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"Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by plebgate on 17.05.16 3:14

Not sure what point you are trying to make Realist.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by whodunit on 17.05.16 3:49

The point is obfuscation and distraction.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 17.05.16 12:14

@bristow wrote:I haven't posted for ages but still think long and hard about this case and in recent months I have found myself more and more drawn to the possibility that Madeleine's body was hidden in another deceased's coffin.

A coffin is usually sealed once family and friends have finished paying their respects to their loved one in an open coffin but in the case of a person who has no family or friends the coffin is sealed earlier and either kept at the funeral parlour or placed in the church overnight in preparation for a service or a cremation the following morning.
As this woman had no family or friends, and the chances of it being opened practically zero, her coffin could be deemed very suitable for hiding a small child.

The only problem being that a third party would reasonably have to be involved who would have alerted the McCann's to the situation - that's where I am stumped
.

I am with you there.
Too many outside third parties involved, if we were to take in the 3 shadowy figures as well, having to be let into the secret. Nuh...not plausible.

The shadowy figures lead should be followed up ....but personally I don't think the nocturnal activity has anything to do with alleged thesis.

Given the time lapse (three weeks I think between the two deaths) it is impossible technically and logistically for the shared coffin cremation thesis to have any leg to stand on. Think unforgettable stench and you will get the picture !

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 17.05.16 12:18

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:
As Dr Amaral once said: "The Priests know very well what happened that night."

They can't possibly have been told the truth.
But must have sussed out the Mcs made use of them and hid behind them ruthlessly to hide a big (deadly)secret.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Realist on 17.05.16 12:22

@aiyoyo wrote:



But must have sussed out the Mcs made use of them and hid behind them ruthlessly to hide a big (deadly)secret.
Particularly in the vein that they had no qualms with using the head concho in the form of the Pope. aiyoya.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 17.05.16 12:35

@Realist wrote:

I don't even think he actually states that M15  know what happened, but he does state something along the lines of all being revealed when M15 open their files, which implies that he is of the opinion that M15 do know what happened,

I think so too. It was just his opinion (based on one incident he recounts), and not firm knowledge that MI5 definitely knew. At best he suspects there is a file on Mcs.
There may be some controversial and interesting stuff on MI5 files on Mcs that points to the saintly duo not sweet smelling innocent, but I hardly see why there's any element in the case that justifies them helping to keep the lid on.

On the simple logic, if MI5 (secret service agent ) was helping to keep the lid, there would be no need for this expensive Grange investigation. The case would have been put to bed already instead of this unnecessary mud stirring investigation.
And no need for Mcspins. If Mcs were protected why would there be a need for them to test their protectors so to speak?

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Realist on 17.05.16 12:40

Another reason why I think that there wasn't a concerted effort on the part of the government agencies to cover this episode up, aiyoya, is that had this been the case, the aforementioned would have wanted it dead and buried  long ago, as opposed to allowing the McCanns to consistently bring it to the forefront of public attention.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 17.05.16 12:41

@Realist wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:



But must have sussed out the Mcs made use of them and hid behind them ruthlessly to hide a big (deadly)secret.
Particularly in the vein that they had no qualms with using the head concho in the form of the Pope. aiyoya.

Ya, what was that about ?
A pilgrimage visit to connect to a missing child in the Vatican? Very ODD.
Wishing spiritual connection with one's child in church?
And she is not DEAD! Kidding right?

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by BlueBag on 17.05.16 13:18

So when like... the Pope... or a Priest... or a devout person... asks God... where is Madeleine?

God obviously knows right?

So what's the deal?

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by MayMuse on 17.05.16 20:00

What's the deal? 

God only knows, as the saying goes? 
And he ain't telling! scratchhead

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Richard IV on 17.05.16 22:28

@aiyoyo wrote:
@bristow wrote:I haven't posted for ages but still think long and hard about this case and in recent months I have found myself more and more drawn to the possibility that Madeleine's body was hidden in another deceased's coffin.

A coffin is usually sealed once family and friends have finished paying their respects to their loved one in an open coffin but in the case of a person who has no family or friends the coffin is sealed earlier and either kept at the funeral parlour or placed in the church overnight in preparation for a service or a cremation the following morning.
As this woman had no family or friends, and the chances of it being opened practically zero, her coffin could be deemed very suitable for hiding a small child.

