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File transfer/copy

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 19.04.16 18:42

new
I am posting on this thread as I do not want to register at this time.  What follows would perhaps be more useful, if at all, on another thread.
 
 
Digital computers file transfer/copy process does not modify the contents of the resulting files: if I send you an image file (or any digital file for that matter) or copy it to another device, the contents of the resulting received/created ‘copy’ will be indistinguishable from those of the ‘original’.
 
Talking of computer files, the term ‘copy’ is somewhat misleading in that it occasionally gives rise to the mistaken notion that the contents of a ’copy’ may differ from those of the ‘original’.  This is not so.
 
Let’s say I write down two digits 01 on a piece of paper and I then text the same two digits to you.
 
Although my piece of paper and text are clearly distinct entities. the information (my ‘file’) of interest to both of us has been ‘transferred/copied’ unaltered from me to you.
 
It is easy to see that in the above example the ‘original/copy’ distinction is incapable of being drawn on the basis of a simple comparison of the contents of said ‘files’.  In other words, it is not possible to say which of the two is a ‘copy’.   The same goes for transferred/copied computer files.
 
You may wish to experiment with cut-and-paste of an image file from your computer to, say, a USB stick and back, repeating the cycle  as many times as you like, to satisfy yourself of the truth of the above.  Alternatively, you and a friend may experiment with sending a file back and forth.  Before you start, do copy the ‘original’ file to a different (‘experimental’) folder on your computer if in doubt.
 
Thanks

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 19.04.16 18:48

Hi Peg, do you want this post transferred to the Last Photo discussion?

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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by pendragon2007 on 19.04.16 20:53

In Peg's post she wrote :-
Digital computers file transfer/copy process does not modify the contents of the resulting files: if I send you an image file (or any digital file for that matter) or copy it to another device, the contents of the resulting received/created ‘copy’ will be indistinguishable from those of the ‘original’........................

I hope you won't mind me adding the following:-

Whilst what Peg writes is quite correct for txt (txt, doc, docx etc) files the same cannot be said for all image files (jpg,png,etc). This is because of the different way the files are constructed. The txt type files are based on what is called ASC11 code. This code assignes letters, numbers and formatting to a specific number and these numbers can be represented digitally by combinations of zeros and ones (binary code). For instance a space in your text is represented by number 32, the number 32 can then be represented digitally in binary as  00100000. When transferred or copied as Peg states "the contents of the resulting received/created ‘copy’ will be indistinguishable from those of the original" The file copied contains all original binary code for the txt including formating code for window size/layout/background colour, font size and colour etc. ASC11 based files are in the main relatively small files. (unless a huge document e.g books).

With image files, including photos, faxes and scanned documents the image is represented by dots per inch and each dot can have attributes for colour and other information needed to construct the image. This time however the ASC11 is not used at all and the whole image is constructed in binary code. Then if you take the original file and make a copy/transfer on your computer/usb etc then the copied file is as per the original. Transfering that file to a website however can cause the original to be changed. Most websites restrict the photo size and or the file size. If your photo is taken on say a 20 megapixel camera the file size can be very large. In this case the website will generally compress the file so that it falls within reasonable handling capabilities of the website. The process of compressing the file will try to reduce the file size while at the same time preserving as much data and thereby quality of photo as possible. However there is always some loss in the compression process which often gives rise to artifacts and grainy picture depending on the amount of compression. In these instances the best possible image is shown related to the degree of compression. This is then a representation of the original but not an exact copy. Someone downloading that copy will get the representation. This is why some photos are very clear but the same photo on different site may appear grainy because of the compression. The problem does not end there however especially with modern extremely high resolution (Megapixel) photos as these may appear different on computers with differing graphics and software quality. Unless you know the quality of the original image you can not know if the file you downloaded is a copy or a compressed  version. This always matters if you are trying establish if an image has been photoshopped. You must only examine a trusted image at its original resolution, as has been demonstrated by canada12 on the "Another look at the Last photo" discussion where use of a Mac with very high resoultion exposed a pattern that others could not see because they downloaded a representation image or used lower specification graphics computer and /or software.

                                           Dont forget :-     THE TRUTH IS STILL OUT THERE   (The X Files).

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 19.04.16 21:48

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Thank you, Get'emGonçalo Today at 6:48 pm, only if you think it’s worth it.
 
I will not be able to post on that thread without registration, will I?
 
Regards

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 19.04.16 22:01

Peg wrote:new 


Thank you, Get'emGonçalo Today at 6:48 pm, only if you think it’s worth it.
 
I will not be able to post on that thread without registration, will I?
 
