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Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

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Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by Grandad on 15.04.16 12:08

I am a new member (although I have been an avid reader of this blog for many years.)

I have joined now specifically to share one thought of mine that I think could explain some of the strangest and otherwise inexplicable elements of this sad case.

Of all the many ideas I have seen or heard over the years I haven’t come across the one I am about to suggest – However if it has been suggested and rejected before - I apologise for wasting your time!

I start from the position that I find the ‘abduction’ notion not even remotely credible – so there has to be another explanation for MBMs ‘disappearance.’

I have read many suggestions as to what might have happened to her but they all seem to run into difficulties because some elements of them seem difficult to reconcile in the context of others or the known and indisputable ‘facts,’ or they are themselves as incredible, if not more so, than ‘abduction’. For example, (among many others,) –

1                 MBM not seen after Sunday
2                 Mystery of ‘last’ Photo
3                 Lack of credible number of photos of her on holiday
4                 Tannerman; Smithman.
5                 The results from the ‘unreliable’ dogs
6                 Murat fly’s in from England– seemingly in haste
7                 Perhaps oddest of all and for me one of the most difficult to explain – Why would the other members of the holiday party ALL agree to a pact of Omerta – that is still holding to this day?  I can understand friends closing ranks and protecting each other – for a relatively minor matter – but NOT in the circumstances that I and many others think happened here!

One question not satisfactorily answered yet is – when did she die? And, if we can believe the unreliable dogs’ – she is dead!

My suggestion comes close I think to providing a possible and logical explanation for all these and many other puzzlements.
 
My speculation (and without proof it can’t be more than speculation) is that perhaps something happens early in the holiday that leaves her grievously injured – but NOT immediately dead - and, lets further speculate, that whatever the injury and the cause of it, they are reluctant to call for an ambulance.

So – in these circumstances what are a group of doctors – of various specialisms to do?

Say that, for whatever reason they decide to treat her themselves instead of calling the relevant authorities. 

Perhaps the treatment requires equipment or other medical supplies (blood for example) that they don’t have with them - but they are able to send for it from home by calling someone who will drop everything and fly it out the next day?

Perhaps the treatment was invasive and would have been immediately obvious to anyone else.

Let’s say they worked to save her but in the end fail and she dies. During the (perhaps) days of treatment they would have had to ‘cover’ the fact that she was not visible, perhaps contriving to use one of the other children as a substitute at critical moments. They would have needed to appear as if everything was ‘normal’ – so they would need to be seen in the Tapas bar and playing tennis – and jogging. But throughout all this time the group - i.e. the ‘medical team’ would have been working to save her - plus working to make life appear normal and cleaning up any evidence of an ‘accident’ (or incident). As the days passed they must also have been trying to find a way to get her back home – and that plan would have to have been enacted by the end of the holiday. Perhaps arrangements had been made to achieve that – a recovery team with a boat or private plane? (Wealthy contacts – or even ‘government’ help.) 

But then she died – perhaps in the end unexpectedly.

How then to cover that new situation? Own up to the events of the past days – with all the predictable effects of doing so?

And here in this moment is born the ‘abduction’ story.

Planning for the deception is quickly done by the group using the covers from MBMs book – twice – the first draft of a plan and then a revised/refined second draft. And then the plan, hastily concocted, swings into action.

Perhaps the recovery plan was modified at perhaps very very short notice – the recovery team now had to remove a corpse (they’ve taken her!) instead of what seemed, until that moment, a seriously injured but stable patient. Frantic phone calls would have been made to do so. Or perhaps the recovery team is cancelled and they remove the corpse themselves by hiding it somewhere away from 5a and then later hire a car to drive it away to a final disposal site.

One of the men carry a sleeping child through the streets – with the intention of being seen and Kate acts out the ‘discovery’ of ‘missing’ MBM. The police are called and witness the overly theatrical display of grief/shock /trauma of G&K - a frantic search ensues by the police and many locals – but significantly not by G&K who instead man the phones – talking to family at home - and the UK press to establish the ‘abduction’ story?

What their hasty plan hasn’t allowed for of course is the investigation – the questions – the cross referencing of statements etc. etc. etc. and so inevitably we see contradictions, answers given that don’t fit – and then realising the problem – answers refused.

And once embarked on this they can’t stop – they have to ‘stay with it’ – to carry on deceiving. The other members of the group can’t now ‘tell the truth’ because they themselves have been party to the: treat her themselves, try to get her home by the end of the week and then the concoction/invention of the ‘abduction’ when she dies plan.


In short – accident – disappearance – dies – disposal doesn’t have to happen at the same time!


Nor does the original reason for deception have to have been the eventual ongoing to this day reason!
 
 
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832) 

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by sar on 15.04.16 12:25

@Grandad wrote:I am a new member (although I have been an avid reader of this blog for many years.)