The only problem being that a third party would reasonably have to be involved who would have alerted the McCann's to the situation - that's where I am stumped
.

I am with you there.
Too many outside third parties involved, if we were to take in the 3 shadowy figures as well, having to be let into the secret.  Nuh...not plausible.

The shadowy figures lead should be followed up ....but personally I don't think the nocturnal activity has anything to do with alleged thesis.

Given the time lapse (three weeks I think between the two deaths) it is impossible technically and logistically for the shared coffin cremation thesis to have any leg to stand on.  Think unforgettable stench and you will get the picture !
Maybe not if she had been frozen for three weeks, thawed out, then a car was hired to fetch her. The Canadians had arrived by then and had keys to the church.  `Francesca` was contacted by the female canadian the week after it seems.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 18.05.16 21:03

Francesca encounter with Ma Hubbard is beside the point.
The rest you mentioned...is impossible....because of the before and after complications.  
Ponder more on it and you will see why it is IMPOSSIBLE...
I can't spell it out...as the graphics would be a put off.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aquila on 18.05.16 22:18

I'm not given to theories because none of the theories I've read have anything other than gaping holes in them.

Hiding a body in a coffin seems ridiculous to me - not impossible but nevertheless ridiculous imo.

If someone wanted to dispose of a body (or a blue bag for that matter) the easiest way is to find a soakaway sewage system. Such a system not only supports decomposition it thrives on it. There must be loads of soakaway systems in and around PDL. I had one of these systems myself when I lived in Greece and was advised to throw in any dead rats found in the garden to aid the breakdown process. A nice little hole with a nice metal cover/cap hidden in the garden flora.

Just my opinion.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by MayMuse on 18.05.16 22:40

Like lying cold,and mottled on a large grey stone slab?...Kate McCann from the book "madeleine"

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aquila on 18.05.16 22:47

Quoting Kate McCann's self promoting bewk means little if you consider the theory that it is to deflect from the truth. Of course, some people think it's brain leakage. I don't.

I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying.

Just a thought.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by MayMuse on 18.05.16 22:53

I do think that some parts of the book should be added to her statements and clarified as it does not add up. The description when read actually made my blood run cold. 
Don't know much about soak-a- ways but seems as good a "theory" as any & have read of that before a number of years ago. How big are they usually as I thought they were quite small? Certainly would mingle with any "stench" ... Just another thought...

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Guest on 18.05.16 23:03

@aquila wrote:
I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying
Would they have been checked during the police searches?

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aquila on 18.05.16 23:03

@MayMuse wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:
@aquila wrote:I'm not given to theories because none of the theories I've read have anything other than gaping holes in them.

Hiding a body in a coffin seems ridiculous to me - not impossible but nevertheless ridiculous imo.

If someone wanted to dispose of a body (or a blue bag for that matter) the easiest way is to find a soakaway sewage system. Such a system not only supports decomposition it thrives on it. There must be loads of soakaway systems in and around PDL. I had one of these systems myself when I lived in Greece and was advised to throw in any dead rats found in the garden to aid the breakdown process. A nice little hole with a nice metal cover/cap hidden in the garden flora.

Just my opinion.
Like lying cold,and mottled on a large grey stone slab?...Kate McCann from the book "madeleine"
Quoting Kate McCann's self promoting bewk means little if you consider the theory that it is to deflect from the truth. Of course, some people think it's brain leakage. I don't.

I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying.

Just a thought.
I do think that some parts of the book should be added to her statements and clarified as it does not add up. The description when read actually made my blood run cold. 
Don't know much about soak-a- ways but seems as good a "theory" as any & have read of that before a number of years ago. How big are they usually as I thought they were quite small? Certainly would mingle with any "stench" ... Just another thought...
There's no smell from a soakaway system that has a cap on it. My own system, a domestic system, had an inspection chamber (if I have that term correct) that was big enough to place a child's body in (writing that made me shudder). Add to this that such a system is generally surrounded by the natural scent of flora and there's just no smell.

I'd like to know if Scotland Yard and the PJ have looked at all the properties with soakaway systems in PDL and its environs. The properties such as OC probably have fixed plumbing but villas, golf courses, rural properties etc might not.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aquila on 18.05.16 23:05

Ladyinred wrote:
@aquila wrote:
I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying
Would they have been checked during the police searches?
Sorry Ladyinred, our posts have co-incided.