Regards
No, you won't, sorry...so I'll leave it here for a while so you can chat with other people and then I'll merge it at a later date. thumbsup

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 19.04.16 23:34

new

FAO pendragon2007
 
I would like to comment on your 19.03 8:53pm post and I hope you will not mind my doing so.
 
Your first two sentences – “Whilst what Peg writes is quite correct for txt (txt, doc, docx etc) files the same cannot be said for all image files (jpg,png,etc). This is because of the different way the files are constructed.” -  indicate unambiguously that you have completely missed the point I was making, which was that no information contained in digital (= computer) files is either lost or gained due to transfer (= upload/download) or copying of said files.  “…the…way the files are constracted” is irrelevant therefore, as is the rest of your post.
 
I may, if invited, address the matters of digital photography, file compression etc. in due course.
 
Today has been a wonderful day, hasn’t it?
 
Kind regards

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by canada12 on 20.04.16 3:01

Peg wrote:new

FAO pendragon2007
 
I would like to comment on your 19.03 8:53pm post and I hope you will not mind my doing so.
 
Your first two sentences – “Whilst what Peg writes is quite correct for txt (txt, doc, docx etc) files the same cannot be said for all image files (jpg,png,etc). This is because of the different way the files are constructed.” -  indicate unambiguously that you have completely missed the point I was making, which was that no information contained in digital (= computer) files is either lost or gained due to transfer (= upload/download) or copying of said files.  “…the…way the files are constracted” is irrelevant therefore, as is the rest of your post.
 
I may, if invited, address the matters of digital photography, file compression etc. in due course.
 
Today has been a wonderful day, hasn’t it?
 
Kind regards


Hello Peg. I agree with you. To make it more clear:

If you OPEN a jpg that someone has sent you, and then go File-Save As, and save that file to your computer, then you may, in fact, lose some of the resolution, as each time you SAVE AS, you put the jpg through another generation.

However, if someone gives you a jpg on a memory stick, and you TRANSFER that jpg to your computer WITHOUT OPENING IT, then you have lost no resolution whatsoever, as you have not put the jpg through another generation. It is exactly the same file as the one your friend gave you.

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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by pendragon2007 on 20.04.16 6:47

Hi Peg, please accept unreserved apologies, I totally missed the point and fully agree with all you wrote. I must have been suffering mind blank after all the excitement of hearing yesterdays fantastic news regarding Goncalo Amaral's success in court.

I would be happy for moderator to delete my previous post.

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 20.04.16 11:43

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FAO canada12
 
With deference.
 
I would like to disabuse you of your “another generation” assumption which seems to be crucial to your misunderstanding of digital file transfer/copy operation.
 
Before I start, would you be able to investigate this, with Google’s help perhaps, to satisfy yourself that you are sufficiently prepared for a meaningful discussion?
 
To give you a clue as to what, in my view, one would be well advised to familiarise oneself within in the circumstances, I would suggest the following:
 
File copy.
File transfer.
File extensions.
‘Save as’ option.
‘Open file’ option.
‘Close file’ option.
 
I would also like to question your use of “may” in the first sentence of your 20.04 6:47 am post, for it seems to have introduced uncertainty where there is none.
 
You may safely assume that I am mor or less familiar with all the posts on the ‘Another look at the Last photo’ thread (it was the apparent absence of understanding therein of some matters digital, photography in particular, that made me think that I could help to clarify a few important basic points).
 
I very much appreciate your intentions and efforts and I sincerely hope you will appreciate mine.
 
Bless the Little One!  Bless Dr Amaral!  Bless the Portuguese Appellate Court!
(Close to tears, I can not contain my joy.)
 
Kind regards

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 20.04.16 12:14

new

I am unable to edit my previous post as advised in FAQ.
 
Is it because I’m not registered?
 
How would one 'nest' previous comments within one’s post for ease of reference (not in FAQ?)?
 
Many thanks

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by pendragon2007 on 20.04.16 12:37

Hi Peg, I'm new to forums myself so please accept apologies if I get any of this wrong. No doubt if that happens someone will soon tell us. As I understand it, one needs to be registered and signed-in in order to edit a post. However I believe that once a new post is made by someone, following the one you wish to edit, then this stops further edit of your post. I believe there may be a time restriction as well, in that after a period of time no editing is possible. I don't know what that time period is, if applicable.  I am unsure of the nesting process but when returning to a post while signed in I noticed a button on top right of post titled "Quote". I have not used it myself but this may be the process for nesting - anyone????  Hope this is useful. Best wishes - and I hope you join up and aid us further in the search for the truth in this sad saga.

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 20.04.16 13:54

FAO pendragon2007
 
Hi there
 
Not at all, you have nothing to apologise for: when errors are made, they are corrected,  sometimes, that’s all.  My contribution to the misunderstanding between us must also be taken into account after all.
 