I have joined now specifically to share one thought of mine that I think could explain some of the strangest and otherwise inexplicable elements of this sad case.

Of all the many ideas I have seen or heard over the years I haven’t come across the one I am about to suggest – However if it has been suggested and rejected before - I apologise for wasting your time!

I start from the position that I find the ‘abduction’ notion not even remotely credible – so there has to be another explanation for MBMs ‘disappearance.’

I have read many suggestions as to what might have happened to her but they all seem to run into difficulties because some elements of them seem difficult to reconcile in the context of others or the known and indisputable ‘facts,’ or they are themselves as incredible, if not more so, than ‘abduction’. For example, (among many others,) –

1                 MBM not seen after Sunday
2                 Mystery of ‘last’ Photo
3                 Lack of credible number of photos of her on holiday
4                 Tannerman; Smithman.
5                 The results from the ‘unreliable’ dogs
6                 Murat fly’s in from England– seemingly in haste
7                 Perhaps oddest of all and for me one of the most difficult to explain – Why would the other members of the holiday party ALL agree to a pact of Omerta – that is still holding to this day?  I can understand friends closing ranks and protecting each other – for a relatively minor matter – but NOT in the circumstances that I and many others think happened here!

One question not satisfactorily answered yet is – when did she die? And, if we can believe the unreliable dogs’ – she is dead!

My suggestion comes close I think to providing a possible and logical explanation for all these and many other puzzlements.
 
My speculation (and without proof it can’t be more than speculation) is that perhaps something happens early in the holiday that leaves her grievously injured – but NOT immediately dead - and, lets further speculate, that whatever the injury and the cause of it, they are reluctant to call for an ambulance.

So – in these circumstances what are a group of doctors – of various specialisms to do?

Say that, for whatever reason they decide to treat her themselves instead of calling the relevant authorities. 

Perhaps the treatment requires equipment or other medical supplies (blood for example) that they don’t have with them - but they are able to send for it from home by calling someone who will drop everything and fly it out the next day?

Perhaps the treatment was invasive and would have been immediately obvious to anyone else.

Let’s say they worked to save her but in the end fail and she dies. During the (perhaps) days of treatment they would have had to ‘cover’ the fact that she was not visible, perhaps contriving to use one of the other children as a substitute at critical moments. They would have needed to appear as if everything was ‘normal’ – so they would need to be seen in the Tapas bar and playing tennis – and jogging. But throughout all this time the group - i.e. the ‘medical team’ would have been working to save her - plus working to make life appear normal and cleaning up any evidence of an ‘accident’ (or incident). As the days passed they must also have been trying to find a way to get her back home – and that plan would have to have been enacted by the end of the holiday. Perhaps arrangements had been made to achieve that – a recovery team with a boat or private plane? (Wealthy contacts – or even ‘government’ help.) 

But then she died – perhaps in the end unexpectedly.

How then to cover that new situation? Own up to the events of the past days – with all the predictable effects of doing so?

And here in this moment is born the ‘abduction’ story.

Planning for the deception is quickly done by the group using the covers from MBMs book – twice – the first draft of a plan and then a revised/refined second draft. And then the plan, hastily concocted, swings into action.

Perhaps the recovery plan was modified at perhaps very very short notice – the recovery team now had to remove a corpse (they’ve taken her!) instead of what seemed, until that moment, a seriously injured but stable patient. Frantic phone calls would have been made to do so. Or perhaps the recovery team is cancelled and they remove the corpse themselves by hiding it somewhere away from 5a and then later hire a car to drive it away to a final disposal site.

One of the men carry a sleeping child through the streets – with the intention of being seen and Kate acts out the ‘discovery’ of ‘missing’ MBM. The police are called and witness the overly theatrical display of grief/shock /trauma of G&K - a frantic search ensues by the police and many locals – but significantly not by G&K who instead man the phones – talking to family at home - and the UK press to establish the ‘abduction’ story?

What their hasty plan hasn’t allowed for of course is the investigation – the questions – the cross referencing of statements etc. etc. etc. and so inevitably we see contradictions, answers given that don’t fit – and then realising the problem – answers refused.

And once embarked on this they can’t stop – they have to ‘stay with it’ – to carry on deceiving. The other members of the group can’t now ‘tell the truth’ because they themselves have been party to the: treat her themselves, try to get her home by the end of the week and then the concoction/invention of the ‘abduction’ when she dies plan.


In short – accident – disappearance – dies – disposal doesn’t have to happen at the same time!


Nor does the original reason for deception have to have been the eventual ongoing to this day reason!
 
 
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832) 
thanks Grandad, very brave 1st post. +1  None of this is impossible.  I think this has been "crowd solved" already, but just hasn't been actioned upon by the authorities for reasons that have been discussed before.

