow here and won't be popular.
Personally, I won't lump Amaral with active Police Forces on the investigation. 
MET's narratives in the public thus far do not look as if cornering them into confession. Au contraire, MET announced they are not "persons of interest". 
Amaral's narratives Kate & Gerry have only disdain for, that much is clear.

IMO Dr Amaral should refrain from commenting publicly on current investigation making it out he knows the line of inquiry to be in wrong direction.  Unless he knows with 100% certainty, else this will boomerang on him later.

General public / laymen are not at same risk as him of being judged/criticised no matter what be their view one way or the other on the investigation.  
Doing so, Amaral is putting himself out there...

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.16 8:28

In my view, the fact that team Mccann is still spinning in the press saying they are told not to comment on the one line on inquiry ....appear to me they fear outcome of Grange inquiry.  Hence the spin.....pre-empting/defensive/tactic, keeping their side of the story in the media as far as possible, continuing to influence public into a false perception......that kind of things.

Otherwise why the need to tell people something banal? 
Why not just stay silence? Why tell people they can't comment?  Do people need to know that? 
They are not confident.  
They are reacting out of fear.  
Fear makes them react unwisely, say banal things in the press.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by plebgate on 27.04.16 8:44

IMO they will not comment on anything until SC ruling if indeed they allow an appeal.

If I were in their shoes I would be very worried about Rocky A. being able to speak out now that the ruling has gone in his favour.   I believe the tv interview in Pt. at the weekend shows that he means business and probably wont be the last interview he will give.

He has said that there was no conclusion from the "3 shadowy figures going into the church" info. which is in the police files.   It could be that he will be pushing for the Pt. police to investigate until there is a conclusion.  Who knows, but for sure, he will not give up on Maddie and what happened to her (IMO).

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.04.16 9:35

@xklamation wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:

If the PT investigation continues, will witnesses and suspects have to be extradited? 

There is no Portuguese investigation. They are fed up with the whole British circus.

Exactly.

The process reopened in Portugal forced by the investigation of the Met. Mind you, not because "new credible information" had arrived to the PGR but because the MET asked for several men, 11 or more, innocent and totally unrelated to the case to be questioned and for that they had to become arguidos - suspects. Some of these men's names and faces appeared in the world media .

The Oporto PJ team did an unprecedented review - of an investigation carried out by another PJ team - that "discovered" a dead man, again an innocent man - a farcical if not racist attempt to blame a patsy. Any other findings? Zilch. This review was nothing more than an expedient to "show to the world" or for "the English to see" that the Portuguese PJ were actively doing something whilst their English counterparts had the front pages of the world media, due to tacit agreements with the UK media ex. photojournalists knowing precisely where and when Redwood would arrive in the Algarve. 

In an unrelated matter, does anyone want to venture and guess why did the MET remove all references from their site and facebook page of that sordid press statement that had in it's Portuguese version the word "raped"? The press statement that had a story of a man or men who sexually assaulted only white, only English, only little girls in the Algarve, claims that no one, not even the locals had ever heard about.
Thank you @ xclamation for making the position crystal clear - any Portuguese Police so-called re-investigation was only ever nominal - in name only, and never in actuality. It was a façade, a charade, just like the whole Operation Grange performance.

I was going to challenge any member of the forum who ever thought there was a genuine Portuguese re-investigation to produce any evidence they can find that there ever was such a re-investigation, but - thanks - you have saved me the trouble.

So what about all those public statements from DCI Redwood about how well the British and Portuguese Police were now working together to solve this 'complete mystery'?

Lies, lies, lies...and more iies

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by lemony snicket on 27.04.16 9:44

So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 9:47

@lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by pennylane on 27.04.16 10:08

@plebgate wrote:IMO they will not comment on anything until SC ruling if indeed they allow an appeal.

If I were in their shoes I would be very worried about Rocky A. being able to speak out now that the ruling has gone in his favour.   I believe the tv interview in Pt. at the weekend shows that he means business and probably wont be the last interview he will give.

He has said that there was no conclusion from the "3 shadowy figures going into the church" info. which is in the police files.   It could be that he will be pushing for the Pt. police to investigate until there is a conclusion.  Who knows, but for sure, he will not give up on Maddie and what happened to her (IMO).

They ARE very worried about Rocky A!
He's taking it all back to ground zero, which puts Kate and Gerry McCann firmly back in the frame!  This is precisely what TM/The Home Office/Op Grange have spent countless hours and enormous funds attempting to move a million miles away from (imo).  

They also know Rocky A will not shy away from the Gaspar statements. Heck DCI Redwood left out DP's name completely, whilst naming every other tapasnik in his Crimewatch farce, a glaring omission I would say.