I'd like to know what has been done to identify soakaway systems in and around PDL.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by MayMuse on 18.05.16 23:09

@aquila wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:
@aquila wrote:I'm not given to theories because none of the theories I've read have anything other than gaping holes in them.

Hiding a body in a coffin seems ridiculous to me - not impossible but nevertheless ridiculous imo.

If someone wanted to dispose of a body (or a blue bag for that matter) the easiest way is to find a soakaway sewage system. Such a system not only supports decomposition it thrives on it. There must be loads of soakaway systems in and around PDL. I had one of these systems myself when I lived in Greece and was advised to throw in any dead rats found in the garden to aid the breakdown process. A nice little hole with a nice metal cover/cap hidden in the garden flora.

Just my opinion.
Like lying cold,and mottled on a large grey stone slab?...Kate McCann from the book "madeleine"
Quoting Kate McCann's self promoting bewk means little if you consider the theory that it is to deflect from the truth. Of course, some people think it's brain leakage. I don't.

I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying.

Just a thought.
I do think that some parts of the book should be added to her statements and clarified as it does not add up. The description when read actually made my blood run cold. 
Don't know much about soak-a- ways but seems as good a "theory" as any & have read of that before a number of years ago. How big are they usually as I thought they were quite small? Certainly would mingle with any "stench" ... Just another thought...
There's no smell from a soakaway system that has a cap on it. My own system, a domestic system, had an inspection chamber (if I have that term correct) that was big enough to place a child's body in (writing that made me shudder). Add to this that such a system is generally surrounded by the natural scent of flora and there's just no smell.

I'd like to know if Scotland Yard and the PJ have looked at all the properties with soakaway systems in PDL and its environs. The properties such as OC probably have fixed plumbing but villas, golf courses, rural properties etc might not.
Thanks for the explanation, thought ...how would one know which properties or dwellings had that type of system? And as Ladyinred said I wonder if they were checked? All the bins weren't so probably not a possibility.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aquila on 18.05.16 23:24

Well for £12million I'd hope that Scotland Yard has probed this possibility. It wouldn't be too difficult for Portuguese police to use local knowledge/intelligence/building data to ascertain such info.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Nina on 18.05.16 23:26

Certainly any properties not directly on the coast will have had these systems and possibly even older properties on the coast will also have them.
It is an extremely efficient method of treating human waste and I am in agreement with aquila there is no smell at all.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by aiyoyo on 19.05.16 6:12

@aquila wrote:Quoting Kate McCann's self promoting bewk means little if you consider the theory that it is to deflect from the truth. Of course, some people think it's brain leakage. I don't.

I'll stick with a soakaway sewage system. It's the easiest and most fail-safe way to dispose of a body/body of evidence - and the beauty of a soakaway system is it goes undisturbed for donkey's years; it's not a septic tank in need of emptying.

Just a thought.

Kate's bewk is exhibit A. Quoting it isn't unpractical.
"lying cold,and mottled on a large grey stone slab" IMO is included to deflect something for sure.
A back fit if you like to some theory already out there. As in laid on a cold slab or cold sheet of metal (frozen), hence the fluid in the car.

There are plenty ways one can imagine where killer would dump body, why this?
Is it wild imagination or vivid memory?
Dumped in water, in wooded forest, burned, buried in shallow grave, or in extremity scenario, mutilated and disposed over a wide remote radius or even dissolved are immediate thoughts of normal people.

No one (apart from Kate apparently) would have imagine of mottled body lain on cold slab.
Leaking brian or back fitting...only she knows. But I won't discount anything as a possibility from lying kate.

Soak-away sewage is indeed safe proof way. If that method was used, no chance the body will be found.




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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by Realist on 19.05.16 17:36

@aiyoyo wrote:


Soak-away sewage is indeed safe proof way.  If that method was used, no chance the body will be found.



I've always thought Madeleine's body was disposed of within a 2 mile radius of their apt. building. One can never discount the fact that Kate McCann would have familiarised herself with the local terrain during the course of her regular jogging ventures.

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Re: "Investigate the cremated body thesis" Gonçalo Amaral calls for analysis and reconstruction.

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 19.05.16 22:13

@MayMuse wrote:Like lying cold,and mottled on a large grey stone slab?...Kate McCann from the book "madeleine"
With her "perfect little genitals torn apart."
That is the product of a very sick mind indeed.

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