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by whatsupdoc on 15.04.16 12:56

Excellent first post, Grandad, and welcome.

We don't know what Madeleine's problem was but I did read a long time ago that Rachael mentioned a tracheostomy. Maybe Madeleine was choking and the group tried performing one.

I also thought that one way of returning Madeleine to the UK would have been to pack her inside the inflatable advertisement on the beach which was driven all the way from Scotland just for a brief stay.

Both the above are possible but I keep thinking of Vera saying that when we find out the truth "our jaw will hit the ground" which I think has to be way out of what we may think now.

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by Roidininki on 15.04.16 15:11

Grandad ,excellent thinking you have there,  and I agree it would come under a list of possibles as good as any other  but   can I ask,  why would they choose to treat Madeleine themselves as you say in such a situation  ? Wouldn't natural instinct be to   get her quickly to a medical place  to be treated? Lets say for instance she had a neck injury ? If the answer is because they had all  left the children totally alone, I agree they would be scared   that their  their lack of parental duty had left room for this "accident " to occur.     
 
 All of these people would have to be supremely good  actors ?

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My Speculation

Post by Grandad on 15.04.16 16:46

I deliberately didn't elaborate on the many possibilities of why they might have treated her themselves.

I hoped that my speculative ‘thought’ might be taken up by others much more immersed in the case than me and used to weave into earlier theory’s – if anyone thought that the idea had merit and could help to explain some of the hitherto unexplained.

I agree that – ‘natural instinct’ – for most – in most circumstances would – but I can think of many scenarios why these people could have been faced with a situation where they couldn't!

It rather depends on what happened to her – and the circumstances of that and also perhaps – what evidence a medical examination of her might have revealed – I think all the following have appeared in the thinking of other on this site before thus –

Perhaps regular sedation – or an unintended ‘double dose’ (they both gave her a dose not realising the other had already done so.)
Perhaps (sedated or not) she fell from (& behind the sofa) cracking her skull; breaking her neck or any other injury or combination of injuries.)
Perhaps Ma & Pa came back late from the evenings fun & games a bit (or a lot) plastered – collapsed asleep without checking the children & she lay bleeding behind the sofa all night.

If they found her the next morning – perhaps barely alive --- what else could they do?

Any of these or many other possibilities (perhaps they didn't come home at all that night – if the swinging suggestions have any truth) – or a combination of more than one could easily explain why they would not – in fact could not - do what most of us would do in different circumstances.
 
As to their acting skills – I don’t see any evidence of ‘good acting’ – if we mean by that - ‘convincing’!

I think they exhibit panic & desperately making it up as they go along - & then silence.

The big Question is why they have been allowed to get away with it so long?!?!?!  

              
 Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832) 

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by Roidininki on 15.04.16 17:08

Grandad, thankyou for your elaboration on specific points.
By acting I meant  by outward appearances to others  while all of this  possible scenario  tending to    Madeleine  unwell ,injured, possibly  dead was going on.

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by MayMuse on 16.04.16 17:44

Grandad, thank you for this post ( I'm new too) and have often considered a similar situation to what you have described.  If this was perhaps the case the said Drs & their tapas friends seem arrogant and confident enough to think that they could 'deal' with any 'situation' they found themselves ( or their children) in! IMO.

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by Verdi on 16.04.16 21:21

@Grandad

You jest - this is a wind-up!  You can't possibly be serious.   Why now?

What in the name of sanity is going on around here..

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My Speculation

Post by Grandad on 16.04.16 22:24

Oops!

What do these splutterings mean?

Jest; wind up; serious; now?

Such silly rudeness.

What in the name of insanity is going on around here?

Is it just intended to be offensive - or are you just lacking?



[size=21]Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832) 
[/size]

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by whodunit on 16.04.16 22:39

In my opinion, the only reason why a group of doctors--who know full well they have legal obligations to report a life threatening injury--- would hide an accidental death is if it happened during the commission of a crime. In my opinion, since there is ample evidence that all of the Tapas group save Diane Webster were lying or grievously and suspiciously 'mistaken' in several particulars, they are all implicated in an illegal group activity during which the child died.

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by MayMuse on 16.04.16 23:02

So if an 'accident' did happen and it was covered up due to an 'illegal activity' of some kind, that becomes a crime in itself, doesn't it?  But if those ' illegal activities' involved people 'higher up' that could account for the 'support' they have had and those reputations requiring ' protection' were worth more than their own daughter? It all stinks!

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by whodunit on 16.04.16 23:19

Pretty much!

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by MayMuse on 16.04.16 23:24

And then there was money to be made!... So from crime to opportunity or opportunity to crime?

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Re: Injury occurring early in the holiday leading to later death

Post by MayMuse on 16.04.16 23:35

Got it, thank you  omgomg

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