Thanks for sharing you experience of this forum, it’s most kind and thoughtful of you.
 
Yes, like yourself, I felt yesterday was a day like no other, it will take me time to re-gain my composure.  I had been readying myself for the worst, you know what I mean…
 
You have probably read my previous post FAO canda12 – the ‘digital’ matters to be dealt with will be dealt with no doubt.
 
The reasons for my not joining up are rather complex and personal, nothing terribly serious or untoward mind you.  Perhaps if and when I do join, I might tell you more privately.
 
I have quite a few bits ‘on my plate’ and consequently I am not always available to react to other’s posts immediately, and I’m a slow coach anyway.
 
Kindness, compassion, sincerity, and one’s being honest about the extent of one’s ignorance open many a door.
 
Would you not agree?
 
Best wishes

Peg
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Re: File transfer/copy

Post by pendragon2007 on 20.04.16 14:31

Peg, you wrote :- Kindness, compassion, sincerity, and one’s being honest about the extent of one’s ignorance open many a door.
 
Would you not agree?

Sure would agree to those sentiments. There's far too little of any of those nowadays.  I have resisted joining any forums before because a lack of these characteristics have often outweighed the forum objectives - resulting in members fighting each other. This forum is rather special because Madeleine never has had a voice and if we don't speak out on her behalf - who will??? I have watched this forum for many years and was undecided about signing up. I had some reservations about making silly mistakes, so only joined last week. I believe it is important not to feel pressured into it and I joined eventually of my own volition. 
By the way I have tried the "Quote" button to post this so if it appears "nested" then that's how its done.  Best wishes in whatever you decide to do.

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File transfer/copy

Post by Peg on 27.04.16 15:54

Dear Admin, please allow the OT bits and do with this post what you think is appropriate.  Many thanks.


new  

 

FAO pendragon2007
 
A few observations on your thoughtful Apr 26, 2016 9:50 am post on another thread.
 
2 Who authorised set up of Madeleine fund and why was it set up as a Company when getting donations from the public? (The fund seemed to be a bigger priority to the McCanns than finding Madeleine.)
 
We have been told that the proposed Madeleine fund did not meet the legal requirements to be registered as a charity, that’s why it was Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited that was registered in the middle of May 2007.  I find this story rather unconvincing, particularly because of what has been happening since.

3 Why were KM and GM allowed to be directors of this company and restrict useage to "finding" Madeleine until mortgage needed paying etc? (Conflict of interest if they eventually are PROVED to be involved - but surely applies if they were/are arguidos/suspects.)
 
KM and GM legally could an did become directors of this company.  There is nothing sinister or suspicious in this by itself.  How they, and others, have been carrying on in their capacity as directors of this company is another matter with which we both seem to be familiar.
 
9 Why are MI5 involved in case of "missing" child?  Does it have anything to do with National Security?  If not why did GA say when asked if we will ever find out what happened to Madeleine,  "Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out" (In my words - haven't confirmed actual quote). What the hell has the case of a "missing"  3 year old child got to do with MI5 - was Madeleine one of their operatives?
 
We do not know whether or not MI5 have been involved in this case.  Please see the following link.
 
jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9792-latest-interview-with-dr-amaral-copied-from-joana-morais-with-thanks :
 
“Anchor: Gonçalo Amaral, let me ask a final question for a quick reply. Will we ever find out what really happened that night?

Gonçalo Amaral: ”Yes, we will. When MI5 opens the case files, we will find out. Don’t forget that the British secret services followed the case right from the beginning. On location”.

Anchor: So only in ten, twenty years…?

Gonçalo Amaral: I don’t know if that information will be made available, but if it’s like in the United States, it takes years to have access to that kind of confidential information. I’ll just tell you this. I recall that – this is not conspiracy theory. The searches that we made with Eddie, with Keela, with the British police, with the planning that is being carried out now, with the British forensics experts, and everything else, there was one person that was responsible for those searches, a British citizen.

And at the end of those searches, at the end of that result, he returns to England, and he’s at the airport in Faro, waiting for the plane to return to England, and he receives a phone call. He is accompanied by one of our colleagues. And he then explains to our colleague that there was a member of the MI5 at the airport, waiting for him, to talk with him about the result of the investigation.

 
It does not seem unreasonable to presume that MI5 have been involved in this case therefore.

10 Who authorised the continuing total disregard of large amounts of evidence not favouring McCanns?  e.g DNA or lack of, cadaver dogs, conflicts in statements etc.etc.
 
We do not yet know whether or not any evidence has been disregarded by OG (if OG is what you have in mind).  The information currently available seems to suggest that some (crucial) evidence may have been disregarded , I agree.