The poor beleaguered Met are still peeling back that old onion full of dead paedo's and child abducting burglars, whilst Goncalo Amaral is showing them all up for what they truly are.



Go, go Rocky Amaral!  clapping


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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by kaz on 27.04.16 11:00

Why do people think that there is any possibility of the McCanns being investigated properly this side of the water? OG told us all we needed to know. The 'Revelation' moment being the most farcical farce ever! Surely it will quietly be dropped by the wayside and left to the Portuguese  to take up the reins once again.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Roidininki on 27.04.16 11:18

@BlueBag wrote:
@lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 11:32

@Roidininki wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?
Politicians, the rich and powerful don't win all the time.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by pennylane on 27.04.16 11:41

@BlueBag wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?
Politicians, the rich and powerful don't win all the time.

This is true BB, especially since the Internet era which has been a real game changer!

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.04.16 12:16

@kaz wrote: The 'Revelation Moment' being the most farcical farce ever!
Hard to argue with that. thumbsup

And yet probably 99% of the 6.7 million who watched that BBC Crimewatch McCann Special farce probably believe that DCI Andy Redwood was being totally sincere and telling us the truth about Crecheman

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Cmaryholmes on 27.04.16 12:49

Yes, I did. I believed it all, because I knew nothing about it. I still believed that there was a real search for an abducted child. I still believed that the police were honourable, and that 2 nice doctors must have been exemplary parents. How gullible I was.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Bishop Brennan on 28.04.16 2:31

@kaz wrote:Why do people think that there is any possibility of the McCanns being investigated properly this side of the water? OG told us all we needed to know. The 'Revelation' moment being the most farcical farce ever! Surely it will quietly be dropped by the wayside and left to the Portuguese  to take up the reins once again.

As you say, there never was any possibility of the McCanns being investigated by SY.  Any doubt on that front was removed by the blatant whitewashing that took place on Crimewatch.  Nothing has changed since then.

And unfortunately, according to Amaral just the other night on TV, there is no likelihood of the PJ taking over the case or moving it any further forward:

"...  I can't see the Judiciary Police resuming the investigation when Scotland Yard ends theirs. In the end, the process was re-opened almost only and by the Scotland Yard, and when they leave the process will be archived just like before. "

And that, sadly, will be that.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by suzyjohnson on 28.04.16 11:38

Whatever your views on why, and how, Redwood dismissed Tannerman as a suspect on Crimewatch, he has drawn attention to the man seen by the Smiths at around 10 pm as being the most likely person of interest to the enquiry. He didn't need to do that, but he did.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Bishop Brennan on 28.04.16 13:28

@suzyjohnson wrote:Whatever your views on why, and how, Redwood dismissed Tannerman as a suspect on Crimewatch, he has drawn attention to the man seen by the Smiths at around 10 pm as being the most likely person of interest to the enquiry. He didn't need to do that, but he did.

With the benefit of hindsight and the imminent closure, we can see that there were in fact 2 reasons for dismissing Tannerman.

1. It created a much bigger time-window for the abduction to take place. As many on here had shown, the timeline as provided by the T9 meant that there was only a window of about 2 or 3 minutes for Tannerman to have taken Maddie. AND he had to have been in the flat with Gerry, just before taking her. An unsustainable story.

2. Smithman taking Maddie later in the evening tied in with the phone / SMS records that Redwood had already looked at. These records were used to link 3 entirely unconnected people (the driver, the drug addict and the boy) and create SY's main arguidos. The phone records did not tie in with a Tannerman abduction, but could be made to fit, IF and ONLY IF the abduction took place later (i.e. Smithman).

So in many ways he did have to do it. And that's why he broadcast it as his big "revelation moment".

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Portia on 28.04.16 13:31

I am so looking forward to any or every one of the 39+ crack SY detectives publishing his/her story of what went on during the start of OG

Of course they can do so, waving dr Amarals vindicating decision in the face of everyone trying to stop them doing so

If they have the guts

Why wouldn't they?

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Portia on 28.04.16 13:34

@aiyoyo wrote:

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - I, well, that's what I'm indicating, is that first of all we had to extinguish the possibilities that existed in terms of inquiry, I think some of those have been stopped and there is a line of inquiry I think is, well, everybody agrees, is worthwhile pursuing.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, really at the moment it will be the conclusion of this line of inquiry, unless something else comes up.

I am still optimistic.

Read carefully between Sir BHH lines.  
He isn't saying one line of inquiry remains.  
Actually he's saying they have been investigating only one line of inquiry all along (one which everyone agrees is the only one worthwhile pursuing), and will come to a resolve on this one line of inquiry soon.
  