11 Who refused to authorise the access of PJ to Madeleines medical records and why? (Something to hide?)
 
Wasn’t Madeleine already a ward of court at the time her medical records were allegedly requested by the Portuguese and, consequently, wasn’t it up to the court to authorise their disclosure?  (When did Madeleine become ward of court?  When was the request made?)  I do not recall coming across a request for access to Madeleine’s medical records but I seem to recall a pertinent FOI request (Tony Bennett’s?).  Someone will correct me, I hope, if I’m wrong.  I remember a request for Madeleine’s dental records and the rogatories of two of the McCann’s GPs.
 
.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2164743/Madeleine-McCann-parents-court-bid-for-information.html : “Madeleine’s status as a ward of court has never been disclosed by her parents, who quietly made a wardship application in the High Court just weeks after she went missing.”
 
See also pages 124-125 of KM’s MADELEINE (Too much for me to quote here, sorry!)
 
14 Why were photos provided not on original media or in original cameras. All photos could easily be subjected (and were subjected) to various types of interference and are therefore useless until PROVED genuine originals. Even if looking for missing Madeleine why would the McCanns not do everything in their power to find her? Why not make all holiday photos available in original cameras on original media - not 5 colour holiday shots and others in unuseable charcoal effect black and white and possibly old photos. (something to hide again?) Why 3 week delay for "Last photo"?
 
Why indeed?  Perhaps, in the understandable confusion of the moment, likely added to by the reported presence of the UK official/s at the scene, it could have been an oversight of the investigators not to have requested that the photographic equipment of interest be surrendered for forensic examination?
 
As far as I know, there is no reason to suppose that the photographic images delivered to the PJ had been other than full-colour and that the PJ did not simply convert the full-colour images to black-and-white for distribution on CDs after the case had been shelved.
 
I do not know that it has been ascertained that All photos, or even just those featuring Madeleine for that matter, …(…were subjected) to various types of interference…
 
I think it would be possible to investigate at least some aspects of interference if we knew what camera/s had been used for taking particular photograph/s.  For instance, it could be established whether or not the original image had been cropped.
 
KM’s alleged camera, Canon Powershot A620, had the following image storage specs (.cnet.com/products/canon-powershot-a620/specs/s) :
 
“Super-fine JPEG 3072 x 2304 : 9 - with 32MB card
Fine JPEG 3072 x 2304 : 15 - with 32MB card
Normal JPEG 3072 x 2304 : 31 - with 32MB card
Super-fine JPEG 2592 x 1944 : 11 - with 32MB card
Fine JPEG 2592 x 1944 : 20 - with 32MB card
Normal JPEG 2592 x 1944 : 40 - with 32MB card
Super-fine JPEG 2048 x 1536 : 17 - with 32MB card
Fine JPEG 2048 x 1536 : 32 - with 32MB card
Normal JPEG 2048 x 1536 : 63 - with 32MB card
Super-fine JPEG 1600 x 1200
Fine JPEG 1600 x 1200
Normal JPEG 1600 x 1200
Super-fine JPEG 640 x 480 : 109 - with 32MB card.
Fine JPEG 640 x 480 : 168 - with 32MB card
Normal JPEG 640 x 480 : 265 - with 32MB card”
 
If the aspect ratio of an image is neither 1.333 :1 nor 1: 1.333 and the image is purported to originate from a Canon Powershot A620, then it is reasonable to infer that the image is a cropped version of the ‘original’. 
 
And so on…
 
We must of course not forget that on or before 8 May 2007 GM provided the PJ with a CD containing various photographic images and three weeks later (he was that fast…) he came up with the ‘last’ photograph (he was so helpful…).
 
17 Why have the SS.(Social Services - Not The Gestapo - I think there's a difference!!!) not taken the Twins under their wing.
 
SS - A major paramilitary organization in Nazi Germany
Gestapo – The State Police of Nazi Germany
 
Where these and other big questions have not been satisfactorily answered then they should now be investigated by a reputable independent agency that can not be influenced by any of the players in this tragedy, or their money and power.
 
I side with the view that the PJ, investigating under Dr Amaral, was such an agency.
This is not to say that someone else could not resume from where Dr Amaral had (been) stopped.
 
Additionally we really could do with someone among "those in the know" whose conscience wins out and causes them to blow the whistle.
 
How true!
 
I live in hope!!!!!
 
And so do I, my friend!
 
Bests
 
PS  “No reply” (as John Lennon once wrote) yet from canada12 to my Apr 20, 2016 11:43 am post,  hence the question of file transfer/copy seems to have been settled as I suggested it would.

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