Which one though - abduction or homicide?
Going by the digging, I know which one I believe it is.

He explained that at commencement logistics of manpower commensurates with volume of work - tonnes of documentations - translations had to be done, shifted through, looked at what the PJ had done, possibilities of inquiry looked at, some eliminated and then what's left is one line of inquiry everyone agrees is worthwhile pursuing which is coming to an end soon.

 


Nick Ferrari - So, you'd spend more money, again? Another 95,000 pound?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, if somebody comes to me, if somebody comes forward and gives good evidence we'll follow it.

I interpret it to mean, they won't deviate from the one line of inquiry (taken from the outset) they are working on, unless something new contrary to that comes up.


Nick Ferrari -  How come this one attracts so much attention and indeed funding?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - this was a decision of the government, that in this case they wanted to fund the Metropolitan Police to make this inquiry. So, we went, the Home Office, the government asked the Met to get involved....
Newspapers have got involved, private investigators got involved..

Implying this case is unique - excess publicity and pte investigator involvement - more than meet the eyes to this case in other words.



Nick Ferrari - So, you don't see any standing down in the near future of Operation Grange?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, I thought it was clear(?), which is first of all, the line of inquiry that is being pursued, that obviously is important, it's important in the coming months that is resolved and I think it will be, if something new comes forward of course we'll investigate it, but that line of inquiry probably is, at the moment, is the conclusion of this inquiry.

Re-emphasing the importance they resolve the important line of inquiry (only one they concentrate on from outset) within months, expressing his belief it will be. Meaning tying up ends. 

95K earmarked in a determination to resolve a line of inquiry that is going nowhere?
I shouldn't think so. 

Met Police's support of Amaral's fund is good indication where their line of inquiry lies.

Isn't BHH saying, in essence, that if the Mecs fork out 95.000 he can continue the search?

Well, as they still sit on around 795K, they will only be happy to oblige!

Have they yet?

No?

Why on earth not?

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by MayMuse on 28.04.16 13:35

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Whatever your views on why, and how, Redwood dismissed Tannerman as a suspect on Crimewatch, he has drawn attention to the man seen by the Smiths at around 10 pm as being the most likely person of interest to the enquiry. He didn't need to do that, but he did.

With the benefit of hindsight and the imminent closure, we can see that there were in fact 2 reasons for dismissing Tannerman.

1.  It created a much bigger time-window for the abduction to take place.  As many on here had shown, the timeline as provided by the T9 meant that there was only a window of about 2 or 3 minutes for Tannerman to have taken Maddie.  AND he had to have been in the flat with Gerry, just before taking her. An unsustainable story.

2. Smithman taking Maddie later in the evening tied in with the phone / SMS records that Redwood had already looked at.  These records were used to link 3 entirely unconnected people (the driver, the drug addict and the boy) and create SY's main arguidos. The phone records did not tie in with a Tannerman abduction, but could be made to fit, IF and ONLY IF the abduction took place later (i.e. Smithman).

So in many ways he did have to do it.  And that's why he broadcast it as his big "revelation moment".    
This is plausible, thank you for the analysis. I wonder which one of these 'suspects' look like the "Smithman" e-fit?

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by Bishop Brennan on 28.04.16 13:44

@MayMuse wrote:
This is plausible, thank you for the analysis. I wonder which one of these 'suspects' look like the "Smithman" e-fit?

It won't matter. There were 2 entirely different "Smithman" e-fits, and all suspects will have aged 10 years since the 'sighting' anyway. The e-fits are old news now - their purpose was to illustrate Redwood's "revelation moment" and shift the timeline. The fact that one of them looked like Gerry was a hilarious oversight by the bumbling Redwood - one which he's never lived down.

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Re: *** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

Post by MayMuse on 28.04.16 13:51

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:
This is plausible, thank you for the analysis. I wonder which one of these 'suspects' look like the "Smithman" e-fit?

It won't matter.  There were 2 entirely different "Smithman" e-fits, and all suspects will have aged 10 years since the 'sighting' anyway.  The e-fits are old news now - their purpose was to illustrate Redwood's "revelation moment" and shift the timeline.   The fact that one of them looked like Gerry was a hilarious oversight by the bumbling Redwood - one which he's never lived down.  
And still does look like him even nearly 10 years later IMO. 
It does matter, these e-fits (correct me if wrong) were the ones which the McCanns 'sat' on for a number of years!? Why? 
So,reading between all the "lines" over the years... Doesn't this smack of pre-organised & time spent to 'adjust' the information to fit the 'remit'!? Is it 'appearances' only, just like the McCann's?

MayMuse

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